Vashtix said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Naw I don't think keeping Prince in the 1980s has anything to do with it.

The Ebony article was troubling to me. I wish I never read that. The paranoid comment about Susan Rogers wanting to take over the Vault or something like that was just not 'rational'. There were some other things that was not 'truthful' in my opinion.

.

For example I celebrated that he was a 50 something year old man, vs many other fans who went over the top saying 'he never ages' 'he looks as young as he did in 1981' etc which wasn't realistic nor was it a helpful thing for anyone whose looks was heavily a part of his career. To become older and have to reconcile that is hard enough. To have fans not be realistic and realize he could have have a little work done and he wears make up and there is also photoshopping in photos.

.

Prince though has always had the opportunity to speak his own story. No one ever denied him that.
I think it was maybe 2009 or during that 3yr stretch of him not releasing an album, that I wanted him to start writing a memoir. Oh do U remember all the fans that were so uptight that he hadn't released an album quickly? how antsy people were that 2-3yrs was going by and no album? I thought it was a good thing for him to take some time and not rush out easy songs. AoA was just not my cup of tea though.

I feel when someone shares their thoughts and opinions especially about themselves whether I agree or not I need to accept it. It is their truth to tell.

I loved that Ebony article because I feel Prince was telling his truth. Yes, it went against what had been accepted as his truth but what had been accepted was a narrative from others. It was refreshing to get it from him. YES, it was different than what had been written and accepted as true which is why I am thankful he set the record straight.

.

I really loved A0A and play it to this day all the time. It is Prince as a mature middle aged man. I adore the whole thing especially The Breakdown and Way Back Home. Prince had evolved and was so different than that 20 something he was way back when. We were blessed to see it. The man who left her last year was special, most people never have courage to grow and change and become better and I think he did, his music says it. My thing is that Prince spoke his truth and not accepting it as legitimate is denying his-story, his truth. It was his life. There are things about Prince that make me cringe but it was him. It was what he chose and what he did- he was a grown behind man- he worked hard for what he achieved and the least I can do is respect him as a human being with thoughts and opinions and views that yes, are not aligning with what has been thought as true. However Prince's truth just the same.

Yeah I hear ya.
In this day i age though, I find myself saying 'his/her story'. Yah know when everyone says 'tell his/her truth' it is a bit weird for me in general. Truth is truth, not a lie or exaggeration or 1/2 truth.
I was just raised a certain way when it came to that stuff.

He's telling a story, his story. And I wish he was able to complete his memoir. Which the way it was described is exactly the way I envisioned he would. "an unconventional and poetic journey through his life and creative work – from the family that shaped him and the people, places, and ideas that fired his creative imagination, to the stories behind the music that changed the world,"

man, this was supposed to be released Fall 2017

http://prince.org/msg/7/422569

OldFriends4Sale said:

His memoirs would have been epic. So ashame for us we did not get that.
[Edited 6/25/17 9:18am]

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

Of the people you mention only David Coleman can be heard on the official PR deluxe version. He plays the 5 or 6 notes on the oud repeated throughout the song. The Melvoins had nothing to do with the song. Nor did Lisa it seems. It's Jill Jones on backing vocals.

according to this Lisa Coleman is on it too

http://www.startribune.com/revolution-keyboardist-shares-untold-stories-from-prince-s-soon-to-be-reissued-purple-rain/428738003/

“We Can [Bleep]”

This song grew out of a Los Angeles jam session involving Coleman’s brother, David Coleman, playing an oud, a Middle Eastern stringed instrument.

“This was when we were moving onto [the next album] ‘Around the World in a Day.’ Prince was really taken with David at the time. My brother was very schooled in Arabic and Middle Eastern music. Prince was piqued by someone who knew part of a language he wasn’t familiar with.

“David’s groove brought out Prince’s favorite thing — funky. He thought Middle Eastern music was very sexy. He married a belly dancer after that.

“The words were pretty silly. Prince was telling me to sing like Bette Davis.”

That quote is a bit odd because she has told exactly the same thing in connection with the recording of All My Dreams. Maybe she have them mixed up? I don't hear Lisa on We Can F**k. Do you?

*
Oldfriends4sale said:


*

Oldfriends4sale said:

* Before I go on, I hope it's okay to add my thoughts to this debate without anyone taking it personal. It's only a debate about the inspiration of a song. Not that serious in the scheme of things...

OFFS, I read both articles you referred to in some of your post, the one where Susannah and Prince were in a dispute over "The Family" and it got to the point where words were exchanged regarding Prince asking if she needed to go attend to her children. I also read the other article, where Wendy said he called Susannah six months prior to his death. http://www.billboard.com/...al-moments The call was seemingly to make amends over their dispute as he was reaching out to everyone from his past at that time. A call six month prior to his death would have taken place in October, but that interview took place after that call, closer to January. December 22, 2015. He would have already made amends with Susannah by the time that interview took place. The theory that he was lying about the song being inspired by Vanity because he was angry with Susannah doesn't add up in this time frame.

In any case, give or take a few more months, they surely would have made amends by February 15, 2016 at the night of Vanity's passing - but on that night, February 15 2016 in the US - Feb 16 2016 in Melbourne Australia, at his tribute show to Vanity, Prince would again revisit the idea that "The Beautiful Ones" was inspired by Vanity. In anticipation of singing "The Beautiful Ones" (while in mourning) and well after he'd had time to reconcile with Susannah, Prince relayed, "She knows about this one" initiating that this was one particular song Vanity knew she'd inspired. Apart from that Ebony article, this statement dominates anything ever said about who inspired that song because Prince was caught off guard that night. This was an impromptu tribute that he had no idea he'd ever have to eulogize. He was in mourning and at his most vulnerable. Further, even if he was still angry with Susannah at this time, to imply that Vanity inspired a song that she hadn't, would have tainted her eulogy on a night that was meant to honor her. That statement alone was strong enough implication that Vanity inspired the song, but coupled with what he said in that article, it's unavoidable closure.

As you've said OFFS, "The Beautiful Ones" wasn't originally in the movie when Vanity's character was relevant. But conveniently after Vanity left in August, Prince wrote the lyrics "The beautiful ones, you always seem to loose" and recorded it in September. Those specific lyrics were not intended for character's justification. Those lyrics were the annotation of a painful real life breakup (as this very article the OP posted states.) That's what Prince was trying to relay in that Ebony article - Vanity had left, so those lyrics were inspired due to her departure from his life... (not the character she would have played) the character analogy comes into fruition when he says, "If they look at it, it’s very obvious. Do you want him or do you want me, that was written for that scene in Purple Rain specifically. Where Morris Day would be sitting with Apollonia, and there’d be this back and forth." Susannah herself admitted that this was something Prince did often when she said "He wasn’t always specifically writing about what he was going through, because he also had to be consistent with the Purple Rain storyline" That's exactly what Prince did, and exactly what he was trying to relay. I agree with this article. I think it was spot on when it stated that the song blends the painful real-life split with Vanity and the invented story arc for Apollonia.
[Edited 6/25/17 9:04am]

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

according to this Lisa Coleman is on it too

http://www.startribune.com/revolution-keyboardist-shares-untold-stories-from-prince-s-soon-to-be-reissued-purple-rain/428738003/

“We Can [Bleep]”

This song grew out of a Los Angeles jam session involving Coleman’s brother, David Coleman, playing an oud, a Middle Eastern stringed instrument.

“This was when we were moving onto [the next album] ‘Around the World in a Day.’ Prince was really taken with David at the time. My brother was very schooled in Arabic and Middle Eastern music. Prince was piqued by someone who knew part of a language he wasn’t familiar with.

“David’s groove brought out Prince’s favorite thing — funky. He thought Middle Eastern music was very sexy. He married a belly dancer after that.

“The words were pretty silly. Prince was telling me to sing like Bette Davis.”

That quote is a bit odd because she has told exactly the same thing in connection with the recording of All My Dreams. Maybe she have them mixed up? I don't hear Lisa on We Can F**k. Do you?

Can U post that where she was talking about the recording of All My Dreams?
.
Why would it be odd? If Prince somehow connected Lisa with Bette Davis, then for him to want her to shadow Bette Davis on other songs is not far fetched.
.
Who was it that Prince wanted Andy Allo to watch/study/express?

Luvgirl

luvgirl said:

* Oldfriends4sale said:

I side with Prince as well about the song being about Vanity's character. But I also believe there is truth 2 the Susannah part. That was the news since 1984/85. And Prince never refuted it, until he was upset with her. This remember is the man that 'never looks back' and doesn't understand why people have to celebrate anniversaries and such. Also the man that said the Time was Morris's band and Morris fired Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis... It must be the truth right? Since Prince said it. . I was listening 2 When Doves Cry... and this is another example. Now for the sake of the movie Prince wrote the song and obviously the inspirations would be ? the love interest for the movie(written on March 1st 1984) so would that be Vanity or Apollonia? Was Vanity gone at this time? Manic Monday was recorded with Prince & Apollonia 6 in February, and the other inspirations would be the Father and the Mother and possibly the Revolution, maybe even Billy. But again word out of the camp is that Susan Moonsie(Vanity/Apollonia 6) was the real life inspiration. . Can it be both? Of course.

*Oldfriends4sale said:

Prince during the Piano & Mic tour talked about Vanity (after she passed away). At this time he was upset at Susannah over something during a phone conversation the previous year. And part of me feels he talking about the song the Beautiful Ones in an interview prior was getting back at her. . After his mortality check, he calls Wendy and asks 4 Susannah's phone number to talk. This was all around the time he was reconnecting with so many people.

* Before I go on, I hope it's okay to add my thoughts to this debate without anyone taking it personal. It's only a debate about the inspiration of a song. Not that serious in the scheme of things... OFFS, I read both articles you referred to in some of your post, the one where Susannah and Prince were in a dispute over "The Family" and it got to the point where words were exchanged regarding Prince asking if she needed to go attend to her children. I also read the other article, where Wendy said he called Susannah six months prior to his death. http://www.billboard.com/...l-moments. The call was seemingly to make amends over their dispute as he was reaching out to everyone from his past at that time. A call six month prior to his death would have taken place in October, but that interview took place after that call, closer to January. December 22, 2015. He would have already made amends with Susannah by the time that interview took place. The theory that he was lying about the song being inspired by Vanity because he was angry with Susannah doesn't add up in this time frame. In any case, give or take a few more months, they surely would have made amends by February 15, 2016 at the night of Vanity's passing - but on that night, February 15 2016 in the US - Feb 16 2016 in Melbourne Australia, at his tribute show to Vanity, Prince would again revisit the idea that "The Beautiful Ones" was inspired by Vanity. In anticipation of singing "The Beautiful Ones" (while in mourning) and well after he'd had time to reconcile with Susannah, Prince relayed, "She knows about this one" initiating that this was one particular song Vanity knew she'd inspired. Apart from that Ebony article, this statement dominates anything ever said about who inspired that song because Prince was caught off guard that night. This was an impromptu tribute that he had no idea he'd ever have to eulogize. He was in mourning and at his most vulnerable. Further, even if he was still angry with Susannah at this time, to imply that Vanity inspired a song that she hadn't, would have tainted her eulogy on a night that was meant to honor her. That statement alone was strong enough implication that Vanity inspired the song, but coupled with what he said in that article, it's unavoidable closure. As you've said OFFS, "The Beautiful Ones" wasn't originally in the movie when Vanity's character was relevant. But conveniently after Vanity left in August, Prince wrote the lyrics "The beautiful ones, you always seem to loose" and recorded it in September. Those specific lyrics were not intended for character's justification. Those lyrics were the annotation of a painful real life breakup (as this very article the OP posted states.) That's what Prince was trying to relay in that Ebony article - Vanity had left, so those lyrics were inspired due to her departure from his life... (not the character she would have played) the character analogy comes into fruition when he says, "If they look at it, it’s very obvious. Do you want him or do you want me, that was written for that scene in Purple Rain specifically. Where Morris Day would be sitting with Apollonia, and there’d be this back and forth." Susannah herself admitted that this was something Prince did often when she said "He wasn’t always specifically writing about what he was going through, because he also had to be consistent with the Purple Rain storyline" That's exactly what Prince did, and exactly what he was trying to relay. I agree with this article. I think it was spot on when it stated that the song blends the painful real-life split with Vanity and the invented story arc for Apollonia. [Edited 6/25/17 6:31am]

Vashtix said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yeah I hear ya.
In this day i age though, I find myself saying 'his/her story'. Yah know when everyone says 'tell his/her truth' it is a bit weird for me in general. Truth is truth, not a lie or exaggeration or 1/2 truth.
I was just raised a certain way when it came to that stuff.

He's telling a story, his story. And I wish he was able to complete his memoir. Which the way it was described is exactly the way I envisioned he would. "an unconventional and poetic journey through his life and creative work – from the family that shaped him and the people, places, and ideas that fired his creative imagination, to the stories behind the music that changed the world,"

man, this was supposed to be released Fall 2017

http://prince.org/msg/7/422569

His memoirs would have been epic. So ashane for us we did not get that.

I wonder how far into the life did he make it with the memoir. Man if he was able to get to 1989 I would be happy.

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

That quote is a bit odd because she has told exactly the same thing in connection with the recording of All My Dreams. Maybe she have them mixed up? I don't hear Lisa on We Can F**k. Do you?

Can U post that where she was talking about the recording of All My Dreams?
.
Why would it be odd? If Prince somehow connected Lisa with Bette Davis, then for him to want her to shadow Bette Davis on other songs is not far fetched.
.
Who was it that Prince wanted Andy Allo to watch/study/express?

That would be Betty Davis, wife of Miles Davis and a funk/soul legend in her own right.

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

That quote is a bit odd because she has told exactly the same thing in connection with the recording of All My Dreams. Maybe she have them mixed up? I don't hear Lisa on We Can F**k. Do you?

Can U post that where she was talking about the recording of All My Dreams?
.
Why would it be odd? If Prince somehow connected Lisa with Bette Davis, then for him to want her to shadow Bette Davis on other songs is not far fetched.
.
Who was it that Prince wanted Andy Allo to watch/study/express?

The interview was published in VIBE in april 2009. Can't find an active link.

Toban said:

Vashtix said:

As I said earlier there will always be camp Susannah and camp Vanity but The Beautiful Ones is as Prince said it was - he was not a 20 something or for that matter 30 something foolish man. In 2015 Prince was a mature, seasoned man of 50 something and for whatever reason he started getting really real. His lyrics too- (The Breakdown, Home) if you will accept that.

.

Prince knew as a mature, seasoned 50 something, what he was saying in that 2015 interview. He was tired of people saying things he did not mean and respectfully I got the feeling when he approached subject of the The Beautiful Ones. He said what , when, who and why it was about Vanity.

.

I am not discounting Susannah or what she shared with Prince but Prince spoke of who The Beautiful Ones was for twice within months and he was not messing around in Australia when he sang The Beautiful Ones. It was real and not a - get back, clap back, revenge.

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The thing is even when Prince said what the song was- it is disputed. It is as if no one wants to validate this man outside of their own mental construct of what they thought of him. He was a grown azz man. He knew what went down in his own mind for a song. Much respect to the Melvoins, Alex Hahn, Lisa, Susan Rodgers and all the Susannah crew but this one song - can belong to Vanity and they can go on and do what they have done all these years and give Susannah whatever else they want and need to give.

.

It came as a suprise to many that Prince said much of what he said in that 2015 article quoted in this thread and the Piano and Mic concerts when things got real.

I realized that much of what I thought was real due to Alex Hahn, the Melvoins, Lisa and Susan Rodgers was their story, their construct but they did not know all of Prince. He was complex and clearly him sending a song to listen to did not mean- I wrote it for you. After 30 plus years I am sure it came as a zinger but it is as I believe Prince said it is- TBO is for Vanity . He was losing her to Motown i.e. Apples to Morris- same/same.

.

As I said before I am waiting for them to say PR part Apples played was really about Susannah. I am serious and please do not take offense .I respect the Melvoins and Susannah and Lisa and Susan Rodgers and their place in Prince's life but this one they need to let go. Let it be. Let it stand as Prince said months prior to his death and give enough respect as a man to know his own mind.

.

.

A thought...

There really shouldn't be a camp where Denise is concerned. They had a relationship that evolved and took on many forms over the years.

Furthermore, Denise wasn't just in contact with only Prince over the years but also with the "other women."

His significance to her is overwhelmingly evident in her past and in her everyday life.

Her significance to him I thought was evident to all, but if it isn't I feel no need to agrue or debate anything I share.

That being said.

.

Back in 1999, I recall reading a letter to DeBorah, dated December 1983, that she had tucked inside the cover of a book of photographs from that same holiday season. The letter was from her older sister, the photos were of that sister enjoying the holiday season with their mother, grandmother and others including their sister Denise/Vanity and one of Denise’s friends. She had made written description on the backs of most, if not all, of the photos and within the body of letter she also wrote about Denise’s frame of mind during the visit. I don’t remember her exact words in the letter, but they had something to do with her mood being down and her still not being over him.

.

I'm still honeymooning in the Yucatan and I will not be calling DeBorah for the letter, I did bring my computer, but I have poor connection and very little time while touring the Mayan ruins.

.

With regard to Purple Rain Denise writes “Most of the songs written spelled out our strange relationship.”

.

I wonder how many other women back then could also relate to his lyrics at that time?

So why even argue the issue of inspiration as if it were a singularly unique experience.

From a poet’s point of view, I can tell you, it isn’t.

.

.

Why ask why?

Do we really need to know the set of circumstances

that happened in a particular order

to move that moment to the next.

Does it now make some difference to the audience,

to the Artist, to the Muse and or to how we now listen the music.

If it does, does it mean that you’re a poet, a romantic, a fanatic

or just curious?

.

His muses have been real people with real feelings.

His snippets of "their lives" that have sadly now come to fully encapsulated them.

Theses incomplete mosaics tied to and driving feelings without the benefit of the original “why.”

Her-story has been lyrically literally expose to the world…

and told only from his (history) side.

.

Poetically Speaking...

What many take for granted and don’t keep in mind

is that The Artist has taken one frame of one moment in time.

That it is also another’s mused memory set on loop that they’ve been forced to re-live, to rewind…

And that those who insistent upon knowing the reason and intent of an abstract

should instead be focus on what is derived from the divining the divine.

And that it is possible to do so.

.

Hi TOB,

So much to take in from your post. I will attempt to respond.

.

Denise has fans; those who for whatever reason champion her as a pop culture trendsetter, entertainer, evangelist, and a woman of courage. In my opinion, she was a true Pop Culture Icon and seems to get pushed aside and many times ignored, belittled or simply made fun of in books about Prince and/ or by others who realize what validating her as legitimate “muse” really means.

.

Her validation as a muse for the Beautiful Ones does not discount in any way ANY of the women or men Prince associated with on various levels. Her validation does not discount ANY of the romantic liaisons Prince had with anyone. Denise/Vanity being acknowledged and championed as muse needs to stop being pushed aside. I feel her presence in Prince’s life at a certain time resulted in some of his greatest hits. THIS IS WHY THERE is a debate because there are those of another camp who really want someone else to be seen as solely as an inspiration for Prince during the period of time in the 80s . Prince himself has let us know that was not to be the case. These persons have controlled the narrative for decades until Prince began to speak honestly and openly the last few years of his life.

.

I used the word camp and in this case the definition from Merriam Webster: a group of persons; especially : a group engaged in promoting or defending a theory, doctrine, position, or person (2) : an ideological position. There are 2 camps for The Beautiful Ones. Those who believe Prince ( who wrote the song) i.e. Vanity Camp and those who believe others who created the narrative, allowed it to go on for years and continue to perpetuate it although Prince himself dispelled the myth i.e. Susannah Camp.

.

I understood Denise was in contact with people men and women alike from the Purple Circle; she conducted interviews confirming there was no bad blood but a camaraderie between them all . I am not trying to say people were or are at odds not getting on with one another.

.

I have no information as you have but I believe Prince and Denise grew into dear friends over the decades. I see them as twin flames as I stated before and these people are not always romantic but people whose lives mirror/parallel our own as we travel our route of life.

.

You stated”

With regard to Purple Rain Denise writes “Most of the songs written spelled out our strange relationship.”

.

I wonder how many other women back then could also relate to his lyrics at that time?

So why even argue the issue of inspiration as if it were a singularly unique experience.

From a poet’s point of view, I can tell you, it isn’t.

Purple Rain as we all know was about basically the players from triple threat tour; Vanity and Prince were together back then and Appollonia was playing Vanity. It is what it is- and before peeps beat me up over this- I am speaking a small sliver of time- Prince had decades of work. If other women found their story in the lyrics that is what makes art wonderful; it speaks to us all where we are at but that does not mean we are all the inspiration/muse for the art.

.

The music and inspiration was what it was and yes there were many women but the woman who ignited that I am going to put myself out there and say Vanity. It was their relationship for all the weirdness, craziness, eccentricities – it captivated. We are here in 2017 discussing , dissecting, debating and some discounting because it resulted in such genius that spawned international interest.

That Rolling Stone cover I think is what brought the masses to wanting more of those 2 Beautiful Ones and it took on a life of its own.

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Can U post that where she was talking about the recording of All My Dreams?
.
Why would it be odd? If Prince somehow connected Lisa with Betty Davis, then for him to want her to shadow Betty Davis on other songs is not far fetched.
.
Who was it that Prince wanted Andy Allo to watch/study/express?

The interview was published in VIBE in april 2009. Can't find an active link.

looks like she wasn't talking about that but like I said, in general, he wanted her to do some stuff like Betty Davis

Lisa: The Fairlight was just inspiration for a writer like Prince – for all of us. There were flute sounds, wind sounds, voice samples, hand clap sounds. We would just build these songs around it.

"All My Dreams” is arguably the highlight of Dream Factory. You can hear influences from jazz to 1930's Hollywood musicals within the framework of that track. This was a pretty ambitious track.

Wendy: It reminded me of classic Kid Creole and The Coconuts. Prince had this cool sort of personality when he was singing it. One track he sang through a megaphone and the other track was a clean track and he mixed the two. And Lisa and I were doing these crazy background vocals.

Lisa: Prince would tell us when we would be doing background vocals, “Sing like you are Betty Davis.” If we weren’t in the studio we would watch old black and white films and that whole “Puttin’ On The Ritz” era.

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

according to this Lisa Coleman is on it too

http://www.startribune.com/revolution-keyboardist-shares-untold-stories-from-prince-s-soon-to-be-reissued-purple-rain/428738003/

“We Can [Bleep]”

This song grew out of a Los Angeles jam session involving Coleman’s brother, David Coleman, playing an oud, a Middle Eastern stringed instrument.

“This was when we were moving onto [the next album] ‘Around the World in a Day.’ Prince was really taken with David at the time. My brother was very schooled in Arabic and Middle Eastern music. Prince was piqued by someone who knew part of a language he wasn’t familiar with.

“David’s groove brought out Prince’s favorite thing — funky. He thought Middle Eastern music was very sexy. He married a belly dancer after that.

“The words were pretty silly. Prince was telling me to sing like Bette Davis.”

That quote is a bit odd because she has told exactly the same thing in connection with the recording of All My Dreams. Maybe she have them mixed up? I don't hear Lisa on We Can F**k. Do you?

Yes, That sounds like Jill breaking away and doing the wild screaming part and Lisa & Wendy continuing the harmonizing part.
U can easily hear all of them on there.

If U listen to tracks (released & unreleased) with Lisa's vocals then listen back...

I'm also reminded of Take Me With U, that we know Lisa Coleman & Jill Jones were on vocally but neither readily standsout.

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

That quote is a bit odd because she has told exactly the same thing in connection with the recording of All My Dreams. Maybe she have them mixed up? I don't hear Lisa on We Can F**k. Do you?

Yes, That sounds like Jill breaking away and doing the wild screaming part and Lisa & Wendy continuing the harmonizing part.
U can easily hear all of them on there.

If U listen to tracks (released & unreleased) with Lisa's vocals then listen back...

I'm also reminded of Take Me With U, that we know Lisa Coleman & Jill Jones were on vocally but neither readily standsout.

There seems to be only one female voice troughout most of the song. Whether it's Jill or Lisa I'm not able to tell. I don't hear Wendy at all. The wild screaming? Do you mean around 5:51? I think that's Prince-

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yes, That sounds like Jill breaking away and doing the wild screaming part and Lisa & Wendy continuing the harmonizing part.
U can easily hear all of them on there.

If U listen to tracks (released & unreleased) with Lisa's vocals then listen back...

I'm also reminded of Take Me With U, that we know Lisa Coleman & Jill Jones were on vocally but neither readily standsout.

There seems to be only one female voice troughout most of the song. Whether it's Jill or Lisa I'm not able to tell. I don't hear Wendy at all. The wild screaming? Do you mean around 5:51? I think that's Prince-

the voice that breaks away from the harmonizing ahhhh ah ahhhh ah ahhhh ah ahh ah ah ah ahhh

the one that is going higher is Jill.

The harmonizing is clearly Wendy & Lisa

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

There seems to be only one female voice troughout most of the song. Whether it's Jill or Lisa I'm not able to tell. I don't hear Wendy at all. The wild screaming? Do you mean around 5:51? I think that's Prince-

the voice that breaks away from the harmonizing ahhhh ah ahhhh ah ahhhh ah ahh ah ah ah ahhh

the one that is going higher is Jill.

The harmonizing is clearly Wendy & Lisa

At what point in the song? The aaaah goes on for quite a bit.

OldFriends4Sale said:

--Geez, he was not being paranoid he was being sarcastic because of her ridiculous comments. He had deals in place and who knows maybe we would have had some vault material on Tidal. Everybody was speculating on what to do with his property and speaking as if he was already dead. I am sure it pissed him off and I am glad he got his say.

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Naw I don't think keeping Prince in the 1980s has anything to do with it.

The Ebony article was troubling to me. I wish I never read that. The paranoid comment about Susan Rogers wanting to take over the Vault or something like that was just not 'rational'. There were some other things that was not 'truthful' in my opinion.

.

For example I celebrated that he was a 50 something year old man, vs many other fans who went over the top saying 'he never ages' 'he looks as young as he did in 1981' etc which wasn't realistic nor was it a helpful thing for anyone whose looks was heavily a part of his career. To become older and have to reconcile that is hard enough. To have fans not be realistic and realize he could have have a little work done and he wears make up and there is also photoshopping in photos.

.

Prince though has always had the opportunity to speak his own story. No one ever denied him that.
I think it was maybe 2009 or during that 3yr stretch of him not releasing an album, that I wanted him to start writing a memoir. Oh do U remember all the fans that were so uptight that he hadn't released an album quickly? how antsy people were that 2-3yrs was going by and no album? I thought it was a good thing for him to take some time and not rush out easy songs. AoA was just not my cup of tea though.

--Geez, he was not being paranoid he was being sarcastic because of her ridiculous comments. He had deals in place and who knows maybe we would have had some vault material on Tidal. Everybody was speculating on what to do with his property and speaking as if he was already dead. I am sure it pissed him off and I am glad he got his say.

geez it was paranoid. Susan Rogers wasn't going to do anything. But maybe he should have hired her to. Nothing legalized, no will. Susan Rogers is the one that started the Vault in the 80s, because she say a need to protect the music.

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

the voice that breaks away from the harmonizing ahhhh ah ahhhh ah ahhhh ah ahh ah ah ah ahhh

the one that is going higher is Jill.

The harmonizing is clearly Wendy & Lisa

At what point in the song? The aaaah goes on for quite a bit.

Not the harmonizing voice.
You know what harmonizing is right(I don't mean that in a smart way)

Harmonizing is to blend voices not to be distinct.

The other voice that is doing the 'orgasmic' ahhha ah ahhhh is not Prince's voice.

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

At what point in the song? The aaaah goes on for quite a bit.

Not the harmonizing voice.
You know what harmonizing is right(I don't mean that in a smart way)

Harmonizing is to blend voices not to be distinct.

The other voice that is doing the 'orgasmic' ahhha ah ahhhh is not Prince's voice.

If it's the high pitched screams in the right channel (when listening with headphones) around 5:50, then it's Prince. But maybe you are thinking of something else? Anyway - I suppose one could ask Jill. You got her number, right?

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Not the harmonizing voice.
You know what harmonizing is right(I don't mean that in a smart way)

Harmonizing is to blend voices not to be distinct.

The other voice that is doing the 'orgasmic' ahhha ah ahhhh is not Prince's voice.

If it's the high pitched screams in the right channel (when listening with headphones) around 5:50, then it's Prince. But maybe you are thinking of something else? Anyway - I suppose one could ask Jill. You got her number, right?

Yeah, and her email. Thank U.
Actually I did talk to her about certain songs, Chocolate and this one already.
She talked about how she would sing underneath Prince's vocals like on Take Me With Me

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

If it's the high pitched screams in the right channel (when listening with headphones) around 5:50, then it's Prince. But maybe you are thinking of something else? Anyway - I suppose one could ask Jill. You got her number, right?

Yeah, and her email. Thank U.
Actually I did talk to her about certain songs, Chocolate and this one already.
She talked about how she would sing underneath Prince's vocals like on Take Me With Me

Which I think is what she's doing here.

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Yeah, and her email. Thank U.
Actually I did talk to her about certain songs, Chocolate and this one already.
She talked about how she would sing underneath Prince's vocals like on Take Me With Me

Which I think is what she's doing here.

but the carry up on something like that would be to hard to duplicate.
Easy if the person is just singing, or maybe even a shout, but that quick ascension of wild vocals I don't think.

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

Which I think is what she's doing here.

but the carry up on something like that would be to hard to duplicate.
Easy if the person is just singing, or maybe even a shout, but that quick ascension of wild vocals I don't think.

I'm not talking about the scream, if that's what you mean. I'm talking about the rest of the song.

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

but the carry up on something like that would be to hard to duplicate.
Easy if the person is just singing, or maybe even a shout, but that quick ascension of wild vocals I don't think.

I'm not talking about the scream, if that's what you mean. I'm talking about the rest of the song.

Well I was originally talking about the vocals hearing 3 different female voices and showing U that there are more than 2 voices by the 1 that began going higher. The other to remaining in harmony yet still you can hear one in more of a low soprano and the other in a higher alto

.

Prince's singing is clear. If there are someone's vocals underneath him, it could be.

OldFriends4Sale said:

paulludvig said:

I'm not talking about the scream, if that's what you mean. I'm talking about the rest of the song.

Well I was originally talking about the vocals hearing 3 different female voices and showing U that there are more than 2 voices by the 1 that began going higher. The other to remaining in harmony yet still you can hear one in more of a low soprano and the other in a higher alto

.

Prince's singing is clear. If there are someone's vocals underneath him, it could be.

I asked Jill and she says it her and Lisa on WCF.

OldFriends4Sale said:

No one has every said it was anyone but Susan Moonsie.

OldFriends4Sale said:

--I think this proves that Lisa is a little clueless. Bette Davis the actress was not known as a singer. Bette Davis the singer was funk/Rock singer. Mrs. Davis even had a song called Nasty Girl. I always thought the whole idea of Vanity Six came from Bette Davis the singer not the actresses. Remember Lisa said she did not know who Madonna was in 85.

A
[Edited 6/26/17 5:14am]

paulludvig said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Well I was originally talking about the vocals hearing 3 different female voices and showing U that there are more than 2 voices by the 1 that began going higher. The other to remaining in harmony yet still you can hear one in more of a low soprano and the other in a higher alto

.

Prince's singing is clear. If there are someone's vocals underneath him, it could be.

I asked Jill and she says it her and Lisa on WCF.

See Jill's instagram post about Wonderful Ass. She is confirming that this song was about Vanity. I am telling you the Melvoin's and Lisa are going to get caught in some half-truths.

---

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

I side with Prince as well about the song being about Vanity's character. But I also believe there is truth 2 the Susannah part. That was the news since 1984/85. And Prince never refuted it, until he was upset with her. This remember is the man that 'never looks back' and doesn't understand why people have to celebrate anniversaries and such. Also the man that said the Time was Morris's band and Morris fired Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis... It must be the truth right? Since Prince said it.

.

I was listening 2 When Doves Cry... and this is another example. Now for the sake of the movie Prince wrote the song and obviously the inspirations would be ? the love interest for the movie(written on March 1st 1984) so would that be Vanity or Apollonia? Was Vanity gone at this time? Manic Monday was recorded with Prince & Apollonia 6 in February, and the other inspirations would be the Father and the Mother and possibly the Revolution, maybe even Billy. But again word out of the camp is that Susan Moonsie(Vanity/Apollonia 6) was the real life inspiration.
.
Can it be both? Of course.

No one has every said it was anyone but Susan Moonsie.

I guess I'm in a small group of people who think the majority of songs for the movie were about Vanity- including WDC. It was said that one reason Vanity left Prince was because he was still seeing Susan. Also, the timing of WDC fits the time frame of when Vanity left. Susan was still around awhile longer after Vanity left, even being part of Apollonia 6. I could be wrong but it doesn't make sense to be about her.

purplegirl00 said:

laurarichardson said:

OldFriends4Sale said: No one has every said it was anyone but Susan Moonsie.

I guess I'm in a small group of people who think the majority of songs for the movie were about Vanity- including WDC. It was said that one reason Vanity left Prince was because he was still seeing Susan. Also, the timing of WDC fits the time frame of when Vanity left. Susan was still around awhile longer after Vanity left, even being part of Apollonia 6. I could be wrong but it doesn't make sense to be about her.

The story which I believe was in DMSR was that Susan decided to leave after the PR project was completed and promotion for A6 was done which she did do.

Susan supposely let Prince know this as the filiming was getting underway and he then went and wrote the song.