Revolution said:

i don't care what you say, I am not buying GSC2000

Damn right

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Absolutely agree. Prince didn't see a difference with the protoge albums ('MINE!'), and I don't think we should look at them as lesser or seperate works either.

I want to disagree and agree. Some protege projects were a direct reflection of Prince (ie The Time, Family, Wendy and Lisa's solo projects, etc....I'm not listing them all). But some of them other cats... Especially within the last 15 years....I just don't know.

Everythig from the 80's....yes. It's crucial in understanding how his other albums came to be and how he reshaped what pop music was allowed to be at the time.

after the 80's - meh. Prince's dick made too many bad choices that werent worth my money loololol

Depends on what protege albums you're talking about.For example,obviously the Time albums are essential...but do we really think that the Carmen Elektra album is as important as Prince's own albums?

The only proteges I'm interested are the originals from the 80s, The Time, Vanity 6, Sheila E, The Family, Jill Jones, Madhouse, Mazarati, Wendy & Lisa......anyone beyond that I'm not into. Sorry.

[Edited 6/25/16 21:20pm]

PurpleBabied said:

IMO, albums like The Family, What Time Is It, The Glamorous Life and even Come 2 My House are as essential to any complete Prince collection as any of his solo albums (in some cases more so. Who would argue against "The Family" album being a more important record for Prince artistically than HNR Phase 1 and 2?).

Agree/disagree?

I think they're separate entities even if Prince just used them as a backup band with vocal cords. Otherwise where do you draw the line? Every single that blew up under someone else? I feel like if they're important artistically, they're strong enough projects and artists to stand alone in their own right. You could argue Janelle Monae was a Prince protegee, but she's distinct enough artistically that I don't see Electric Lady as an extension of the Prince oeuvre. I've been a Janelle Monae fan for a couple of years and Prince has nothing to do with it. Judith Hill seems real. Mononeon is distinct to me. If you actually buy a Sheila E record, it's because of her and not Prince's fingerprints.

Let us not speak nonsense. The OP was talking about full albums not albums with one or 2 Prince songs.

Some protege acts I like and some I do not. The Time, Sheila E, Judith Hill, Andy Allo, Tamar, and even some of Bria's songs I like a lot.

I cannot get into Jill, The Family, Mayte, Carmen, Ingrid, Mazerati, etc. I find them to have zero charisma and/or ghastly vocals.

MattyJam said:

IMO, albums like The Family, What Time Is It, The Glamorous Life and even Come 2 My House are as essential to any complete Prince collection as any of his solo albums (in some cases more so. Who would argue against "The Family" album being a more important record for Prince artistically than HNR Phase 1 and 2?). Agree/disagree? [Edited 6/24/16 6:01am]

The albums Prince was entirely, or nearly entirely responsible for are absolutely as important. As BoraBora said they bridge gaps, show us a more detailed evolution of a constant work in progress.

A lot of people tend to be confused by the fact that Prince does not sing on those records, but they are in the end the product of his mind and creativity just as much as the ones he sang on. Ignoring those records equals to ignoring about a third of Prince's canon (at least in terms of studio albums).

Evidently albums that features only one or 2 Prince songs are not what u are talking about so IDK why some people brought them up.

[Edited 6/25/16 9:58am]

SoulAlive said:

Depends on what protege albums you're talking about.For example,obviously the Time albums are essential...but do we really think that the Carmen Elektra album is as important as Prince's own albums?

Obviously Carmen Electra is one of Prince's weakest efforts ever, but nevertheless it is important because it exists. It totally bridges the gap between and Gold Nigga. Thematically it is in fact a feminine counterpoint to (both are basically sexually driven megalomaniac journeys), though obviously without either the lyrical nor musical magnificence of .

databank said:

PurpleBabied said:

I think they're separate entities even if Prince just used them as a backup band with vocal cords. Otherwise where do you draw the line? Every single that blew up under someone else? I feel like if they're important artistically, they're strong enough projects and artists to stand alone in their own right. You could argue Janelle Monae was a Prince protegee, but she's distinct enough artistically that I don't see Electric Lady as an extension of the Prince oeuvre. I've been a Janelle Monae fan for a couple of years and Prince has nothing to do with it. Judith Hill seems real. Mononeon is distinct to me. If you actually buy a Sheila E record, it's because of her and not Prince's fingerprints.

Let us not speak nonsense. The OP was talking about full albums not albums with one or 2 Prince songs.

It's not clear from the OP or the title that the discussion is only confined to protegees that had most or their entire albums produced and written by Prince.

Maybe it's because Prince was such a performer FIRST and his output as an artist is so much about the execution that many people are lukewarm on his production efforts under other people's names. (How many of you would sign up for Prince reading the phone book on the idea he'd read the purple out of directory assistance ?)

If this was a Missy Elliot/Babyface/CeeLo thread, her protegees wouldn't be getting so much static because Missy/Babyface/CeeLo was/is a producer for such a long time, and first.

Important to the "Prince as a producer collection"? Sure, maybe.

Important to "Prince as a genius?" Extremely debatable.

[Edited 6/25/16 10:10am]

PurpleBabied said:

databank said:

Let us not speak nonsense. The OP was talking about full albums not albums with one or 2 Prince songs.

It's not clear from the OP or the title that the discussion is only confined to protegees that had most or their entire albums produced and written by Prince.

Maybe it's because Prince was such a performer FIRST and his output as an artist is so much about the execution that many people are lukewarm on his production efforts under other people's names. (How many of you would sign up for Prince reading the phone book on the idea he'd read the purple out of directory assistance ?)

If this was a Missy Elliot/Babyface/CeeLo thread, her protegees wouldn't be getting so much static because Missy/Babyface/CeeLo was/is a producer for such a long time, and first.

Important to the "Prince as a producer collection"? Sure, maybe.

Important to "Prince as a genius?" Extremely debatable.

[Edited 6/25/16 10:10am]

I honestly find most of P's side projects as interesting and groundbreaking as their contemporary Prince albums conterparts, but I'll conceed they occasionally lacked a certain emotional intensity that also went with the Prince character/concept, i.e. he selected certain works to fit with his own persona and others to fit with a specific project or individual's own identity. Obviously Morris couldn't have sang The Beautiful Ones or Condition Of The Heart, and it would have been weird to have Chilli Sauce or Gigolos Get Lonely Too on a Prince album.

However I do not see Prince as a producer on those projects. As was debated before a producer is someone who brings the best out of a specific artist and adjust to their style. Prince was never a producer in that regard until Back In Time last year: whet he did was to cast people to fit a particular idea or concept he had in mind, hence the inevitable artistic breakups that followed with lots of those people when they wanted to do their thing (Prince wouldn't tell Sheila "OK, sure, do Sex Cymbal and release it on PP and I'll stay out of it", she had to fight her way out of his songs). Or at best he would give songs he had arready recorded that he felt would fit an artist's own style, but he wouldn't often write a song for a singer after a lenghty conversation with that singer regarding their artistic wishes (possible exceptions may have been Mavis and Chaka, who were already established, but in the end their work with Prince sound as much like Prince as anything else). Hell, Prince would even select which songs made the album or not and establish the tracklist without asking the artist (as confirmed by Paul, Carmen and MBN at least)!

This is why I do not really separate the side-projects from the "Prince" canon: they were not producer works at the service of others. They were Prince side projects. He could have released the whole lot under his own name + "featuring [vocalist/sax player]" and it wouldn't have made any difference outside of marketing and public perception!

It hurts me that some fans don't love The Family like I do.

I think that many of them are vital in Prince's catalog. Madhouse, The Time, Sheila E., NPG, Vanity6/Apollonia 6, The Family and probably a few others. Eric Leeds even said that The Family was basically a Prince album.

I'd also include a few others in there, but not because you may enjoy them, but because they were Prince stretching out a little bit and expanding his sound. I'd include Carmen's album, Chaka's album and a few of the more recent side albums.

This is what makes his career so amazing and at the same time it is what makes being a completist so tough for many of us.

madhouseman said:

I think that many of them are vital in Prince's catalog. Madhouse, The Time, Sheila E., NPG, Vanity6/Apollonia 6, The Family and probably a few others. Eric Leeds even said that The Family was basically a Prince album.

I'd also include a few others in there, but not because you may enjoy them, but because they were Prince stretching out a little bit and expanding his sound. I'd include Carmen's album, Chaka's album and a few of the more recent side albums.

This is what makes his career so amazing and at the same time it is what makes being a completist so tough for many of us.

I totally understand your pov from a completist standpoint but I'm the type who will not own any protege works if I can't stand their voices/persona.

I own a great many protege works, but I don't feel compelled to have everything.

FTR, I do own the Madhouse stuff.

HatrinaHaterwitz said:

Revolution said:

i don't care what you say, I am not buying GSC2000

Damn right

Y'all's loss!

BobGeorge909 said:

Sometimes important...usually not. Your collection will remain very representative sans Elixer and Child Of The Sun and whatever Carmen's album is called. I truly hope that these projects had motivations behind them other than catching some cootchie...but I unno...I seriously doubt it. It's a miracle for the recipient but something apparently so easy for P to whip out...a disc of beats...simple. I gotta say though...a couple, well..maybe one of trax off of Child of the sun I actually dig...ain't no place like you. Seeming not for anything Mayte brought to the table though. Sowee cutie pie. I adore her...but a musician she is not. [Edited 6/24/16 8:20am]

There is something greeat on all those albums - even the Carmen Electra disc. Its Prince.

gilliaj said:

The 80s protege albums are very good indeed, particularly Sheila E, The Time, and even Vanity 6. I would also include the Andy Allo and Bria Valente albums. They are all basically his work. The Bria album in particular is a strong piece of work that is criminally underrated. I haven't heard Judith Hill's album all the way through, but some of it sounds like Prince is all over it and sounds really good too.

Elixer is the most underrated protege album - good ear.

I have to confess I love a lot of things on Carmen Electra despite... Carmen Electra The tracks I dislike r the dance tracks (lame techno music, and that's from someone who's into electronic music), but the funk grooves are great.

Elixer is lovely, I never understood why so much hate for that one, it's just so delicate.

GCS 2000, Superconductor and Back In Time are really collaborations where Prince acted as an arranger and musician instead of composer, but he's all over the place and those records are definitely part of his canon.

Agree.

databank said:

Let us not speak nonsense. The OP was talking about full albums not albums with one or 2 Prince songs.

Totally feel what you're saying, databank, but then you get hit by "Love Thy Will Be Done," and I'm like....

MattyJam said:

It hurts me that some fans don't love The Family like I do.

their loss lol the Family album the band the music the album photos are Canon a work of art

I think Prince used the protege albums to try out different styles, styles that he sometimes incorporated into his own albums, As such they are very important. But I wish I had versions of the protege albums with Prince on vocals.

paulludvig said:

I think Prince used the protege albums to try out different styles, styles that he sometimes incorporated into his own albums, As such they are very important. But I wish I had versions of the protege albums with Prince on vocals.

I swear I tried to like some of them but the vocals sound like anemic cats in heat to me.

EVERYTHING the man was involved with from 1980-1988 is ESSENTIAL

one thing that I always found interesting: certain phrases that appeared on a Prince album or song would also appear on a protege album that came out around the same time.

Examples:

On "My Name Is Prince",Prince sings "I am funky....when it comes to funk,I am a junkie

On Carmen Elektra's album,she raps "I'm getting funky....as you know,as you know,I'm a party junkie"

Prince's "Erotic City" includes the line "maybe we can make some time"

Apollonia 6's "Sex Shooter" features the lyric "come on boy,let's make some time"

Definitely! Prince's legacy is VANITY 6, THE TIME, SHEILA E.

Those albums were extensions of PRINCE in his entirety in his prime.

i think any song that prince wrote the lyrics for says something about him and helps complete our picture of him, whoever he chose to sing it for him.

Any Prince collection that does not include Madhouse's 8 & 16 is incomplete. Just. Sayin'.