Serena said:

What on earth does all that have to do with karma? You have just been luckier with service than many other fans. It could just as easily have been you and you'd likely be upset like those less fortunate. Nice total lack of empathy.

andrewm7 said:

Too late. He's fucked too many people over. His fanbase is getting steadily smaller as the quality of music wanes and the poor business practices continue (though those who are still fully on board may be increasingly fanatical )

Yes. But I'd be much more skeptical this time around and would need to actually see the value in what I'm getting up front.

CerpinTaxt said:

But fans always think they can see the value in what they're getting up front. It's just that in the end it turns out to be lies and what's promised isn't delivered.

Fauxie said:

Oh whoops, I'm merging threads in my head. I posted in another thread about how I feel an obligation to pay Prince, one way or another, for some material I [might] have gathered lo these many years.

And don't get me wrong, I do have empathy and understand the complaints. I was just answering the question and stating my experiences with his online ventures.

andrewm7 said:

Sounds too logical and common sense for Prince

I don't think I will, at least not on the basis of promises or speculation. If all the goodies and perks are there from day 1, then I guess I'd weigh it up then. But I'm no longer going to sign up to vague speculations about what "might" be on the site.

errant said:

I couldn't figure out wtf you were talking about with the voting thing until just now. I didn't realize this was a front page poll since I usually just go to the Forums page, I thought we were voting in this thread. But now, my ONE and ONLY vote has been cast.

andrewm7 said:

That's a good idea! And I have a feeling we'll soon be getting some sort of 'mea culpa' after this fuckup, it would be the right thing to do anyway.

I've never paid for any online Prince venture. I was only a casual fan until the 3121 era, so I (luckily?) missed out on his previous ventures. If he put up an iTunes-style website with on-demand downloads of outtakes and concert recordings (DRM-free, of course), I'd happily pay. That's all I'm interested in. But for a graphics/flash-heavy subscription site that's light on content? Hell no.

.
[Edited 3/26/10 4:21am]

No I would not join. I get all the music for free elsewhere.

Prince has been robbing me for years. I'm simply returning the favor.

Nope. Unless there is something created along the lines of the NPG Music Club site, but I don't think we are ever going to see anything like that again, sadly.

Other than that, I'm simply not interested in paying $77 for a membership site that only now has some silly orbit that disappears. I honestly don't feel that I got my money's worth out of that mess (though I did get my t-shirt which is more than what some others received).
[Edited 3/26/10 4:37am]

missfee said:

I think you are right. But I bet we get a half promise of something like it

Here's what I don't understand.

Why charge for a fansite at all? Why can't Prince just open up a free website which has a 'membership' component to it, but also a free online music & merchandise store?

I'm still flabbergasted at the folks last year who insisted that Trent Reznor wasn't anywhere near the Internet Pioneer that Prince is with the NIN website.


At this point, EVERY musician that has a fan-site that sells merchandise is far, far, faaaaarrrrr in advance of Prince.


There is absolutely no way in hell that I would be a paying subscriber to Prince. Sheeee--it, I still intend to recoup my $50 bucks (minus $27 for the album and fey t-shirt) one way or another.

TheVoid said:

Because you just have to look around here and you will find a bucket full of blind fams that would buy a purple turd if they got the chance. There are people who think that subscribing is some form of penance and that in doing so, they are somehow in commune with Prince.

In their eyes, when it goes right, Prince is a genius. When it goes wrong, its someone else in the chain. Or its still somehow Princes genius again.

Prince sells this shit because there are always some suckers who will buy it.

Prince, unfortunately for the sane, is a magnet for the great unhinged.

SquirrelMeat said:

I get that part.
I mean, look at the disturbing ass shit folks are posting defending Prince right this minute on the renewal thread.


But, from a business standpoint, it just makes bad business for Prince, because there are alot of casual fans out there who dont't member, but would be interested in browsing his catalogue. But forcing a subscription (with a silly riddle to login by the way ), he's pretty much ruled any of those types of casual fans/listeners would even browse for his material.

If he had an open site that allowed everyone browse and purchase, he'd make more money me thinks. And there's always the option of having a 'private' membership area of the site for concert tickets and stuff like that I guess. It would allow casual fans and those who drink the purple Kool-Aide to both have access to what they want, and a way for him to make more money--and it appears that's all he cares about lately anyways.

TheVoid said:

oh hush. you're the biggest member here.

squirrelgrease said:

that's an insult to stoners. we may be high, but we're still not stupid enough to answer yes to the question.
[Edited 3/26/10 6:22am]

I was not a member of NPGMC and wish I would have been, although I have the music now.

I became a member of Lotusflower so I wouldn't miss anything again. I feel cheated to be honest. Sure I enjoyed the 4 songs I couldn't get anywhere else but that certainly wasn't worth the $77.

All that said, I can't lie, if there is new music not available anywhere else, I'll join again.

errant said:

TheVoid said:

Sorry to sidetrack from the love-in going on here, but for some reason reading this reminded me of how struck I was with your famminess when we met. You're a waaay bigger prince fam than I am. Just wasn't expecting that.

I would rejoin. I had no problems at all. I got everything on time. I got the tickets to Leno, Last Jam of 09. To me it was a great experience.

organizationceo said:

well i have to agree with that. if you're lucky enough to live close to
a concert site or have enough money to fly out to france or montreux,
then the site had some worth in procuring tickets.

but that's always gonna be for a minority of people.

in the end, we all got to hear those concerts, due to bootleggers. but
it would have been nice if he'd managed to share at least 1 full show
with the people who signed up for the site.

all those concerts are being recorded and often videos are shot. plus
he's recording songs all of the time, starting various projects just
to stretch his musical muscles and shooting videos for songs that are
never released.

if he doesn't release any of that on his pay site, then when on earth
does he ever expect to release stuff like that?

before lotusflower went online, he was shooting a video for "$" but
we've never seen it. if he can't even release vids or other footage
that ties in with the current album/site, then what chance is there
we'll ever see any of the other stuff?

what's the point in doing it if it will never see the light of day?
more specifically, what's the point in constantly talking about it
and dangling it in front of the fans?

IstenSzek said:

True

IstenSzek said:

yeah. see. THIS is why I'm dissatisfied with the website. We know the hundreds of hours of audio and video tape that he's got. We know and HE knows he's never going to use it for anything. Is there some reason that the Chocolate Invasion/Slaughterhouse/ONA/Xpectation/NPGMC stuff couldn't have been put up as download offers? It would have gone a long way to appeasing the complaints about lack of content. And the complaints of those whose can't access the original files because of the cancelled DRM license.

How many dozens upon dozens of unreleased music videos has he shot that could have been posted up there?

He couldn't have put Purple & Gold and the re-make of In A Large Room With No Light on there in addition to giving them to other sites?

Hell, he put on a show straight from Paisley Park. Of all the places to do a live streaming concert from, you'd think that would be the easiest.

Despite the way it was advertised in interviews, I never expected 10 albums worth of unreleased vault material. I hoped, but never expected it. But from a commercial standpoint, he's got all this useless junk sitting around in his vaults that has no marketable commercial value (the aforementioned NPGMC stuff, music videos, etc.), and subscribers would eat it up. Maybe not eat it up, since we've already got it, but it might have made up for the DRM and we'd have it in lossless quality. He could have continued to milk that stuff with very little effort and it would have at least been SOMETHING. Hell, he could have put up some obscure semi-interesting live cut once a month. We'd at least have gotten twelve tracks out of it. I'd even take "Big Tall Wall" and "Fuschia Light" two outtakes that I really don't care for, and felt like I at least got SOMETHING out of it. Maybe not much, but something.

I didn't ever join the NPGMC. The first year, we were only 3 short years on from the Crystal Ball fiasco and I'd promised that I'd never do one of these "money up front, content and timetable to be announced at a later date" deals again. But after the first year, it seems like people kinda got their money out of it. Yeah, those download tracks each month weren't much to write home about, but you were getting a few new, unreleased Prince tracks, occasionally from the vault, every month. Year two I didn't join either because I just wasn't willing to trust I'd be getting something for my money. After that, the model of per-item charges seems to be the best and only logical set-up. And with the constant touring during those years, the tickets thing worked out pretty well. You add on the celebrations and the rest, and it seemed like it actually was worth doing.

But last year, when lotusflow3r.com came along, I figured... okay, based on the last few set-ups, it seems like he's learned from past mistakes. And you're getting to download the three albums straight off the bat, so surely there'll be more..... Boy do I feel like an idiot for falling for it again after being so adamant for so long to not fall for it again. I fell for the first one. And I fell for the last one. Unfortunately, those happen to be two of the most galling direct artist-fan business interactions we've had. And I won't do it again. There is no reason he can't show me, up front, what he's got, and then let me buy it. Because I will buy it. There's no point in denying it. I will buy whatever song, whatever album, whatever show. But I'm not handing over the money up front ever again and hoping that he decides to give me something for it again a year down the line.

errant said:

indeed. that was an absolute slap in the face. there is no reason at all
why those two tracks could not have been put up on the site.

the only things the site ever offered was stuff that was already out on
dvd or had been previewed on other websites that had nothing to do with
prince.

the montreux footage was on youtube, the studio tracks were on websites
other than his own and the french live mp3s were streaming on french and
other sites well before they put them up on lotusflower.

so the few scraps that did end up on the site, went up too late and were
by no means exclusive.

No - I won't make the mistake again.

I wasn't online for NPGMC year 1 so year 2 was my first Prince website experience. I was very excited about the 4 CDs on offer for joining and was very pleased with the first CD. Then I got my first taste of Prince using ambiguous language to screw us. ONA live was a nice set, but it wasn't worth $75, especially when it was available everywhere else (cheaper and at the same time).

So I didn't join the $25 lifetime membership for a long time. It seemed like all you got for your money was some graphics, streaming audio and the ability to say "look at what a fan I am, I'm a lifetime member!" Eventually I caved and signed up in the hope that in my lifetime, something worthwhile would come along. The site shut down a few weeks later.

I did make the mistake of buying everything available from the Musicology store and, not knowing a lot about DRM, backed up the music I had paid for, but not the licenses. Damn

Despite all this, I got sucked into the lotusflow3r hype and build-up. I really liked the previews of Colonised Mind and Crimson & Clover and suddenly it seemed exciting to be a Prince fan, with all the talk of 10 albums of unreleased material, live recordings, etc, I thought "if he's charging $77 a pop, this is going to be great!" What a sad let-down.

The only way I will pay up-front for another online venture is if we are told explicitly, upfront, what we get for our money. Even the offer of "4 CDs" won't cut it this time - I would need to see tracklistings before I open my wallet for him again. And they'd better be great if he ever wants to make up for how poorly-treated he's left us feeling this time.

IstenSzek said:

Errrr...did you read the threads about Purple and Gold?