I wonder how they feel as Prince called out all his best drummers - Morris Day, Micheal B, John Blackwell, and SHeila E - on Ol SKool Company and left them out.
[Edited 3/30/09 10:36am]

Bobby Z is medicore at his best drumming. Kirk was a better drummer though and shame on prince for not giving kirk his props/

Brofie said:

Did he really ? Then why does he mention Mint Condition there ?

Brofie said:

He should have gone ahead an given a shout to all the drummers

If he gave one 2 Morris Day (who was never his drummer) he definately should have given one 2 Bobby Z who was there from the start

Prince had some complimentary things to say about Bobby Z vs Morris Day

Rolling Stone |
Article publication date: April 26, 1985

PRINCE TALKS
BY NEAL KARLEN







Prince: Wendy, for example, says, "I don't want that. I want to be right where I am. I can be strongest to this band right where I am." I personally love this band more than any other group I've every played with for that reason. Everybody knows what they have to do. I know there's something I have to do.

What sound do you get from different members of the Revolution?

Prince: Bobby Z was the first one to join. He's my best friend. Though he's not such a spectacular drummer, he watches me like no other drummer would. Sometimes, a real great drummer, like Morris, will be more concerned with the lick he is doing as opposed to how I am going to break it down.

don't forget Cloreen Baconskin

I always thought it was planned for Morris to be the drummer for The Time and then P moved him to front the band, no?

OldFriends4Sale said:

PsychedelicMama said:

From my understanding, Morris was supposed to be the drummer and Alexander Oneal was the lead. Then Alexander and P fell out and Morris was forced to step into the spotlight.

Also, Bobby and Kirk were NOT good drummers. Bobby was better than Kirk. When Prince fired them, his music got better.

KoolEaze said:

Because Stokley is a great drummer though he is not one of his. I obviously posted the thread in refernce to those who have worked with Prince. Hair- splitting and smart-assing aside.
[Edited 3/30/09 12:47pm]

daPrettyman said:

um - Kirk is a fine drummer. What we call a pocket drummer. Not all fancy but holds down the beat perfectly. You clearly have little idea what you are talking about.
Still- Prince obviously thought they brought something to the table, so they deserve respect too. Even though calling someone out in a song is not exactly respect.
Really - Princes music got better? How do explain the new crap?

Zannaloaf said:

I saw Kirk play for Prince 4 or 5 times in concert. Kirk was pretty good, but he always had a problem in keeping the tempo. I remember a couple of times where Prince would beat box or say something like "come on Kirk" and he would pick up the pace. Kirk never could play songs like "Shhh" or any other song that required lots of drumming.

From a technical standpoint, John, Michael and Sheila were definitely his best drummers to date. Cora is great also.

daPrettyman said:

Yeah your right, I'm glad Alexander and Prince fell out lol

I think they were good drummers but like Prince said, not spectacular.

But a lot of drummers do get on the set and show out/off, instead of playing the music

I think Bobby Z did a good job following Prince, like Prince said, even Bobby said he had no problem being replaced by Sheila and said he definately was not as good as she was. He's actually a good song writer and engineer

But there is something about chemistry that overrides skill. Bobby Z and Prince were friends for a long time, Z being there from the beginning as an engineer. He was quoted saying back then when he heard Prince and talked to him for a while he realized this was some he could dedicate his entire career too. A lot of people don't feel that way. Bobby Z & Sheila in my opinion were dedicated to Prince's vision.

Yet I would rather Sheila backing Prince on the drums. She unlike the rest following her, really plays the songs, she played Lady Cab Driver and many other song 'just like you hear it' on the album, that makes a big difference when you hear it live.

I don't know if his music got better as result.

daPrettyman said:

If you think his tempo Kirk's tempo was off then you seriously have a hearing problem. If tempo was the problem Kirk would never have lasted in Prince's band for 5 friggin' years as a drummer. Not to mention, John Blackwell had the worst timing problem. Trust me. I know a lot of the behind the scene stuff at Paisly Park. I know people who used to work with John Blackwell. Johnny B. almost lost his job with Prince because he couldn't play straight. I bought one of his instructional DVDs. I cringed a couple of times, hearing him play. His timing was obviously off. I'm a drummer trust me, I know what I'm talking about. So what if Prince didn't call out Bobby Z or Kirk Johnson. That doesn't make them bad drummers. Kirk may not be the flashiest drummer; just ask him to rip the drums up and he will. He will surprise the s**t out of you. I seen him play recently and my jaws dropped. Kirk is capable of playing flashing stuff but... Kirk told me that he doesn't care about that stuff. He just wants to play, keep the pocket and have fun. AND TRUST ME, I know Kirk personally.

PearlDrummer said:

I'm not going to disagree with you about John on his skills. Especially in the beginning during the ONA tour. I don't know if it was the fact that he had to get used to playing with Prince or what.

As for Kirk, I think ur opinion may be slanted due to the fact that you know him. Sure, Kirk kept great time, but I (personally) don't think he was a great drummer. Also, Kirk may have been with Prince for 5 years, but I don't recall Prince releasing too many songs with him on drums (outside of the Emancipation stuff). Sure, Kirk worked with P for a long time (I think it was closer to 7 years 92-97 or 98). Most of that time he was a dancer. Most of the stuff he did (released anyway) was via drum machine. I'm not trying to diss Kirk at all, because he can play, I just don't think he's among the best drummers that Prince has played with.

daPrettyman said:

I'm not defending Kirk because I know him. I defending him from a musician's point of view. Real musicians KNOW that Kirk IS a good drummer. Otherwise he wouldn't have found success after playing the drums for Prince. His carreer has thrived. I KNOW Michael Bland personally as well. Lot of people give me crap for saying this; I like Kirk over Michael Bland. But that doesn't mean that Michael Bland is not a good drummer. Michael Bland is my second favorite drummer. It's just that I prefer Kirk's tight, pocket sound. I like Bland for his huge monster sound. His playing on SHH scares the f**k outta me. It's so powerful. People are so quick to s**t on Kirk without knowing the facts first; Prince didn't hire Kirk to be all flashy.

PearlDrummer said:

Agreed. I don't think P hired Kirk to be flashy either. Prince was going for a particular vibe/sound during that era and Kirk filled that need.

I'm not a drummer, but I am a musician. I do think that Kirk can play, but compared to some of the other drummers that P has worked with, I don't consider him to be amongst the best. That's just my opinion.

BTW, what is Kirk doing now?

I haven't talked to him in a while.

From what I know, he's playing for The Truth, touring with Candy Dulfer and plays for the local group called Belladiva. Ocassionally, he does small gigs for some other acts.

PearlDrummer said:

That's good to know. I have always wondered if he was still playing.

PearlDrummer said:

I think most people's problem with Kirk (or maybe it's just mine) is the music that came out at the time when he was Prince's drummer. The Emancipation stuff had some of the blandest, most boring R&B beats I've ever heard. I mean, it basically sounded like your average cold, contemporary R&B radio beat. Nothing special or "Prince-like". Of course, Prince went along with all of it, as he sings off on everything, but I'll admit that whole Emancipation/NPS/Rave era had some very bland production.

As far as live and musicianship, I never saw him and would say to myself that he sucked or anything. He could keep it in the pocket pretty decently, just like Bobby could as well. The beats he had a hand in production for just weren't moving me. There were a couple that were pretty decent though (e.g Face Down, Come On, Continental remix, Slave), but overall, his in-studio work left me bored.

daPrettyman said:

Yeah, and i read somewhere that the band called him Morris "Too Hot" Day, because Morris was doing his thang on front when they practised while performing the Kool & The Gang-song, lol.
[Edited 3/31/09 13:54pm]

I thought all of Prince's music from the Emancipation/NPS/Rave era weren't very good. But nobody can honestly prove that Kirk is the problem if Prince was in charge. Prince still made some bland stuff even after Kirk left. But this is what I don't understand; where and how do people get the idea that bad production = bad drummer?

I think it's very hilarious how narrow-minded people can be. So many people treat John Blackwell like he's the greatest drummer; John Blackwell screwed up so bad that Prince nearly fired him. I don't recall that ever happening with Kirk Johnson. John Blackewll even mentioned that.... KIRK helped him with his drumming a little bit. I'm not making this up. It's one thing for anybody to say that they don't like Kirk as a drummer, and I respect that. But, it's another thing to say that Kirk sucks, in which any real musician will tell you that you're wrong. Just ask Michael Bland what he thinks of Kirk?

And as good as Blackwell is, I've seen Prince rip him a new one from the stage during the Musicology tour when it came to Seattle. At first I thought he was kidding, but he did it MORE THAN ONCE!!!!!

YES KIRK CAOULD PLAY AND HE'S SEXY !!! NPG DANCER extraordinare !

utopia7 said:

I thought we were talking about his drumming skills exclusively?

daPrettyman said:

had to mention his multi-talents


but yes he is a superb drummer. I guess since he's so low-key its hard to remember him. did you see those arms

I'm not the biggest fan of Kirk's playing, but I have to admit to liking his work on the Live Studio Mix of 'Somebody's Somebody'.



.....Bobby Z's a drummer?

utopia7 said:

Yeah, Kirk was definitely CUT!