Sdldawn said:

sounds like the start of a good class action lawsuit against Prince and his companies...

http://www.defectivebydes...y07-prince

Excerpt:
"Luckily I only purchased one of MANY DRM-laden album from Prince's now defunct New Power Generation website, Xpectation. It came in the DRM-encumbered Windows Media format, but this was before I was ever aware of the horrors of DRM. Ironically, I EXPECTED the files to work pretty much forever, maybe not forever but at least a few good years. However, I guess the joke was on me as I misplaced the files on an external harddrive a year or so ago and recently located them only to find out there's absolutely nothing I can do with them."...
[/quote]

I argued for years that Prince should release his music through iTunes store instead of his own web site because of these very problems associated with the way he did things. There was

- only worked on windows
- didn't work with iPod, even on windows
- breaking the DRM violates the DMCA
- there were restrictions on how many times you could upgrade your computer and migrate files
- the clear problem that DRM would break if NPGMC went away

Most people argued against me in their blindly drinking the purple kool-aid.

So what's happened. Music that was once available no longer is and many people who bought it can no longer play it. The ones who can still play it had to break the law (the DMCA) by circumventing the DRM.

I even once offered to program a solution for the NPGMC - use AAC files without DRM, but with the customer name embedded in the file so that any files posted on file sharing systems could be tracked back to the person who leaked them. This solution is basically what Apple now does for their iTunes plus tracks that don't have DRM. NPGMC turned my offer down.

Something has gone seriously wrong that all of Prince's Waner Bros catalog is available, from for you all the way to The vault, but his more recent post warners catalog is spotty at best.

After the misleading advertisement of "4 new Prince cd's" even mentioning 4 new album titles but not delivering them, the scam that years was already so big that I didn't even bother to download 'Xpectation'.
[Edited 12/5/08 9:42am]

Graycap23 said:

Two things:

1) I burned several CDs some years back which now inexplicably don't work. I bought relatively high quality CDs for data backup and now I can't access them. Many CD-Rs are simply not lasting these days. Now, I actually did rip my NPGMC files onto CD-R, but I can't find that CD anymore. That's my fault, sure...

But that doesn't change the fact that consumers bought DRM files with the understanding that they would work, and now they don't. Prince didn't say "Heads up everyone, I'm removing all my web sites, and your music won't play after such-and-such a date, so back up your shit!" Fans were left in the cold.

Furthermore, I only ripped a CD when I had enough content to rip to it. I'm not going to rip every 99 cent song to a CD before moving on. It'd make more sense to buy 12-14 songs and then rip those together. If you only had a couple of songs that you hadn't yet backed up, I guess you should just be out of luck then?

2) Many people bought these songs and transferred them right to their MP3 player. That's what I did. They play fine on my Creative Zen, but guess what? I bought a new mp3 player. I can't transfer them back to my computer, or to my zune. They're useless now. People may have bought these mp3s for their MP3 players, not for their CD collection. But when that player is no longer working, they should just be screwed over?

So I'm sorry you have no sympathy for people who were under the impression that they bought the songs so that they had a right to listen to them for their lives, no sympathy for the people who thought they didn't yet have enough music to fill a CD yet, no sympathy for the people who were giving no notice whatsoever about the upcoming worthlessness of their files. Nevertheless, I do have sympathy.

You are right about one thing. It is their problem, because there's no damn way Prince will do a damn thing to give his fans access to their music which they rightfully paid for.

Tremolina said:

snap.. i forgot about that shit.. that was some BS


he is a terrible business man as far as i'm concerned.

savoirfaire said:

I hear what u are saying but digital music is not reliable long term.

Hey, here's one for you. You mentioned I-Tunes. I bought a Prince album from
I-Tunes just 2 weeks ago and transfered it onto a high quality music cd. I made sure the shared files option was closed first and it still sounds like crap. I thought it was my cd's and went through about 5 of them. Wonder whats up with that. Think I will stick to CircuitCity.com. Last time I checked they actually had quite a bit of Prince to order.

I would love to go to a LIVE performance (if I could afford it). I've only been to one and all that did was make me want more. He is my drug of choice I guess. peace & love

japanrocks said:

Some lemmings will attempt to rationalize anything the man does. Prince's live shows generate the buzz they do because he is a talented performer & has a catalog of music that people respect (of course, there's no guarantee he won't play anything but Sly & the Family Stone covers). His anti-youtube stance is hardly the mark of a genius.

savoirfaire said:

its true, cd media is going away. it deteriorates just like those little scrolls that edison recorded music on, reel to reel, 8-track, cassette, and even vinyl recordings... and the formats continue to change, you are RENTING the music... as i pointed out before, music, like everything else is software in this world. and software develops and redevelops with the change of technology.

as far as music expiring, im sure the information was available concerning expiration dates. if a DRM is created, its also a contract.

cheers!
s=v=n s+v~n(sq2) 7.

I am so surprised that no one thinks Prince should be paid royalties like any other artist. It's his music. He has worked his entire career through the jeering of the "haters". The man can not step outside his door without someone making a big deal of it, (most of it gossip}. When you look at where he started, and the transformations he has made along the way, it is amazing he is not been through rehab after rehab as most celebs of his prominence. So the guy has some quirks. He is a person and deserves the respect of any other individual. I, for one, am grateful for the relentless persistance of him making his music the way he wants. IT IS HIS. Books are copyrighted, movies, what about paintings, photos? I just don't get why it's okay to steal his music. P.S. Although I only went to one concert - he did not do one Sly song.If you are all so down on him, why are you here? Love and peace.

7e7e7 said:

Nah... it wasn't available, or at least not readily so. One day the sites shut down, without notice, and that same day, the music stopped working as well.

savoirfaire said:

u got me curious on what type of cd burner program u used that ur cd's don't work anymore. i've never heard of that b4.

crzy4uluv said:

he got paid when people put their money invested in something he was selling, then were promised 2 have a certain service and then without warning, they can't use what they bought and r offered no type of refund or alternative method 2 their purchase. so if ur screwed then y not screw back?

and if i may ask, where and when did u c prince live cause it could xplain y there were no sly covers when u saw him.

If one examines this they will realise Prince was not himself aware of this drm problem but left his website business in the hands of web professionals who he presumed would take care of all this, and they did, for a few years they did a great job. Obviously the drm thing was an oversight for them.
So lay off Prince, people, he's not to blame.
[Edited 12/5/08 12:02pm]

Sdldawn said:

Yeah, but I guess he is laughing at all the money people keep on paying him.

I am glad I stopped giving him my money after that 4 new cd's fiasco.

As turns out it only got worse after that.

Making people pay for your music but not telling them they are only renting it for a while is just wrong.

swdee said:

Pray tell how you examined this and what you found, because there is no way in hell Prince wouldn't have known.

And even if he wouldn't, at least an apology wouldn't be misplaced. Because after all he owns the stuff and made the money.

That's some 'friend' I'm telling ya.

Tremolina said:

well that's kind of ironic since Xpectation was only released as a
new year's "gift" after the many complaints from people that they
never got what was promised to them.

Xpectation was probably the only thing from that year everyone has
been able to download without bother since it was just there all of
a sudden without any hype or false hope.

on another note i still think an online store for new music was a
good idea. but as with everything prince didn't just let it ride,
he had to keep boasting and hyping the thing to death and then he
would turn around and not deliver the goods.

how can any adult expect to do something like that and not have a
bunch of complaints coming in? lol. but what does prince do? he's
stomping his foot and probably rolled on the floor like a mad kid
crying "shut it down, i'm tired of it, they're all being nasty".

P2daP said:

Co-Sign, then again there r places and people who do have the files. I have em.

crzy4uluv said:

The old straw man maneuver, eh? Its not about royalties. People are mad because their files no longer play. If you came home and none of your CDs played in your house anymore or you broke your CD player and none of them would play in any other CD player, you would have a fit, wouldn't you? Well, YOU might not but most people would. Music is not supposed to have an expiration date on it with a limitation of where you can listen to it.
People who support this mentality are seriously disturbed control freaks. In the end, they always lose. I have...a friend...that has Prince's music on mp3s (even Xpectation and the other music club music). They can be listened to whenever and wherever like ALL MUSIC SHOULD BE. All of this trying to scapegoat the web technicians is B.S., too. I REFUSE TO BELIEVE THAT PRINCE DIDN'T KNOW WHAT DRM TECHNOLOGY WAS. He knew EXACTLY what was being done on his behalf, otherwise he would have put the music on mp3s like every other artist does. He was being his typical self and some fans have suffered for it.
If "its his music" then he shouldn't release it to the public for sale. Intellectual property is not as cut-and-dry as that.
There really is no defense for the use of DRM in the case of artists and their music fans. It might be a great way for the CIA to pass sensitive info but for music fans, its a royal screw-over.

japanrocks said:

on August 10 2007, i was stood on the balcony declaring: "Ah yes, another Live Experience ruined by the internet!"

Where's the element of surprise?

(A: it's on the periodic table as a '!' before 'H', but only once all the Helium has escaped and time runs backwards.)

NoiZ! x

i have a feeling somewhere in the tiny print of the terms of service from the website there is language written to protect him from lawsuits on this matter. i could be wrong.

my thing is you need a real good reporter to ask him the right questions on this whole music and technology mess if he/she is so lucky to score an interview. his interviews lately dont really say much and just leave more questions.

Well I like most ppl I backed up most of the stuff I bought from the music club on CD, but everything I have still on my computer works and they r DRM's. So I dont know what I did different but mine still work.

Interesting read.

Bottom line, NPGMC shut down with no fears, coz no one can get in touch with any one to do with the 'fan club'. What happened to the people that paid $25 a month b4 the site shut down? I for one would be mightily p*ss*d off!

And the guy on that site is right, u just don't treat ur fans the way Prince has. Yeah, he gave away free albums, mediocre albums at that, but his crackdown on youtube etc just got ridiculous. If he keeps this up, people may start buying bootlegged live albums etc, imagine the chaos!

IstenSzek said:

i'm confused about this post. if i remember correctly, he DID get a store created. he DID deliver music. what i don't understand is how there seems to be an expectation in the community at large (prince.org) that somehow an artist OWES you product OR ELSE. this "or else" mentality is something i've been at odds with since i started coming to this website.

i couldn't image how irritated i would be if my own fans had decided that they were going to downtalk me OR ELSE get new product that is as GREAT as what was created in the past.

as an artist myself... evidently recreating these issues has given me a better understanding... i disagree a grown man would be rolling around on the ground, but do believe personally since i had similar issues confront me. i most likely would refuse to make anything ANYMORE for a public consumer that decided that art is something you can DEMAND into existence.

since there was an expectation of 4 cds... one must analyse the problem at hand... each song could be considered one cd. your definition of what a cd IS may be skewed.

cheers!
s=v=n s+v~n(sq2) 7.

Tremolina said:

Quite simply he, like may other artists using this system, would have been told that when people purchase the songs they are activated so they can be played and not illegally downloaded. Which is fair enough.
What makes you think he would have known that if the providing website wasn't there people wouldn't be able to play them anymore?
I only found out about this myself recently but had the sense to backup and burn to cd all my music back then anyway.

"If that was ure father tell me would you dog him then, would you dog him? POSITIVITY!"

Sdldawn said:

7e7e7 said:

if i showed you a picture of my rare prince collectibles assessed at a value over $300,000
would you buy it for a $1,000 easy?
and when you got to your mail box and opened the package to only find the picture
would you not be VERY upset with me?
hey, all i was selling was the picture not the actual collection
maybe your expectations were a bit skewed?
not my fault
right?????

oh my goodness



.
[Edited 12/6/08 2:14am]