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Thread started 07/22/18 10:28am

2freaky4church
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No science behind the idea that there is brainwashing.

https://www.alternet.org/...washing-bs

People have a need to believe. It's our weakness and strength.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #1 posted 07/22/18 10:40am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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2freaky4church1 said:

https://www.alternet.org/...washing-bs



People have a need to believe. It's our weakness and strength.



I haven’t clicked the link but your headline and post seem to completely contradict each other👀 lol

I hope that was intentional.
Crooked Donnie. Lock him up!
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Reply #2 posted 07/22/18 5:55pm

LadyLayla

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2freaky4church1 said:

https://www.alternet.org/...washing-bs

People have a need to believe. It's our weakness and strength.

I'll agree against "brainwashing" because it is conversion, conditioning and coercion. This is textbook predatory behavior.

And 2freaky, when you say a need to believe are you meaning that humans feel the need to believe in something greater than themselves? Hence religion?

I will respectfully have to disagree on the use of "new religious movement" instead of "cult".

Style is the second cousin to class
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Reply #3 posted 07/24/18 7:21am

2freaky4church
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No contradiction at all. We want to believe, but brainwashing is another animal. As the article said most cult members leave early. Including Islamic radicals. That's why they have a hard time finding suicide bombers.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #4 posted 07/24/18 7:25am

RodeoSchro

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Second Funkiest White Man in America

P&R's paladin
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Reply #5 posted 07/24/18 8:34am

Ugot2shakesumt
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2freaky4church1 said:

No contradiction at all. We want to believe, but brainwashing is another animal. As the article said most cult members leave early. Including Islamic radicals. That's why they have a hard time finding suicide bombers.



That’s why brainwashing works, you then go for confirmation bias instead of challenging your beliefs. People want to believe what suits them for whatever reason. Dont just knee-jerk and post items you like, go a step further first and see what other research says. Don’t be a Tweety

Most people brainwash themselves
[Edited 7/24/18 8:35am]
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Reply #6 posted 07/24/18 3:38pm

2freaky4church
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Tweety just picks bad info, I pick the best info. If brainwashing worked more Democrats would start to like Trump.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #7 posted 07/24/18 3:43pm

2freaky4church
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"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #8 posted 07/24/18 3:45pm

2freaky4church
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http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/2014/12/23/brainwashing_is_mind_control_real.html

boom. I'm da man.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #9 posted 07/24/18 4:37pm

Ugot2shakesumt
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2freaky4church1 said:

Tweety just picks bad info, I pick the best info. If brainwashing worked more Democrats would start to like Trump.



It works for Trump supporters
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Reply #10 posted 07/24/18 4:40pm

Ugot2shakesumt
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2freaky4church1 said:

http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/2014/12/23/brainwashing_is_mind_control_real.html



boom. I'm da man.



This is called confirmation bias. You are digging for facts that fit your assertion. I have no strong opinion on the matter it I know advertising works. And I know that people are easily manipulated.
Crooked Donnie. Lock him up!
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Reply #11 posted 07/25/18 11:58am

2freaky4church
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You are worse than Trump. Everything is fake news.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #12 posted 07/25/18 12:25pm

RodeoSchro

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Call it what you like, I'm gonna call it how it be - 30% of Americans have been brainwashed by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, Mark Levin, etc etc etc into believing that Democrats hate America and want to destroy it.

You and I and all humans with functioning brain cells know that is absolutely false and yet there are millions of Americans who believe it as gospel.

If that's not brainwashing, then I'm a space shuttle pilot.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #13 posted 07/26/18 8:32am

2freaky4church
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Call it what you like? Are we going down that road? There has to be trueisms. We would be just insects beating against a stone wall.

These two videos are instructive:

The Chomsky bit almost got me hard.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #14 posted 07/26/18 8:37am

2freaky4church
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Reason they listen to Limbaugh, what else can they listen to? Not like they know the options. Sure they can pick up the Nation Magazine or go to the net and see Counterpunch, but they don't even know they can and would they even know why they should? I'm sure they are conditioned to to think everything left of Hitler is Communist propaganda, which the business press has foundationalized since the early 70s when our side was gaining steam.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #15 posted 07/26/18 9:13am

Ugot2shakesumt
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2freaky4church1 said:

Reason they listen to Limbaugh, what else can they listen to? Not like they know the options. Sure they can pick up the Nation Magazine or go to the net and see Counterpunch, but they don't even know they can and would they even know why they should? I'm sure they are conditioned to to think everything left of Hitler is Communist propaganda, which the business press has foundationalized since the early 70s when our side was gaining steam.




They listen to Rush for confirmation bias. Just like you with Noam.
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Reply #16 posted 07/29/18 10:42am

2freaky4church
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Confirmation Bias is a term used by people who don't want to deal with the facts discussed. I blame American ignorance.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #17 posted 07/29/18 11:23am

Ugot2shakesumt
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2freaky4church1 said:

Confirmation Bias is a term used by people who don't want to deal with the facts discussed. I blame American ignorance.




Lol. Do some research. Besides just regurgitating Noam.
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Reply #18 posted 07/30/18 7:59am

2freaky4church
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You are officially trolling me now. I mention Chomsky because he is the leading left dissident in world history, who gets suppressed by the major media. And, the easy one: he has mostly been proven right. I have slight disagreements.

The main point is do you think political ideas are hard or easy to aquire. You probably think they are complex, I think most of it is trivial.

As Ha-joon Chang said, 95 percent of economics is common sense.

There is nobody who has been more right than brother Noam. Yes, I am biased, biased by facts.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #19 posted 07/31/18 4:49pm

IanRG

Reading through the posts and links, I think it just confusion in terms. I would say the cultist, politicalist, brand supporters, loyalists, conspiracy theorists etc. allow themsleves to be "brainwashed". This is where brainwashing is not a strict psychological term but it is range of ways we allow ourselves to be coerced, encouraged and manipulated into believing things.

.

The studies I have read on religious cultist agree with what 2Freaky is quoting from. The cultists are doing this by their own choice. They are so often like minded people who are incensed about others rejecting them or that don't appear to have same level of intensity in things important to that potential cultist. They find a group (or are found by a group) that embraces that person and encourages their intensity. For that person to stay with the group, they have to modify their personal intense things so they are aligned with the group's intense things. To do this they often have to separate themselves from their old self, so family, friends etc. Where they can no longer do this, they must be separated from the cult.

.

Obviously there are different levels of this occuring - Sometimes it just the person being really interested in looking as good as those in that group so they can be a part of that group or wishing for the camaraderie of fellow car lovers where a person aligns what they like with the brand/model of that group. The word "camaraderie", itself is an example of this. In US English the word is comradery. It is not that the UK English speakers or the US English speakers have been brainwashed, it is that language and pronunication are ways we identify with our group. We change the very way we talk depending to whom we are talking. Sometimes the necessity to conform and fit is necessary for survival (as a group or from violent and coercive techniques of the group).

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Reply #20 posted 07/31/18 6:04pm

Ugot2shakesumt
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IanRG said:

Reading through the posts and links, I think it just confusion in terms. I would say the cultist, politicalist, brand supporters, loyalists, conspiracy theorists etc. allow themsleves to be "brainwashed". This is where brainwashing is not a strict psychological term but it is range of ways we allow ourselves to be coerced, encouraged and manipulated into believing things.


.


The studies I have read on religious cultist agree with what 2Freaky is quoting from. The cultists are doing this by their own choice. They are so often like minded people who are incensed about others rejecting them or that don't appear to have same level of intensity in things important to that potential cultist. They find a group (or are found by a group) that embraces that person and encourages their intensity. For that person to stay with the group, they have to modify their personal intense things so they are aligned with the group's intense things. To do this they often have to separate themselves from their old self, so family, friends etc. Where they can no longer do this, they must be separated from the cult.


.


Obviously there are different levels of this occuring - Sometimes it just the person being really interested in looking as good as those in that group so they can be a part of that group or wishing for the camaraderie of fellow car lovers where a person aligns what they like with the brand/model of that group. The word "camaraderie", itself is an example of this. In US English the word is comradery. It is not that the UK English speakers or the US English speakers have been brainwashed, it is that language and pronunication are ways we identify with our group. We change the very way we talk depending to whom we are talking. Sometimes the necessity to conform and fit is necessary for survival (as a group or from violent and coercive techniques of the group).




I think it is a tad bit about semantics. As I said I have no strong feeling about this other than it is obvious people are easily led. It might not be clinical, but methods and efficacy of advertising, indoctrination, propaganda and assimilation such as with religion or politics may not clinical but obviously effective.
[Edited 7/31/18 18:37pm]
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Reply #21 posted 07/31/18 7:16pm

IanRG

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

IanRG said:

Reading through the posts and links, I think it just confusion in terms. I would say the cultist, politicalist, brand supporters, loyalists, conspiracy theorists etc. allow themsleves to be "brainwashed". This is where brainwashing is not a strict psychological term but it is range of ways we allow ourselves to be coerced, encouraged and manipulated into believing things.

.

The studies I have read on religious cultist agree with what 2Freaky is quoting from. The cultists are doing this by their own choice. They are so often like minded people who are incensed about others rejecting them or that don't appear to have same level of intensity in things important to that potential cultist. They find a group (or are found by a group) that embraces that person and encourages their intensity. For that person to stay with the group, they have to modify their personal intense things so they are aligned with the group's intense things. To do this they often have to separate themselves from their old self, so family, friends etc. Where they can no longer do this, they must be separated from the cult.

.

Obviously there are different levels of this occuring - Sometimes it just the person being really interested in looking as good as those in that group so they can be a part of that group or wishing for the camaraderie of fellow car lovers where a person aligns what they like with the brand/model of that group. The word "camaraderie", itself is an example of this. In US English the word is comradery. It is not that the UK English speakers or the US English speakers have been brainwashed, it is that language and pronunication are ways we identify with our group. We change the very way we talk depending to whom we are talking. Sometimes the necessity to conform and fit is necessary for survival (as a group or from violent and coercive techniques of the group).

I think it is a tad bit about semantics. As I said I have no strong feeling about this other than it is obvious people are easily led. It might not be clinical, but methods and efficacy of advertising, indoctrination, propaganda and assimilation such as with religion or politics may not clinical but obviously effective. [Edited 7/31/18 18:37pm]

.

Otherwise there simply would not be an advertising industry

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Reply #22 posted 07/31/18 7:28pm

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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IanRG said:



Ugot2shakesumthin said:


IanRG said:

Reading through the posts and links, I think it just confusion in terms. I would say the cultist, politicalist, brand supporters, loyalists, conspiracy theorists etc. allow themsleves to be "brainwashed". This is where brainwashing is not a strict psychological term but it is range of ways we allow ourselves to be coerced, encouraged and manipulated into believing things.


.


The studies I have read on religious cultist agree with what 2Freaky is quoting from. The cultists are doing this by their own choice. They are so often like minded people who are incensed about others rejecting them or that don't appear to have same level of intensity in things important to that potential cultist. They find a group (or are found by a group) that embraces that person and encourages their intensity. For that person to stay with the group, they have to modify their personal intense things so they are aligned with the group's intense things. To do this they often have to separate themselves from their old self, so family, friends etc. Where they can no longer do this, they must be separated from the cult.


.


Obviously there are different levels of this occuring - Sometimes it just the person being really interested in looking as good as those in that group so they can be a part of that group or wishing for the camaraderie of fellow car lovers where a person aligns what they like with the brand/model of that group. The word "camaraderie", itself is an example of this. In US English the word is comradery. It is not that the UK English speakers or the US English speakers have been brainwashed, it is that language and pronunication are ways we identify with our group. We change the very way we talk depending to whom we are talking. Sometimes the necessity to conform and fit is necessary for survival (as a group or from violent and coercive techniques of the group).



I think it is a tad bit about semantics. As I said I have no strong feeling about this other than it is obvious people are easily led. It might not be clinical, but methods and efficacy of advertising, indoctrination, propaganda and assimilation such as with religion or politics may not clinical but obviously effective. [Edited 7/31/18 18:37pm]

.


Otherwise there simply would not be an advertising industry


Or propaganda
Or Fox New$$$$
Or televangelist$$$
Crooked Donnie. Lock him up!
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Reply #23 posted 08/01/18 10:36am

bobzilla77

I certainly agree with the notion that we sometimes like to describe the people who disagree with us as having been "brainwashed", a little too flippantly.

There have been articles by liberals complaining their parents have been "brainwashed by FOX News" which is about as intelligent as saying that some school shooter was "brainwashed by listening to Marilyn Manson." Basically those people have been persuaded or convinced to a certain point of view by entirely conventional means, probably having something to do with bias confirmation.

There IS such a thing as mental torture, designed to break people down psychologically, but that's almost never what people are talking about when they say the word "brainwashing".

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Reply #24 posted 08/01/18 2:25pm

2freaky4church
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Look how Prince strayed from the JW teachings. He first didn't do dirty songs, then he started doing them again. Larry or no Larry. He wore that tight costume during Rave. He even started doing Dirty Mind again. Not Head, but he would have.

He was less preachy in lyrics.

Indoctrination is not brainwashing. Brainwashing signals that it is almost impossible to break free. You have guys like Christian Picollini, who was a hard core nazi skin head. The guy now heads an organization dedicated to ending hate. You also have that one black guy who befriends the KKK and they give him their uniforms. Racism is one of the hardest brands of intollerance to break free from.

The is confirmation bias, if you do not or refuse to look at other information that attacks your views. My story involves looking fairly at all views, right and left. Through trial and error I ratioanalized that radical left views just make more sense historically and reality wise based on sound facts. I'm always opened to be diverted.

I rely on Chomsky because no one human has studied such a vast flora and fauna of received facts. A fanatical expose to find the truth.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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