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Jason Shawhan

You wrote several songs for the still-unreleased Rebels project. Was that an instance of Prince calling upon you and Andre Cymone to write some songs with a certain feel, or more of finding a common thread in material that you'd already been working on?

It was more him giving us latitude to be ourselves creatively. Andre and I both came from a frontman background and The Rebels were supposed to be a vehicle for us to step out in a way we couldn't within the scope of the Prince "brand."

Putting aside the infamous L.A. gig opening for the Rolling Stones, what's the most insane thing you've ever seen or experienced onstage? And as mortifying as that first Stones show was, how did you find the overwhelming courage to do it again the second night? So much respect is due to you all.

The folklore surrounding those shows is fairly epic, especially regarding how things went down Day 1 versus Day 2. The shows took place with a day off in between, on Friday and Sunday, and we had a very different experience on the first show than the second. The response after the first song on the first day was something I'll never forget — the sound of 120,000 people cheering is almost overwhelming. In addition to rank and file fans, there were hundreds of Hell's Angels in the audience. They did not look favorably on a short black man wearing high heels, leg warmers, bikini underwear and a trenchcoat, singing in falsetto, on the Stones' stage, and they let us know, along with a few other similarly inclined individuals. They threw paper Coke cups and booed heartily, but they were outnumbered by those who cheered us. It was enough to rattle Prince, though, who exited the stage early and left the band onstage to fend for themselves. He left the stadium and went straight to the airport, returning to Minneapolis. Bill Graham, the promoter, got up onstage and cussed out the people he singled out as troublemakers, and he got booed. The word that went out between Friday and Sunday is that we had been booed off the stage, which was not true — Bill got booed, we just cut our set short. A station that broadcast live from the stadium misreported the booing thing, and the legend grew until Sunday, by which time thousands came to the show intent on running us out of town. In the interim, after attempts by both our managers and Mick Jagger to convince Prince to come back and do the second show, I was asked by management to call and talk to him. We talked for 45 minutes, and I convinced him to get on a plane and come back. It was a bit like landing on Normandy Beach on stage the second day, but we did our entire set and left on our terms — that was important to us.

The craziest thing I've ever seen on stage — and I've seen a lot — happened after I had left Prince and was touring as the opening act for Billy Idol on the Rebel Yell tour. We were doing a show in L.A., and I went out front after our set to watch Billy's show when I saw a guy climbing the PA stack on one side of the stage: a very high stack — at least 30 feet. He reached the top, stretched his arms triumphantly, then proceeded to stage dive from 30 feet up! Needless to say, it did not end well. Surprisingly, he was not killed, but he did not fly like an eagle ...

The difference between the 7" version and album version of "I Wanna Be Your Lover" is striking, with several minutes of deep disco jamming removed for the single. There have always been rumors that the album version was itself whittled down from an even longer take on what proved to be Prince's big breakthrough single. Can you confirm that there is, or at least was, a longer version of that track?

There were almost always longer versions of every song! On that one, the execs at WB who were also producers told Prince that it needed percussion, that it was too bare to go on that long — he refused. As I recall, the compromise was the edit.

One of the fascinating things about seeing footage or hearing material from the tours during your time with Prince is the way the two of you seem to evolve this unspoken way of allowing your guitar sounds to find their own space — it's a magical symbiosis, really. Dr. Fink's and Lisa's keyboards always seemed to be occupying separate places in the sound — it sounded amazing, but you can feel how they were playing in different sandboxes, if that's not too strained a metaphor. You and Prince, both playing guitar — the edges are rawer, and you're definitely playing on the same field. Was that a conscious process, or just something that evolved in rehearsals?

For Prince, the ultimate act of respect is for him to give you space to do what you do. I was fortunate enough to gain and keep his respect — as a result, he gave me space to do my thing. The fact that he gave me so much latitude to play in our shows speaks to the genuine respect he gave me as a guitar player. He willingly gave me room, especially when it came to soloing, to be who I was — not a clone of him, but to bring my own musical voice to the party. Those in the press often referred to me as "Prince's metal guitarist," but, in reality, Prince always thought of us as a rock band — he wanted me to shred.

Of all of the songs you've ever played onstage, which is the most fun to play around with?

As far as Prince songs go, by far it has to be "Bambi" — it's a pure Hendrixian guitar-fest. Nowadays, when I sit in with other folks from time to time, I have fun doing "Purple Rain," playing and singing.

You did so much to open up the dimension and dynamics of Prince's sound. Did you play specific rock, punk, or new wave material for him during your time with him? I don't think he could have gotten the particular crunchy almost-Farfisa funk of “Ronnie Talk 2 Russia” without having heard some of the underground sounds of the early '80s. Also, did you have anything to do with the still-unreleased track “No Call U” or the first version of “Tick Tick Bang” — they have that weird, rockabilly shred that stopped being a part of the mix post-1999.

I was continually bringing him those kinds of records and turning him on to bands. I would blast everything from Generation X "Dancing With Myself" to Spandau Ballet to early Def Leppard to L.A. bands like The Pop and 20/20. The rockabilly obsession was sparked by us seeing Stray Cats in London, before they came back to the States and broke. We were all blown away with them — the look, Brian Setzer's amazing sound, just the sheer authenticity of it. We started wearing pompadours immediately!

“1999” is one of those enduring songs that pops up all over the place. Have you ever been at the grocery store or some random public place and had “1999” come on, and just trip out on hearing your voice carrying the melody? I would imagine the guitar solo on “Little Red Corvette” might have a similar effect.

It happens all the time — I love the bizarre anonymity of it. It's always an odd kick to be standing in line at the post office or something and hear one of those songs, and know that people have no idea. Although sometimes, someone does happen to have a moment and realize that the guy on the record is in line with them at Kroger or whatever.

Speaking of “Little Red Corvette,” on the extended version of that track (the “Mayday! Mayday!” version), did Prince bring you into the studio for extra sounds and production, or was the new material all his doing?

He didn't bring me back in, but he always tracked lots of stuff with each tune that could end up being re-purposed and used later.

One of my favorite Minneapolis funk moments is the epic “Billy's Sunglasses.” The languorous groove is nice, and it's really cool to hear a sprawling jam gradually evolve into something tighter. Are there any jams like that floating around in the vault from the late '70s/early '80s period? It seems that such efforts might have been easier after Prince brought the Linn LM-1 in as one of his primary composing tools, but you never can tell ...

There is a huge walk-in vault at Paisley Park — and I'll bet they've expanded it considerably by now — with nothing but old master tapes in it. Undoubtedly there are now hard drives and other storage media of every successive format warehoused as well. The last time I was there, at least 25 years ago, there were hundreds and hundreds of hours of unreleased stuff in there — a good bit of which I had played on as well. I have no doubt his posthumous releases will make Elvis look like a piker ...

Are you a fan of the LM-1 drum machine?

It was a tool that served its purpose and led the way for other, better tools to be created. I was a bigger fan of the EMU Drumulator back in the day.

Was (the Vanity 6 track) “He's So Dull” ending up in National Lampoon's Vacation and on its soundtrack something that Warner made happen, or were you directly involved in the process? It's a historic track in that it's the first outside songwriting credit on any of the protege albums (barring some of the more fictional songwriting credits that often occurred with the 6s and Time records).

It was something our manager at the time, Steve Fargnoli, orchestrated at Prince's behest. It was a big deal that he was clearing a lane for me to do some things on my own, true to his word from our first conversation in the parking lot of Del's Tire Mart following my first audition for the band.

What was the process behind how (The Time's) “Wild and Loose,” “After Hi School,” “Cool,” and (Vanity 6's) “3x2=6” developed in the studio?

"Cool" and "Wild and Loose" both followed a template we initiated on the former — Prince called me on the phone with a song title, and about 15 minutes later, I called him back with lyrics based on his title. "After Hi School" was a song that I had written for my solo thing — Prince heard it and wanted to use it for The Time. The original version was actually more of an arena rock anthem. "3x2=6" was totally spontaneous — I was in the studio with him working on the Vanity 6 records, and he asked me to play drums on "3x2..."

When did you first know what was happening with “777-9311,” and how did you handle that very specific kind of stress? It's a very short list, the classic phone number songs, and there is honor in that. But that had to be a very special kind of annoying for you.

Prince called me from the studio and told me he was trying to come up with a phone number that rhymed to write a hook around, and he though of my home number. He played the groove for me over the phone, and I thought 2 things — one, this groove is just nasty; and, two, I wonder what's going to happen when this comes out. The minute the record was released, we started getting crank calls at all hours of the day and night: folks asking for Morris, or just saying "Yesss!" We changed our number within 48 hrs. ...

After your departure from Prince's band, how did you react to the offhanded way he addressed your departure in the “Extraloveable” outtake? It seemed like it could have been good-natured ribbing or meant as pointedly nasty; since Prince has very rarely let the public in on how his sense of humor is keyed, we may never know. (Speaking as a fan, it seems tacky, particularly since he chose to do so in one of his filthiest songs.)

My departure from the band was discussed and planned — I had the option of re-upping for an additional three years after the 1999 tour, or leaving with the full support of Prince and management to launch the solo career he and I agreed I would pursue at some point. The lyric was, as always, a calculated reference meant to provoke speculation — which it did, and still does.

Having been around during Gayle Chapman's alienation (and later, departure) from Prince's band due to nastiness in the material, did that affect you in your own religious awakening and reaction to the sexual theatre that comprised much of the Dirty Mind, Controversy and 1999 tours?

After having been "raised in the church" but opting out at age 16, I had a profound salvation experience on the Christmas break from the Dirty Mind tour in 1980. Unlike the classic "come to Jesus" testimony of the fallen rocker who finds himself in the gutter, drug-addled and penniless, and surrenders his or her life to Christ, mine was a mountaintop epiphany. I was doing everything I ever wanted to do, but found it hollow and unfulfilling. On Dec. 22, 1980, in the living room of my house on Castle Ave. in North St. Paul, Minn., at about 11:30 p.m., I had what I can only describe as a divine encounter, and, in a moment of time, recognized that it was the relationship with the living God, from Whom I had bolted, that I really needed, not attempting to become a guitar-playing god myself.

After that, I went back out on the road with a radically changed perspective, although I remained in the group for almost three more years. Eventually, it was the realization that the incongruity of who I needed to be and who I had to be as "the guy with the kamikaze headband" was changing me in ways that made me difficult to live with. Ultimately, when you know it's time to turn the page, nothing else matters but going out and doing what you are, as opposed to continuing to do what you've always done, what makes you famous, etc.

After dealing with 20-plus years of Warner Bros.' back-and-forthing, how did it feel when you were finally able to release “Modernaire” to the public in 2008? It was always one of the hidden gems of the Purple Rain experience — the instrumental version of “God” was on a UK 12”, the instrumental of “Possessed” and the extended parts of “Computer Blue” surfaced on bootlegs early on — but “Modernaire” was evasive. It's still a magnificent jam; a great blend of your sound and Prince's at that time.

It was like the feeling of untying an especially stubborn knot. This one just happened to take almost 20 years to undo ...

Did you have fun doing the Revolution reunions in 2012 and 2013?

We did them back home, in a very literal sense, at First Ave. They were both incredibly memorable, but the first was the most moving. It was the first time the hybrid line-up saw Wendy and I on stage together, along with Bobby Z, Dr. Fink, Brownmark, Lisa, and Eric Leeds. The most humbling and gratifying aspect was that the fans clearly saw what I called the Prince-less Revolution as an opportunity to have a moment with us sans the icon — the love, appreciation and respect they showed us was palpable and unforgettable. The next year, reuniting with Andre Cymone in addition to Matt and Bobby, as well as a very pregnant Maya Rudolph opening for us with her "Princess" routine — it was an amazing experience as well. Top it all off with our friend ?uestlove live-tweeting at both shows and doing a post-concert DJ set, the word fun doesn't even come close ...

Are you able to enjoy recordings of those live shows from the late '70s and early '80s, or does the nastiness color the memories of the experience?

Life is a grab bag, both an experience of joy and pain, sunshine and rain, so it would be foolish to discount the wonder on the basis of the silliness in my view.

Have you thought about doing an eBook or digital version of your book My Time With Prince?

We're looking into it as we speak ...

I'd also heard that you recently found the master tape, or a longer version, of “Modernaire” than the one on your double-disc retrospective from '08. Is this something we could expect to hear sometime soon?

All the remastered tracks for the "Dez-trospective" — the official, massively tongue-in-cheek title — were lost when a CD plant we used at one time went under, so we're planning to re-remaster the whole project and re-release it at some point.

http://www.nashvillescene.com/music/article/13056942/dez-dickerson-on-prince-purple-rain-and-the-most-insane-thing-hes-seen-on-stage

An eye opening interview. Thanks for sharing.

Interesting. So am I interpreting this correctly in that Dez wrote or co-wrote a lot of Prince/Time/Vanity stuff without getting credit, like being the Wendy & Lisa of pre-Purple Rain stuff?

Great interview, thanks for posting. To me the most interesting comment was that they saw Stray Cats and that led to all the rockabilly stuff and pompadours. If you guys haven't seen early footage of the Stray Cats, it's worth looking up on youtube. They are amazing.

This made my day thanks so much!

AWESOME interview! Thanks for posting.