NDRU said:

A legend among the tens of millions of people who have bought Prince albums? Or among the 50 of us?

Among the 50 legends

KoolEaze said:

Like him or not, he never lies or makes things up and backs his claims with hard facts and he definitely knows his subject matter. He´s the yang to some of the yin that´s going on around here, he´s the other side of the coin. I have yet to see a post by Bart where he bullshits.

I don´t believe in "legends" in a fan community, in the end they´re all just fans but, compared to some of those arrogant assholes who think they´re "in the know", he´s comparatively nice (well, not exactly "nice" nice, but nicer than those other idiots).

Just like Ernest Sewell back in the day, Bart brings some much needed criticism to the table. Prince would be well advised to listen to people like Bart (or Alan Leeds ) every now and then.

Exactly! I like reading his posts!

The idea of some kind of pecking order amongst people in a fan community is lame.

I am grateful to the members of the community who catalog and archive all of the information to share with other fans but those people seldom make themselves conspicuous....that says a lot.

babynoz said:

The idea of some kind of pecking order amongst people in a fan community is lame.

Do you think Bart aims for a place in a pecking order?

No, some people are too stupid to discern between the contents of the message and the way the contents are served.

They get upset about the way stuff is told instead of the contents because Bart is mostly right.

udo said:

babynoz said:

The idea of some kind of pecking order amongst people in a fan community is lame.

Do you think Bart aims for a place in a pecking order?

No, some people are too stupid to discern between the contents of the message and the way the contents are served.

They get upset about the way stuff is told instead of the contents because Bart is mostly right.

In your opinion.

TheEnglishGent said:

udo said:

Do you think Bart aims for a place in a pecking order?

No, some people are too stupid to discern between the contents of the message and the way the contents are served.

They get upset about the way stuff is told instead of the contents because Bart is mostly right.

In your opinion.

Is is something different than thinking.

Fact versus opinion.

Now re-read.

udo said:

babynoz said:

The idea of some kind of pecking order amongst people in a fan community is lame.

Do you think Bart aims for a place in a pecking order?

No, some people are too stupid to discern between the contents of the message and the way the contents are served.

They get upset about the way stuff is told instead of the contents because Bart is mostly right.

The OP question was not if Bart is aiming for a place in the pecking order. The question is if WE consider him a legend...I am answering the question that was asked.

I think the idea that of some type of hierarchy exist that would confer "legend" status to a fan of an entertainer is silly.

I'm not sure people are stupid just because they bristle at caustic statements. There is a difference in having an opinion and being opinionated.

babynoz said:

The OP question was not if Bart is aiming for a place in the pecking order. The question is if WE consider him a legend...I am answering the question that was asked.

My reality says that Bart is not aiming for a pecking order thing.

Pecking order is for children and people that need to prove something.

Some people are beyond that.

I think the idea that of some type of hierarchy exist that would confer "legend" status to a fan of an entertainer is silly.

Bart did not ask the question so it is just in other peoples' heads.

udo said:

TheEnglishGent said:

In your opinion.

Is is something different than thinking.

Fact versus opinion.

Now re-read.

In your opinion, what are some of the things Bart has been right about?

udo said:

TheEnglishGent said:

In your opinion.

Is is something different than thinking.

Fact versus opinion.

Now re-read.

Fact versus opinion? You said Bart is mostly right, which is clearly your opinion. I don't believe he's mostly right, which is my opinion.

Just because you agree with his point of view, doesn't make it factually correct.

if somebody says they dislike prince's music or aspects of his personality then that is an indisputable fact. anything after that is subjective. most of the people that criticise him are the most arrogant, rude, smuggest folk on here.

hypocrisy is the greatest luxury,

raise the double-standard.

Well, Bart does get his own flaming thread....

He really is two-face

RodeoSchro said:

In your opinion, what are some of the things Bart has been right about?

Just re-read the posts.

And do not start about the form, ask about the content if you really wonder.

udo said:

RodeoSchro said:

In your opinion, what are some of the things Bart has been right about?

Just re-read the posts.

And do not start about the form, ask about the content if you really wonder.

If you can't think of anything, then maybe Bart's not been "right" as much as you think. When I think of someone who is "right", I think of Langebleu - a person that always provides facts to answer a question relating to Prince.

Bart does not do this. I've not seen Bart do anything but criticize Prince's actions. Bart wants Prince to act a certain way; Prince acts a different way.

If Prince did what Bart wanted him to, that might make Bart happy. But it doesn't make him "right".

RodeoSchro said:

udo said:

Just re-read the posts.

And do not start about the form, ask about the content if you really wonder.

If you can't think of anything, then maybe Bart's not been "right" as much as you think. When I think of someone who is "right", I think of Langebleu - a person that always provides facts to answer a question relating to Prince.

Bart does not do this. I've not seen Bart do anything but criticize Prince's actions. Bart wants Prince to act a certain way; Prince acts a different way.

If Prince did what Bart wanted him to, that might make Bart happy. But it doesn't make him "right".

when it comes to personal opinions then he's always right. so am i. so are u. if it comes down to facts then that's a different matter. but if u think bart doesn't know his facts then i think it's u that is blind to the facts.

robertgeorgeakabob said:

RodeoSchro said:

If you can't think of anything, then maybe Bart's not been "right" as much as you think. When I think of someone who is "right", I think of Langebleu - a person that always provides facts to answer a question relating to Prince.

Bart does not do this. I've not seen Bart do anything but criticize Prince's actions. Bart wants Prince to act a certain way; Prince acts a different way.

If Prince did what Bart wanted him to, that might make Bart happy. But it doesn't make him "right".

when it comes to personal opinions then he's always right. so am i. so are u. if it comes down to facts then that's a different matter. but if u think bart doesn't know his facts then i think it's u that is blind to the facts.

I agree, except I've not disputed any incorrect facts from Bart.

I just don't remember any facts at all from Bart. I only remember Bart giving opinions on what Prince should do, or why whatever Prince just did was wrong.

But no facts.

udo said:

babynoz said:

The OP question was not if Bart is aiming for a place in the pecking order. The question is if WE consider him a legend...I am answering the question that was asked.

My reality says that Bart is not aiming for a pecking order thing.

Pecking order is for children and people that need to prove something.

Some people are beyond that.

I think the idea that of some type of hierarchy exist that would confer "legend" status to a fan of an entertainer is silly.

Bart did not ask the question so it is just in other peoples' heads.

The question I was answering is the question that was asked by shadesofpurple in the first post. You keep trying to manipulate me into guessing Bart's intentions, but I will not do that since that isn't what was asked in the first place.

KoolEaze said:

Like him or not, he never lies or makes things up and backs his claims with hard facts and he definitely knows his subject matter. He´s the yang to some of the yin that´s going on around here, he´s the other side of the coin. I have yet to see a post by Bart where he bullshits.

I don´t believe in "legends" in a fan community, in the end they´re all just fans but, compared to some of those arrogant assholes who think they´re "in the know", he´s comparatively nice (well, not exactly "nice" nice, but nicer than those other idiots).

Just like Ernest Sewell back in the day, Bart brings some much needed criticism to the table. Prince would be well advised to listen to people like Bart (or Alan Leeds ) every now and then.

THIS!

Adisa said:

KoolEaze said:

Like him or not, he never lies or makes things up and backs his claims with hard facts and he definitely knows his subject matter. He´s the yang to some of the yin that´s going on around here, he´s the other side of the coin. I have yet to see a post by Bart where he bullshits.

I don´t believe in "legends" in a fan community, in the end they´re all just fans but, compared to some of those arrogant assholes who think they´re "in the know", he´s comparatively nice (well, not exactly "nice" nice, but nicer than those other idiots).

Just like Ernest Sewell back in the day, Bart brings some much needed criticism to the table. Prince would be well advised to listen to people like Bart (or Alan Leeds ) every now and then.

THIS!

Amen! :yes:

udo said:

Adisa said:

THIS!

Amen! :yes:

Prince has never listened to a single word Bart or Ernest has screeched, so I fail to see how their complaining could be characterized as "much-needed criticism".

RodeoSchro said:

udo said:

Amen! :yes:

Prince has never listened to a single word Bart or Ernest has screeched, so I fail to see how their complaining could be characterized as "much-needed criticism".

How do you know?

Their criticism is needed because Prince.org is a fan community, and they both bring balance to this place....their criticism is aimed at some of the obvious flaws and fuck ups we´ve seen from Prince over the years...and you know every serious biographer or journalist would include those interesting details if he or she were serious about their subject matter. It´s not that I agree with every single thing Bart posts, nor do I agree with his often negative views but you gotta admit that he never lies, and most of his posts contain facts rather than opionion (like Levi Seacer being denied credit for certain songs but not having enough money to further pursue lawsuits, just to give you one example). I could give you many more examples but I don´t feel like it right now, this is not about me raving about Bart......but when he´s right he´s right.

He may come across as obssessed at times but show me ONE post of his where he posted lies or made up facts.

I´m not talking about his opinions, I´m talking about those posts where he posted hard, undeniable facts. And there have been lots of those posts but I really can´t be bothered to search for them right now.

Like I said, it´s not that I agree with everything he writes, on the contrary, but I really don´t see him as a sociopath, a liar, or whatever else has been said about him on this thread.

Many people just have a problem with Prince constantly mistreating his fans and wasting so many good opportunities, blowing good chances to either deliver a good product, a good show, or a good interview, and as a fan I see nothing wrong with some orgers, like Bart, pointing out those flaws or missed opportunities.

It´s part of the ride in my opinion. He´s my favorite musician, always will be, and I would always pay money to check out his shows, even when he´s old and gray and playing in small venues, I don´t care.....he´s Prince....but there´s nothing wrong with some good and justified (and fact based) criticism on a fan site that covers many aspects of Prince´s career and life and art.

Let´s put it this way....show me one thread, just one example where Bart lied or got his facts wrong.

You could argue that extreme critics are needed to balance the extreme butt kissers.

But I think they're just as blind as each other, and therefore neither can be trusted. I am in favor of free thinking; being positive when it's justified, and negative when it's justified.

KoolEaze said:

RodeoSchro said:

Prince has never listened to a single word Bart or Ernest has screeched, so I fail to see how their complaining could be characterized as "much-needed criticism".

How do you know?

Their criticism is needed because Prince.org is a fan community, and they both bring balance to this place....their criticism is aimed at some of the obvious flaws and fuck ups we´ve seen from Prince over the years...and you know every serious biographer or journalist would include those interesting details if he or she were serious about their subject matter. It´s not that I agree with every single thing Bart posts, nor do I agree with his often negative views but you gotta admit that he never lies, and most of his posts contain facts rather than opionion (like Levi Seacer being denied credit for certain songs but not having enough money to further pursue lawsuits, just to give you one example). I could give you many more examples but I don´t feel like it right now, this is not about me raving about Bart......but when he´s right he´s right.

He may come across as obssessed at times but show me ONE post of his where he posted lies or made up facts.

I´m not talking about his opinions, I´m talking about those posts where he posted hard, undeniable facts. And there have been lots of those posts but I really can´t be bothered to search for them right now.

Like I said, it´s not that I agree with everything he writes, on the contrary, but I really don´t see him as a sociopath, a liar, or whatever else has been said about him on this thread.

Many people just have a problem with Prince constantly mistreating his fans and wasting so many good opportunities, blowing good chances to either deliver a good product, a good show, or a good interview, and as a fan I see nothing wrong with some orgers, like Bart, pointing out those flaws or missed opportunities.

It´s part of the ride in my opinion. He´s my favorite musician, always will be, and I would always pay money to check out his shows, even when he´s old and gray and playing in small venues, I don´t care.....he´s Prince....but there´s nothing wrong with some good and justified (and fact based) criticism on a fan site that covers many aspects of Prince´s career and life and art.

Let´s put it this way....show me one thread, just one example where Bart lied or got his facts wrong.

First off, I've never said Bart's lied or got his facts wrong. All I've said is that Bart is an incessant whiner whose life appears to be totally bereft of all joy, simply because Prince won't act as his own personal jukebox. But that doesn't mean that he's ever lied.

Second, by "listened to" I meant, in part, "taken any of Bart's advice". Now, I highly doubt Prince HAS ever read or heard a word of Bart's mindless screeching. On the off chance some minion passed on to Prince any of Bart's crybaby rants, it's painfully obvious that Prince totally disregarded any advice Bart gave.

Bart's distribes are all the same - "This is what Prince should have done! Also, he hasn't put out a good song since 1984!"

If Bart was so smart, Prince would listen to him. If Bart had any courage, he'd get a job working for Prince. If Prince was so dumb, he wouldn't have $250 million in the bank.

Constantly resorting to overstatements and personal attacks are as far removed from good criticism as it gets.

Bart knows a lot of trivia, all right. His area of expertise seems to be the mid-90s era of Prince and apparently he has had something to do with Uptown (I might be wrong about that though). None of that makes up for his behaviour otherwise. I think that there have been several more annoying people than him on this site though.

KoolEaze said:

Their criticism is needed because Prince.org is a fan community, and they both bring balance to this place....

Their criticism isn't needed because it's 100% negative, which only balances the 100% positives. Scrape off the floaters and the sinkers and you're left with the balance. In any survey you'd be well advised to ignore the extremely positive and extremely negative minorities. And the key here is that both ends of the scale are the minorities.

[Edited 12/6/12 3:27am]

udo said:

Is it a US thing to discuss Bart like it was done right here? Can we please discuss music?

Music? This is prince.org site discussion.

novabrkr said:

Constantly resorting to overstatements and personal attacks are as far removed from good criticism as it gets.

Bart knows a lot of trivia, all right. His area of expertise seems to be the mid-90s era of Prince and apparently he has had something to do with Uptown (I might be wrong about that though). None of that makes up for his behaviour otherwise. I think that there have been several more annoying people than him on this site though.

Totally agree with you that his behaviour often comes across as a tad too rude.