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Reply #30 posted 02/21/09 4:19pm

laurarichardso
n

OldFriends4Sale said:

laurarichardson said:


-----
Co-sign. He worked out his feelings in the song and got rid of it. It was not for the public to hear. In addtion, Susan Rogers misses the whole issue of culture. In the African-American world a lot of problems are taken to God not to a shrink. This is good sometimes and sometimes bad but I can totally understand P thinking it a sin to be depressed.


Maybe not, but being right there being his engineer helping him actually create the song then destroy it was probably really difficult for her. We most likely don't understand her position and relation with Prince. She was his engineer from before Purple Rain till Lovesexy. She was privey to things we could only imagine.

Plus being African-American has nothing to do with it. That is a religous issue that whites & blacks share. In the African American community a lot of problem are handled with the fist, with sleep, with food, with God, with alcohol, with weed, with the dance floor, with sex... guess what? Just like everyone else.

Being depressed is not a sin. Even Jesus was depressed in the garden because of what he had to face.

-----
"Plus being African-American has nothing to do with it"

It has a lot to do with it and it is one of the reasons Susan did not understand why P looked at being depressed as being almost sinful.
Keep pretending race and class have noting to do with anything if you want to. I will go and live in the land of reality.
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Reply #31 posted 02/21/09 4:22pm

laurarichardso
n

viewaskew said:

laurarichardson said:


-----
Co-sign. He worked out his feelings in the song and got rid of it. It was not for the public to hear. In addtion, Susan Rogers misses the whole issue of culture. In the African-American world a lot of problems are taken to God not to a shrink. This is good sometimes and sometimes bad but I can totally understand P thinking it a sin to be depressed.


This is the same culture that buys $300 sneakers or big screen televisions before food, medicine & books. There's room for improvement. Especially if what Prince considers is worth the public's hearing is crap like Jughead.

Furthermore, it didn't stop him years later from releasing songs like Papa or Wasted Kisses. It's a shame that this song was lost.

-----
"This is the same culture that buys $300 sneakers or big screen televisions before food, medicine & books."

Your just full of sterotypes. I know African-Americans are not the only culture purchasing big screen T.V.s or expensive shoes. In addition, if one can afford those items and worked hard to do so maybe you should not worry about it and try working to get something for yourself.

Sounds like bitterness and hating. Get a grip.
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Reply #32 posted 02/21/09 5:01pm

xlr8r

avatar

I cant believe people are being critical that he did not release a song that was created through certain pain. Where is it written that one has to release or even keep certain songs that are painful to express? And to have it out in the market to be heard, as a constant reminder of the pain felt. He's Prince, not Joni Mitchell. Talk about selfish.
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Reply #33 posted 02/21/09 7:56pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said:



Maybe not, but being right there being his engineer helping him actually create the song then destroy it was probably really difficult for her. We most likely don't understand her position and relation with Prince. She was his engineer from before Purple Rain till Lovesexy. She was privey to things we could only imagine.

Plus being African-American has nothing to do with it. That is a religous issue that whites & blacks share. In the African American community a lot of problem are handled with the fist, with sleep, with food, with God, with alcohol, with weed, with the dance floor, with sex... guess what? Just like everyone else.

Being depressed is not a sin. Even Jesus was depressed in the garden because of what he had to face.

-----
"Plus being African-American has nothing to do with it"

It has a lot to do with it and it is one of the reasons Susan did not understand why P looked at being depressed as being almost sinful.
Keep pretending race and class have noting to do with anything if you want to. I will go and live in the land of reality.


I wish U would have read my post
It's a religious thing, that is where Prince got that from
Many other christian denominations (JW) included do not believe in
certain things such as degrees of medication, psychiatric help, birth control

With African-Americans most of that stuff is passed through religious ideology even if the person are not Christian themselves.
#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #34 posted 02/21/09 8:00pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

xlr8r said:

I cant believe people are being critical that he did not release a song that was created through certain pain. Where is it written that one has to release or even keep certain songs that are painful to express? And to have it out in the market to be heard, as a constant reminder of the pain felt. He's Prince, not Joni Mitchell. Talk about selfish.


If that's the case he shouldn't have released most of the music on Sign o the Times nor Rock Hard In A Funky Place
That would also remind him of his relationship with Wendy & Lisa and his pain of loosing Susannah...

He sure does admire Joni Mitchell though, he was a big fan of hers and even had her at the listening party for Around the World in a Day...

I think it's just UPTOWN discussion
We're fans
#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #35 posted 02/21/09 8:03pm

NONSENSE

Prince has a thing for twins, eh?
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Reply #36 posted 02/21/09 8:07pm

xlr8r

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

xlr8r said:

I cant believe people are being critical that he did not release a song that was created through certain pain. Where is it written that one has to release or even keep certain songs that are painful to express? And to have it out in the market to be heard, as a constant reminder of the pain felt. He's Prince, not Joni Mitchell. Talk about selfish.


If that's the case he shouldn't have released most of the music on Sign o the Times nor Rock Hard In A Funky Place
That would also remind him of his relationship with Wendy & Lisa and his pain of loosing Susannah...

He sure does admire Joni Mitchell though, he was a big fan of hers and even had her at the listening party for Around the World in a Day...

I think it's just UPTOWN discussion
We're fans


True we're fans I can dig that but there was an undelriyng vibe by some who are being ridiculous in the opinion that he should have released the song for whatever reasons. Yes Im aware that he released several songs that were biographical in nature to personal relationship experiences. I am saying he didn't have to release 'every' personal song or make a Joni Mitrchell Blue of his own. Not saying that it wouldnt have been manna for us to hear but Im not going to down the dude for not doing so.
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Reply #37 posted 02/21/09 10:53pm

jonylawson

IAintTheOne said:

wow I wish y'all could leave it alone this was years ago..


cringe cringe

hey old friends-great post-i enjoyed it-having read and heard about that song for years.
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Reply #38 posted 02/22/09 5:39pm

laurarichardso
n

OldFriends4Sale said:

laurarichardson said:


-----
"Plus being African-American has nothing to do with it"

It has a lot to do with it and it is one of the reasons Susan did not understand why P looked at being depressed as being almost sinful.
Keep pretending race and class have noting to do with anything if you want to. I will go and live in the land of reality.


I wish U would have read my post
It's a religious thing, that is where Prince got that from
Many other christian denominations (JW) included do not believe in
certain things such as degrees of medication, psychiatric help, birth control

With African-Americans most of that stuff is passed through religious ideology even if the person are not Christian themselves.

-----
"It's a religious thing, that is where Prince got that from
Many other christian denominations (JW) included do not believe in "
-----
P was not a JW back then and yes religion plays a role but it is not the only reason black folks do not seek therapy. I am African- American and I do not know any African-American Christian who shun Birth Control for religious reason.
(LOL) Not bothering to think about it at all is the reason usually for the lack of Birth Control.
Makes me wonder if your black because you do not seem to know what you are talking about.
Most African-Americans are not seeking therepy because they view it as being weak. Most feel that we should be handle the things left is throwing at us.

I do not agree with this but I understand where it comes from.
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Reply #39 posted 02/22/09 6:02pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

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moderator

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said:



I wish U would have read my post
It's a religious thing, that is where Prince got that from
Many other christian denominations (JW) included do not believe in
certain things such as degrees of medication, psychiatric help, birth control

With African-Americans most of that stuff is passed through religious ideology even if the person are not Christian themselves.

-----
"It's a religious thing, that is where Prince got that from
Many other christian denominations (JW) included do not believe in "
-----
P was not a JW back then and yes religion plays a role but it is not the only reason black folks do not seek therapy. I am African- American and I do not know any African-American Christian who shun Birth Control for religious reason.
(LOL) Not bothering to think about it at all is the reason usually for the lack of Birth Control.
Makes me wonder if your black because you do not seem to know what you are talking about.
Most African-Americans are not seeking therepy because they view it as being weak. Most feel that we should be handle the things left is throwing at us.

I do not agree with this but I understand where it comes from.


Your right, No he wasn't JW
He was brought up in 7th Day Adv Church by his mom. so that's probably where he got his ideas from. There are millions of 'black' folks from all walks of life. I tend 2 not brush races of people with (we all do this/think this way)

I do know some, many who shun birth control because your not supposed to be having sex until your married.

But like I said, many non Christian black-americans have ideas of things from a Christian standpoint, because alot of knowledge was passed thru familys and the church being a significant part of African-Americans lives, it would automatically translate into 'cultural/social' ideas.

Lenny Kravitz said he isn't Christian but he has "Christian beliefs" same thing that I'm trying to express.

That idea of handling what life throws at you and not going to seek pyschiatric help is also "country/Southern" thing that is shared with southern White(Christians) and Black Americans because a lot of their foundation is Southern.

I'm American
I'm also multiracial

Good conversation though..



[Edited 2/22/09 18:06pm]
[Edited 2/22/09 18:10pm]
#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
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Reply #40 posted 02/22/09 6:09pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

jonylawson said:

IAintTheOne said:

wow I wish y'all could leave it alone this was years ago..


cringe cringe

hey old friends-great post-i enjoyed it-having read and heard about that song for years.


Your welcome
That was an interesting time in his life
shelving of the Dream Factory
opening of the Camille project
Crystal Ball/Sign o the Times

Susan Rogers sure was in an interesting position for a large part of his career in the 80's
#IDEFINEME #ALBUMSSTILLMATTER

A Liar Shall Not Tarry In My Presence

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the m
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #41 posted 02/22/09 10:06pm

FlamingRaindro
p

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said:



Maybe not, but being right there being his engineer helping him actually create the song then destroy it was probably really difficult for her. We most likely don't understand her position and relation with Prince. She was his engineer from before Purple Rain till Lovesexy. She was privey to things we could only imagine.

Plus being African-American has nothing to do with it. That is a religous issue that whites & blacks share. In the African American community a lot of problem are handled with the fist, with sleep, with food, with God, with alcohol, with weed, with the dance floor, with sex... guess what? Just like everyone else.

Being depressed is not a sin. Even Jesus was depressed in the garden because of what he had to face.

-----
"Plus being African-American has nothing to do with it"

It has a lot to do with it and it is one of the reasons Susan did not understand why P looked at being depressed as being almost sinful.
Keep pretending race and class have noting to do with anything if you want to. I will go and live in the land of reality.

wow. get that chip off your shoulder...
ps. did you get a dregree of some sort to speak on behalf of a whole race?
nuts
.
[Edited 2/22/09 22:14pm]
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Reply #42 posted 02/22/09 10:55pm

eugnj420

OldFriends4Sale said:

PurpleLove7 said:

Great thread. You know, I have that book and I've never read it. The title of the book is totally wrong, from my point of view. P hasn't fallen. He's still alive making and producing music.

It is disheartening that that emotional expression was put into something attainable like music and then "destroyed" or erased but that's out man, ain't it. He's been in love and been out of love but our man has grown up. Love is different when you grow up. Or perhaps I should say "mature".


It's actually a good book

Don't let the title get you
I did when it first came out, and then by mistake read a piece without knowing
it was the Rise and Fall of Prince

And it turned out to be really good.
The guy who wrote it is a fan.
Prince did go thru a dark time...which some people actually don't come back from.
Many famous musicians went thru similar times and lost their lives.
But FALL doesn't mean END.
And when I read the end, the book was shedding light on his (possible)RISE.
I think the book went up to the year 1999 Rave Un2 the Joy Fantastic
And for many people artistically Prince was on really shaky ground.


That's true. The Rave fiasco, both artistically and commercially, seemed like the end of a long fall that began with the fued with Warners and the name change. Rave was built up to be a comeback (produced by Prince- by then, even he realized the name change had seriously hurt his career) but fizzled on the charts after one week, thanks in part to a ponderous choice for lead single.
And who didn't feel embarrassed watching him pander on TRL? I get shutters just thinking about it.

But shortly thereafter, some really great, interesting new material started showing up on NPGMC, and then we got TRC, which to my ear sounded both retro and fresh at the same time, followed by the ONA shows and the rise, as it were, was well under way.
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Reply #43 posted 02/23/09 2:33am

Chimo

Wow. To have people talk about a song in retrospect and saying it was P's most emotional work ever. That ain't a knock on how he's holding back. That's more like it musta been so unbelievably amazing. What does a brother hafta do?

Recording over it in the end to disappear. Now that's balls.

Sandcastles are so beautiful when we forget that they won't last.
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Reply #44 posted 02/23/09 9:55am

laurarichardso
n

I have been black all my life I do not know anybody black that will admit to having been in therapy. If you went on the street and did a random poll, you are not going to find too many African Americans who will admit to it. In addition some studies have been done on African-Americans and increasing high rates of suicide and the lack of treatment not because the treatment is not out there and available but because we do not take advantage of it.

There are issues in our community concerning health care and mental health care. I am sure there are issues in other communities but we are not talking about those communities in this thread.

I do not have a chip on my shoulder. If you cannot discuss race and culture issues in a rational manner, please get out of the discussion. Adults are speaking.

-----



FlamingRaindrop said:

laurarichardson said:


-----
"Plus being African-American has nothing to do with it"

It has a lot to do with it and it is one of the reasons Susan did not understand why P looked at being depressed as being almost sinful.
Keep pretending race and class have noting to do with anything if you want to. I will go and live in the land of reality.

wow. get that chip off your shoulder...
ps. did you get a dregree of some sort to speak on behalf of a whole race?
nuts
.
[Edited 2/22/09 22:14pm]

[Edited 2/23/09 13:46pm]
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Reply #45 posted 02/23/09 10:28am

benni

When I worked with abused kids, I would often have them write or draw a picture, putting all of their emotion into it. This was for them to express their feelings freely, knowing they could write or draw anything they wanted to. It was strictly for them, and I would not see it or read it unless they wanted me to. Once they were done, we would have a ceremony in which they destroyed the object in any manner they chose. It was very cathartic for them to be able to open up completely, to pour every emotion they had into it, and then to destroy it. The act of destroying it was also cathartic because they were able to further express their emotions in a physical and symbolic way. For many, it was a turning point in their lives, because once they had opened up honestly in that manner, once they had expressed themselves through words or art, and then the act of destruction, they were later able to begin opening up to other people. So I don't see the destruction of this song as a negative in any way. The writing and recording of the song, the eventual breakdown of the song by adding other elements to it, and the eventual destruction of the song was probably very symbolic and very cathartic for him, and more than likely began the healing process.
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Reply #46 posted 02/23/09 1:01pm

jonylawson

benni said:

When I worked with abused kids, I would often have them write or draw a picture, putting all of their emotion into it. This was for them to express their feelings freely, knowing they could write or draw anything they wanted to. It was strictly for them, and I would not see it or read it unless they wanted me to. Once they were done, we would have a ceremony in which they destroyed the object in any manner they chose. It was very cathartic for them to be able to open up completely, to pour every emotion they had into it, and then to destroy it. The act of destroying it was also cathartic because they were able to further express their emotions in a physical and symbolic way. For many, it was a turning point in their lives, because once they had opened up honestly in that manner, once they had expressed themselves through words or art, and then the act of destruction, they were later able to begin opening up to other people. So I don't see the destruction of this song as a negative in any way. The writing and recording of the song, the eventual breakdown of the song by adding other elements to it, and the eventual destruction of the song was probably very symbolic and very cathartic for him, and more than likely began the healing process.


hmmmmm that my friend is very very much up for debate.....
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Reply #47 posted 02/24/09 5:42pm

FlamingRaindro
p

laurarichardson said:

I have been black all my life I do not know anybody black that will admit to having been in therapy. If you went on the street and did a random poll, you are not going to find too many African Americans who will admit to it. In addition some studies have been done on African-Americans and increasing high rates of suicide and the lack of treatment not because the treatment is not out there and available but because we do not take advantage of it.

There are issues in our community concerning health care and mental health care. I am sure there are issues in other communities but we are not talking about those communities in this thread.

I do not have a chip on my shoulder. If you cannot discuss race and culture issues in a rational manner, please get out of the discussion. Adults are speaking.

-----



FlamingRaindrop said:


wow. get that chip off your shoulder...
ps. did you get a dregree of some sort to speak on behalf of a whole race?
nuts
.
[Edited 2/22/09 22:14pm]

[Edited 2/23/09 13:46pm]

Stop trolling around following me from post to post to attack me you sad individual. Next time you're drinking the purple cool-aid, take a moment between your oversized gulps, breath, and brush that oversized chip off your shoulder. Also stop attacking me with your racist and sad wee orgnotes. The whole world isn't against you. Maybe you should get some THERAPY to deal with your (obviously) numerous issues.
Now be a good wee thing and go take your medication wink
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Reply #48 posted 02/24/09 5:49pm

2freaky4church
1

avatar

He could have rerecorded Wally. Does anybody really know? No.
"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #49 posted 02/25/09 1:04am

Rogue588

avatar

jonylawson said:

great post-i enjoyed it

Despite the attempts to swerve into racial profiling, I enjoyed this thread (and the Wally story) too. I'm going to have to grab a copy of this book.
• Did you first think Prince was gay? •

Wendy: He’s a girl, for sure, but he’s not gay. He looked at me like a gay woman would look at another woman. Lisa: Totally. He’s like a fancy lesbian.
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Reply #50 posted 02/25/09 4:58pm

carlcranshaw

avatar

I see it as a "purging" so to speak that was too personal for him to share. I guess when a BAD breakup comes you either talk to someone about it or maybe ladies write in a diary. This was maybe his way of grieving and letting it go.
‎"The first time I saw the cover of Dirty Mind in the early 80s I thought, 'Is this some drag queen ripping on Freddie Prinze?'" - Some guy on The Gear Page
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Forums > Prince: Music and More > A Song Called Wally: the epitaph of Prince's breakup with Susannah Melvoin