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Reply #90 posted 05/27/08 7:22am

JustErin

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JediMaster said:

Back to the topic (y'know, the actual SONG), I DO think that the song's primary function was to shock. That doesn't immediately invalidate it as an artful tune, though. The song is presented, lyrically, in a format that wouldn't be out of place in the Penthouse Forum. The rather lewd descriptions of his sister not wearing underwear because of its way of "stopping the juice" has more in common with pornography than it does any great social statement. At this point in his career, Prince was trying to make a name for himself. In 1980, no one DREAMED of singing about being seduced by their sibling. Keep in mind, the track is preceded by "Head", which is not only about oral sex, but also about seducing a virgin on her wedding day. Prince was pushing the boundaries of what was acceptable for even rock stars to sing about and do. In "Sister", the straightforward approach of the song is a pornographic tale of a young man being introduced to his sexuality by an older woman. The lyrics are shocking enough for the time period, even if all references to the sibling nature of the older woman are removed. Prince takes this a step further by making his seducer into his sister. The primary intention is to stun the listener.

Dirty Mind has often been described as Prince's "punk" album, not for the musical stylings, but for the lyrics and attitude that run throughout. It aggresively attacks societal mores and attitudes, and has an anti-authoritarian stance throughout. Primarily, it is adversarial to mainstream America's views on sex and sexuality. This doesn't necessarily mean that Prince is advocating seducing virgin brides or screwing sisters, but rather that he is challenging the listener to question what is right and wrong with sexuality as viewed by Middle America. In "Sister", there is a definite negative connotation that is paired with the salacious descriptions, and overall there is a sense that the woman in the song is taking advantage of her brother's naivette. In our typical culture, a younger man being taught the ways of sex by an older woman would be viewed as a boast-worthy affair, elevating the young man into the status of a sexual conqueror. Prince twists this concept with his sister theme, making it into an uncomfortable, rather repugnant idea. It is simealtaneously a titillating fantasy, and a nauseating tale of innocence lost.

Prince has hinted before that he wrote the song in a fit of anger, perhaps at one of his actual sisters (or at least a woman to whom he felt a bond on par with that of a sibling). The song certainly has an angry under-current. Does this mean that the sister in question actually had sexual relations with him under the threat of making him homeless if he didn't comply? It is certainly possible, but is just as likely that Prince was metaphorically describing some other slight, in which he felt taken advantage of and "screwed", so to speak. It is highly probable that Prince was giving this song the double purpose of shocking his audience, and excorcising some sort of anger at someone whom he felt betrayed by.

This tune is always one that sparks debate, and it says something about it that it can still cause a stir some 28 years later. Incest is not generally something that any sane individual views as a good, or exciting, act. It is morally repugnant, and generally viewed as a vile act. This aspect is certainly present in this song, strangely combined with a sense of guilty arousal. As I mentioned earlier, on this album the song is juxtaposed with a tale of a virgin being seduced on her wedding day. One song depicts Prince as the sexual conqueror, taking advantage of an innocent young woman, whilst the other presents him as the victim of an older woman. This is, in my opinion, no accident. The duality of Prince's psyche is first being displayed here, and his conflicted feelings regarding sex and sexuality are on full display. In many ways,this album was the building block to the passion plays of Love vs Lust that would be so prevelant in his later work.


You truly are the JediMaster.
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Reply #91 posted 05/27/08 7:25am

JediMaster

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Thanks, JustErin! Glad to know my thoughts on the matter are appreciated!
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #92 posted 05/27/08 8:23am

simm0061

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meow85 said:

IWouldDie4U666 said:

Prince is not gay, goddamn it! He even says he isn't in the "Uptown" song. He's gone out with girls and got married but got divorced. He makes songs about GIRLS.

How the fuck in the world do U think he's gay?! He likes girls! rolleyes


falloff
You're exactly the type of fan I'm talking about!

Why freak the fuck out about it, if there's nothing wrong with it? Prince isn't crying himself to sleep because someone, somewhere thinks he might like pole, so why are you? The dude doesn't need you to defend him. lol

And how do you think you know so conclusively he is straight, anyways? Because he writes songs about girls? Because he's been married twice? I'm sorry, but neither of those facts actually prove anything. Plenty of gay and bisexual men have girlfriends, get married, father children. By your logic, they can't possibly be anything but beer-swilling pussy-chasers.

aww, don't be too hard on him, the poster is barely a teenager. Homophobia and poor logic are practically rights of passage at that age. lol Hopefully he'll grow out of it!
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Reply #93 posted 05/27/08 9:18am

Boriqua1130

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TheMightyCelestial said:

Sister the song is a Fart that cries gently
from the ass of His Angel
And stinks up the Place to High Heaven.

rose


eek

lol
I'll β™₯️ "LemonDrop" 2DN πŸ’‹ your "Sugar"
Prince: TY! 🌹 🎢🎸🎢 πŸ’œ Rex @3/27/18 2D Media Let Prince R.I.P.
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Reply #94 posted 05/27/08 9:26am

SoulAlive

Love this song headbang The 'Dirty Mind' album is my third favorite Prince album.
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Reply #95 posted 05/27/08 6:16pm

Madison88

JediMaster said:

Thanks, JustErin! Glad to know my thoughts on the matter are appreciated!


Jedi you know so much!!!! Thanks!! I have a question...What do you think about the fact that when a man/boy is enticed by a woman/girl (sister in this case), that the male is more apt to act or "feel" something much stronger and out of their control in this situation and may act out with regret in the end in comparison to a woman being enticed by a male???....I wouldn't be surprised if Prince then wrote a song of a conquest and putting himself in a controlling position with a female.....in retaliation...weather it be in creative form or in reality to gain the control he felt was taken from him in the "sister" situation.????

I'm just curious....I haven't heard the songs...thanks! heart
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Reply #96 posted 05/27/08 6:32pm

ToraToraDreams

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JustErin said:

JediMaster said:

Back to the topic (y'know, the actual SONG), I DO think that the song's primary function was to shock. That doesn't immediately invalidate it as an artful tune, though. The song is presented, lyrically, in a format that wouldn't be out of place in the Penthouse Forum. The rather lewd descriptions of his sister not wearing underwear because of its way of "stopping the juice" has more in common with pornography than it does any great social statement. At this point in his career, Prince was trying to make a name for himself. In 1980, no one DREAMED of singing about being seduced by their sibling. Keep in mind, the track is preceded by "Head", which is not only about oral sex, but also about seducing a virgin on her wedding day. Prince was pushing the boundaries of what was acceptable for even rock stars to sing about and do. In "Sister", the straightforward approach of the song is a pornographic tale of a young man being introduced to his sexuality by an older woman. The lyrics are shocking enough for the time period, even if all references to the sibling nature of the older woman are removed. Prince takes this a step further by making his seducer into his sister. The primary intention is to stun the listener.

Dirty Mind has often been described as Prince's "punk" album, not for the musical stylings, but for the lyrics and attitude that run throughout. It aggresively attacks societal mores and attitudes, and has an anti-authoritarian stance throughout. Primarily, it is adversarial to mainstream America's views on sex and sexuality. This doesn't necessarily mean that Prince is advocating seducing virgin brides or screwing sisters, but rather that he is challenging the listener to question what is right and wrong with sexuality as viewed by Middle America. In "Sister", there is a definite negative connotation that is paired with the salacious descriptions, and overall there is a sense that the woman in the song is taking advantage of her brother's naivette. In our typical culture, a younger man being taught the ways of sex by an older woman would be viewed as a boast-worthy affair, elevating the young man into the status of a sexual conqueror. Prince twists this concept with his sister theme, making it into an uncomfortable, rather repugnant idea. It is simealtaneously a titillating fantasy, and a nauseating tale of innocence lost.

Prince has hinted before that he wrote the song in a fit of anger, perhaps at one of his actual sisters (or at least a woman to whom he felt a bond on par with that of a sibling). The song certainly has an angry under-current. Does this mean that the sister in question actually had sexual relations with him under the threat of making him homeless if he didn't comply? It is certainly possible, but is just as likely that Prince was metaphorically describing some other slight, in which he felt taken advantage of and "screwed", so to speak. It is highly probable that Prince was giving this song the double purpose of shocking his audience, and excorcising some sort of anger at someone whom he felt betrayed by.

This tune is always one that sparks debate, and it says something about it that it can still cause a stir some 28 years later. Incest is not generally something that any sane individual views as a good, or exciting, act. It is morally repugnant, and generally viewed as a vile act. This aspect is certainly present in this song, strangely combined with a sense of guilty arousal. As I mentioned earlier, on this album the song is juxtaposed with a tale of a virgin being seduced on her wedding day. One song depicts Prince as the sexual conqueror, taking advantage of an innocent young woman, whilst the other presents him as the victim of an older woman. This is, in my opinion, no accident. The duality of Prince's psyche is first being displayed here, and his conflicted feelings regarding sex and sexuality are on full display. In many ways,this album was the building block to the passion plays of Love vs Lust that would be so prevelant in his later work.


You truly are the JediMaster.

The force is with you

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Reply #97 posted 05/28/08 2:12am

tane1976

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Imago said:

Christopher said:


yes because incest with your older sister is much less offensive.

falloff

I love how people reveal their homophobia by taking so much offense to how gay Prince is. lol



I am gay, not homophobic, and I actually think people who think Prince is gay are homophobic themselves. They think hes gay because hes camp, wears make up, is strange, wears frocks occasionally and sings graphic songs about sex, some which are possibly interpreted as gay. But to me these are reinforcing stereotypes of gay people, thinking that becauses hes camp, wears makeup/dresses and sings falsetto, he must be gay because gays do that.

WRRROOOONNNNNGGGG!!!!! .

Look its clearly obvious that hes a straight man, hes an inveterate womaniser, loves to control women, sings graphic songs about sex with ladies and their private parts (Machine, Good Pussy, Tambourine etc ). It would be great if Prince was gay, but hes not, hes all red blooded American male.
17 Years ago I made a commitment to Prince
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Reply #98 posted 05/28/08 2:26am

meow85

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OskarKristio2 said:

bunch of stuff


I didn't say Prince was against homosexuality -though one certainly could make that argument given the religion he's actively chosen to become a member of. What I did say though is that, though I would love to say Our Hero is an openminded, free-thinking individual and always has been, I personally see more evidence of Prince being a more conservative bent, in spite of his onstage antics in the past. There's this myth within the fan community that Prince is some beacon of social and sexual freedom; some icon of free-spiritedness. But unfortunately, I think that really is more myth than reality.

He's also fairly religious, and always had been. Given the stance of the black church on homosexuality -and many Christian churches in general -it's more likely than not that growing up he'd absorbed some anti-gay ideas or beliefs, even if he himself was not explicitly anti-gay.

In short, I just don't think it's that likely he'd ever come out on purpose if he was queer. Or for that matter, even act on it. shrug


As for bisexuality. Yes, it exists. There's no debate, no question, except among those of you who can't conceive of being attracted to more than one gender. That gay people and straight people still debate it is ludicrous. It's like stating you don't believe in redheads.
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #99 posted 05/28/08 2:32am

Anji

Would you believe me if I told you 'sister' was actually a 'half-brother'?
Peace, y'all.
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Reply #100 posted 05/28/08 2:45am

meow85

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tane1976 said:

Imago said:


falloff

I love how people reveal their homophobia by taking so much offense to how gay Prince is. lol



I am gay, not homophobic, and I actually think people who think Prince is gay are homophobic themselves. They think hes gay because hes camp, wears make up, is strange, wears frocks occasionally and sings graphic songs about sex, some which are possibly interpreted as gay. But to me these are reinforcing stereotypes of gay people, thinking that becauses hes camp, wears makeup/dresses and sings falsetto, he must be gay because gays do that.

WRRROOOONNNNNGGGG!!!!! .

Look its clearly obvious that hes a straight man, hes an inveterate womaniser, loves to control women, sings graphic songs about sex with ladies and their private parts (Machine, Good Pussy, Tambourine etc ). It would be great if Prince was gay, but hes not, hes all red blooded American male.


Actually, all that which you mentioned in the second paragraph leads me more to think he might not be straight than most of the girly stuff above does.

So if people who think Prince is gay or bi are homophobic themselves, and you seem to think that one can't be gay and homophobic ("I am gay, not homophobic") then I guess most of those who think Prince might be gay or bi are set to implode from the contradiction. razz

Oh, and that bolded phrase above? What the fuck does that even mean? falloff
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #101 posted 05/28/08 2:47am

meow85

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Anji said:

Would you believe me if I told you 'sister' was actually a 'half-brother'?
Peace, y'all.

Like I said, I never know what to make of you people. hmm
"A Watcher scoffs at gravity!"
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Reply #102 posted 05/28/08 3:15am

NouveauDance

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Imago said:


The jungle love scene would be especially hilarious with Larry and his sidekick, Kirky J. holding a mirror to Larry's face, while Larry combs his bigass mustache lol

falloff

I love this thread! lol
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Reply #103 posted 05/28/08 1:08pm

tane1976

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meow85 said:

tane1976 said:




I am gay, not homophobic, and I actually think people who think Prince is gay are homophobic themselves. They think hes gay because hes camp, wears make up, is strange, wears frocks occasionally and sings graphic songs about sex, some which are possibly interpreted as gay. But to me these are reinforcing stereotypes of gay people, thinking that becauses hes camp, wears makeup/dresses and sings falsetto, he must be gay because gays do that.

WRRROOOONNNNNGGGG!!!!! .

Look its clearly obvious that hes a straight man, hes an inveterate womaniser, loves to control women, sings graphic songs about sex with ladies and their private parts (Machine, Good Pussy, Tambourine etc ). It would be great if Prince was gay, but hes not, hes all red blooded American male.


Actually, all that which you mentioned in the second paragraph leads me more to think he might not be straight than most of the girly stuff above does.

So if people who think Prince is gay or bi are homophobic themselves, and you seem to think that one can't be gay and homophobic ("I am gay, not homophobic") then I guess most of those who think Prince might be gay or bi are set to implode from the contradiction. razz

Oh, and that bolded phrase above? What the fuck does that even mean? falloff
. Red blooded American male, phrase meaning lusty heterosexual man from the United of America. Stop assuming I ma homphobic, because you missed the point completely, what I was saying is just because Prince conforms to a few so called gay stereotypes, that does not make him gay.
I ma gay and proud (So there) but do not wear make up or dresses, sing in aa high pitched voice and mince around 18-20 Tijuana style latina barbie dolls like Prince does. Whats the next wifes name gonna be Conchita, Mexicanna la Discotitta Maria de Jose lupevado guato guato loco perez?
17 Years ago I made a commitment to Prince
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Reply #104 posted 05/28/08 1:11pm

rbrpm

that's what I say shock value, also the cracked me up 4 some reason! lol
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Reply #105 posted 05/28/08 1:13pm

Christopher

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tane1976 said:

. Whats the next wifes name gonna be Conchita, Mexicanna la Discotitta Maria de Jose lupevado guato guato loco perez?

lol i love your stereotypes they're always so casual like "what did i do, what?".. lol
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Reply #106 posted 05/28/08 1:39pm

KidaDynamite

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ToraToraDreams said:

JustErin said:



You truly are the JediMaster.

The force is with you


lol lol
surviving on the thought of loving you, it's just like the water
I ain't felt this way in years...
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Reply #107 posted 05/29/08 3:30am

tane1976

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Christopher said:

tane1976 said:

. Whats the next wifes name gonna be Conchita, Mexicanna la Discotitta Maria de Jose lupevado guato guato loco perez?

lol i love your stereotypes they're always so casual like "what did i do, what?".. lol

Sorry New Zealand is a bit of a hot bed of ignorance. I just don't like being called homophobic, I am more concerned with Prince's music, the songs, the craft the power, rather than scurrilous gossip about Prince being gay/ drag/incestuous
17 Years ago I made a commitment to Prince
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Reply #108 posted 05/29/08 3:51am

gurdet

tane1976 said:

meow85 said:



Actually, all that which you mentioned in the second paragraph leads me more to think he might not be straight than most of the girly stuff above does.

So if people who think Prince is gay or bi are homophobic themselves, and you seem to think that one can't be gay and homophobic ("I am gay, not homophobic") then I guess most of those who think Prince might be gay or bi are set to implode from the contradiction. razz

Oh, and that bolded phrase above? What the fuck does that even mean? falloff
. Red blooded American male, phrase meaning lusty heterosexual man from the United of America. Stop assuming I ma homphobic, because you missed the point completely, what I was saying is just because Prince conforms to a few so called gay stereotypes, that does not make him gay.
I ma gay and proud (Smince around 18-20 Tijuana style latina barbie dolls like Prince doeso there) but do not wear make up or dresses, sing in aa high pitched voice and . Whats the next wifes name gonna be Conchita, Mexicanna la Discotitta Maria de Jose lupevado guato guato loco perez?


Does Prince mince?? I didn't think he did razz

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Reply #109 posted 05/29/08 6:09am

JediMaster

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Anji said:

Would you believe me if I told you 'sister' was actually a 'half-brother'?
Peace, y'all.


Would you believe me if I told you that 'Dolphin' is actually a 'Porpoise'?

rolleyes
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #110 posted 05/29/08 6:14am

JediMaster

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Madison88 said:

JediMaster said:

Thanks, JustErin! Glad to know my thoughts on the matter are appreciated!


Jedi you know so much!!!! Thanks!! I have a question...What do you think about the fact that when a man/boy is enticed by a woman/girl (sister in this case), that the male is more apt to act or "feel" something much stronger and out of their control in this situation and may act out with regret in the end in comparison to a woman being enticed by a male???....I wouldn't be surprised if Prince then wrote a song of a conquest and putting himself in a controlling position with a female.....in retaliation...weather it be in creative form or in reality to gain the control he felt was taken from him in the "sister" situation.????

I'm just curious....I haven't heard the songs...thanks! heart


I feel that it is a by-product of our culture. Males are raised to be "dominant", so a female taking advantage of him, in any capacity, is going to elicit an angry, confused response (at least in many men, not all). I think it is highly likely that Prince wrote this song as a way of regaining some semblance of control for a situation that he felt a sense of helplessness over.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #111 posted 05/29/08 6:15am

JediMaster

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ToraToraDreams said:



The force is with you



That Gif is great! I love that rapping Yoda video!


----
[Edited 5/29/08 6:17am]
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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