JudasLChrist said:

paulludvig said:

JudasLChrist said:

Prince's "bluesy acoustic number"" was literally that: It was 1-3-5 blues. A music framework that has been repeated millions of times, and which he is definitely not the author of. Mark Brown literally wrote the arrangement for KISS, did the synths and the drums, and directed the background vocal arrangement. Prince took what Mark did, added guitar and his own vocal, and that was it. Mark Brown LITERALLY wrote the music for KISS. It's indisputable.

You mean BrownMark wrote SOME of the music? Or some of the instrumental parts?

Bitch don't follow me around.

paulludvig said:

crimesofparis said:

In Mark's defense, he might have said "did the Music" rather than "wrote the music". I can't remember which. "Did the music" might imply arrangement and accompaniment.

Thanks for the point. Whether or not, Judas wants to admit it, the lyrics and melody over basic chord progression is what the song is..the style of the song, the arrangement etc are both Brown and Prince. Brown should get a great deal of credit for arranging the song so that it was funky, but Prince's vocal interpretation, lyrics, basic melody, and even bits of guitar should not be discounted. They deserve co-writing credits.

crimesofparis said:

paulludvig said:

You mean BrownMark wrote SOME of the music? Or some of the instrumental parts?

I generally get the feeling you're not a songwriter. There are several elements to recorded music. There's the song, and there's the recording. That's why GRAMMYs have a category for song of the year and record of the year. Record of the year is what you listen to -- how does it sound as it comes through your ears. Guitar, bass (or lack thereof), effects, vocalist, etc. That's the part Mark had a hand in. The song is the words, and structure on paper. In this case, it's a VERY standard blues progression. BTW I'm pretty sure you can't copyright a chord progression like that. That's what Prince wrote: words and melody over chord progression. If Mark didn't change those elements then technically he didn't write the song. The arrangement / recording, on the other hand, he did have a hand in. However, usually people don't get writing credits for production. That's not to say that part isn't important because it absolutely is. Sometimes they do for arrangements if they're unique. For example, a woman I know wrote her own arrangement for "How Great Thou Art," which sits in the public domain. She was able to get a copyright on her arrangement despite the song being in the public domain and successfully sued a film for stealing the arrangement for a trailer even though the song is in public domain. Copyright law. Woooof.

purplerabbithole said:

In Mark's defense, he might have said "did the Music" rather than "wrote the music". I can't remember which. "Did the music" might imply arrangement and accompaniment.

Thanks for the point. Whether or not, Judas wants to admit it, the lyrics and melody over basic chord progression is what the song is..the style of the song, the arrangement etc are both Brown and Prince. Brown should get a great deal of credit for arranging the song so that it was funky, but Prince's vocal interpretation, lyrics, basic melody, and even bits of guitar should not be discounted. They deserve co-writing credits.

I certainly don't disagree! There's a reason that production-heavy genres of music (like hip-hop or a lot of modern pop) give writing credits to producers. Some producers won't even cut a song unless the original songwriter deals them into the split. I guess whether or not you're bothered by the phrase "wrote the music" vs. "did the music" depends on your definition of "music." Is it just the bare-bones song as NARAS defines it, or the fully produced track?

purplerabbithole said:

In Mark's defense, he might have said "did the Music" rather than "wrote the music". I can't remember which. "Did the music" might imply arrangement and accompaniment.

Thanks for the point. Whether or not, Judas wants to admit it, the lyrics and melody over basic chord progression is what the song is..the style of the song, the arrangement etc are both Brown and Prince. Brown should get a great deal of credit for arranging the song so that it was funky, but Prince's vocal interpretation, lyrics, basic melody, and even bits of guitar should not be discounted. They deserve co-writing credits.

crimesofparis said:

paulludvig said: I generally get the feeling you're not a songwriter. There are several elements to recorded music. There's the song, and there's the recording. That's why GRAMMYs have a category for song of the year and record of the year. Record of the year is what you listen to -- how does it sound as it comes through your ears. Guitar, bass (or lack thereof), effects, vocalist, etc. That's the part Mark had a hand in. The song is the words, and structure on paper. In this case, it's a VERY standard blues progression. BTW I'm pretty sure you can't copyright a chord progression like that. That's what Prince wrote: words and melody over chord progression. If Mark didn't change those elements then technically he didn't write the song. The arrangement / recording, on the other hand, he did have a hand in. However, usually people don't get writing credits for production. That's not to say that part isn't important because it absolutely is. Sometimes they do for arrangements if they're unique. For example, a woman I know wrote her own arrangement for "How Great Thou Art," which sits in the public domain. She was able to get a copyright on her arrangement despite the song being in the public domain and successfully sued a film for stealing the arrangement for a trailer even though the song is in public domain. Copyright law. Woooof.

I credit Prince for writing the song. My original point was that there should be no conflict with what Mark claims about what he did with it.

no one said any of this shit BEFORE he was gone....

JudasLChrist said:

I credit Prince for writing the song. My original point was that there should be no conflict with what Mark claims about what he did with it.

It is for those who can't help but feel that any sort of influence or collaberative effort diminishes Prince's genius.

It doesn't, but try getting them to consider otherwise.

luvsexy4all said:

no one said any of this shit BEFORE he was gone....

what shit are you talking about.
Be careful, you might expose yourself for not being informed.

Most of this stuff was talked about while Prince was alive.

The stuff about Purple Rain, and Kiss. Kiss especially was talked about in full lengths by David Z. Mazarati and Brown Mark and I think Susan Rogers talked enough about it to know the process.

So what are you talking about that was not talked about while Prince was alive?

Jesse Johnson Morris Day Dez Dickerson & Lisa Coleman talked about the Time recording sessions

What are you talking about?

Reciprocity said:

babynoz said:

pnv said:

Reciprocity said:

I think Prince was being himself from jump. He was Prince who many loved and followed before Wendy was an idea. She and her sister have woven tales to make themselves more important and I will add Susan Rodgers to it as Susan Rodgers stans for the Melvoins.

Prince would have been Prince no matter if Wendy or Susannah ever stepped foot in his world.

I am sick of both of them.

I'm sick too!!! Wendy and Susannah are always on some crazy "we made Prince who he is " sh%&! Prince was awesome before they even came into the fold. A musical genius from birth! They wouldn't be saying anything if Prince was here!! They have no credibility with me. They're always trying to take credit for everything. So pleazzzee do not believe the hype!!!!

there is medicine for that sickness.

Stop clicking and reading and believing stuff not said
Everything you've said is exaggerations and flame posts.
And I doubt they care if they don't have credibility with you.

When someone says 'they ALWAYS...' you already know the person is making it up.

babynoz said:


I agree. There is a general tendency of The Revolution and their stans to exaggerate their influence but Wendy in particular can't seem to stop herself from being excessively mouthy. She doesn't mean any harm but does not know when to shut up.

Girl, this feels not-so-vaguely misogynist.

"Mouthy."

Ok...

rogifan said:

There's just something about it that rubs me the wrong way. Same with when she was talking about other musicians he played with and how The Rev was different. I'm sure she doesn't mean any disrespect to anyone else but to me it does come across as if she's placing The Rev as a more important part of his career. I'm sure I'm reading too much into her comments but that's how I feel.

Maybe ask yourself: why does it make me feel this way?

Really really question what specifically causes you to rub the wrong way.

What PRECISELY has she said that has caused it.

Then ask yourself, is what she is saying different from what I am hearing or choosing to hear? What am I inserting in this process?

Becaues you say so yourself, you're sure she doesn't mean disrespect, and you might be reading into her comments.

Especially when the overwhelming narrative I've seen attempts to cast Wendy as negative despite actual and factual quotation, and at times direct lies such as saying she has said shit she has not o

Some girls on here are pressed about needing to frame her as saying she damn near wrote the entirety of Sign O' The Times and Purple Rain.

If you're interested about questioning this, maybe actually really read her words and watch her interviews.

paulludvig said:

At one point she also said she wrote Purple Rain. Obviously not true, but there you go.

.

You've mentioned that before. I've never read that quote. Please put up or shut up, because other than saying she added to it (which is indisputable), I've never read or seen anything more. Simply put, stop lying about it please or come with some proof.

.

It seems that those that keep being annoyed by Wendy Melvoin have trouble interpreting what they read. Literacy rates seem to be going down worldwide, I suppose this is one aspect of it.

Wendy said the same thing when he was alive. Folks too sensitive in the wake of losing him.

I can't believe this conversation is still going on.

I agree

GeminiDME said:

I can't believe this conversation is still going on.

mediumdry said:

Simply put, stop lying about it please or come with some proof.

.

It eems that those that keep being annoyed by Wendy Melvoin have trouble interpreting what they read. Literacy rates seem to be going down worldwide, I suppose this is one aspect of it.

Some people's claims to be only about the facts and claims that they aren't prejudiced is straight up bullshit sometimes. They can't help but lie because they really need to try to discredit and diminish.

It's pretty transparent though. Which is why they can't offer any proof about these so called statements Wendy made.

If you see em, offer them a sip. They are THIRSTY.

[Edited 4/28/17 19:35pm]

interesting comments & iinteresting back-and-forth.

.

I acknowledge/sort of understand why some think Wendy is embellishing history or claiming extra credit for the collaboration in the 80s. Wendy has always been - for lack of a better word right now - "outspoken" in terms of giving her opinion. As I understand it, this "quality" of Wendy endeared her to Prince as she wasn't "starstruck" when she joined this ascending ensemble.

.

absolutely NO DOUBT - Prince is/was a once-in-forever singular talent. he was going to be amazing no matter who he had around him. Prince is 1 of the very few people in this world who can actually say he lived up to his potential (granted - Prince was never "perfect".. & I personally believe that had he not "sabotaged" his career during his "fight" with WB in the mid-90s.. he might have been still "bigger" than he was..)

.

so, as great as Prince was as a fully self-contained musician/singer/composer/producer..

Wendy Melvoin & Lisa Coleman absolutely did add a unique element to Prince's music during the time they collaborated. they added.. "color" & "depth" to his music

(again, for lack of better words..)

very likely, most people (hard-core/long-time fans & casual/more recent fans alike) would say that Prince's most "creative" period was between about 1984 thru 1987.

I happen to agree with that assertion.

.

Bobby Z was a "functional enough" drummer for Prince; Matt Fink was a synth wiz who more than capably replicated and enhanced Prince's sound (especially the early 80s music); BrownMark was (as Prince essentially implied) Prince's equal as a bassist - this of course says much.

.

as much as those 3 contributed to Prince's music (live music, anyway)..

for the most part Prince didn't collaborate with any of them extensively.

for whatever reason, he didn't.

for whatever reason, he connected/vibed & collaborated more with Wendy & Lisa.

the results of these collaborations are almost uniformly OUTSTANDING.

.

it's anyone's choice to say they like or dislike Wendy &/or Lisa

& their obvious contributions to Prince's music at the PEAK of his musical prowess..

yet their contributions therein can't be denied.

.

lastly, I agree with what many have said

(I think I read some members of the Revolution - likely Wendy herself)

about that band:

that the Revolution was the last or only band

that Prince had

in which each member was "equal" to Prince.

the NPG - they definitely had some "muscle" to them music-wise

his late-90s band(s) was(were) sharp too

I tuned out from almost all Prince's music after 2000

so I can't really speak on any of those bands or band members..

but I firmly believe - & I am certain I am not the only 1 who firmly believes this - that

The Revolution

was Prince's most distinctive (& dare I say "influencial"?) band.

.

I'll just leave this here....

You can count the female guitar players in Princes bands on less than one hand.

So some people are 'annoyed' lolol whatever.

terrig said:

I'll just leave this here....

You can count the female guitar players in Princes bands on less than one hand.

So some people are 'annoyed' lolol whatever.

I kind of think... that's innacurate. Are you excluding bass guitar players too?

GuyBros said:

terrig said:

I'll just leave this here....

You can count the female guitar players in Princes bands on less than one hand.

So some people are 'annoyed' lolol whatever.

I kind of think... that's innacurate. Are you excluding bass guitar players too?

.

Guitar and bass (even bass guitar) are quite distinct instruments. They have some things in common, from construction to technique of playing, but functionally they are very distinct in pop music. The same could be said for rhythm and lead guitar, by the way.

Y'all are tripping.

.

.

I posted this a long time ago, but apparently it bears repeating.

.

.

Read it slowly, y'all, cuz I know some of you are just foaming at the mouth.

.

.

.

A) Prince was a musical genius in his own right, before, during and after meeting Wendy & Lisa.

.

.

B) Wendy & Lisa helped contribute to his creative output during the Revolution years via their collaboration with him. The results are some of his best work. (keyword: "SOME OF")

.

.

.

C) A and B are NOT MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE!!!!!!

I think it's C) that a lot of y'all don't seem to understand.

Geez......

[Edited 4/30/17 18:35pm]

If you see and here wendy talk (and she can talk), she is morphing into Carrie Fisher.

GuyBros said:

Girl, this feels not-so-vaguely misogynist.

"Mouthy."

Ok...

I'm not your fucking girl, I'm a grown woman and if you think that trying to label me is gonna shut down what I have to say, then you don't know me too well.

We can either go a few rounds or you can follow the rules and stick to the topic. "Hint" I am not the topic.

Those are your choices.....IDGAF either way.

SquirrelMeat said:

If you see and here wendy talk (and she can talk), she is morphing into Carrie Fisher.

Shhh....we have just learned that not being sufficiently worshipful is now considered misogynistic.



spelling.

[Edited 4/30/17 19:27pm]

babynoz said:

SquirrelMeat said:

If you see and here wendy talk (and she can talk), she is morphing into Carrie Fisher.

Shhh....we have just learned that not being sufficiently worshipful is now considered misogynistic.



spelling.

[Edited 4/30/17 19:27pm]

Hi babynoz!

babynoz said:

SquirrelMeat said:

If you see and here wendy talk (and she can talk), she is morphing into Carrie Fisher.

Shhh....we have just learned that not being sufficiently worshipful is now considered misogynistic.



spelling.

[Edited 4/30/17 19:27pm]

That's not it at all. We have problem on the Org where too many people love to talk shit and cast unsubstantiated mistrust and accusations against the women in Prince's life. Especially women he was particularly close to. This has helped to create a toxic envioronment, but now people are starting to call it out. Cause it's really stupid, and it's just inappropriate, and not acceptable behavior.

Carrie Fisher is rad, as is wendy, as is SqurrelMeat.