"BOOTLEGGERS R NOT FANS. THEY SELL UNAUTHORIZED STOLEN PROPERTY 2 FANS. [bla bla bla] MESSAGE 2 BOOTLEGGERS: LEAVE UR RECORDING EQUIPMENT AT HOME. ILLEGAL REPRODUCTION OF INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY IS PROHIBITED. PEACE"
===
Prince has been aggressive for years in going after people who he thinks are hurting his pocketbook. At the highest level, it was Warner Bros who holds his masters. He went after Uptown. He shut down that nice woman who ran the Prince Family website a few years ago. Now he's on to websites that link to a file or two from time to time. Frankly, I'm surprised he's never tried to shut down prince.org. Now there's this latest email reminding everyone that bootleg recording is illegal.

This has me so annoyed that I want to appeal to Prince's sense of self-interest to put an end to this mindlessness.

Let me begin by explaining why I think my opinion matters. First, I'm a huge Prince fan. I first heard him on a school bus in 1981 and have followed his career closely ever since. Second, I'm a businessman. I manage institutional money totalling 9 figures. I work with lots of companies with the simple aim of making money. In fact, my office is just across the street from Londell's.

I don't dispute Prince's claim that bootlegs are illegal. They are. Where he is completely wrong is thinking that they damage him.

Here are a couple of facts.
1. There's no money in bootlegs. These companies (if you want to call them that) are very small shops who sell very few records. Think about it, original bootlegs are difficult for the average consumer to find and buy. It's an underground activity that has next to no distribution. Now with mp3s and the internet, companies who produce bootlegs have been the hardest hit because one person who buys a copy then circulates countless digital copies to friends and anonymous people through the internet.

2. Artists who embrace bootleg recordings have the most loyal fan bases and enjoy great success in touring. The Phish, Dave Matthews, Pearl Jam, U2, the Grateful Dead. What do these acts all have in common? All have had active bootleg trading among fans and all have enjoyed huge success touring. Prince knows well, the real money is in touring not in record sales.

So if Prince would give up his crusade on bootlegs he wouldn't cost himself any money. Moreover, allowing fans to enjoy more of his music will only make them more devoted fans. I offer up my own experience as an example. Soon after getting on the internet in 1995 I discovered the online Prince community and heard for the first time about bootlegs. I heard about this amazing recording of an aftershow in Holland. You all know the one. I tracked down a copy and I still remember laying on my bed late one night and listening to it for the first time. It is not an exaggeration to say that it changed my life. I became 10 times the Prince fan I had been until then.

If I had not stumbled on that recording I can guarantee you this: I would not have bought any of his records after Emancipation. I would not have joined the NPGMC, and I would not have gone to any of the seven concerts I've been to since 1997. That's about $1,000 I've put into Prince Inc. that's he's got because I became a more intense fan after discovering his live bootleg recordings that I bought from an evildoer bootlegger.

It's so simple how to solve this to make everybody happy. He should become the source of his live recordings and distribute them to fans through the NPGMC. He can pull out the soundboard recordings going back to '79 that nobody has and make them available to the fans. That would simultaneously devastate the demand for illegal bootlegs since they are generally of inferior quality and solidify his fan base. So to the man who says he wants to be #1 at the bank, Prince, wise up and stop trying to squelch the demand for your product. It not only separates you from your fans but ultimately stops the flow of money into the First National Bank of Paisley.

27

WORD UP!!!


one clarification: PrinceFamily site was closed because of the creators frustration with Prince and his lawsuit...She was *not* involved in any claims...


i hope you sent this over to npgmc..its a nice letter...

u make me gonna cry!

I really love ur statement
I have 2 become a MUCH greater Prince fan. Ever since I heard Rebirth Of The Flesh & Wonderful Ass...My generosity twards anything that he puts out went over the top. Then when I heard the bootleg of The Work. I went crazy waiting 2 buy Rainbow Children. Turned out 2 be one of the greatest albums.

But yes I agree totally! 2 my Prince fams who cannot stand peeps who buy or listen 2 the boots...trust me u'll have beter appreciation 4 the man.

Extraloveable tell ur body what 2 du

Very well said 27. Sometimes Prince doesn't have any common sense.

Perhaps Prince feels (as He once said)
that TOO much material would oversaturate
and would have a contrary affect.

Also I think he feels some older material is not up to HIS standards. He doesn't want to realize we (at least I) actually
prefer unfinished ,underproduced or recordings not overlydubbed. Tracks in their rawest form have their special
quality.

Also I think HE would feel self-defeating
by going back to old tracks ,as opposed
to newly inspired work.

The people that don't listen to the bootlegs, don't know what they're missing.

I totally agree but on the other hand we all know damn well that Prince would NEVER do anything like you suggest. He's a perfectionist and control freak out of the ordinary, and now that he's at last releasing a live cd set it'll be with overdubs and after two months of working it over in the mixing room... he just doesn't get it, really. He think in old fashioned ways himself when it comes to releasing music and running a business. The whole digital revolution took him by surprise and even though he tried to catch the wave he never succeded. I mean: there probably isn't one single member of the NPGMC who's satisfied with the club this year. Where are the downloads? Where are the cd's? Where are the good offers? (I don't regard 20 dollar candels and 25 dollars t-shirts very good offers!)... And most of all: Where the heck is the music?!! Bootlegging will never stop as long as Prince handles his business like this.Oh boy, I wish he would do like suggsted here but honestly I am pretty sure he never will...
[This message was edited Tue Oct 1 1:04:54 PDT 2002 by jalokin]

Well said "the27thletter"! Everything that you stated really makes a lot of sense. I also have become to appreciate Prince more after listening to bootleg recordings. They help one to realize what a true genius he is. o(+>

Wonderfully put! A few days ago in the chat, the discussion centered around formulating a plan for Prince to combat bootleggers by releasing live recordings of all of his tours and therefore earning lots of $. A plan is formulating to collect data about fan preferences and propose the idea to Prince himself through NPGMC. Let's hope he listens.

Hey Prince. If your reading this thread, LISTEN TO THE MAN.


Hey 27, nice job!!

Can you imagine your Prince collection without the bootlegs, it would be nothing!! Bootlegs keep Prince alive.

Jasper said:

I hate to say it but this short statement holds more truth than you first realize. I have always enjoyed Prince bootlegs because they give me a personal insight into Prince the musician and Prince the producer. I like everything from the unreleased studio tracks, to the live shows, to the aftershows, to the rehearsals, to the early demos of his released music. Case in point; I just got 3 new boots in the mail on Friday. The first was THE WORK 1 which is a 4 CD set of early studio released and unreleased material covering the years from 1978 to 1984. It is an amazing CD set to say the least (not to mention that the sound quality is AMAZING!!!). You get to hear early demos of some released tunes (DMSR, 2 different versions of Soft and Wet, If I love you tonite, Chocolate, Manic Monday, Tick TIck Bang and a 30 jam of I would die 4 U). Then there are the unreleased songs (Moonbeam Levels, Baby your a trip, and Vibrator). Now I know for a fact that there are NUMEROUS Prince fans on this site who love Moon Beam Levels to death. Now Imagine that you had never heard this song because it was still tucked away in the vault. Here you get over 5 hours of awesome Prince history in one CD set. You would be a fool to pass up a copy of this set.

Another CD I got last friday was a digital copy of the 1988 LoveSexy show in Dortmund Germany. This show has been floating around on the market for years. Believe it or not the first Prince bootleg CD that I ever bought was waaay back in 1989 and it was a copy of this show (The name of the CD was: The White Album). I played this CD so much that I knew every word and bass-line to every song. One of the tracks on that CD was a little ditty called "If I had A Harem". I had never heard it before and fell in love with it the first time I heard it. And if memory serves me right this is one of Prince`s most famous unreleased songs. Everyone knows the words to it. I would really be disappointed if I had never heard this song (not to mention the entire CD because the Dortmund show is one of my favorite shows.) I also know that there a lot of other P.ogers who like this show too.

My final boot was a 3 CD set called Sign of The Times Rehearsal Sessions 2.0. I picked up this set because the SOTT tour was my personal favorite. This CD set is basically a run thru of the European SOTT tour. However they do Strange Relationship and I haven`t heard that song done live very often. Now again if memory serves me right I know that a lot of my fellow orgers adore Strange Relationship and hearing it live adds a different spin to a song many of us love. Now that I have heard it Im glad that I bought the boot.

Getting back to my point I have always considered Princes unreleased material a vast and intresting musical world which I enjoy exploring. I cant imagine never hearing some of my favorite Prince tunes (People Without, Days of Wild, The Ride). Furthermore we all know that Prince puts on one hell of a live show but without The Beautiful Experience bootleg, or LiveSexy, or His Royal Badness, or The Return of The Bump Squad, or The First Avenue Show how would we know this? And finally what about some of the totally kickin afterwhows? SMALL CLUB need I say more??? Imagine if you had never heard this CD. If you havent; then my friends you are missing out. And Prince is trying to keep us from enjoying this world. How phoney is that I ask?


PS. Here is a link that talks about some of the boots that I discussed. It is my Bible for bootleg reference material:

www.guide2prince.org " target="_blank"> www.guide2prince.org

www.guide2prince.org


Oppps. Guess I screwed up one the URL. This link will take you there. Just click it on, read the rules, and then click on I agree at the bottom of the page. Also you should bookmark this site for future usage. FB

One word...two syllables AMEN!!!

The reason alot of us stayed fans was because of the "unreleased" material found on bootlegs. We wanted everything we could find on the man...every note he played.

hmmm..didn't he say the same thing about James Brown?!

I honestly don't think that Prince would even have that large of a fan base without them. (other than the few who say "oooh..I love Purple Rain")

The fact that we even WANT "unreleased" material is because we are/were fans!!! If we didn't...maybe there wouldn't be a Prince.org community to begin with.


SUPPORT www.freemyheart.com
[This message was edited Tue Oct 1 2:53:58 PDT 2002 by Vashti]
[This message was edited Tue Oct 1 2:54:25 PDT 2002 by Vashti]

Vashti said:

A-MEN girlfriend!!! Im gonna go out and buy me another bootleg right now!!! Maybe the CITY LIGHTS 11 CD set. Now all I gotta do is hold up a few banks.

Vashti

I couldn't say it any better !

I really hope Prince is reading this and that he changes his mind. Man, that would be great !!!

People who own bootlegs, are people that already have every album, ... so they are the biggest FANS !

The best piece i've ever read on this matter. so true.

Very well put the27thletter.

You should email it to NPGMC
and ask them to pass it on to Prince.

With regard to Prince's worries about
oversaturation. In my opinion, that only
applies to the general chart buying
population and casual fans. Obviously if
an artist constantly releases singles
and albums, and has a lot of exposure on
radio and tv all the time, the public
will get take them for granted and get
sick of them.

But this does not apply to the core fanbase
of any artist. The fact that bootlegs exist
at all illustrates this point.

I wouldn't be 'oversaturated' by Prince tunes even if he'd
sent me a 3cd box set EVERY week.

Anyway, I never saw the harm in bootlegging. I mean, the
kind of bootlegging I'm talking about concerns things that
are not officially released: live trax and outtakes.

The normal retail shopping public does not buy boots and
only buys the occasional album.

If anything, the 'average' public downloads more of his
official music illegally than the hardcore accolites whom
want EVERYTHING they can get. Hell, there are some people
on the org whom even bought The Very Best Of Prince just
because it was an official release.

The 'general' public however saw their interest in Prince
rekindled for about 3 days and decided to enter the online
sites en mass to download his biggest hits for free.

People who are really interested in his music don't just
want the tunes but also the artwork -the complete package.
Which means they BUY all the official stuff and then look
for more on the net or through other channels.

So yes, Prince should lay off these people trading obscure
live performances. He should know by now that without these
peopel there would be no more npgmc and certainly no more
major label deals. Without the real obsessed lunes [us] he
would have a worldwide fanbase of what? 20.000??

So wake up Prince and realise that at least these people
are still interested enough. These are the exact same
people whom own each and every darn release you ever put
out through official channels.

Besides, the leakage of live material is just omnipresent
in the music industry. It even attributes to an artists
stature [if he's a good performer anyway].

The whole thing becomes even more rediculous since there
are no plans to release most of the music officially in
the near future.

Or will he release a 3 cd 85-88 outtake set this year????

I THINK NOT.




I suspect I'll need about 3 more edits b4 I get it right.
[This message was edited Tue Oct 1 4:39:34 PDT 2002 by IstenSzek]
[This message was edited Tue Oct 1 4:51:25 PDT 2002 by IstenSzek]

standing ovation

Haven't Pearl Jam resently released loads of live CD's on the same day ? Prince should at least do one CD from each tour.
I can't believe what he's done to the ONA Live CD set. All it'll act as is a sampler CD for the complete, bootleg, recordings !!

hi everybody! i'm nmot that good with englisgh, not enough practice -- but nevertheless i think this discussion is very interesting - here are my thoughts:

- pearl jam are trying to BEAT bootleggers with releasing a live cd of every show (just like zappa - beat the boots) - good idea, but no "embracing" of bootleggers, but the opposite. the quality of this recordings differs a lot, (concerning performances, editing, mixing, mastering...) that's what an artist is trying to avoid with NOT releasing every concert

- of course there IS money in bootlegs. the bootleg labels have almost no costs (no mastering, mixing, editing, no engineers, no musicians, no participation of the artists...) except for the production of the cd, which is as low as you think it is

- why are we not getting more already bootlegged material from prince? because it's already bootlegged! and of course no artist wants to release every bit of music - thats why he is the artist - it's his right to choose what he wants to give to the public.

Solution to everything:

Put up live recordings on NPGMC and sell the downloads for $10 each to club members. If P is serious about making the club his direct connection to his fans, then let's have it, man. If he did this so far this year...how many tour stops has he made so far, 50?...that's $500 more of my money that he has, I've got more tunes than I can handle, and bootleggers don't get jack.

DAMN, dude has an EXCELLENT POINT...

I gotta admit, something sparked inside me when I first came to the Org & heard about Seduction's site. I was TRULY excited all over again just from listening to stuff that had been floating around for years, only I'd never heard it.

Prince could make a KILLING if he distributed this stuff himself. But he's stubborn, doesn't wanna put it out unless it's perfect I guess. He just doesn't understand how great his live stuff is - fuck perfection & overdubs, it's perfect b/c he's playing it & IT KICKS ASS.

I wish he'd trust himself more & trust his audience more. We ain't lyin' to ya, baby! When it's subpar, you KNOW we tell you. And when it's good, we're gonna get it one way or another. I know this must burn him up but wouldn't it be much less stressful for him to just embrace this inevitable situation???



Here's a question for the collectors:

Considering EVERY show of Princes is recorded somewhere & knowing he would never put out EVERY show he does, what if he agreed to put out a few live cd's a year? Let's say 3 - 5, would that be good enough? Would you stop buying boots?

I say yes, especially since he stays pretty faithful to the setlist anyway. It's the aftershows that get really interesting - I'd love a kickass compilation of the best aftershow performances.

WE CAN DREAM...

IstenSzek said:

I get oversaturated by Prince tunes every friggin' time I listen to them. Oh, wait, that's just my panties...

My first thought is "Doesn't anyone care that bootlegging is stealing and just wrong?"

My second thought is that most of you cannot be writers. Or perhaps you've never created something you really care about. Or maybe you have never had something that you created taken away from you and bastardized.

Anyway, this is really sad. I think Prince should sue until the bootleggers are naked and living on the streets.

Addendum:
Yes, it would be wonderful if the man would release the music himself. But, if you think that will stop the slimeballs from trying to get "money for nothing", i.e. making money off of Prince's toil, then you are not wise to the way of the world.

:applause:
AS soon as Ben gets settled in Spain, I gotta axe him for an appluase emoticon

violett said:

and a "co-sign" one...

teacherlady88 said:

This is true...but there is much more of a market for bootlegged material because it is just that: bootlegged, i.e. unavailable elsewhere. I have never heard of anyone searching for a bootleg of something that's been officially released.

Yes, bootlegging is wrong. Immoral. Illegal. But how many problems in this world of ours can be completely solved by a multi-millionaire deciding to basically do the same thing that is causing the problem (i.e. releasing material), and end up even richer in the process? Win, win, win, cha-ching.