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Thread started 06/20/18 7:15am

TweetyV6

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Where was the outcry 4 years ago.

Oh wait, it was Obama, the lefties favorite Colgate smile POTUS.

Children seperated from t...ts in 2014 (VOX)



Pictures you didn't see then...


Something with bunch and hypocrites rolleyes


Apparently it's a law from 2008. Executed by the Bush, Obama and Trump administrations.


Update: fixed 1st link.

[Edited 6/20/18 8:01am]

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Reply #1 posted 06/20/18 7:49am

RodeoSchro

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Apparently, it's not a law. Apparently, it's a change in policy. Apparently, its a change in how aslyum-seekers are handled. Apparently, it's a change in how illegal immigrants are charged. Apparently, it was a deliberate change specifically meant to separate families. Apparently, the president of the United States of America said this was done tu use as a bargaining chip to get money from Congress to build his wall. Apparently, that's the same wall he promised Mexico would pay for.

Apparently, your Daily Caller story is complete BS: https://www.nbcnews.com/s...es-n884856

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Reply #2 posted 06/20/18 8:11am

TweetyV6

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RodeoSchro said:

Apparently, it's not a law.
Uhhhmm.... William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection and Reauthorization Act, or the TVPRA.

Apparently, it's a change in policy.
Depends how you look at it, if the policy used to be not to act according to the law and now the administation does, then yes, you can call it a policy change


Apparently, its a change in how aslyum-seekers are handled.
According to the law.

Apparently, it's a change in how illegal immigrants are charged.

According to the law.

Apparently, it was a deliberate change specifically meant to separate families.
According to the law.

Apparently, the president of the United States of America said this was done tu use as a bargaining chip to get money from Congress to build his wall.
Good move IMHO


Apparently, that's the same wall he promised Mexico would pay for.

Apparently, your Daily Caller story is complete BS: https://www.nbcnews.com/s...es-n884856

What a coincidence. A story to debunk a 4 year old story.
Nevertheless, the pictures are 4 years old and were used earlier this week to show how cruel Trumps change in policy is.

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Reply #3 posted 06/20/18 8:40am

OnlyNDaUsa

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again these are not legitimate aslyum-seekers. Asylum from where?

I am also not liking this policy and YES this also happened under Obama. Some area leaders wanted to use closed schools, but to do so, they would have needed to do some costly improvements. (pipes an asbestos removal) But the Fed said "no" and guess what? Some of those schools are back open as schools but because there was no change to use they do not have to make the improvements!


Anyway: I hope they are processed and sent back home--unless they have an actual case. I just do not accept that things are so bad in Mexico that they could qualfy.

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #4 posted 06/20/18 8:51am

RodeoSchro

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

again these are not legitimate aslyum-seekers. Asylum from where?

I am also not liking this policy and YES this also happened under Obama. Some area leaders wanted to use closed schools, but to do so, they would have needed to do some costly improvements. (pipes an asbestos removal) But the Fed said "no" and guess what? Some of those schools are back open as schools but because there was no change to use they do not have to make the improvements!


Anyway: I hope they are processed and sent back home--unless they have an actual case. I just do not accept that things are so bad in Mexico that they could qualfy.



They do NOT come from Mexico. If they did, they would be turned around and sent back to Mexico. But since they come from countries OTHER THAN Mexico, they cannot be returned to Mexico.

They are coming from El Salvador; Honduras; and Guatemala, to name a few.

They are DEFINITELY legitimate asylum-seekers.

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Reply #5 posted 06/20/18 8:54am

OnlyNDaUsa

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RodeoSchro said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

again these are not legitimate aslyum-seekers. Asylum from where?

I am also not liking this policy and YES this also happened under Obama. Some area leaders wanted to use closed schools, but to do so, they would have needed to do some costly improvements. (pipes an asbestos removal) But the Fed said "no" and guess what? Some of those schools are back open as schools but because there was no change to use they do not have to make the improvements!


Anyway: I hope they are processed and sent back home--unless they have an actual case. I just do not accept that things are so bad in Mexico that they could qualfy.



They do NOT come from Mexico. If they did, they would be turned around and sent back to Mexico. But since they come from countries OTHER THAN Mexico, they cannot be returned to Mexico.

They are coming from El Salvador; Honduras; and Guatemala, to name a few.

They are DEFINITELY legitimate asylum-seekers.

they were legitimate asylum-seekers in Mexico. they should be sent back to Mexico to seek asylum there.



and you understand they did not show up and say "we are here to seek asylum" NO they ALL snuck on or were brought in by their parents.

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #6 posted 06/20/18 9:03am

maplenpg

TweetyV6 said:

Oh wait, it was Obama, the lefties favorite Colgate smile POTUS.

Children seperated from t...ts in 2014 (VOX)



Pictures you didn't see then...


Something with bunch and hypocrites rolleyes


Apparently it's a law from 2008. Executed by the Bush, Obama and Trump administrations.


Update: fixed 1st link.

[Edited 6/20/18 8:01am]

I'm not sure if you read the last thread fully or just cherry-picked certain posts but it was said, more than once, that this was not a partisan issue, that Obama had problems too. But the figures of children in detention centres have ramped up in the past few months since the policy change and the zero-tolerance approach. That it happened before Trump doesn't make what is happening okay. What is happening is not okay. As I said in the other thread I went to a UK conference in 2012 where this issue was being talked about (in the UK) so it has been happening a long time and is an issue that affects many countries. Doesn't make it right. For me, the troubling part, if we take aside the trauma caused to all parties because of a strict upholding of the law that ignores human rights, is that swathes of people, from all parties, are crying out for some kind of change - and yet Trump, who has the power to create change, seems to revel in all the chaos and disorder that he is causing, regardless of the humanitarian cost.

It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.
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Reply #7 posted 06/20/18 9:07am

RodeoSchro

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

RodeoSchro said:



They do NOT come from Mexico. If they did, they would be turned around and sent back to Mexico. But since they come from countries OTHER THAN Mexico, they cannot be returned to Mexico.

They are coming from El Salvador; Honduras; and Guatemala, to name a few.

They are DEFINITELY legitimate asylum-seekers.

they were legitimate asylum-seekers in Mexico. they should be sent back to Mexico to seek asylum there.



and you understand they did not show up and say "we are here to seek asylum" NO they ALL snuck on or were brought in by their parents.



Incorrect on both counts. The reason they are put in kiddie jails is because they cannot be sent back to the country from whose borders they crossed (Mexico). This is because THEY AREN'T MEXICANS. And they did not seek asylum in Mexico. You are not automatically required to seek asylum in the first country whose borders you cross. If that were so, no one from a Central or South American country could ever have received asylum here. Yet, we know thousands and thouands already have.

Let's say a Mexican citizen snuck into America, and then decided to sneak into Canada. Or decided to present himself to Canadian authorities and ask for asylum. The Canadian authorities catch him/refuse his asylum request. Do you think the good ol' US of A is going to say, "Well, he snuck/came in from our border so send that Mexican citizen back to us. He's America's problem"?

Of course not.

As to point 2, these people are mostly showing up at border crossings and presenting themselves to border authorities for asylum. Then they get arrested and separated from their kids. There are numerous quotes from Trump officials and other GOP leaders about how it's going to take some time for the news of our no-tolerance policy to filter back to the countries from where these people are fleeing. Trump and his minions know that.

.

[Edited 6/20/18 9:11am]

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Reply #8 posted 06/20/18 9:08am

maplenpg

OnlyNDaUsa said:

RodeoSchro said:



They do NOT come from Mexico. If they did, they would be turned around and sent back to Mexico. But since they come from countries OTHER THAN Mexico, they cannot be returned to Mexico.

They are coming from El Salvador; Honduras; and Guatemala, to name a few.

They are DEFINITELY legitimate asylum-seekers.

they were legitimate asylum-seekers in Mexico. they should be sent back to Mexico to seek asylum there.



and you understand they did not show up and say "we are here to seek asylum" NO they ALL snuck on or were brought in by their parents.

Thank goodness you were fortunate enough to be born in America eh! God loves America. Fucking troublemakers trying to seek asylum in your great country (especially through the back door) - how dare they! Send em home, rip them apart from their families, let them die - anything apart from letting them in.

It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.
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Reply #9 posted 06/20/18 9:12am

Musicslave

I guess this is the new thread about the asylum seekers.... I just want to say that I believe our president is relishing this moment (as any other moment) because of the attention he's getting.Everyone is begging or commanding him to "do something." This is such a stroke to his ego. Eventually, he is going to try to appear as a strong, decisive, tough leader. He's going to try to spin it as the "hero" by executive order or signing something Congress throws together that doesn't seperate kids from their families.

-

I hate to even comment on anything he does because I hate the thought of feeding his oversized ego any more.

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Reply #10 posted 06/20/18 9:15am

RodeoSchro

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Musicslave said:

I guess this is the new thread about the asylum seekers.... I just want to say that I believe our president is relishing this moment (as any other moment) because of the attention he's getting.Everyone is begging or commanding him to "do something." This is such a stroke to his ego. Eventually, he is going to try to appear as a strong, decisive, tough leader. He's going to try to spin it as the "hero" by executive order or signing something Congress throws together that doesn't seperate kids from their families.

-

I hate to even comment on anything he does because I hate the thought of feeding his oversized ego any more.




I think you're exactly right. He's going to say that he and only he was the person smart enough to figure out how to solve this without that dang do-nothing, Democratically-controlled (apparently!) Congress.

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Reply #11 posted 06/20/18 9:20am

jjhunsecker

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What is the best word to describe these children being held ? How about HOSTAGES ? Because that's basically what they are...."I will stop inflicting pain and holding people against their will IF you give ME what I want "

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Reply #12 posted 06/20/18 9:21am

RodeoSchro

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jjhunsecker said:

What is the best word to describe these children being held ? How about HOSTAGES ? Because that's basically what they are...."I will stop inflicting pain and holding people against their will IF you give ME what I want "



And what he wants is $25 billion to build a wall that he promised us Mexico would pay for.

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Reply #13 posted 06/20/18 10:00am

Musicslave

RodeoSchro said:

jjhunsecker said:

What is the best word to describe these children being held ? How about HOSTAGES ? Because that's basically what they are...."I will stop inflicting pain and holding people against their will IF you give ME what I want "



And what he wants is $25 billion to build a wall that he promised us Mexico would pay for.

-

It's amazing how his worshippers have cowtowed to WHATEVER excuse he gives them for Mexico not paying for it. I think Sen. Corker was right last week, they are cultish.

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Reply #14 posted 06/20/18 10:03am

Musicslave

RodeoSchro said:

Musicslave said:

I guess this is the new thread about the asylum seekers.... I just want to say that I believe our president is relishing this moment (as any other moment) because of the attention he's getting.Everyone is begging or commanding him to "do something." This is such a stroke to his ego. Eventually, he is going to try to appear as a strong, decisive, tough leader. He's going to try to spin it as the "hero" by executive order or signing something Congress throws together that doesn't seperate kids from their families.

-

I hate to even comment on anything he does because I hate the thought of feeding his oversized ego any more.




I think you're exactly right. He's going to say that he and only he was the person smart enough to figure out how to solve this without that dang do-nothing, Democratically-controlled (apparently!) Congress.

-

You quoted what I was thinking about when I posted that. I remember him campaigning on "I and I alone can fix it." This guy doesn't have a humble bone in his body. Geesh! Can't wait for this trump show to get cancelled.

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Reply #15 posted 06/20/18 11:49am

Musicslave

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/06/20/trump-false-claims-family-separations-656011

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Trump falsely claimed for days that he couldn’t end family separations

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The president is now reversing himself after facing fierce backlash for forcibly removing thousands of children from their parents.

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By MATTHEW NUSSBAUM

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06/20/2018 01:10 PM EDT

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President Donald Trump on Wednesday said he would sign an executive order to pull back on his administration’s highly controversial policy of separating undocumented immigrant children from their parents.

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It was a jarring reversal for the president who has been falsely stating for days that only Congress could fix the problem.

-

[Edited 6/20/18 12:21pm]

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Reply #16 posted 06/20/18 12:17pm

Musicslave

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/immigration-border-children-separation/index.html

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JUST IN: President Trump signs executive order on keeping families together

President Trump has signed an executive order “about keeping families together while ensuring we have a powerful border."

-

Standby for the President's remarks...

-

What just happened: President Donald Trump officially reversed his debunked argument that he had no authority to stop separations of undocumented immigrant families at the border.

-

Trump's climbdown came after he faced intense pressure from across the political spectrum and from religious, political and world leaders to halt the separations, which produced days of heart-rending news coverage of crying children some of whom were kept in cage-like detention centers.

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Reply #17 posted 06/20/18 1:41pm

NorthC

TweetyV6 said:

Oh wait, it was Obama, the lefties favorite Colgate smile POTUS.

Children seperated from t...ts in 2014 (VOX)




Pictures you didn't see then...


Something with bunch and hypocrites rolleyes


Apparently it's a law from 2008. Executed by the Bush, Obama and Trump administrations.


Update: fixed 1st link.

[Edited 6/20/18 8:01am]


Let me tell you something, Sweety: you cannot use one person's crimes to excuse another person's crimes. This is happening NOW and Trump is president NOW, which means HE is responsible and HE has the power to stop it. So I hope he's as good as his word.
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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Reply #18 posted 06/20/18 2:18pm

JoeyC

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Musicslave said:

I guess this is the new thread about the asylum seekers.... I just want to say that I believe our president is relishing this moment (as any other moment) because of the attention he's getting.Everyone is begging or commanding him to "do something." This is such a stroke to his ego. Eventually, he is going to try to appear as a strong, decisive, tough leader. He's going to try to spin it as the "hero" by executive order or signing something Congress throws together that doesn't seperate kids from their families.

-

I hate to even comment on anything he does because I hate the thought of feeding his oversized ego any more.


Yep. And i wonder how many people(politicians, his supporters, and the media) will be really willing to call him on his BS.

That dude is truly a sick individual. It's mind boggling that any caring human being(especially someone who calls themselves a christian) can support that man.

What's the limit to what people will put up with, with Trump? Whatever pluses that some people may believe that a Trump presidency brings, are vastly outnumbered by the damage that he's doing...


Rest in Peace Bettie Boo. See u soon.
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Reply #19 posted 06/20/18 2:33pm

RodeoSchro

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Musicslave said:

https://www.cnn.com/politics/live-news/immigration-border-children-separation/index.html

-

JUST IN: President Trump signs executive order on keeping families together

President Trump has signed an executive order “about keeping families together while ensuring we have a powerful border."

-

Standby for the President's remarks...

-

What just happened: President Donald Trump officially reversed his debunked argument that he had no authority to stop separations of undocumented immigrant families at the border.

-

Trump's climbdown came after he faced intense pressure from across the political spectrum and from religious, political and world leaders to halt the separations, which produced days of heart-rending news coverage of crying children some of whom were kept in cage-like detention centers.



Here's the first paragraph. The last sentence screams "insecurity", doesn't it?


Section 1. Policy. It is the policy of this Administration to rigorously enforce our immigration laws. Under our laws, the only legal way for an alien to enter this country is at a designated port of entry at an appropriate time. When an alien enters or attempts to enter the country anywhere else, that alien has committed at least the crime of improper entry and is subject to a fine or imprisonment under section 1325(a) of title 8, United States Code. This Administration will initiate proceedings to enforce this and other criminal provisions of the INA until and unless Congress directs otherwise. It is also the policy of this Administration to maintain family unity, including by detaining alien families together where appropriate and consistent with law and available resources. It is unfortunate that Congress's failure to act and court orders have put the Administration in the position of separating alien families to effectively enforce the law.

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Reply #20 posted 06/20/18 2:52pm

lazycrockett

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Its such a BS executive order cause it only covers the next 20 days and doesn't mention at all a way to reunite already separated families. Just more smoke and mirrors.

The Most Important Thing In Life Is Sincerity....Once You Can Fake That, You Can Fake Anything.
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Reply #21 posted 06/20/18 4:32pm

13cjk13

TweetyV6 said:

RodeoSchro said:

Apparently, it's not a law.
Uhhhmm.... William Wilberforce Trafficking Victims Protection and Reauthorization Act, or the TVPRA.

Apparently, it's a change in policy.
Depends how you look at it, if the policy used to be not to act according to the law and now the administation does, then yes, you can call it a policy change


Apparently, its a change in how aslyum-seekers are handled.
According to the law.

Apparently, it's a change in how illegal immigrants are charged.

According to the law.

Apparently, it was a deliberate change specifically meant to separate families.
According to the law.

Apparently, the president of the United States of America said this was done tu use as a bargaining chip to get money from Congress to build his wall.
Good move IMHO


Apparently, that's the same wall he promised Mexico would pay for.

Apparently, your Daily Caller story is complete BS: https://www.nbcnews.com/s...es-n884856

What a coincidence. A story to debunk a 4 year old story.
Nevertheless, the pictures are 4 years old and were used earlier this week to show how cruel Trumps change in policy is.

Trump is garbage. Dont forget it. Pay attention.

"Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost".
-Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #22 posted 06/20/18 5:42pm

Dauphin

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Sounds like, if they require that much asylum, we need to consider regime change. Interesting.
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Reply #23 posted 06/20/18 5:46pm

Dauphin

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Also, this policy change is, in part, due to a lawsuit during the Obama administration. Trump's policy has the potential to conflict with the settlement, so he'll have to give new executive orders, which will lead to more lawsuits.

A big political play to capitalize on the misfortunes of the downtrodden. God damnit Democrats. Not only that, but you're playing into Trump's hand to make those huge changes faster, just so you have something to run on at midterms. You fuckers. No shame.
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Reply #24 posted 06/20/18 6:34pm

PennyPurple

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A cluster of rumors about the controversial separation of families at the border held that the policy came before the Trump administration, either stemming from a 1997 “law” or purported policies of previous administrations. Those claims were false. No federal law required or suggested the family separation policy announced by Attorney General Sessions in several sets of remarks during April and May 2018.

Snopes

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Reply #25 posted 06/20/18 6:37pm

PennyPurple

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So the executive order that Trump signed today does not affect the current 2300 kids that are living cages? 238 of those children have been taken to New York. WTH did they take them to NY? They have children in cages as young as 9 months. WTF is going on? And all the while the President is patting himself on the back. We have a republican President and a republican controlled house & senate, and somehow it's the Dems fault?

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Reply #26 posted 06/20/18 7:09pm

Dauphin

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PennyPurple said:

So the executive order that Trump signed today does not affect the current 2300 kids that are living cages? 238 of those children have been taken to New York. WTH did they take them to NY? They have children in cages as young as 9 months. WTF is going on? And all the while the President is patting himself on the back. We have a republican President and a republican controlled house & senate, and somehow it's the Dems fault?



Yes. The policy change was due to a lawsuit where children were being detained with their parents for over 20 days. That was the settlement.

Trump's new policy to keep families together means he will have to take executive action to make sure funding is routed so that the department does not violate that settlement. This, of course, will me new, sweeping regulations with plenty of cash to fund.

He's already jamming up the asylum process, so you can bet this means we're going closer to having the wall built. Because, having the wall means less traffic overall, and potentially more asylum centers along it with rules to turn pople away at the border instead of within the borders.

It's playing right into their hands, and like I said the DNC will ride on the misfortunes of others to gain back what they lost and to further their own goals.
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Reply #27 posted 06/20/18 7:48pm

13cjk13

Dauphin said:

PennyPurple said:

So the executive order that Trump signed today does not affect the current 2300 kids that are living cages? 238 of those children have been taken to New York. WTH did they take them to NY? They have children in cages as young as 9 months. WTF is going on? And all the while the President is patting himself on the back. We have a republican President and a republican controlled house & senate, and somehow it's the Dems fault?

Yes. The policy change was due to a lawsuit where children were being detained with their parents for over 20 days. That was the settlement. Trump's new policy to keep families together means he will have to take executive action to make sure funding is routed so that the department does not violate that settlement. This, of course, will me new, sweeping regulations with plenty of cash to fund. He's already jamming up the asylum process, so you can bet this means we're going closer to having the wall built. Because, having the wall means less traffic overall, and potentially more asylum centers along it with rules to turn pople away at the border instead of within the borders. It's playing right into their hands, and like I said the DNC will ride on the misfortunes of others to gain back what they lost and to further their own goals.

Their goals being NOT to rip children from their parents and drug them and jail them. Oh, and gender equality. And protecting our natural resources. And getting clean water to Flynt. And not building a fucking ridiculous wall. And.... Cool. Good goals.

"Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost".
-Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #28 posted 06/21/18 3:47am

Ugot2shakesumt
hin

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About the wall. A small piece will be “built”/renovated, they will call it a “victory” and that’s all that’s going to happen. A proper “wall” will NEVER be built. That is such foolishness.

Funny to see the right wingers come out in force when it comes to support a racist president.
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Reply #29 posted 06/21/18 4:30am

PennyPurple

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Ugot2shakesumthin said:

About the wall. A small piece will be “built”/renovated, they will call it a “victory” and that’s all that’s going to happen. A proper “wall” will NEVER be built. That is such foolishness. Funny to see the right wingers come out in force when it comes to support a racist president.

And it will cost us at least 50 million for that small piece.

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