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Thread started 06/23/04 11:52am

EvilWhiteMale

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Barebacking and gay male AIDS conversion parties

A friend of mine was watching Queer As Folk the other night and told me they were having "conversion parties." He described what it was all about and I was like "Shit, is this really going on?" So I looked it up and here's what I found:

http://www.rubbaboyz.net/...reback.htm

http://aids.about.com/lib...70401a.htm

Bug chasers are negative men who are looking to get infected; gift givers are men who are positive and willing to infect bug chasers. The gift refers to HIV and conversion parties are group sex parties where bug chasers allow themselves to get the gift. Bug brothers are a group of positive men and poz cum refers to the semen of an HIV positive man. There are many reasons why people would attend these parties that are advertised all over the internet, porn shops and bath houses. Gay men are tired of using condoms and feel that there is a cure or vaccine around the corner for HIV. Some men feel that if they just get infected, they will not have to worry about getting it anymore and can forget about the condoms altogether.

I mean, what the fuck is going on with this shit? How sick does a person have to be to want AIDS? I have no problem with dudes having orgy parties and stuff, but use a godamn hat for fuck's sake. There's nothing cool about having a disease like that.
"You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." "

Al Pacino- Scarface
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Reply #1 posted 06/23/04 12:13pm

Lammastide

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Unfortunately, there is a small group of gay men who are into this. I wish I could say otherwise, but I can't.

A lot of sick stuff is at play here... twisted ideas of liberation from worry (they figure they'll get it eventually anyway). Reckless abandon. I had one really insightful guy warn me when I was first coming out that some particularly vain gay men don't ever want to get old, ugly and undesirable, so they allow themselves to get infected, opting to die young and have fun in the interim. Others actively seek infection by a positive romantic partner because somehow they believe the disease -- and, ultimately, the entwined mortality -- will bring them "closer." sad
[This message was edited Wed Jun 23 12:15:21 2004 by Lammastide]
"Be excellent to each other." -Bill and Ted
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Reply #2 posted 06/23/04 12:17pm

EvilWhiteMale

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I would suggest they have the next party in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.
"You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." "

Al Pacino- Scarface
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Reply #3 posted 06/23/04 12:18pm

silentflute

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EvilWhiteMale said:

A friend of mine was watching Queer As Folk the other night and told me they were having "conversion parties." He described what it was all about and I was like "Shit, is this really going on?" So I looked it up and here's what I found:

http://www.rubbaboyz.net/...reback.htm

http://aids.about.com/lib...70401a.htm

Bug chasers are negative men who are looking to get infected; gift givers are men who are positive and willing to infect bug chasers. The gift refers to HIV and conversion parties are group sex parties where bug chasers allow themselves to get the gift. Bug brothers are a group of positive men and poz cum refers to the semen of an HIV positive man. There are many reasons why people would attend these parties that are advertised all over the internet, porn shops and bath houses. Gay men are tired of using condoms and feel that there is a cure or vaccine around the corner for HIV. Some men feel that if they just get infected, they will not have to worry about getting it anymore and can forget about the condoms altogether.

I mean, what the fuck is going on with this shit? How sick does a person have to be to want AIDS? I have no problem with dudes having orgy parties and stuff, but use a godamn hat for fuck's sake. There's nothing cool about having a disease like that.


[keep the snide commentary to yourself, s'ilvous plait.--Dansa]
"Pam...that's just stupid."
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Reply #4 posted 06/23/04 12:19pm

OdysseyMiles

Lammastide said:

Unfortunately, there is a small group of gay men who are into this. I wish I could say otherwise, but I can't.

A lot of sick stuff is at play here... twisted ideas of liberation from worry (they figure they'll get it eventually anyway). Reckless abandon. I had one really insightful guy warn me when I was first coming out that some particularly vain gay men don't ever want to get old, ugly and undesirable, so they allow themselves to get infected, opting to die young and have fun in the interim. Others actively seek infection by a positive romantic partner because somehow they believe the disease -- and, ultimately, the entwined mortality -- will bring them "closer." sad
[This message was edited Wed Jun 23 12:15:21 2004 by Lammastide]


That is terrible. These individuals need hope so badly. sad
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Reply #5 posted 06/23/04 12:20pm

Anxiety

Yeah, this happens. I wish it didn't, but it does.

On the one hand, the small-L libertarian in me wants to say, "well, it's their bodies - if they want to do this to themselves, then let 'em." People do a lot of ridiculous, damaging stuff to themselves because they think it's cool or sexy or somehow will relieve them of their problems. And of course, it more often than not only creates a larger problem, which might have been what they needed to deal with to put their lives on track in the first place (whew, went from libertarian to zen...not such a long trip from one to the other, really).

On the other hand, I have to wonder if anyone at these parties has had to care for a dying friend or loved one who died of an AIDS-related illness. I have to wonder if these people really want to put their families through that kind of suffering, even if they're "cool" with going through that kind of suffering themselves. It seems terribly selfish and ignorant to me, no matter how "do what you will" I try to be in looking at it.

So yeah, it happens. But don't go looking for the "conversion party" float at the pride parade. confused
[This message was edited Wed Jun 23 12:29:49 2004 by Anxiety]
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Reply #6 posted 06/23/04 12:20pm

Lammastide

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EvilWhiteMale said:

I would suggest they have the next party in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.

no no no! Awwwww, man... This had/has the potential to be a good, educational thread. Please don't screw up the good thing you, yourself, created.
"Be excellent to each other." -Bill and Ted
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Reply #7 posted 06/23/04 12:23pm

EvilWhiteMale

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Lammastide said:

no no no! Awwwww, man... This had/has the potential to be a good, educational thread. Please don't screw up the good thing you, yourself, created.



Okay okay. But I still think it would be a good idea.


Back to topic....
"You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." "

Al Pacino- Scarface
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Reply #8 posted 06/23/04 12:30pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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As a gay man, I can attest that at times it becomes exhausting to have to think about HIV/AIDS with every encounter. Sometimes it does seem like an inevitable thing so I can see the attraction to "getting it over with already". That said, I don't think I know of anyone personally who thinks this way. That they'd rather get the disease. I wish that things could be different, but they aren't. Let's hope for a cure and educate young kids on the risks so they can avoid it.
2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740
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Reply #9 posted 06/23/04 12:40pm

Raine

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THESE PEOPLE ARE SICK omfg
we should be trying to get rid of aids not treating it like its chickenpox mad
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Reply #10 posted 06/23/04 12:40pm

EvilWhiteMale

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I guess it's just a matter of "Live for the now" syndrome. They don't want to worry about any consequences in life, so they just do what feels good. I think it sucks that people have such low self worth, but I guess that's how it goes.
"You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." "

Al Pacino- Scarface
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Reply #11 posted 06/23/04 1:16pm

Ubiquity

[snippage.--Dansa]
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Reply #12 posted 06/23/04 1:33pm

JediMaster

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Ubiquity said:

[snippage.--Dansa]


I know you have issues with EWM, but now you're bashing him when he's starting a great, thought-provoking thread. Please keep it civil, and don't make cracks about AIDS. Its not something to joke about.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #13 posted 06/23/04 1:37pm

JediMaster

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Back to the topic, I read an article about a year ago in SPIN or Rolling Stone about this. I was pretty shocked, since I never in a million years believed that anyone would deliberately seek out the infection. If you've ever known anyone with full-blown AIDS, its too horrifying to imagine someone actually wanting it. To make matters worse, these are people who are spreading a disease, rather than be responsible and trying to prevent it. As if the AIDS virus needed any more help in being proliferated.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #14 posted 06/23/04 1:40pm

EvilWhiteMale

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JediMaster said:

Back to the topic, I read an article about a year ago in SPIN or Rolling Stone about this. I was pretty shocked, since I never in a million years believed that anyone would deliberately seek out the infection. If you've ever known anyone with full-blown AIDS, its too horrifying to imagine someone actually wanting it. To make matters worse, these are people who are spreading a disease, rather than be responsible and trying to prevent it. As if the AIDS virus needed any more help in being proliferated.



I agree. It's not just the person wanting AIDS for themselves, but they're putting future partners at risk as well. Nothing can get better by spreading the problem.
"You need people like me so you can point your fuckin' fingers and say, "That's the bad guy." "

Al Pacino- Scarface
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Reply #15 posted 06/23/04 2:53pm

BlueEyedAngel

This is just disgusting to me!!! Purposely infecting yourself with a fatal disease?!?! It is just another form of suicide!
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Reply #16 posted 06/23/04 3:10pm

ultrraviolette

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Ubiquity said:

eek EWM, you DID google! It's interesting, because you always say that you "don't care enough to take a closer look". Now it's obvious where your priorities lie.

It's obvious that you show immense interest in homosexuality and infectious diseases .. I wonder why lol


Aren't you the one that just recently made a post describing the proper ways to debate in this forum? An that they don't involve bashing individuals or straying from the topic? Take your own advice smile

Worst mistake: Throw unfunded claims into the discussion, often framed by emotional outbursts and name-calling.
lol
[This message was edited Wed Jun 23 15:12:14 2004 by ultrraviolette]
...:...Must I become naked?
No image at all?
Shall I remain upright?
Or get down and crawl?...:...
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Reply #17 posted 06/23/04 3:14pm

ultrraviolette

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I also read something about this in Rolling Stone a while back and was truly shocked. It's very sad that anyone would want to do this in order to become closer to their mate. It really goes to show you how isolated and hopeless this disease often makes people. sad
...:...Must I become naked?
No image at all?
Shall I remain upright?
Or get down and crawl?...:...
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Reply #18 posted 06/24/04 12:27am

bernie10

EvilWhiteMale said:

A friend of mine was watching Queer As Folk the other night and told me they were having "conversion parties." He described what it was all about and I was like "Shit, is this really going on?" So I looked it up and here's what I found:

http://www.rubbaboyz.net/...reback.htm

http://aids.about.com/lib...70401a.htm

Bug chasers are negative men who are looking to get infected; gift givers are men who are positive and willing to infect bug chasers. The gift refers to HIV and conversion parties are group sex parties where bug chasers allow themselves to get the gift. Bug brothers are a group of positive men and poz cum refers to the semen of an HIV positive man. There are many reasons why people would attend these parties that are advertised all over the internet, porn shops and bath houses. Gay men are tired of using condoms and feel that there is a cure or vaccine around the corner for HIV. Some men feel that if they just get infected, they will not have to worry about getting it anymore and can forget about the condoms altogether.

I mean, what the fuck is going on with this shit? How sick does a person have to be to want AIDS? I have no problem with dudes having orgy parties and stuff, but use a godamn hat for fuck's sake. There's nothing cool about having a disease like that.



I always had a problem with those men that were HIV positive or had AID and would deliberately spread the disease by lying to their sex partners. Now, this is a different story. I mean, who do you blame, do you blame anyone, do you need to blame anyone?

I say, yes, because some of those people may engage in sex with others and not tell their partners that their positive or have AIDS, but to think that they caught it deliberately so they can spread it to others, willing or unwillingly.

I just hope that persons that are against homosexuality don't begin to believe that ALL homosexuals believe in this or that we're all interested in spreading a disease. Most of us just want to find a same-sex partner or just want to have healthy sex with various partners.

It's a shame that some would condone such behavior of disease spreading and feel proud of it.
Everybody's free to feel good...so, be glad that you are free.
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Reply #19 posted 06/24/04 2:08am

Cloudbuster

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EvilWhiteMale said:

I would suggest they have the next party in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.


eyepop
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Reply #20 posted 06/24/04 8:43am

JediMaster

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EvilWhiteMale said:

JediMaster said:

Back to the topic, I read an article about a year ago in SPIN or Rolling Stone about this. I was pretty shocked, since I never in a million years believed that anyone would deliberately seek out the infection. If you've ever known anyone with full-blown AIDS, its too horrifying to imagine someone actually wanting it. To make matters worse, these are people who are spreading a disease, rather than be responsible and trying to prevent it. As if the AIDS virus needed any more help in being proliferated.



I agree. It's not just the person wanting AIDS for themselves, but they're putting future partners at risk as well. Nothing can get better by spreading the problem.


I just have to wonder at the logic (or lack thereof). I'm sure to many gays it DOES seem inevitable, but to just lay down and (literally) die is insanity.

So, what can be done to stop this?? Surely, many AIDS activists have to be up in arms over this. What is being proposed to deal with people INTENTIONALLY spreading this plague (and, at this point, AIDS is no longer an epidemic. It is a true plague)? The argument can be made that it is two consenting adults, but you're talking the spread of an infectious disease. If physician-assisted suicide is illegal, then this surely has to be. Can it be prosecuted as attempted murder? Would that be too extreme? Just throwing thoughts out there folks. Wanna get y'alls opinions.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #21 posted 06/24/04 8:56am

VoicesCarry

Cloudbuster said:

EvilWhiteMale said:

I would suggest they have the next party in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia.


eyepop


It's EWM - you expected sensitivity?

Anyway, I've known about this for a while, and it's pretty sad indeed.
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Reply #22 posted 06/24/04 8:59am

Dirt

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JediMaster said:


So, what can be done to stop this?? Surely, many AIDS activists have to be up in arms over this. What is being proposed to deal with people INTENTIONALLY spreading this plague (and, at this point, AIDS is no longer an epidemic. It is a true plague)? The argument can be made that it is two consenting adults, but you're talking the spread of an infectious disease. If physician-assisted suicide is illegal, then this surely has to be. Can it be prosecuted as attempted murder? Would that be too extreme? Just throwing thoughts out there folks. Wanna get y'alls opinions.


And what would happen when you prosecute them and throw them in jail?

They would spread the disease in jail.

Should they be executed? Or left to spread the disease while their in jail?

Maybe there needs to be more images of the suffering that AIDS causes. Maybe that would help prevent this type of destructive behavior.


Dirt

http://www.dirt.bz
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Reply #23 posted 06/24/04 9:08am

JediMaster

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Dirt said:

JediMaster said:


So, what can be done to stop this?? Surely, many AIDS activists have to be up in arms over this. What is being proposed to deal with people INTENTIONALLY spreading this plague (and, at this point, AIDS is no longer an epidemic. It is a true plague)? The argument can be made that it is two consenting adults, but you're talking the spread of an infectious disease. If physician-assisted suicide is illegal, then this surely has to be. Can it be prosecuted as attempted murder? Would that be too extreme? Just throwing thoughts out there folks. Wanna get y'alls opinions.


And what would happen when you prosecute them and throw them in jail?

They would spread the disease in jail.

Should they be executed? Or left to spread the disease while their in jail?

Maybe there needs to be more images of the suffering that AIDS causes. Maybe that would help prevent this type of destructive behavior.


Dirt

http://www.dirt.bz


Good points, all. Like I said, I'm not saying those things are the answers. I just want to get peoples thoughts on what should be done about it.

I really don't get this, coming from the gay community. These are people who have had this in their faces for a long time. They know first-hand the horrors of AIDS, so I cannot fathom them actually wanting to spread it. They are leading to the destruction of their own community!
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #24 posted 06/24/04 9:29am

Anxiety

JediMaster said:

I really don't get this, coming from the gay community. These are people who have had this in their faces for a long time. They know first-hand the horrors of AIDS, so I cannot fathom them actually wanting to spread it. They are leading to the destruction of their own community!


Dysfunctional is dysfunctional is dysfunctional. No "community" is exempt. Maybe this kind of behavior is a manifestation of everything that's thrown at gay folks - maybe it's how some people succumb to homophobia. Maybe it's symptomatic self-loathing behavior. It could be a lot of things, I suppose. I only really get concerned when people start looking at me, then looking at these fringe elements, and confusing one for the other. If that makes sense.
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Reply #25 posted 06/24/04 9:31am

SassyBritches

i'm convinced that a friend of mine participates in these things. he's never told me about them but he has told me about crystal meth parties where everyone just fucks everyone. it bothers me to no end for so many different reasons. this is my friend...a very close friend for years...and i am watching him kill himself, either through drugs or sex. he's never said whether or not he uses condoms but i know when you're high on crystal you don't have safe sex. knowing him as well as i do, i can quite confidantly say that he probably falls into the category of people who would just rather "get it over with" and get "the bug". he certainly has displayed many signs of low self-esteem and lack of confidance...this is only hidden (or exemplified) by his need to constanty have sex with new people and be the center of attention. he always needs the reassurance.

reading this thread just made me incredibly sad. we're never going to wake up, are we?
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Reply #26 posted 06/24/04 9:36am

JediMaster

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SassyBritches said:

i'm convinced that a friend of mine participates in these things. he's never told me about them but he has told me about crystal meth parties where everyone just fucks everyone. it bothers me to no end for so many different reasons. this is my friend...a very close friend for years...and i am watching him kill himself, either through drugs or sex. he's never said whether or not he uses condoms but i know when you're high on crystal you don't have safe sex. knowing him as well as i do, i can quite confidantly say that he probably falls into the category of people who would just rather "get it over with" and get "the bug". he certainly has displayed many signs of low self-esteem and lack of confidance...this is only hidden (or exemplified) by his need to constanty have sex with new people and be the center of attention. he always needs the reassurance.

reading this thread just made me incredibly sad. we're never going to wake up, are we?


I'm sorry to hear about your friend. I know firsthand how sad it is to watch someone you love slowly kill themselves.
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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Reply #27 posted 06/24/04 9:45am

VinnyM27

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I remember seeing part of a talk show with a guy looking for AIDS and I think it has less to do with not wearing condoms and more about community, in a sick way. The reason I think that gay men (and maybe, just maybe lesbains and bi-sexual women) are so sexual loose is becuase they are treated like the outkasts of soceity so they think that there is no reason to try to melt in the pot and have long lasting relationships. After all, they can't get married! People still don't think of gay men and women can be trusted with the
"honor" of marriage or to raise children. This almost isn't surprising and I'm sure it makes some people happy to be proven right, even though they are not and are in fact helping to promote this behavoir.
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Reply #28 posted 06/24/04 9:47am

VinnyM27

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Dirt said:

JediMaster said:


So, what can be done to stop this?? Surely, many AIDS activists have to be up in arms over this. What is being proposed to deal with people INTENTIONALLY spreading this plague (and, at this point, AIDS is no longer an epidemic. It is a true plague)? The argument can be made that it is two consenting adults, but you're talking the spread of an infectious disease. If physician-assisted suicide is illegal, then this surely has to be. Can it be prosecuted as attempted murder? Would that be too extreme? Just throwing thoughts out there folks. Wanna get y'alls opinions.


And what would happen when you prosecute them and throw them in jail?

They would spread the disease in jail.

Should they be executed? Or left to spread the disease while their in jail?

Maybe there needs to be more images of the suffering that AIDS causes. Maybe that would help prevent this type of destructive behavior.


Dirt

http://www.dirt.bz


Another criticism I've heard is that people think the "healthy" image of AIDs is doing more bad than good and prehaps the reason for this high risk behavoir.
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Reply #29 posted 06/24/04 9:51am

JediMaster

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Anxiety said:

JediMaster said:

I really don't get this, coming from the gay community. These are people who have had this in their faces for a long time. They know first-hand the horrors of AIDS, so I cannot fathom them actually wanting to spread it. They are leading to the destruction of their own community!


Dysfunctional is dysfunctional is dysfunctional. No "community" is exempt. Maybe this kind of behavior is a manifestation of everything that's thrown at gay folks - maybe it's how some people succumb to homophobia. Maybe it's symptomatic self-loathing behavior. It could be a lot of things, I suppose. I only really get concerned when people start looking at me, then looking at these fringe elements, and confusing one for the other. If that makes sense.


Makes total sense. You bring up some great points. I guess its just hard for me to fathom this, especially from a community that has been fighting this for so long. Just seems like a "giving up" type of attitude, to say the least. I personally don't get these fringe elements confused at all. Most gay men I know are shocked and disgusted by this behaviour. Obviously, as you said, there is some major dysfunction going on here. To actively seek a fatal disease speaks of the lowest self-esteem possible. Its really no different than SassyBritches friend who is trying to kill himself with drugs and what-not (but in the case of drugs, you at least have a chance of being able to later kick the habit. This is fatal, and there is no going back.)

I'm sure its easy for a straight man like myself to look at this with shock and horror. I haven't had to deal with many of the persecutions that destroy one's self-esteem. Still, I cannot see the logic in this at all. Why not just go ahead and kill yourself? At least that way you wouldn't be dragging anyone down with you. (I'm not advocating suicide here. I'd much rather people seek help if they have this low of an opinion of themselves. I'm just comparing the two and finding a lesser evil)
jedi

Do not hurry yourself in your spirit to become offended, for the taking of offense is what rests in the bosom of the stupid ones. (Ecclesiastes 7:9)
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