The name of God

Since all of the JW's are coming out of the woodwork again, I have another question. This is not meant to piss you guys off but it is a curiosity to me...
Now correct me if I'm wrong,but wasn't the true name of God lost. I was taught or either read somewhere that the name of God was lost my the Hewbrews because they thought that it was to too sacred to say or write. So they used YHWH or JHVH instead. If the Hebrews, from which Christianity came from thought that the name of God was too sacred to utter, why do you feel that it is ok to utter it. And also, since the name was lost, how are you even sure that Jehovah is God's true name?
I understand that "god" is a title and not a name. But couldn't throwing God's name around like that, if it is even God's name disrepspectful. You don't call your parents by thier first names. You call them by thier title...mom and dad. Why is it different with someone much more important?

God has a name...and it's on your Driver's Licence

Ardeo said:

illimack said:

Ardeo said:

God has a name...and it's on your Driver's Licence

I'm being serious here Ardeo. Come on now...

Hell, where did they all go? Mabye they only reply to the questions about homosexual lifestyles.

illimack said:

Hell, where did they all go? Mabye they only reply to the questions about homosexual lifestyles.

illimack said:

Ardeo said:

God has a name...and it's on your Driver's Licence

I'm being serious here Ardeo. Come on now...

Essence said:

illimack said:

Ardeo said:

God has a name...and it's on your Driver's Licence

I'm being serious here Ardeo. Come on now...

He's being serious in assuring you as your own personal "god".

The truth is, JW's are as dumb as those people who followed Graham Chapman around thinking he was the Messiah in Life of Brian. They mistakenly started following some ancient guy named Jehovah because their founder got bored with legitimate Christianity and thought he could make some money off mindless people by creating a combination religion/publishing company. Also see L Ron Hubbard and Scientology.

O.K. guys. The purpose of this post is not to bash the JW's or thier religion...I'm sure that if one wanted to, they could say something negative about any religion. I was just wondering about the way that they throw the "name" of "God" around when I thought that no one really knew what the name of "God" really is. Mabye when one of them comes back to the sight I'll get a legit answer from a JW?

illimack said:

O.K. guys. The purpose of this post is not to bash the JW's or thier religion...I'm sure that if one wanted to, they could say something negative about any religion. I was just wondering about the way that they throw the "name" of "God" around when I thought that no one really knew what the name of "God" really is. Mabye when one of them comes back to the sight I'll get a legit answer from a JW?

Is the answer really there? I have an old busted up computer so I'm not a member. What does it say about this? I would really like to get an answer from a peron though so if I have any questions I can ask them.

The fact is, even the name "Jesus" does not appear in any Hebrew or Greek manuscripts of the Bible. Why? Because Jesus is an Anglicized form of the Hebrew word Yeshua or Yehoshua and the Greek word Iesous. So, in this vein, the word Jehovah does not appear in Hebrew or Greek manuscripts of the Bible just as EVERY OTHER NAME in the Bible does not appear in Hebrew or Greek manuscripts of the Bible. The Bible was not written in English, simply put.

The New American Standard Version and The New International Version, instead of using any Divine Name, use the word LORD in its place. Did you know the word LORD is not in any Hebrew or Greek manuscripts of the Bible. It comes from the Hebrew word ADONAI and the Greek word KYRIOS.

The best way to determine Bible pronunciations by looking at how the Bible renders other names with the same letters. How does the Bible use other names that incorporate part of the Divine Name?
Here are Bible names that use the 1st part of the Divine Name:

Jehoaddah (literally YEHOADDA)
Jehoaddan (literally YEHOADDAN)
Jehoahaz (literally YEHOAHAZ)
Jehoash (literally YEHOAS)
Jehohanan (literally YEHOHANAN)
Jehoiachin (literally YEHOYAKIN)
Jehoiada (literally YEHOYADA)
Jehoiakim (literally YEHOYAQIM)
Jehoiarib (literally YEHOYARIB)
Jehonadab (literally YEHONADAB)
Jehonathan (literally YEHONATAN)
Jehoram (literally YEHORAM)
Jehoshabeath (literally YEHOSABAT)
Jehoshaphat (literally YEHOSAPAT)
Jehosheba (literally YEHOSEBA)
Jehoshua (literally YEHOSUA)
Jehozabad (literally YEHOZABAD)
Jehozadak (literally YEHOSADAQ)

The words above, starting with "J" are the ones that we have in pretty well all English Bibles. But none of these words are in the Hebrew Bible, according to the same reasoning that Ron Rhodes uses. None of the above words that start with "J" appear in any Hebrew or Greek manuscript. In fact, neither are the literal renderings, since they are transliterations. Why? Because Hebrew is Hebrew, and English is English.

As we can see, Jehovah is an acceptable form of the Tetragrammaton in the English language, in fact, it is more acceptable the oft transliterated Yahweh. Francis B. Denio, who studied and taught Hebrew for 40 years says:

"Jehovah misrepresents Yahweh no more that Jeremiah misrepresents Yirmeyahu. The settled connotation of Isaiah and Jeremiah forbid questioning their right. Usage has given them the connotations proper for designating the personalities which these words represent. Much the same is true of Jehovah. It is not barbarism. It has already many of the connotations needed for the proper name of the covenant God of Israel. There is no other word which can faintly compare with it. For centuries it has been gathering these connotations. No other word approaches this name in fullness of associations required. The use of any other word falls so far short of the proper ideas that it is a serious blemish in a translation."

Notice the very interesting statements in the Catholic Encyclopedia :

"Jehovah (Yahweh): The proper name of God in the Old Testament; hence the Jews called it the name by excellence, the great name, the only name,... Finally, the word is found even in the "Pugio fidei" of Raymund Martin, a work written about 1270 (ed. Paris, 1651, pt. III, dist. ii, cap. iii, p. 448, and Note, p. 745). PROBABLY THE INTRODUCTION OF THE NAME JEHOVAH ANTEDATES EVEN R. MARTIN. No wonder then that this form has been regarded as the true pronunciation of the Divine name by such scholars as Michaelis ("Supplementa ad lexica hebraica", I, 1792, p. 524), Drach (loc. cit., I, 469-98), Stier (Lehrgebäude der hebr. Sprache, 327), and others."

What of Michaelis? Johann David Michaelis in his German translation of the Old Testament of the eighteenth century...said in part: "On the other hand, the name Jehovah [ Jehova in German] is used. . . . so I considered it to be a matter of integrity in translation to identify it, even though it might not always be pleasing to the German ear." ...Several of my friends insisted that I not at all insert this foreign word. . . . Jehovah is a Nomen Proprium, and, just as properly as I retain other nomina propria [such as] Abraham, Isaac, Jacob... In the translation of a classical author one would not have the slightest hesitance toward the use of the names Jupiter, Apollo [and] Diana; and why then should the name of the Only True God sound more offensive? I do not therefore see why I should not use the name Jehovah in the German Bible."

"How God's Name Was Pronounced
Biblical Archaeology Review, Mar./Apr. 1995 Volume 21 Number 2; page 30:
"1) Among the magical papyri the name appears as IAWOUHE (Ya-oh-oo-ay-eh), but it is difficult to know how much this pronunciation had to do with the Tetragrammaton...so it is not certain how many of these syllables were thought to belong to the name. At least, however, it has more syllables than two, and the central vowel is not omitted, as is done in Yah-weh.

"2) Clement of Alexandria spelled the Tetragrammaton IAOAI (Ya-oo-ai), IAOE (Ya-oo-eh), and IAO (Ya-oh). In none of these is the central oo or oh vowel omitted.

"3) Rabbis often deduced the meaning of a word by taking the word apart and interpreting each part...By this logic Clement argued that the Tetragrammaton had the same consonants as the verb "to be," so it meant the one who caused things to be, but he did not pronounce the word
according to any form of that verb. His conjecture was homiletic ally thought provoking, but not scientifically or historically correct...Reams of paper and gallons of ink have been expended over the years justifying a pronunciation Westerners deduced on the basis of Clement's conjecture. It may all be irrelevant to the subject...The word spelled Ya-hoo or Ya-hoh may have been pronounced Yahowah or Yahoowah, but in no case is the vowel oo or oh omitted. The word was sometimes abbreviated as "Ya," but never as "Ya-weh." This can be illustrated further by studying the proper names of the Bible that were based on the Tetragrammaton...Yah-ho-na-than..."Yaho-cha-nan"...Eli-yahoo ...Anyone who cares to check the concordances will find that there is no name in the entire Scriptures that includes the
Tetragrammaton and also omits the vowel that is left out in the two-syllable pronunciation Rainey upholds.

"There is still one other clue to the pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton— Hebrew poetry. For example, from the poem of Exodus 15, read aloud verses 1, 3, 6, 11, 17 and 18, first pronouncing the Tetragrammaton as "Yahweh" and then read it again, pronouncing the same
word as "Yahowah." Notice the rhyme and poetic beat of the two. In this way the reader can judge which one is the more likely pronunciation used in antiquity.

"The name "Yahowah" is not a ghost word, as Rainey declared. Clement of Alexandria's conjecture that the Tetragrammaton was based on the verb "to be" overlooks the pronunciation of the proper names in the Scripture that include some portion of the Tetragrammaton. Clement did not have access to the scrolls and may never have seen the Aramaic Papyri.
Nevertheless, he spelled the Tetragrammaton in Greek employing the central vowel that Rainey omitted in his determination that the proper name was Yahweh...

The way Rudolf Kittle translates YHWH is more accurate than "Yahweh", he translates it "Yehowah. Why? Became YHWH is a 3 syllable word, not a two syllable word like "Yahweh" is. George Buchanan of Wesley Theological Seminary favors the use of "Yahowah" or "Yahoowah."
He explains how he came up with those: "In ancient times, parents often named their children after their deities. That means that they would have pronounced their children's names the way the deity's name was pronounced. The Tetragrammaton was used in people's names, and they always used the middle vowel." A few examples of proper names found in the Bible that
include the shortened form of God's name are Jonathan, which appears as Yohnathan or Yehohnathan in Hebrew. It means "Yaho or Yahowah has given." Elijah's name is Eliyah or Eliyahu in Hebrew, which means: "My God is Yahoo or Yahoo-wah." Also, Jehoshaphat is Yehohshaphat meaning "Yaho has judged."
The two syllable pronunciation of YHWH as "Yahweh" would not allow for the "o" vowel sound to exist as part of God's name. But in dozens of Biblical names that incorporate the divine name, this middle vowel sound appears in both the original and the shortened forms, as in Jehonathan and Jonathan. Professor Buchanan says about God's name: "In no case is the vowel oo or oh omitted. The word was sometimes abbreviated as 'Ya,' but never as 'Ya-weh.'... When the Tetragrammaton was pronounced in one syllable it was 'Yah' or 'Yo.' When it was pronounced in three syllables it would have been 'Yahowah' or 'Yahoowa.' If it was ever abbreviated to two syllables it would have been 'Yaho.' " (Biblical Archaeology Review)

Gesenius in his Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon of the Old Testament Scriptures agrees saying: "Those who consider that YHWH [Yehowah] was the actual pronunciation are not altogether without ground on which to defend their opinion. In this way can the abbreviated syllables YHW [Yeho] and YH [Yo], with which many proper names begin, be more satisfactorily explained." -George Wesley Buchanan
Professor Emeritus, Wesley Theological Seminary Washington, DC

However, if the word were spelled with four letters in Moses' day, we would expect it to have had more than two syllables, for at that period there were no vowel letters. All the letters were sounded. At the end of the OT period the Elephantine papyri write the word YHW to be read either yahu (as in names like Shemayahu) or yaho (as in names like Jehozadek). The pronunciation yaho would be favored by the later Greek from iao found in Qumran Greek fragments (2d or 1st centuries B.C.) and in Gnostic materials of the first Christian centuries.—Theological Wordbook of the
Old Testament


"In the history of the English language however, the letter J has a written counterpart in the German J, although the latter J in German is pronounced like an English Y. The bulk of theological studies having come from the German sources, there has been an intermixed usage in English of the J and the Y. Our English translations of the bible reflect this, so we have chosen to use J, thus Jehovah, rather than Yahweh, because this is established English usage for Biblical names beginning with this Hebrew letters. No one suggests that we ought to change Jacob, Joseph, Jehoshaphat, Joshua etc. to begin with a Y, and neither should we at this late date change Jehovah to Yahweh." -Bible Translator Jay P. Green, Sr.

Girdlestones says: "It is generally agreed that Jehovah [unlike Elohim] is not a generic or class name, but a personal or proper name. Maimonides says this is called the Plain name. [Another] says: It is every where a proper name, denoting the person of God, and Him only; whence Elohim partakes more of the character of a common noun.

"The Hebrew may say the Elohim, the true God, in opposition to all false Gods; but he never says the Jehovah, for Jehovah is the name of the true God only! He says my God, but never my Jehovah; the God of Israel, but never the Jehovah of Israel, for there is no other Jehovah, the living God but never of the living Jehovah.

"God's personal existence, the continuity of His dealings with man, the unchange-ableness of his promises, and the whole revelation of his redeeming mercy gather round the name Jehovah.

"In the 3rd chapt. of Genesis it may be noted that THE SERPENT AVOIDS THE USE OF THE NAME."—Girdlestones Synonyms of the Old Testament; 36-38:

"Knowing another's name was a special privilege that offered access to that persons thought and life...God favored His people by revealing [his name] which offered special insight into his love and righteousness."
-Illustrated Bi. Dict.

It might be added here that the meaning of Jesus, is, according to Weymouth: "Jehovah is Salvation." So every time anyone uses this name, Jesus, (which is not the original pronunciation of it in the 1st century) he is using and supporting the form of The Divine Name JEHOVAH
in the N.T.

( sources quoted here aquired from www.yhwhbible.ca.tc and http://stirinc.org/dncvol1.htm . Also see www.divinename.net for the book by Hebrew Scholar, Gérard Gertoux and http://www.watchtower.org.../index.htm for the online version of the brochure published by Jehovah's Witnesses titled "The Divine Name That Will Endure Forever )
[This message was edited Fri Aug 22 0:40:58 PDT 2003 by Bibleteacher89]

Now you know that I am not about to read all that. I'm here at work for 16 hours but I am not THAT bored.

I am well aware that "jesus" is a English translation of Yeshua...but Jesus' name was not"lost". The same can not be said of the name of God. Does all that rambling that you printed...( please don't take offense but that is just too much to read) refute that the ancient Hebrews did not utter the name of God because they considered it too sacred and therefore the "true" name was lost? And since the hebrews, from which Christianity came from, considered it to be too sacred and holy to say, why do you feel that it's okay to say it? Like I asked, you don't call your parents by thier first name...that would be disrepectful. Why do you feel that it's ok with God?

Why call God Jehovah? Or what difference does it make?
Calling God Jehovah doesnot make you special in God's eyes.
JWs is just another religion like other religions.
The name Jehovah isnot in the new testament of the bible.

All right Bibleteach, I read most of your post. It does seem to me by what you posted that there is debate about the name and pronounciation. So how can you be so sure?

illimack said:

Maybe his real name is Santa Claus?

Both are based on no fact, and rely on faith.

Can someone tell me the difference?

One thing that really bothers me about the notion of addressing god by his proper name, as is espoused by JWs, is that it can't matter whether or not someone knows the name of God. What if someone is not privy to this knowledge and someone calls out to God, do you mean to tell me that God is so vain that he will not head that person's call because they didn't call him by his name?

JWs I've asked this question of say that God would not respond. So arrogant and totally pointless...

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

A Jewish superstition that arose among a certain sect of Jews is what caused God's name to erroneously not be spoken. This was not even a uniform belief. Indeed, the Pharasses did not even agree with it for the longest time. There is plenty of evidence suggesting that God's name continued to be used well into the 1st century C.E. and even beyond. It had not continued to be used as frequently as this unfounded superstition spread among the religious leaders of the day. However, what does God have to say on the matter. Once again, it's not what you or I think that matters. We have to get God's viewpoint on the matter. Does Jehovah (Yehowah) ever once tell his people not to say his name? Hardly, but thousands upon thousands of times it was used in the Bible. More than all of Jehovah's titles (ie: LORD, God, etc.) are found used put together. In the Bible, He urges us to call on his name. In fact, it is spoken of as the way to salvation. He is said to choose a people for his name. Kinda silly if the name is some big secret. No, on the contrary, even Jesus made the sanctification of his father's name the apex of his ministry. The Lord's Prayer starts out how? He says to pray for God's name to be sanctified.

It was not merely by chance that Jesus taught his followers to put God's name first in their prayers. That name was clearly of crucial importance to him, since he mentioned it repeatedly in his own prayers. On one occasion when he was praying publicly to God, he was heard to say: "Father, glorify your name!" And God himself answered: "I have glorified it, and I will glorify it again."—John 12:28, The Jerusalem Bible.

The evening before Jesus died, he was praying to God in the hearing of his disciples, and once again they heard him highlight the importance of God's name. He said: "I have made your name known to the men you took from the world to give me." Later, he repeated: "I have made your name known to them and will continue to make it known."—John 17:6, 26, JB.

Jehovah's name is and was not lost. Millions today proclaim his name all over the earth in hundreds of languages. The churches of Christendom who try and guise God's identity and cloud people's thinking on the matter no longer can hide it.

The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology (Volume 2, page 649) says: "One of the most fundamental and essential features of the biblical revelation is the fact that God is not without a name: he has a personal name, by which he can, and is to be, invoked." Jesus certainly had that name in mind when he taught his followers to pray: "Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified."—Matthew 6:9

The facts show that not only is the name of God extremely important to know and use, but that because of a man-made tradition (a recurring theme) we see the erroneous halting of using God's name and later the removal of the Divine Name from the Bible. This is a crime against God. This is not something to be emulated or spoken of as if it were some admirable thing. Read the Bible. Read it well. Do your due diligence and research the issue. You will see just how important God's name is.

"EVERYONE who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved." -Romans 10:13

"Those knowing your name will trust in you, for you will certainly not leave those looking for you, O Jehovah."—Psalm 9:10.

"'Jehovah . . .' This is my name to time indefinite, and this is the memorial of me to generation after generation."—Exodus 3:15.

"In that day you will certainly say: 'Give thanks to Jehovah, you people! Call upon his name. Make known among the peoples his dealings. Make mention that his name is put on high. Make melody to Jehovah, for he has done surpassingly. This is made known in all the earth.'"—Isaiah 12:4, 5.

"Symeon has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name." -Acts 15:14.

(Could you be identified with those whom God takes out to be a "people for his name" if you fail to use or bear that name?)

"Because on me he has set his affection, I shall also provide him with escape. I shall protect him because he has come to know my name." -Psalm 91:14

"At that time those in fear of Jehovah spoke with one another, each one with his companion, and Jehovah kept paying attention and listening. And a book of remembrance began to be written up before him for those in fear of Jehovah and for those thinking upon his name."—Malachi 3:16.

"All the peoples, for their part, will walk each one in the name of its god; but we, for our part, shall walk in the name of Jehovah our God to time indefinite, even forever."—Micah 4:5.

Bibleteacher89 said:

Bibleteacher89 said:

And now I see the face of god, and I raise this god over the earth, this god whom men have sought since men came into being, this god who will grant them joy and peace and pride.

This god, this one word:

"I."

I think his name is Bob.

"Think inside out."

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I AM

I AM King BAD a.k.a. BAD,
YOU EITHER WANNA BE ME, OR BE JUST LIKE ME
™

Actually in the Greek scriptures some translators put the name Jehovah in where it was "quoted" from the Hebrew scriptures. So if someone was quoting from the Hebrew scriptures while writing in Greek they thus placed the divine name in as well. That is one reason why the name does appear in the Greek scriptures. And Jehovah is perfection and intelligent enough to know who "knows" and who "doesn't know" the pronounciation of his divine name and will act in reference to that individual as he see's fit.He acted in reference to faithful ones prior to the revelation of his sacred name and he can do so now. Bibleteacher made and makes excellent presentations of answers to threads. For people to "knock" his effort to help people truly understand in my eyes honestly is sad.

I call Him Daddy.

namepeace said:

"Think inside out."