Its ridiculous to see all these locked threads. Its one thing to have and "official" PE review thread but to have to scroll through 200+ postings to find that one comment on "Resolution" is too much work.

Takeiteees, y'all.

emesem said:

[Wrong forum - Moving to Site Discussion - June7]

Yeah, I kind of agree with emesem.
Now that Planet Earth is officially out (in one part of the world at least) it'd be nice to be able to start a thread about one particular song, or aspect of the album.

I can understand locking endless 'Planet Earth - What Do You Think' threads, but this album has so many things to discuss seperately about it. It's content, it's distribution and even it's artwork.

I think we ought to get our revenge by starting a premature Planet Earth Survivor thread

Haystack said:

Does this help? I hope so... http://www.prince.org/msg/7/234672

June7 said:

Yeah, that's cool.

Phew, no Planet Earth Survivor thread.

Heh. It is true. Everytime I blink, I find June7 has done a big steaming dump all over any attempts at discussion in the Prince forum. Can anyone tell me why discussion of a new Prince album needs to be regimented in such a particular and rigid way, so stifling, when that same approach to moderation is not applied elsewhere on the site? I'm sure you mean well June7 and I'm not having a go at you. I know moderating can be a demanding, thankless chore at the best of times, but there comes a point where your actions are actually mostly detrimental to the discussion, which is the opposite of what you're trying to achieve. I'm sure that is not your intention, but I can assure you that this is the case.

There are many specific examples. Right now there are a two main bits of news in the Prince world: the concerts and the new album. Everything else is just fluff. Why then, when everyone has nice big computer screens, are Orgers forced to squash all album-related discussion into a handful of pre-ordained sticky threads? Why allocate a disproportionately small number of threads to topics that everyone wants to talk about from different angles? It doesn't make a lick of sense. We all know that these monolithic threads quickly turn to ,as multiple overlapping topics / conversations quickly derail the whole thing.

Now, there was a thread about the cover art for Planet Earth and how some people felt it featured sacriligious imagery. I don't think it is a particularly amazing or interesting insight, but the point is that this was very clearly a different point of debate from the rest of the album discussion, and in that sense merited its own thread. It's now locked, with the suggestion being to restrict discussion to the sticky thread. Might I also point out that people may also seek to avoid the monolithic sticky threads because June7 keeps fucking locking them and starting a new one, condemning all previous threads of discussion to wither and die?

There's nothing else going on in the Prince world other than the album and the tour. So let people fill the fucking page with threads if they want to, we all have nice big monitors for our PCs. As long as no one completely takes the piss and abuses the forums, as long as the threads adhere to the site T&Cs and are on-topic, then hands-off please.

Start appling some common sense to the moderation of the Prince forum please, or your users will end up migrating to other sites which allow, you know, actual discussion of Prince's music. Fancy that! More to the point, the heavily regimented approach applied to moderation the Prince forum is not the same approach being applied to other forums such as General Discussion, Concerts etc. So next time someone posts "if you were a sandwich, what kind of sandwich would you be?" or some dumb shit like that in GD, can we then expect that thread to be locked down, with a single mod-created sticky sandwich thread for all future sandwich related conversation? Mmmmm... sandwich. Sorry, got distracted. Same applies to the other forums. There are lots of overlapping threads in the Concerts forum... "where is a good place to stay" ... "I got aftershow tickets" etc etc and it doesn't bother anyone, and it isn't a problem, and that forum is all the better for the lack of heavy-handed clueless moderation. Get a grip.
[Edited 7/15/07 13:20pm]

June7 said:

Not really, no. Are you going to remove all song-related posts from the main Planet Earth sticky then, since you've created individual stickies too for each song? It makes no sense at all, and I'm tired of seeing perfectly reasonable, on-topic discussion interfered with for no good reason. I'm tired of seeing your name all over the front page of the Prince forum, every goddamn thread started or ended by you. I recognise that you're a much harder-working and generally nicer moderator than I ever was, but you have to understand that we're talking about the Prince forum, not the June7 forum.
[Edited 7/15/07 13:24pm]

Making a main sticky for discussion of the cd and a sticky to discuss each track makes sense. It's always worked in the past whether it's to do with a cd or a performance on an awards show to the superbowl.

Keeps the forum from being flooded, keeps the forum organized; and gives orgers a sticky to read others posts and/or post their own comments.

luv4u said:

Go over and have a look at the Prince forum, and then tell me that it makes sense. It makes sense on paper perhaps, but when you have a hot topic (such as a new album or tour) it absolutely requires separate threads... the sheer amount of varied discussion demands multiple threads, and can support multiple threads. The single sticky monolithic thread approach clearly isn't working and moreover it doesn't meet the needs of the users. It also requires excessive micro-management on the part of the mods.

When you have real answers for the points raised in this thread, then you can tell me it makes sense. Otherwise we're talking about a "square peg / round hole scenario" here. The Prince forum is excessively moderated, more than the other forums, and the discussion suffers directly as a result. Remember, the point of this site is to allow people to talk about Prince. Remember that? If you're gonna get at least one forum right, get the Prince one right.

It's about applying some common sense. We're not talking about open the floodgates to a thousand duplicate "I just got Planet Earth!" threads - that would be silly. However there is enough variety and scope in the discussion of a hot topic to support more than one thread. Given that nearly everyone who is logging into the Prince forum today is there to talk about the new album, it is pretty silly to restrict discussion to a single thread. Look at this way - if the single-sticky-thread approach was working as you claimed, why on earth does June7 keep locking the stickies and creating "part 2", "part 3" etc. If it was working, that wouldn't be necessary.
[Edited 7/15/07 16:20pm]

luv4u said:

This specific ,1 thread per song, approach has been taken in the past?

The current solution is absolutely bewildering. People just want to talk about Prince for goodness sake - prince.org should be facilitating such discussion, not obstructing it. If someone logs on today to the org, they probably want to talk about the new album. So which thread to post on? If they post on the current Planet Earth sticky thread (the third such thread, inexplicably), who is to say it won't get moved to one of the song-specific threads? What if they want to compare one song to another? What can be discussed in the main PE sticky if there are now song-specific threads too? Will the main sticky be locked again for no reason, with a part 4 or part 5 effectively putting a full stop to any discussion you were trying to follow?

Any mods who sincerely believe that this is working - I challenge you to actually try using prince.org (the Prince Music & More forum) for a week as a regular user. Try following conversations, try discussing Prince while June7 keeps reshaping the ground beneath your feet, and see how well it works. I went offline for a few hours, came back and found that EVERY THREAD on the first page had been either locked or created by June7. On the day a new Prince album came out in the UK. That should tell you there's something not working quite as it should, eh? There's obviously some kind of mental model, some kind of design for how that forum should work, but it seems as though it only exists in the head of certain mods, while the users who try to read and post are just constantly baffled and frustrated by trying to second guess the increasingly bizarre and unnecessary moderation.
[Edited 7/15/07 16:38pm]

ian said:

I'm quite in agreement here. Again, I think June7 means (and meant) well, but I can see how it would be utterly stifling to conversation. I think there can be a happy medium between a million threads saying "I love Planet Earth" to allowing different aspects to be discussed.

Just my 2 cents. I don't mod that forum.

ian said:

Actually, this is something new that's being tried out. I've actually received more positive response from this trial then negativity from orgers who have orgnoted me.

I am not reshaping the ground beneath your feet, just restructuring it. As a result of a comment by Haystack, I created a thread for each track of the disc... it seems to be working. All other aspects can be discussed in the main sticky - everything you mentioned above, and more. It should flow better now, with the track discussion threads present.

Change is always difficult to absorb at first - give it a try, let's see if it works out. Let's not all jump on the negativity train...

June7 said:

June7 said:

change can be good but arbitrary rule is not...if these types of drastic measures are to be taken in the future i would strongly suggest two things:

1) the mods get together and discuss it prior (and in private)

and

2) that you create a thread in site discussion to find out what the "mood" of the site is before initiating anything new.

and futhermore...some of you mods really need to make it a habit of checking the mod email list *and* participating in the discussions. its part of the checks and balances of our system.

ian said:

If this is not "having a go" a me, then I'd hate to see when you are! This approach to big news days in the Prince forum is not new... we've done this before on several occasions to better the forum. Believe it or not, it works. I've had orgers thank me for such actions, and I've had the opposite. I know I can't please everyone, but - in the end, we do what we can with what we think is right.



First of all, not everyone has "nice big computer screens" as you claim, to view all the "fluff" forced upon us in this and other forums. The specific track threads are a first... it's something I'm trying out to offer a more organized conversation of specific songs and/or the entire album. Let it breath for a little bit... let's see how it works. If you're seriously suggesting 15 like minded threads based on Future Baby Momma (for example) is a great idea to let ride out, well - that says a mouthful.



I love how you feel you speak for the whole of the Org - the cover art thread could have easily been discussed in the main sticky. There truly is no need to bog the org down with continuous like threads.



You speak as though you've never moderated a forum before. To fill a "fucking page with threads" regardless of their content, cuz we all have thes "nice big monitors for our PCs" is absolutely the most ridiculous thing I've heard you say (yet)... because we know that the threads will always adhere to the site T&C's and remain on topic! We should just all turn in our gavels.


I always make every effort to conduct my moderating with "common sense" and integrity. I don't just lock threads all willy nilly - as you know it's a very time consuming effort. There are stupid threads that don't get moderated, simply because its done no harm to anyone, or has been overlooked by a mod. And you're right, this is a Prince site (not a sandwich site) - so the Prince threads are going to be looked at more often. The Prince forum is going to be moderated more often. Not everyone likes sandwiches. Not every one likes Prince either - but they're here, too. The concert forum can almost be likened to this forum as far as visits and posts go, so to compare the concert forum to Prince's forum is a poor choice to support your argument. More shit happens in the Prince forum, thus, requiring more moderation. It's also hard for me to take any of your suggestions seriously, to be discussed seriously, when you sink to the level of name-calling. I take your "clueless moderation" as a personal jab at me - and yes, we've been there before, you and I. It's obvious you're not a fan of my moderation - and guess what, I wasn't a big fan of yours. But, when I did have issues with something you said or did, I brought it to you by Orgnote, and attempted to handle it respectfully and privately... it was never my style to publicly berate someone. But, thank you for your suggestions... I have listened, but, I want to wait and see what happens with this trial-run, maybe then we can better discuss the pros and cons of my "cluelessness"...

oh lets not turn this thread into a tit for tat...

how about we take this oppurtunity to find out what the people of the org think of this new system?

folks...do you or do you not like the new set up? mods, could we consider creating a locked sticky thread in the Prince forum directing folks to this thread so that we can find out what those participants think of the new system?

taking a couple comments and assuming thats the general consensus is a risky approach...so let's open up the discussion, isn't that fair?

sosgemini said:

Great idea! I'd love the feedback.

Okay, I'm gonna lock this up and refer everyone to the poll - June7

go here: http://www.prince.org/msg/3/234757

Reopening - enjoy.

I just wanted to say that I don't even try to read the stickies for the most part. If they contain 15, 16, 17 pages, it's just way too much to even try to wade through. I realize their might be some great conversation going on in there somewhere, but I've got a lot of things to do and spending time trying to wade through that many pages to find it, just isn't worth that time for me.

I agree with ian. Conversation is an ebb and flow thing, naturally. There are some things that are going to interest certain people, but not others, and if you have such large threads, then those that aren't interested have to wade through all those thoughts to get to what does interest them. It's very frustrating. While I understand you don't want 50 threads about "I bought PE today and absolutely Love it!" or "I bought PE today and it sucks!", but there are other thoughts and conversations to be had about PE that deserves attention and if it's buried in a long sticky, it just won't get the attention it deserves.

Just my .02 cents.

.
[Edited 7/24/07 21:29pm]

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[Edited 7/24/07 21:32pm]

LittleRedCorvette said:

If you adjust your settings you'll only have 2 or 3 pages to go through. Problem solved