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Reply #540 posted 02/12/19 5:08pm

benni

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herb4 said:

This hs nothing to do with Russia but all this talk of another shutdown amidst arguments about funding for Trumps stupid fucking wall...

I thought MEXICO was supposed to pay for this dumb thing?

Any word on their contributions so far? Why don't the democrats get out in front of this messaging and drive it home? Trump said it 100 times on the campaign trail.


They tried, but Trump came back with the "I didn't mean they would literally write us a check." His supporters are not saying, "Well, when he was saying it, we all knew he didn't mean it, we were laughing about it when we would chant "Mexico will pay for the wall"." <--- I literally had a Trump supporter say those exact words.

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Reply #541 posted 02/12/19 5:30pm

2elijah

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DiminutiveRocker said:



benni said:




2elijah said:


DiminutiveRocker said: Yes. On the other hand, I can’t believe Cohen backed out again. [Edited 2/12/19 7:28am]


I can. He's running scared. Trump threatened his father-in-law, I believe? Cohen may not feel like he can go up against Trump at this point.




Wait, what? - I thought Cohen was subpeonaed ?


Me too, but it’s been reported that it’s been postponed for a later date due to “post surgery medical needs.”

https://www.google.com/ur...7875337967

Michael Cohen postpones congressional testimony for a third time


By Jeremy Herb and Evan Perez, CNN

Updated 6:10 PM EST, Mon February 11, 2019


“President Donald Trump's former personal lawyer Michael Cohen has scored a hat trick when it comes to postponing congressional testimony.

For the third time this month, Cohen's scheduled congressional testimony has been delayed, as his attorney said Monday that Cohen's Senate Intelligence Committee appearance this week had been pushed back.

"The Senate Select Committee on Intelligence has accepted Mr. Cohen's request for postponement of tomorrow's hearing due to post surgery medical needs. A future date will be announced by the committee," his attorney Lanny Davis said in a statement.”
[Edited 2/12/19 17:36pm]
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Reply #542 posted 02/12/19 5:33pm

herb4

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Well, maybe Trump can cut another shady deal with Russia and get them to finance it through NRA contributions and mob money? Pretty sure this is what he meant by persuing "other avenues"

Come to think of it, if Trump is so rich, why doesn't he just pay for it himself and put big stupid gold MAGA letters on it?

"Walls Save Lives"

Suck on a turd, you childish fat ignorant fascist swine.

Trump and his followers are the type of people who watch Wall Street, A Few Good Men and Glengary Glen Ross and think that Gecko, Jessup and Alec Baldwin are the heroic characters.


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Reply #543 posted 02/12/19 6:31pm

DiminutiveRock
er

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herb4 said:

Well, maybe Trump can cut another shady deal with Russia and get them to finance it through NRA contributions and mob money? Pretty sure this is what he meant by persuing "other avenues"

Come to think of it, if Trump is so rich, why doesn't he just pay for it himself and put big stupid gold MAGA letters on it?

"Walls Save Lives"

Suck on a turd, you childish fat ignorant fascist swine.

Trump and his followers are the type of people who watch Wall Street, A Few Good Men and Glengary Glen Ross and think that Gecko, Jessup and Alec Baldwin are the heroic characters.




Trump does not like to pay for anything....

"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #544 posted 02/13/19 6:28am

benni

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Good job by CNN:


https://www.cnn.com/inter...-then-now/

This is a side by side comparison on where Trump, Trump's team members, have changed their stories over and over about Russia and their dealings with Russia.

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Reply #545 posted 02/13/19 6:40am

Musicslave

herb4 said:

Well, maybe Trump can cut another shady deal with Russia and get them to finance it through NRA contributions and mob money? Pretty sure this is what he meant by persuing "other avenues"

Come to think of it, if Trump is so rich, why doesn't he just pay for it himself and put big stupid gold MAGA letters on it?

"Walls Save Lives"

Suck on a turd, you childish fat ignorant fascist swine.

Trump and his followers are the type of people who watch Wall Street, A Few Good Men and Glengary Glen Ross and think that Gecko, Jessup and Alec Baldwin are the heroic characters.


-

nod Yup. All while waiting on their goverment welfare checks and SNAP cards for groceries. Biggest con job in history.

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Reply #546 posted 02/13/19 7:04am

poppys

Musicslave said:

herb4 said:

Well, maybe Trump can cut another shady deal with Russia and get them to finance it through NRA contributions and mob money? Pretty sure this is what he meant by persuing "other avenues"

Come to think of it, if Trump is so rich, why doesn't he just pay for it himself and put big stupid gold MAGA letters on it?

"Walls Save Lives"

Suck on a turd, you childish fat ignorant fascist swine.

Trump and his followers are the type of people who watch Wall Street, A Few Good Men and Glengary Glen Ross and think that Gecko, Jessup and Alec Baldwin are the heroic characters.


-

nod Yup. All while waiting on their goverment welfare checks and SNAP cards for groceries. Biggest con job in history.


Michael Douglas did an interview recently. He said people come up to him all the time and want to shake his hand just because he played Gordon Gecko, a hero. He says no, no, no. Some call him Gordon too.

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Reply #547 posted 02/13/19 8:08am

Musicslave

poppys said:

Musicslave said:

-

nod Yup. All while waiting on their goverment welfare checks and SNAP cards for groceries. Biggest con job in history.


Michael Douglas did an interview recently. He said people come up to him all the time and want to shake his hand just because he played Gordon Gecko, a hero. He says no, no, no. Some call him Gordon too.

-

I guess characters like Gecko gives the "little guy" hope. False hope but hope nonetheless.

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Reply #548 posted 02/13/19 9:00am

herb4

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Musicslave said:

poppys said:


Michael Douglas did an interview recently. He said people come up to him all the time and want to shake his hand just because he played Gordon Gecko, a hero. He says no, no, no. Some call him Gordon too.

-

I guess characters like Gecko gives the "little guy" hope.


How? I took the exact oppostie message from that film

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Reply #549 posted 02/13/19 2:57pm

benni

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THREAD: Let's talk about direct vs circumstantial evidence. The law treats them the same. @SenatorBurr says there's no "direct evidence of collusion" b/w Trump & Russians. Put aside the fact that @MarkWarner doesn't agree w/ this. What matters is if there's evidence of collusion.

2/ Every juror in America is told "Both direct and circumstantial evidence are acceptable types of evidence to prove or disprove the elements of a charge...and neither is necessarily more reliable than the other. NEITHER is entitled to any greater weight than the other."

3/ What is circumstantial evidence? Suppose I’m trying to prove that my son Nelson ate some freshly baked brownies that we made together. When I turned away, all of the brownies were out. When I turned back, one was gone...

4/ I didn't see Nelson eat a brownie -- that would be direct evidence. But when I returned, he had crumbs on his shirt, and chocolate on his lips and fingers. That would be considered circumstantial evidence that Nelson ate a brownie.

5/ It's not direct, but that doesn't matter. The law says it's treated exactly the same way. So, @SenatorBurr, have you seen any circumstantial evidence of collusion? #RussiaInvestigation

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Reply #550 posted 02/13/19 2:59pm

RodeoSchro

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benni said:



THREAD: Let's talk about direct vs circumstantial evidence. The law treats them the same. @SenatorBurr says there's no "direct evidence of collusion" b/w Trump & Russians. Put aside the fact that @MarkWarner doesn't agree w/ this. What matters is if there's evidence of collusion.

2/ Every juror in America is told "Both direct and circumstantial evidence are acceptable types of evidence to prove or disprove the elements of a charge...and neither is necessarily more reliable than the other. NEITHER is entitled to any greater weight than the other."

3/ What is circumstantial evidence? Suppose I’m trying to prove that my son Nelson ate some freshly baked brownies that we made together. When I turned away, all of the brownies were out. When I turned back, one was gone...

4/ I didn't see Nelson eat a brownie -- that would be direct evidence. But when I returned, he had crumbs on his shirt, and chocolate on his lips and fingers. That would be considered circumstantial evidence that Nelson ate a brownie.

5/ It's not direct, but that doesn't matter. The law says it's treated exactly the same way. So, @SenatorBurr, have you seen any circumstantial evidence of collusion? #RussiaInvestigation



Brilliant!

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #551 posted 02/13/19 4:09pm

RodeoSchro

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BREAKING - Judge rules Paul Manafort deliberately lied, voids his plea deal.

This is a biggie.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #552 posted 02/13/19 4:16pm

DiminutiveRock
er

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RodeoSchro said:

BREAKING - Judge rules Paul Manafort deliberately lied, voids his plea deal.

This is a biggie.

He is going down..............................


https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/13/us/politics/manafort-mueller.html?emc=edit_na_20190213&nl=breaking-news&nlid=48279265ing-news&ref=cta


The decision by Judge Amy Berman Jackson of United States District Court may affect the sentence she hands out in the coming weeks to Mr. Manafort, 69. Judge Jackson said that Mr. Manafort had intentionally lied about his contacts with a Russian associate during the campaign and after Mr. Trump was elected.

Prosecutors have said that the associate, Konstantin V. Kilimnik, has ties to Russian intelligence services. The judge also found that Mr. Manafort had lied about a payment that was routed through a pro-Trump political action committee to cover his legal bills, and about information relevant to another undisclosed investigation underway at the Justice Department.

Mr. Manafort was convicted last year of eight felonies, including tax and bank fraud. He later pleaded guilty to two additional conspiracy counts in a case before Judge Jackson, and agreed at that point to cooperate with prosecutors from the office of the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III.





[Edited 2/13/19 16:17pm]

"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #553 posted 02/13/19 4:56pm

herb4

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"Paul who? He was a coffee runner. Never heard of him. Witch Hunt! No collusion! Hillary!!!"

*piles lies on top of lies*

*hides tax returns*

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Reply #554 posted 02/13/19 4:57pm

poppys

Guess he's banking on an orange trash pardon.

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Reply #555 posted 02/13/19 5:13pm

2elijah

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poppys said:

Guess he's banking on an orange trash pardon.


What if trump pardons him?
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Reply #556 posted 02/13/19 5:25pm

DiminutiveRock
er

avatar

2elijah said:

poppys said:

Guess he's banking on an orange trash pardon.

What if trump pardons him?

he could (which would be unwise) but the SDNY is also on his tail, I believe

"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #557 posted 02/13/19 5:40pm

poppys

2elijah said:

poppys said:

Guess he's banking on an orange trash pardon.


What if trump pardons him?

IDK. I guess he gets convicted, goes to jail and Trump pardons him after 10 minutes. This article has some of the details about what is going on.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/paul-manafort-trump-pardon-robert-mueller-cooperation


Mueller Team Believes Potential Trump Pardon Tainted Manafort’s Cooperation

By Josh Kovensky
February 11, 2019 11:30 am

Last week’s release of the court transcript of a pre-sentencing hearing offered a rare view inside special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation.

But like jazz, what the document doesn’t say is arguably more important than what’s spelled out.

The transcript shows that Mueller’s team was deeply concerned that Manafort – after he had pleaded guilty and agreed to cooperate them – continued to lie in hopes of receiving a pardon from President Trump...

As special counsel prosecutor Andrew Weissmann explained to U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson regarding why the government decided that Manafort has breached his plea agreement, “there was an unusual factor.”

“The second unusual factor, which was REDACTED the normal motives and incentives that are built into a cooperation agreement.”

It’s not immediately clear from the redaction what effect the “unusual factor” had on the “normal motives and incentives” that come as part of agreeing to cooperate with federal prosecutors in a criminal case. But as the hearing progressed, Weissmann spoke further about the issue of Manafort allegedly lying to prosecutors, and how the incentive structure to encourage cooperation and discourage dishonesty seemed askew in Manafort’s case...

[Edited 2/13/19 17:53pm]

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Reply #558 posted 02/13/19 5:50pm

DiminutiveRock
er

avatar

poppys said:

2elijah said:

poppys said:
What if trump pardons him?

IDK. I guess he gets convicted, goes to jail and Trump pardons him after 10 minutes. This article has some of the details about what is going on.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/paul-manafort-trump-pardon-robert-mueller-cooperation


Mueller Team Believes Potential Trump Pardon Tainted Manafort’s Cooperation

By Josh Kovensky
February 11, 2019 11:30 am

Last week’s release of the court transcript of a pre-sentencing hearing offered a rare view inside special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation.

But like jazz, what the document doesn’t say is arguably more important than what’s spelled out.

The transcript shows that Mueller’s team was deeply concerned that Manafort – after he had pleaded guilty and agreed to cooperate them – continued to lie in hopes of receiving a pardon from President Trump...

[Edited 2/13/19 17:43pm]

Fox Viewers! Hannity Fans! It's Ok to pardon a man who has broken the law and lied to to law enforcement, right? You'd agree with that?

"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #559 posted 02/13/19 6:05pm

2elijah

avatar

DiminutiveRocker said:



2elijah said:


poppys said:

Guess he's banking on an orange trash pardon.



What if trump pardons him?


he could (which would be unwise) but the SDNY is also on his tail, I believe


It’s amazing to know so many criminals were once part of trump’s team... yet he says he picks the best people.. :falloff:

Yes, I believe SDNY is investigating his campaign/inaugural committee.
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Reply #560 posted 02/13/19 6:06pm

2elijah

avatar

poppys said:



2elijah said:


poppys said:

Guess he's banking on an orange trash pardon.




What if trump pardons him?


IDK. I guess he gets convicted, goes to jail and Trump pardons him after 10 minutes. This article has some of the details about what is going on.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/paul-manafort-trump-pardon-robert-mueller-cooperation




Mueller Team Believes Potential Trump Pardon Tainted Manafort’s Cooperation




By Josh Kovensky

February 11, 2019 11:30 am





Last week’s release of the court transcript of a pre-sentencing hearing offered a rare view inside special counsel Robert Mueller’s Russia investigation.


But like jazz, what the document doesn’t say is arguably more important than what’s spelled out.


The transcript shows that Mueller’s team was deeply concerned that Manafort – after he had pleaded guilty and agreed to cooperate them – continued to lie in hopes of receiving a pardon from President Trump...


As special counsel prosecutor Andrew Weissmann explained to U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson regarding why the government decided that Manafort has breached his plea agreement, “there was an unusual factor.”


“The second unusual factor, which was REDACTED the normal motives and incentives that are built into a cooperation agreement.”


It’s not immediately clear from the redaction what effect the “unusual factor” had on the “normal motives and incentives” that come as part of agreeing to cooperate with federal prosecutors in a criminal case. But as the hearing progressed, Weissmann spoke further about the issue of Manafort allegedly lying to prosecutors, and how the incentive structure to encourage cooperation and discourage dishonesty seemed askew in Manafort’s case...




[Edited 2/13/19 17:53pm]


Thanks Poppy.
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Reply #561 posted 02/13/19 6:23pm

poppys

You are very welcome 2elijah. Manafort, and Cohen too - all hooked into the Russian mob for decades. Good times! party

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Reply #562 posted 02/14/19 6:26am

Musicslave

DiminutiveRocker said:

2elijah said:

poppys said: What if trump pardons him?

he could (which would be unwise) but the SDNY is also on his tail, I believe

-

State charges would nullify any pardons for Federal charges. I don't think he'd be off the hook that easy. Remember, Mueller doesn't have to show the cards he's holding. He could recommend State charges to the SDNY or Virginia and Manafort would be legally untouchable from a trump pardon.

-

Although Manafort rolled the dice for a pardon from trump on the surface. I tend to believe he's not being cooperative on purpose to preserve his life from the Russian mob. But that's just me.

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Reply #563 posted 02/14/19 6:30am

Musicslave

poppys said:

You are very welcome 2elijah. Manafort, and Cohen too - all hooked into the Russian mob for decades. Good times! party

-

I wouldn't be surprised. Especially Manafort. If Cohen has ties it's likely because of doing trump bidding. Like most in trumpworld, he might have tried to establish some business for himself on the side though. I wouldn't put it pass him. Everything is possible with this crew.

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Reply #564 posted 02/14/19 6:33am

poppys

Musicslave said:

DiminutiveRocker said:

he could (which would be unwise) but the SDNY is also on his tail, I believe

-

State charges would nullify any pardons for Federal charges. I don't think he'd be off the hook that easy. Remember, Mueller doesn't have to show the cards he's holding. He could recommend State charges to the SDNY or Virginia and Manafort would be legally untouchable from a trump pardon.

-

Although Manafort rolled the dice for a pardon from trump on the surface. I tend to believe he's not being cooperative on purpose to preserve his life from the Russian mob. But that's just me.

wave Musicslave, thanks for more info. Makes me feel a little better.

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Reply #565 posted 02/14/19 6:58am

Musicslave

poppys said:

Musicslave said:

-

State charges would nullify any pardons for Federal charges. I don't think he'd be off the hook that easy. Remember, Mueller doesn't have to show the cards he's holding. He could recommend State charges to the SDNY or Virginia and Manafort would be legally untouchable from a trump pardon.

-

Although Manafort rolled the dice for a pardon from trump on the surface. I tend to believe he's not being cooperative on purpose to preserve his life from the Russian mob. But that's just me.

wave Musicslave, thanks for more info. Makes me feel a little better.

-

Glad you feel a little better but don't get your hopes up yet. Let's try our best to wait this out and see how it ends. Patience is mother*&#$%^ ain't it? lol

-

I do feel that once Barr is sworn in as the new Attorney General, Mueller could soon turn in his report. If I'm not mistaken, he will probably get the confirmation votes today to become our next AG.

-

-

[Edited 2/14/19 6:58am]

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Reply #566 posted 02/14/19 7:56am

DiminutiveRock
er

avatar

Musicslave said:

poppys said:

wave Musicslave, thanks for more info. Makes me feel a little better.

-

Glad you feel a little better but don't get your hopes up yet. Let's try our best to wait this out and see how it ends. Patience is mother*&#$%^ ain't it? lol

-

I do feel that once Barr is sworn in as the new Attorney General, Mueller could soon turn in his report. If I'm not mistaken, he will probably get the confirmation votes today to become our next AG.

-

-

[Edited 2/14/19 6:58am]




"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #567 posted 02/14/19 8:34am

Musicslave

DiminutiveRocker said:

Musicslave said:

-

Glad you feel a little better but don't get your hopes up yet. Let's try our best to wait this out and see how it ends. Patience is mother*&#$%^ ain't it? lol

-

I do feel that once Barr is sworn in as the new Attorney General, Mueller could soon turn in his report. If I'm not mistaken, he will probably get the confirmation votes today to become our next AG.

-

-

[Edited 2/14/19 6:58am]




-

Yeah, I've been catching the early promotions of McCabe's interview on 60 Minutes this Sunday. McCabe and Rosenstein seem to have different recollections on whether or not they seriously considered the "Code Red" (excuse me), the 25th Amendment.

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Reply #568 posted 02/14/19 12:39pm

Astasheiks

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CNN is saying Trump is going to Declare National Emergency regarding the Southern border.

eek mad neutral confused sad

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Reply #569 posted 02/14/19 12:51pm

Musicslave

Astasheiks said:

CNN is saying Trump is going to Declare National Emergency regarding the Southern border.

eek mad neutral confused sad

-

Yup. I knew he couldn't take his L like a man. McConnell said he's preparing to sign the govt funding bill and declare a national emergency. We'll see how the so-called checks and balance works out of the Senate.

-

They've been making threats this whole time that the prez better not do it. Now here again, they'll prove they're spineless unless you're a black, democratic president with a muslim name and happen to be from Hawaii.

-

-

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell says President Donald Trump has indicated he's prepared to sign the government funding bill and issue a national emergency on the border.

-

McConnell said Thursday the Senate will soon vote on the bill that's needed to avoid a partial federal shutdown Friday.

-

The comprise measure keeps departments running through the fiscal year but without the $5.7 billion Trump wanted for the border wall with Mexico.

-

The House is also expected to vote on the bill later Thursday.

-

Trump's assent would end a raucous legislative saga that commenced before Christmas and saw Trump force a record 35-day partial federal shutdown.

[Edited 2/14/19 12:52pm]

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