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Reply #30 posted 01/11/18 12:25pm

paisleypark4

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http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/16/us/keystone-pipeline-leak/index.html



I am meaning things like this.
Or this: (Gods Of Egypt)

Image result for gods of egypt

However Pharrell was apologetic about wearing his headdress at the very least. That was messed up of him even if he is part Native American.

Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
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Reply #31 posted 01/11/18 2:50pm

2elijah

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

I see how bad this is. I agree they messed it up. Being in the UK maybe they did not get the issue? And it was and is also a bit bigoted to assume the worst and just deem it in its worst possible light.


I hope the kid was paid well and that the [b{Sean really did offer him a contract to model... [/b]


Sean did.
FEARLESS
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Reply #32 posted 01/11/18 4:14pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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2elijah said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I see how bad this is. I agree they messed it up. Being in the UK maybe they did not get the issue? And it was and is also a bit bigoted to assume the worst and just deem it in its worst possible light.


I hope the kid was paid well and that the [b{Sean really did offer him a contract to model... [/b]

Sean did.

cool good for them both

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #33 posted 01/13/18 4:28pm

poppys

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/13/world/africa/hm-south-africa-protest.html

Africa

H&M Closes Stores in South Africa Amid Protests Over ‘Monkey’ Shirt

By JACEY FORTINJAN. 13, 2018

The Swedish clothing company H&M temporarily closed several stores in South Africa on Saturday after protests erupted over an image in its online store that critics said was racist.

The image touched off an uproar on social media this week, and on Saturday demonstrators representing South Africa’s second-largest opposition party, Economic Freedom Fighters, gathered at H&M locations across the country.


[Edited 1/13/18 16:31pm]

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Reply #34 posted 01/14/18 8:08am

poppys

See the source image
bing photos

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Reply #35 posted 01/14/18 4:01pm

ShaggyDog

H & M seems aren't the European clothing store to have gotten into trouble with allegations of racism and offencive images and slogans on their clothing. Anyone remember when the Zara chain got in hot water for selling this Indian or Hindu themed bag with swastikas on it?

And the same company were accused of being insensitive or anti-semitic when they released some boys pyjamas that had a sheriff theme with stripes and a gold badge which some people thought looked like the clothes that some Jewish people were made to wear during the Holocaust.

And just recently a similar big chain store Primark (which is from Ireland) pulled these Walking Dead t-shirts after complaints that the catchphrase on them which referred to the Season 6 finale of the show could be construed as racist given the origins and historical words of the counting rhyme it references.

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Reply #36 posted 01/14/18 11:28pm

toejam

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What a load of garbage. Calling kids "little monkeys" is not racist. I call my four nephews "little monkeys" all the time.

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Toejam's band "Cheap Fakes": http://cheapfakes.com.au, http://www.facebook.com/cheapfakes
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Reply #37 posted 01/15/18 8:17am

paisleypark4

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toejam said:

What a load of garbage. Calling kids "little monkeys" is not racist. I call my four nephews "little monkeys" all the time.


It's not just any kids but black kids. Know your American history much?

Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus
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Reply #38 posted 01/15/18 9:36am

NorthC

The sweater isn't racist because if a kid of a different skin colour had worn it, there wouldn't be a problem. The photo may or may not be racist and that's something worth discussing. But now we have an outcry on the not-so-social media, riots in South Africa, H&M having to close their shops there so that the people who work there can't go to work... All of that because of a photo? That's why I said I'm getting a bit tired of people shouting "racism!" all the time: all this online hysteria does nothing to solve problems. It only makes things worse.
[Edited 1/15/18 9:45am]
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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Reply #39 posted 01/15/18 9:58am

DiminutiveRock
er

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NorthC said:

The sweater isn't racist because if a kid of a different skin colour had worn it, there wouldn't be a problem. The photo may or may not be racist and that's something worth discussing. But now we have an outcry on the not-so-social media, riots in South Africa, H&M having to close their shops there so that the people who work there can't go to work... All of that because of a photo? That's why I said I'm getting a bit tired of people shouting "racism!" all the time: all this online hysteria does nothing to solve problems. It only makes things worse. [Edited 1/15/18 9:45am]


It was an obviously ignorant and insensitive ad by H&M. Now they are paying for it. shrug

"'Were it left to me to decide whether we should have a government without newspapers, or newspapers without a government, I should not hesitate a moment to prefer the latter.'' - Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #40 posted 01/15/18 10:34am

poppys

NorthC said:

The sweater isn't racist because if a kid of a different skin colour had worn it, there wouldn't be a problem. The photo may or may not be racist and that's something worth discussing. But now we have an outcry on the not-so-social media, riots in South Africa, H&M having to close their shops there so that the people who work there can't go to work... All of that because of a photo? That's why I said I'm getting a bit tired of people shouting "racism!" all the time: all this online hysteria does nothing to solve problems. It only makes things worse. [Edited 1/15/18 9:45am]

Whether you are tired of it or not, this ad is racist on a global level. The "sweater isn't racist" argument makes no sense, it depends on context. What about what LeBron James said? Maybe you just want racism to go away, but it won't by NOT talking about stuff like this. If people want to protest and close stores in Africa or anywhere, that's their call.

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Reply #41 posted 01/15/18 10:48am

NorthC

If people want to riot and ruin a company's property (which isn't protesting, but vandalism) after the company had apologised and removed both the sweater and the advert, then that's their call? Now THAT's an argument that makes no sense.
And yes, I do want racism to go away and we need to talk about it (as I already acknowledged in my post), but all this online hysteria and rioting in the streets isn't going to help.
[Edited 1/15/18 10:53am]
[Edited 1/15/18 10:57am]
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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Reply #42 posted 01/15/18 11:09am

poppys

Racism is not going away in an orderly, incremental way any more that enslavement happens in an orderly, incremental way. This is bumpy, painful, life and death stuff. People need to feel their feelings.

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Reply #43 posted 01/15/18 11:12am

2freaky4church
1

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Racism is about ignorance. People don't want to admit they are ignorant. Only being a good example. Not racist but ignorance.

"My motherfucker's so cool sheep count him."
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Reply #44 posted 01/15/18 12:53pm

paisleypark4

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Exactly. if this did not happen they would not LEARN what to do and not to do.
No not everything is about racism (lord knows my people quick to jump to saying somebody being racist to them even when that is not the case smh), however this in particular was not on purpose, it was a mistake due to being uneducated on the subject...like someone said..they should have more minorities on their team then things like this would not and could not happen.

Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus
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Reply #45 posted 01/15/18 2:16pm

toejam

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paisleypark4 said:



toejam said:


What a load of garbage. Calling kids "little monkeys" is not racist. I call my four nephews "little monkeys" all the time.




It's not just any kids but black kids. Know your American history much?


.
Was this being sold to black American kids only? You don't think a black mother has ever called her child "little monkey" in an affectionate way? My family refer to my four nephews as the "little monkeys" all the time in an affectionate way, two of whom are white and two whom are mixed white-Middle Eastern. No one is forcing anyone to buy or wear this. If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. I think it's cute. Many kids are like little monkeys, climbing in trees, cute, getting up to mischief, etc.

.
[Edited 1/15/18 14:19pm]
Toejam @ Peach & Black Podcast: http://peachandblack.podbean.com
Toejam's band "Cheap Fakes": http://cheapfakes.com.au, http://www.facebook.com/cheapfakes
Toejam the solo artist: http://www.youtube.com/scottbignell
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Reply #46 posted 01/15/18 3:07pm

ShaggyDog

DiminutiveRocker said:

NorthC said:

The sweater isn't racist because if a kid of a different skin colour had worn it, there wouldn't be a problem. The photo may or may not be racist and that's something worth discussing. But now we have an outcry on the not-so-social media, riots in South Africa, H&M having to close their shops there so that the people who work there can't go to work... All of that because of a photo? That's why I said I'm getting a bit tired of people shouting "racism!" all the time: all this online hysteria does nothing to solve problems. It only makes things worse. [Edited 1/15/18 9:45am]


It was an obviously ignorant and insensitive ad by H&M. Now they are paying for it. shrug

But here's the thing, you've got a sweatshirt that says "Coolest monkey in the jungle". Now if it has said "Coolest panda in the forest" or "Coolest fish in the ocean" and was being modelled by a black child we wouldn't have any issue whatsoever, because culturally we don't have any potential racial connotations to comparing a child to a panda or a fish. But of course the word "monkey", and also in this context "jungle" can have racial connotations to some people. But let's play devil's advocate for a moment. If the same "coolest monkey in the jungle" slogan had been on a shirt modelled by a non-black child would people have flagged up these shirts for being *potentially* racist *if* theoretically worn by a black child, even though one wasn't shown in the advert?

And again, let's imagine that H&M were preparing for this photo shoot when someone said "wait a minute, you need to make sure that you don't feature a black child modelling this", could perhaps that also be considered racist? In that a white child could model this shirt but a black child shouldn't? Because surely that is also discriminating on the basis of the black child's skin colour, they are denied an oppurtunity purely because of their ethnic background. And also to take thart idea further, if you then say that a black child couldn't model a shirt with the word "monkey" on it, is that then validating the idea that there is a link beteween monkey's and black skin?

Perhaps, and maybe this is a stretch, one could consider that H&M were actually operating and equal oppurtunity policy, that they weren't going to let some people's racist attitudes stop them from letting a black child model a sweatshirt with a fun slogan and that in effect they were reclaiming the word "monkey" from it's racial connotations and just using it innocently to describe a playful child?

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Reply #47 posted 01/15/18 3:55pm

jjhunsecker

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toejam said:

paisleypark4 said:



toejam said:


What a load of garbage. Calling kids "little monkeys" is not racist. I call my four nephews "little monkeys" all the time.




It's not just any kids but black kids. Know your American history much?


.
Was this being sold to black American kids only? You don't think a black mother has ever called her child "little monkey" in an affectionate way? My family refer to my four nephews as the "little monkeys" all the time in an affectionate way, two of whom are white and two whom are mixed white-Middle Eastern. No one is forcing anyone to buy or wear this. If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. I think it's cute. Many kids are like little monkeys, climbing in trees, cute, getting up to mischief, etc.

.
[Edited 1/15/18 14:19pm]


As I said earlier, there is no history of DEMEANING White people by comparing them to monkeys and apes. That history does exist (worldwide) for Black people.

Context is everything. I have friends and family members (Black) who affectionately call each other the so-called "N word"... Does that mean that anyone can use that word in any context, and expect there not to be some sort of issue?
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Reply #48 posted 01/15/18 3:57pm

paisleypark4

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toejam said:

paisleypark4 said:


It's not just any kids but black kids. Know your American history much?

. Was this being sold to black American kids only? You don't think a black mother has ever called her child "little monkey" in an affectionate way? My family refer to my four nephews as the "little monkeys" all the time in an affectionate way, two of whom are white and two whom are mixed white-Middle Eastern. No one is forcing anyone to buy or wear this. If you don't like it, you don't have to buy it. I think it's cute. Many kids are like little monkeys, climbing in trees, cute, getting up to mischief, etc. . [Edited 1/15/18 14:19pm]

That is cute in a different context. You are talking about something personally amongst your children...however...when they grow up and start learning how the world treats minorities then it may not be in my opion the best idea to call them that anymore. I like the shirt actually and think it is cute, I would not buy it for my niece and nephew though..I'd rather them wear the orange shirt due to the sensetivity of our culture. These are things that caucasian kids and families would not have to think about, but unfortunatley we do and thats the way it is.

When it comes to black people constantly in history being compared to monkeys in our history it cant be ignored. Ever heard of the term "porch monkey"? This child doesnt deserve all this attention as he was the one that picked the shirt out, but we have to be sensetive to historical facets that were created before we existed. I.E. Trump calling one of his cohorts Pocahontas for example. Nice that our president is okay with being oblivious to cultural sensetivity.

Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus
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Reply #49 posted 01/16/18 1:12pm

toejam

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paisleypark4 said:
That is cute in a different context

.
Exactly! The context here is not a racist slogan. It's a cute term for cute kids.

.

To me, saying that our culture shouldn't show images of a black child wearing a shirt describing him affectionately as a "little monkey" - a phase used around the world by parents in a purely affectionate way - suggests to me that you're saying black people can't see the difference between a genuine racist comment and a non-racist one, and that we should use different terms of affection for different races depending on their history.

Toejam @ Peach & Black Podcast: http://peachandblack.podbean.com
Toejam's band "Cheap Fakes": http://cheapfakes.com.au, http://www.facebook.com/cheapfakes
Toejam the solo artist: http://www.youtube.com/scottbignell
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Reply #50 posted 01/16/18 1:22pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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toejam said:

What a load of garbage. Calling kids "little monkeys" is not racist. I call my four nephews "little monkeys" all the time.

not the same. Like the collage of G. W. Bush and chimps all with the same expressions is not racist. But any comparison of Obama as a one IS.

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #51 posted 01/16/18 1:22pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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2freaky4church1 said:

Racism is about ignorance. People don't want to admit they are ignorant. Only being a good example. Not racist but ignorance.

stay classy

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #52 posted 01/16/18 1:45pm

13cjk13

OnlyNDaUsa said:

toejam said:

What a load of garbage. Calling kids "little monkeys" is not racist. I call my four nephews "little monkeys" all the time.

not the same. Like the collage of G. W. Bush and chimps all with the same expressions is not racist. But any comparison of Obama as a one IS.

Exactly.

"Our liberty depends on the freedom of the press, and that cannot be limited without being lost".
-Thomas Jefferson
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Reply #53 posted 01/16/18 2:35pm

214

North C I don't believe it coming from you, apologizing racism. You have broken my heart.

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Reply #54 posted 01/17/18 11:50am

paisleypark4

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OnlyNDaUsa said:



toejam said:


What a load of garbage. Calling kids "little monkeys" is not racist. I call my four nephews "little monkeys" all the time.





not the same. Like the collage of G. W. Bush and chimps all with the same expressions is not racist. But any comparison of Obama as a one IS.





Agree
Download all the shit hop that you can for your kids, neices, nephews, and their friends also. That will prevent them from going out and buying it and will prevent some shit hop sales. Every little bit helps - Andy
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemus
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Reply #55 posted 01/17/18 11:58am

morningsong

toejam said:

paisleypark4 said:
That is cute in a different context

.
Exactly! The context here is not a racist slogan. It's a cute term for cute kids.

.

To me, saying that our culture shouldn't show images of a black child wearing a shirt describing him affectionately as a "little monkey" - a phase used around the world by parents in a purely affectionate way - suggests to me that you're saying black people can't see the difference between a genuine racist comment and a non-racist one, and that we should use different terms of affection for different races depending on their history.




I'm going to tell you right now, if one white person walked up to my grandson and affectionately called him a cute little monkey, I'd hand them their ass. Plain and simple. Racism hasn't evaporated not one bit yet. And no leaway should be given just to make it easier on somebody else. Publically calling a black child monkey is a f**ed up thing for any white person to do. And companies are supposedly people now.

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Reply #56 posted 01/17/18 12:01pm

NorthC

214 said:

North C I don't believe it coming from you, apologizing racism. You have broken my heart.


Sorry for that, but I didn't alologize racism. I'm saying that because something can be seen as racist, doesn't automatically mean that it is. What I don't like is this online hysteria. Now the parents of the child don't have a normal life anymore and shops in South Africa (which provide much needed jobs) are in ruins. I think people are overreacting here. And that's a downside of the "social" media: things get blown out of proportion very fast.
I may disagree with everything you say, but I will defend your right to say it.
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Reply #57 posted 01/17/18 2:39pm

toejam

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morningsong said:

I'm going to tell you right now, if one white person walked up to my grandson and affectionately called him a cute little monkey, I'd hand them their ass. Plain and simple.

But if you knew their intent wasn't racist but affectionate, i.e. in the same way they might call their white grandson a "little monkey", then you'd be a prick for handing them their ass.

There is nothing inherently racist in the phrase. It's cute and can be applied to kids of all races. Kids are generally more active than their parents, love to climb trees (and are more nimble in doing so!), often have a beautiful innocent cheekiness about them that gets lost with age. Affectionately being called a cute "little monkey" should not be a privilege for white kids only.




.
[Edited 1/17/18 14:52pm]
Toejam @ Peach & Black Podcast: http://peachandblack.podbean.com
Toejam's band "Cheap Fakes": http://cheapfakes.com.au, http://www.facebook.com/cheapfakes
Toejam the solo artist: http://www.youtube.com/scottbignell
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Reply #58 posted 01/17/18 2:41pm

toejam

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NorthC said:

214 said:

North C I don't believe it coming from you, apologizing racism. You have broken my heart.


Sorry for that, but I didn't alologize racism. I'm saying that because something can be seen as racist, doesn't automatically mean that it is. What I don't like is this online hysteria. Now the parents of the child don't have a normal life anymore and shops in South Africa (which provide much needed jobs) are in ruins. I think people are overreacting here. And that's a downside of the "social" media: things get blown out of proportion very fast.


Absolutely agree.
Toejam @ Peach & Black Podcast: http://peachandblack.podbean.com
Toejam's band "Cheap Fakes": http://cheapfakes.com.au, http://www.facebook.com/cheapfakes
Toejam the solo artist: http://www.youtube.com/scottbignell
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Reply #59 posted 01/17/18 2:56pm

poppys

H&M is the one who blasted the image worldwide. The backlash is their problem, not the responsibility of those protesting what they did.

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