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Forums > Politics & Religion > This man gets it. Identity politics is stage 4 cancer
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Reply #60 posted 10/04/18 10:15am

djThunderfunk

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jjhunsecker said:

djThunderfunk said:


It's impossible to prove if someone "in charge" has racist or sexist thoughts, and could be difficult to prove they have racist or sexist attitudes that influence their actions. However, if those in charge of enforcing laws do not apply the law equally based on gender or race, it is not difficult to prove as their own records of enforcement (or lack thereof) would illustrate this. Now there is an action that can be legally dealt with.

I don't have all the answers either, nor do I expect them from you. I'm just trying to clarify the problems, which it seems to me we do not disagree on, and discuss possible solutions.

If we agree that we all have the same rights, regardless of gender or race (or sexuality, religion, etc), and we have mechanisms in place to guarantee those rights and punish those that restrict them, then, all that is left is attitude. Should we legislate attitude?


We can't "Legislate" attitudes. We can try to change them, by talking openly about these issues, and not being afraid to discuss our own individual realities. And without fear of being labeled as "divisive", or the dreaded "Identity Politics".


And I think you have more faith in "laws", and even more importantly, how they are administered, than I do.


If laws aren't the answer, what is?

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #61 posted 10/04/18 10:28am

jjhunsecker

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djThunderfunk said:

jjhunsecker said:

We can't "Legislate" attitudes. We can try to change them, by talking openly about these issues, and not being afraid to discuss our own individual realities. And without fear of being labeled as "divisive", or the dreaded "Identity Politics".


And I think you have more faith in "laws", and even more importantly, how they are administered, than I do.


If laws aren't the answer, what is?

My only hope is that exposure and dialog can open SOME minds, and progress can be made on those fronts. And eliminating absurd arguments like "Oppression Olympics" and such stupidity would go a long way.



The "laws" are now being administered, and prosecuted, and weighed, by people like Jeff Sessions. That's why I have little faith in "law" alone as a solution

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Reply #62 posted 10/04/18 10:29am

jjhunsecker

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2elijah said:

jjhunsecker said:

I'm talking about attitudes that have real world consequences. It's not a matter of somebody just thinking something about some group, it's how those thoughts manifest themselves, resulting in how others are treated

Great answer. The discrimination can manifest when someone in a power position, for example, uses their racist attitude to deny one of opportunities, where they meet all the qualifications and/or mistreat them, because they hold racial prejudices against certain individuals from a specific racial group. [Edited 10/4/18 9:55am]

Exactly. And in some instances, using the existing laws can backfire, and have unintended consequences as well

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Reply #63 posted 10/04/18 12:27pm

djThunderfunk

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jjhunsecker said:

djThunderfunk said:


If laws aren't the answer, what is?

My only hope is that exposure and dialog can open SOME minds, and progress can be made on those fronts. And eliminating absurd arguments like "Oppression Olympics" and such stupidity would go a long way.



The "laws" are now being administered, and prosecuted, and weighed, by people like Jeff Sessions. That's why I have little faith in "law" alone as a solution


Okay, but if the laws ARE fair, if legally we all have the same rights, then what is meant by "No one will truly be free until black women are liberated"? Legally speaking, black women are liberated. What is the goal then? We've mentioned attitudes, should they be legislated? If not, what are we talking about here?

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #64 posted 10/04/18 12:36pm

jjhunsecker

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djThunderfunk said:

jjhunsecker said:

My only hope is that exposure and dialog can open SOME minds, and progress can be made on those fronts. And eliminating absurd arguments like "Oppression Olympics" and such stupidity would go a long way.



The "laws" are now being administered, and prosecuted, and weighed, by people like Jeff Sessions. That's why I have little faith in "law" alone as a solution


Okay, but if the laws ARE fair, if legally we all have the same rights, then what is meant by "No one will truly be free until black women are liberated"? Legally speaking, black women are liberated. What is the goal then? We've mentioned attitudes, should they be legislated? If not, what are we talking about here?

You may want to ask the person who posted that. My interpretation of that comment is that we are not a just society , and can't claim to be, until racism and sexism are no longer a hinderance in the lives of people in it . And that by that metric, a Black Woman probably has it hardest since she faces the scourge of both .

Perhaps it's what JFK was getting at here :

[Edited 10/4/18 12:37pm]

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Reply #65 posted 10/04/18 12:45pm

djThunderfunk

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jjhunsecker said:

djThunderfunk said:


Okay, but if the laws ARE fair, if legally we all have the same rights, then what is meant by "No one will truly be free until black women are liberated"? Legally speaking, black women are liberated. What is the goal then? We've mentioned attitudes, should they be legislated? If not, what are we talking about here?

You may want to ask the person who posted that. My interpretation of that comment is that we are not a just society , and can't claim to be, until racism and sexism are no longer a hinderance in the lives of people in it . And that by that metric, a Black Woman probably has it hardest since she faces the scourge of both .


I did. You decided to answer.

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #66 posted 10/04/18 12:49pm

13cjk13

djThunderfunk said:

hausofmoi7 said:

djThunderfunk said: No one is more oppressed than black women. So in order to free and liberate black women we would be require to bring down both patriarchy and racism simultaneously. Patriarchy and racism is what our society is built on. Liberating black women would consequently free everyone else because we would be required to break every oppressive structure in society to do so. That is why identity politics is the most revolutionary act. . [Edited 10/4/18 6:12am]


In what way are black women "more oppressed" than anyone else? Are there rights that everyone except black women have?

PAY ATTENTION.

"Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost".
-Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #67 posted 10/04/18 1:04pm

jjhunsecker

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djThunderfunk said:

jjhunsecker said:

You may want to ask the person who posted that. My interpretation of that comment is that we are not a just society , and can't claim to be, until racism and sexism are no longer a hinderance in the lives of people in it . And that by that metric, a Black Woman probably has it hardest since she faces the scourge of both .


I did. You decided to answer.

It's responding to my post

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Reply #68 posted 10/04/18 1:33pm

djThunderfunk

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13cjk13 said:

djThunderfunk said:


In what way are black women "more oppressed" than anyone else? Are there rights that everyone except black women have?

PAY ATTENTION.


I am. Evidently the answer is "attitude", as we all, regardles of race or gender, have the same rights under the law.

But, I am paying attention, if you have anything relevant to add.


We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #69 posted 10/04/18 1:38pm

djThunderfunk

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jjhunsecker said:

djThunderfunk said:


I did. You decided to answer.

It's responding to my post


What? The statement was made. I asked the question. You responded to me. We had a friendly dialog. I'm still asking.

If you don't have the answer, that's fine, but, you did respond to my question, so I'm not sure what you mean by "it's responding to my post".

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #70 posted 10/04/18 1:49pm

PurpleSkipper5
8

As the man said in the video, y’all are just searching for examples of oppression where they don’t exist lol
”The people that will end up defining ‘Hate Speech Laws’ are the very people you don’t want to define the Hate Speech Laws” — Jordan B Peterson
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Reply #71 posted 10/04/18 1:52pm

jjhunsecker

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djThunderfunk said:



jjhunsecker said:




djThunderfunk said:




I did. You decided to answer.



It's responding to my post




What? The statement was made. I asked the question. You responded to me. We had a friendly dialog. I'm still asking.

If you don't have the answer, that's fine, but, you did respond to my question, so I'm not sure what you mean by "it's responding to my post".



You quoted Hausmoi's statement, but it was in response to my post. So I gave my interpretation of the statement. That's all- nothing else to read into it. I come in peace...
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Reply #72 posted 10/04/18 2:07pm

djThunderfunk

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jjhunsecker said:

djThunderfunk said:


What? The statement was made. I asked the question. You responded to me. We had a friendly dialog. I'm still asking.

If you don't have the answer, that's fine, but, you did respond to my question, so I'm not sure what you mean by "it's responding to my post".

You quoted Hausmoi's statement, but it was in response to my post. So I gave my interpretation of the statement. That's all- nothing else to read into it. I come in peace...


I come in peace too, but, no... hausofmoi's statement was reply #1, I quoted it and asked the question in reply #2, you joined with reply #5 by quoting me and offering an answer. As we had a friendly, peaceful discussion I'm cool with that, just sayin'... wink

We were HERE, where were you?

4 those that knew the number and didn't call... fk all y'all!
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Reply #73 posted 10/04/18 2:10pm

PurpleSkipper5
8

After Trump gets re-elected in 2020, I’ll be celebrating with this song
”The people that will end up defining ‘Hate Speech Laws’ are the very people you don’t want to define the Hate Speech Laws” — Jordan B Peterson
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Reply #74 posted 10/04/18 5:58pm

luv4u

Moderator

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moderator




PurpleSkipper58 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

^^ They kill themselves because of people like you! Because of bullying, because of dead naming, because of the fear of getting beat up or even killed. Do you know how many transwomen are beat up on a daily basis? They are not mentally ill, they are afraid to live freely because of ignorant bigots like you. If you have no clue about a subject, you should shut the fuck up about it.

I haven’t bullied ANY of them. But if they asked my opinion I’d give it to them. And no, I WON’T “shut the fuck up” about this. Cry some more over people’s opinions, snowflake.



From the org rules:

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    This means no racist/homophobic comments, period. Discussions of racism itself in the proper forum are OK. Making hateful comments, directed at a person or group, may get your account immediately suspended. We are extremely serious about this. prince.org is not a place for racial bigotry or hateful speech.

And on that note.................... lock

banned

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