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Reply #150 posted 10/12/17 8:33am

Lianachan

avatar

free2bFreeda2 said:

: http://www.freemaninstitu...sphinx.htm WAS the SPHINX of GIZA MODELED AFTER an AFRICAN? Count Constantine de Volney In 1787, Count Constantine de Volney -- a French nobleman, philosopher, historian, orientalist, and politician -- embarked on a journey to the East in late 1782 and reached Ottoman Egypt were he spent nearly seven months. Constantine de Volney was troubled much by the institution of slavery. His expressed opinion that the ancient Egyptians were black Africans much departed from the typical European view of the late eighteenth century, but it gave many people cause for reflection. During his visit to Egypt he expressed amazement that the Egyptians – whose civilization was greatly admired in Europe – were not White! "All the Egyptians," wrote de Volney, "have a bloated face, puffed-up eyes, flat nose, thick lips – in a word, the true face of the mulatto. I was tempted to attribute it to the climate, but when I visited the Sphinx, its appearance gave me the key to the riddle. On seeing that head, typically Negro in all its features, I remembered the remarkable passage where Herodotus says: ' As for me, I judge the Colchians to be a colony of the Egyptians because, like them, they are black with woolly hair... "When I visited the Sphinx, I could not help thinking that the figure of that monster furnished the true solution to the enigma (of how the modern Egyptians came to have their 'mulatto' appearance) "In other words, the ancient Egyptians were true Negroes of the same type as all native-born Africans. That being so, we can see how their blood, mixed for several centuries with that of the Greeks and Romans, must have lost the intensity of its original color, while retaining nonetheless the imprint of its original mold. "Just think," de Volney declared incredulously, "that this race of Black men, today our slave and the object of our scorn, is the very race to which we owe our arts, sciences, and even the use of speech! Just imagine, finally, that it is in the midst of people who call themselves the greatest friends of liberty and humanity that one has approved the most barbarous slavery, and questioned whether Black men have the same kind of intelligence as whites! "In other words the ancient Egyptians were true Negroes of the same stock as all the autochthonous peoples of Africa and from the datum one sees how their race, after some centuries of mixing with the blood oRomans and Greeks, must have lost the full blackness of its original color but retained the impress of its original mould." 👀 the sad part of this whole debate is that so many want to discredit the descendants of african americsns as a group of nothings. a peoples who had no part in the positive contributions of ancient nubia, egypt or lands around the upper egypt. the Ptolemaic dynasty was literally one of the lasr egyptian dynasty. thus the light (greek) skin, narrow noses and non woolly hair (which they covered with wigs - styled to look like the darker skinned queens and pharoahs before them) Upper Egypt (by the way) is in africa. The terminology "Upper" and "Lower" derives from the flow of the Nile from the highlands of East Africa northwards to the Mediterranean Sea. ... 🤔 check out the link.

I assume you mean ancestors? Anyway, it's thought by actual Egyptologists that the face on the Great Sphinx is that of the 4th dynasty phaoroh Khafra.

A-nis bidh fios aig daoine nuair a tha mi a 'mionnachadh aig dhaibh.
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Reply #151 posted 10/12/17 8:39am

Lianachan

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A-nis bidh fios aig daoine nuair a tha mi a 'mionnachadh aig dhaibh.
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Reply #152 posted 10/12/17 9:05am

purplefam99

Oh good Daesin came back.

Did you check out the Historical Genius Match on the
Geno project?? You had asked about a test for ancient Egypt
Markers.
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Reply #153 posted 10/12/17 9:14am

Dasein

2elijah said:

Dasein said:


Of course you stand by your posts. I wouldn't expect you to do otherwise, even if you were absolute-
ly wrong for sometimes, it's easier to double down than to let our ego take a hit and say things like:
"Hey, you know what? I probably read your post wrong for whatever reason. My bad, dude!"

You need to save face, so as you were . . .




[Edited 10/12/17 5:18am]

Save face for what and what does ego have to do with it? falloff I just don't agree with your 'generalized' view on how Black Americans view ancient Egypt. How difficult is that for you to comprehend? Your opinion is not written in stone, as no else's is, and is open for challenge. You just have to learn to accept that not everyone will agree with your views on the topic. That's it. We will have to agree to disagree, as I have already done several times. No need to keep going in circles over it. End of story. Enjoy your day. [Edited 10/12/17 7:53am]


No, you cannot bring yourself to admit that you read my posts wrongly. So, because most people
are reluctant to make such admissions, they would rather double down on their points (proven to
be made in error) in order to justify not saying: "I was wrong." That is what I meant by you saving
face: it's a defense mechanism to protect a fragile ego which can't handle remonstration, even if
it was offered without any antagonism. I don't mind a disagreement, but I certainly do mind
when people create strawman arguments from my post either intentionally or unintentionally. For
you to even say that you "disagree with my generalized view on how Black Americans view ancient
Egypt" is kinda dumb on your part because I have said many times that Black American interest in
those ancient civilizations needs no justification and was never what I was debating in the first place,
hence me accusing you of creating strawman arguments.

Yet, I even acknowledged in this thread that I should have clarified in my original post that I was not
criticizing any interest in Egypt or Nubia and also wrote: "lesson learned." I try to own up to my
mistakes and I do not mind disagreement, as indicated by me posting an article by Boyd-Pates in the
other thread that runs counter in some ways to my overall presentation in this thread and the other
in question.

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Reply #154 posted 10/12/17 9:37am

Dasein

purplefam99 said:

Oh good Daesin came back. Did you check out the Historical Genius Match on the Geno project?? You had asked about a test for ancient Egypt Markers.


I stand corrected: there does seem to be a test for "ancient" Egyptian DNA. I read this interesting
article at CNN. Please tell me how you reconcile its findings with whatever it is you wanted to show
by mentioning your husband's DNA for taken from the above:

"Publishing its findings in Nature Communications, the study concluded that preserved remains found
in Abusir-el Meleq, Middle Egypt, were closest genetic relatives of Neolithic and Bronze Age
populations from the Near East, Anatolia and Eastern Mediterranean Europeans.

Modern Egyptians, by comparison, share much more DNA with sub-Saharan populations. The findings
have turned years of theory on its head, causing Egyptologists to re-evaluate the region's history
while unlocking new tools for scientists working in the field."

What does this appear to indicate - that ancient Egyptians were genetically closer to Middle/Near
Easterners, Turks, and Europeans than they were with "sub-Saharan" (i.e. BLACK people)? So, let me
know what you think considering this new information. By the way, the Nature Communications piece
referenced in the CNN article is utterly, utterly fascinating - thanks to OF4S for even creating this
thread which has been illuminating.

Anyways, other tidbits from the CNN article:

""So if we don't find sub-Saharan African ancestry in those people, that is pretty representative, at
least for Middle Egypt."

Krause hypothesizes that ancient Northern Egypt would be much the same, if not more, linked to the Near East.
Ancient
Southern Egypt might be a different matter, however, where populations lived closer to Nubia, home of
the "Black Pharaohs"
in what is now Sudan."

(Fascinating!)


"Modern Egyptians were found to "inherit 8% more ancestry from African ancestors" than the mummies studied.
The paper
cites increased mobility along the Nile, increased long-distance commerce and the era of the trans-Saharan
slave trade as
potential reasons why.

The team's findings do come with one obvious caveat: "All our genetic data (was) obtained from a single site in
Middle Egypt
and may not be representative for all of ancient Egypt," the paper concedes."

(Interesting!)

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Reply #155 posted 10/12/17 10:26am

2elijah

avatar

Dasein said:



2elijah said:


Dasein said:



Of course you stand by your posts. I wouldn't expect you to do otherwise, even if you were absolute-
ly wrong for sometimes, it's easier to double down than to let our ego take a hit and say things like:
"Hey, you know what? I probably read your post wrong for whatever reason. My bad, dude!"

You need to save face, so as you were . . .





[Edited 10/12/17 5:18am]



Save face for what and what does ego have to do with it? falloff I just don't agree with your 'generalized' view on how Black Americans view ancient Egypt. How difficult is that for you to comprehend? Your opinion is not written in stone, as no else's is, and is open for challenge. You just have to learn to accept that not everyone will agree with your views on the topic. That's it. We will have to agree to disagree, as I have already done several times. No need to keep going in circles over it. End of story. Enjoy your day. [Edited 10/12/17 7:53am]


No, you cannot bring yourself to admit that you read my posts wrongly. So, because most people
are reluctant to make such admissions, they would rather double down on their points (proven to
be made in error) in order to justify not saying: "I was wrong." That is what I meant by you saving
face: it's a defense mechanism to protect a fragile ego which can't handle remonstration, even if
it was offered without any antagonism. I don't mind a disagreement, but I certainly do mind
when people create strawman arguments from my post either intentionally or unintentionally. For
you to even say that you "disagree with my generalized view on how Black Americans view ancient
Egypt" is kinda dumb on your part because I have said many times that Black American interest in
those ancient civilizations needs no justification and was never what I was debating in the first place,
hence me accusing you of creating strawman arguments.

Yet, I even acknowledged in this thread that I should have clarified in my original post that I was not
criticizing any interest in Egypt or Nubia and also wrote: "lesson learned." I try to own up to my
mistakes and I do not mind disagreement, as indicated by me posting an article by Boyd-Pates in the
other thread that runs counter in some ways to my overall presentation in this thread and the other
in question.


You're pathetic. You won't sleep until you force me to falsely admit to reading your post wrong. I did not read your post wrong. You just have an issue with others having a different view than yours and disagreeing with your opinions. Keep knocking yourself out over it.
[Edited 10/12/17 10:29am]
'Trump voters got Hoodwinked by Trump' popcorn coke
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Reply #156 posted 10/12/17 10:42am

Dasein

I can live with being pathetic, but I don't think I could live with being an arrant dolt. The
point remains that you keep accusing me of criticizing Black Americans for being interested
in ancient east African cultures, which is something I never did. I disagree with Orgers all
the time, but nowhere is it required that I suffer fools gladly for too long. Here, I disagree
with those Black Americans of west African stock making an arbitrary lineal and cultural con-
nection to east African civilizations simply because they were (1) African and (2) share the
same complexion. And, I was initially quite friendly about it!

Those living with a fragile ego that can't acknowledge making an error in a debate usually
need the last word in order to feel like they have accomplished something so as to save that
ego from incorporating shame and/or embarrassment. So, please take it!

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Reply #157 posted 10/12/17 10:56am

purplefam99

Dasein said:



purplefam99 said:


Oh good Daesin came back. Did you check out the Historical Genius Match on the Geno project?? You had asked about a test for ancient Egypt Markers.


I stand corrected: there does seem to be a test for "ancient" Egyptian DNA. I read this interesting
article at CNN. Please tell me how you reconcile its findings with whatever it is you wanted to show
by mentioning your husband's DNA for taken from the above:



"Publishing its findings in Nature Communications, the study concluded that preserved remains found
in Abusir-el Meleq, Middle Egypt, were closest genetic relatives of Neolithic and Bronze Age
populations from the Near East, Anatolia and Eastern Mediterranean Europeans.


Modern Egyptians, by comparison, share much more DNA with sub-Saharan populations. The findings
have turned years of theory on its head, causing Egyptologists to re-evaluate the region's history
while unlocking new tools for scientists working in the field."


What does this appear to indicate - that ancient Egyptians were genetically closer to Middle/Near
Easterners, Turks, and Europeans than they were with "sub-Saharan" (i.e. BLACK people)? So, let me
know what you think considering this new information. By the way, the Nature Communications piece
referenced in the CNN article is utterly, utterly fascinating - thanks to OF4S for even creating this
thread which has been illuminating.

Anyways, other tidbits from the CNN article:


""So if we don't find sub-Saharan African ancestry in those people, that is pretty representative, at
least for Middle Egypt."


Krause hypothesizes that ancient Northern Egypt would be much the same, if not more, linked to the Near East.
Ancient
Southern Egypt might be a different matter, however, where populations lived closer to Nubia, home of
the "Black Pharaohs"
in what is now Sudan."


(Fascinating!)


"Modern Egyptians were found to "inherit 8% more ancestry from African ancestors" than the mummies studied.
The paper
cites increased mobility along the Nile, increased long-distance commerce and the era of the trans-Saharan
slave trade as
potential reasons why.


The team's findings do come with one obvious caveat: "All our genetic data (was) obtained from a single site in
Middle Egypt
and may not be representative for all of ancient Egypt," the paper concedes."

(Interesting!)








Just letting you know there was a test for ancient Egypt man, cause you asked me too. And to add that some of my DNA revealed East African.
[Edited 10/12/17 11:04am]
[Edited 10/12/17 11:10am]
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Reply #158 posted 10/12/17 10:59am

Dasein

^

Okay, and now I'm asking you to reconcile the findings of that CNN article with your posts
in this thread.


[Edited 10/12/17 11:00am]

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Reply #159 posted 10/12/17 11:06am

purplefam99

Dasein said:

^

Okay, and now I'm asking you to reconcile the findings of that CNN article with your posts
in this thread.


[Edited 10/12/17 11:00am]




That my Husband has some ancient Egyptian in him from somewhere along the line.
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Reply #160 posted 10/12/17 11:19am

Dasein

purplefam99 said:

Dasein said:

^

Okay, and now I'm asking you to reconcile the findings of that CNN article with your posts
in this thread.


[Edited 10/12/17 11:00am]

That my Husband has some ancient Egyptian in him from somewhere along the line.


Okay, but from Northern Egypt, Middle Egypt, or Southern Egypt?

Because, depending upon which section of Egypt he's allegedly from seems to have something to
say specifically about his genetic make up, being that ancient Southern Egypt was mostly Black
and that it is only today that all modern Egyptians can trace their genetic kinship with sub-Saharan
peoples.

Otherwise, this was a poor response and actually not any kind of reconciliation at all.

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Reply #161 posted 10/12/17 11:26am

purplefam99

Dasein said:



purplefam99 said:


Dasein said:

^

Okay, and now I'm asking you to reconcile the findings of that CNN article with your posts
in this thread.



[Edited 10/12/17 11:00am]



That my Husband has some ancient Egyptian in him from somewhere along the line.


Okay, but from Northern Egypt, Middle Egypt, or Southern Egypt?

Because, depending upon which section of Egypt he's allegedly from seems to have something to
say specifically about his genetic make up, being that ancient Southern Egypt was mostly Black
and that it is only today that all modern Egyptians can trace their genetic kinship with sub-Saharan
peoples.

Otherwise, this was a poor response and actually not any kind of reconciliation at all.




Yeah that is all I have for you that you asked me when there was a test for ancient Egypt to let you
Know. I did. I'm not here for anything more than that. Sorry. To add the profile
Didn't say which section of Egypt, perhaps it will in the future. That is what is cool about the geno project they update according to new findings.
[Edited 10/12/17 11:29am]
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Reply #162 posted 10/12/17 12:04pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

Dasein said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

that was a big part of the black power movement of the 70s (they incorporated Kenya Ghana too)
Erykah Badu pushes the Kemet/Egypt thing very far too


Yes, I think I can understand the "Black Power" movement and the "Black is beautiful" movement
out of the 60s and 70s as well especially since Black Americans, historically, have been told that we
aren't beautiful and that our peculiar history suggests we are inferior culturally and/or genetically to
others. If what Badu is doing is simply celebrating Egyptian/Kemet cultures because they are Afri-
can, that's one thing. But to assert that she is or could be Egyptian or Kemetic or Nubian simply
because they were Black and she is too, then that's another thing that could border on being a racial
or cultural fetishism as well as being close to or an enactment of an appropriation.



Yeah Erykah get's into some deep 'stuff' with Kemet

she's into some stuff lol

[Edited 10/16/17 8:02am]

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #163 posted 10/12/17 1:20pm

NorthC

OldFriends4Sale said:



Dasein said:








2) Black Americans who think they are related to ancient Egypt and ancient Nubia genetically or cult-
ally simply because those civilizations were African are making a facile relationship and that is what
I'm warning against."









that was a big part of the black power movement of the 70s (they incorporated Kenya too)
Erykah Badu pushes the Kemet/Egypt thing very far too




Incorporated Kenya? What does that mean?
Don't ever lose your dreams.
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Reply #164 posted 10/16/17 7:59am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #165 posted 10/16/17 8:00am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #166 posted 10/16/17 8:01am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

NorthC said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

that was a big part of the black power movement of the 70s (they incorporated Kenya too)
Erykah Badu pushes the Kemet/Egypt thing very far too

Incorporated Kenya? What does that mean?

oops - I mean Ghana

using Swahili, Kente cloth, the creation of Kwanzaa(pulling elements from Ghana)

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #167 posted 10/16/17 8:05am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

Oldfriends, ahh, are you white?

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #168 posted 10/16/17 10:37am

NorthC

OldFriends4Sale said:



NorthC said:


OldFriends4Sale said:



that was a big part of the black power movement of the 70s (they incorporated Kenya too)
Erykah Badu pushes the Kemet/Egypt thing very far too





Incorporated Kenya? What does that mean?


oops - I mean Ghana



using Swahili, Kente cloth, the creation of Kwanzaa(pulling elements from Ghana)


You really are getting your African countries mixed up! Swahili is spoken in Kenya and Tanzania, not Ghana, which is in the other side of the continent.
Don't ever lose your dreams.
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Reply #169 posted 10/16/17 11:07am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

2freaky4church1 said:

Oldfriends, ahh, are you white?

no

R

U

?

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #170 posted 10/16/17 11:10am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

NorthC said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

oops - I mean Ghana

using Swahili, Kente cloth, the creation of Kwanzaa(pulling elements from Ghana)

You really are getting your African countries mixed up! Swahili is spoken in Kenya and Tanzania, not Ghana, which is in the other side of the continent.

That is what happens when you operate on 2hrs of sleep and trees and tree limbs are dropping

.

Ghana was the country I meant in general for the Kente cloth and the element of Kwanzaa use of libations. Next to Egypt Ghana is the country Africa-Americans drew from in the 1970s

and I guess I was right in using Kenya and Swahili

.

Did you original question get answered?

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #171 posted 10/17/17 2:02am

NorthC

OldFriends4Sale said:



NorthC said:


OldFriends4Sale said:



oops - I mean Ghana



using Swahili, Kente cloth, the creation of Kwanzaa(pulling elements from Ghana)



You really are getting your African countries mixed up! Swahili is spoken in Kenya and Tanzania, not Ghana, which is in the other side of the continent.



That is what happens when you operate on 2hrs of sleep and trees and tree limbs are dropping


.


Ghana was the country I meant in general for the Kente cloth and the element of Kwanzaa use of libations. Next to Egypt Ghana is the country Africa-Americans drew from in the 1970s



and I guess I was right in using Kenya and Swahili


.


Did you original question get answered?


Sort of. I can understand black Americans feel a connection to West Africa because that's where their ancestors came from and Ghana is one of the few English speaking countries in that part of the continent.
In East Africa, it was the Arabs that were the slave traders, so the history there is very different. Swahili is a mix between Arabic and African languages.
[Edited 10/17/17 2:03am]
Don't ever lose your dreams.
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Reply #172 posted 10/19/17 6:46am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

Do you think Disney did a good job representing the Egyptians?

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #173 posted 10/19/17 8:00am

Graycap23

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

Do you think Disney did a good job representing the Egyptians?

From 3000 years ago? No.

Correct a wise man and u create a leader. Correct a FOOL and u create an enemy.
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Reply #174 posted 10/19/17 8:13am

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

Graycap23 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

Do you think Disney did a good job representing the Egyptians?

From 3000 years ago? No.

why?

They look more like the images of ancient Egyptian artwork then the Eurocentric movie characters

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #175 posted 10/19/17 9:16am

2freaky4church
1

avatar

Yea, that is a bigoted movie.

"2freaky is a complete stud." DJ
"2freaky is very down." 2Elijah.
"2freaky convinced me to join Antifa: OnlyNDA
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Reply #176 posted 10/19/17 3:07pm

Dasein

OldFriends4Sale said:

Graycap23 said:

From 3000 years ago? No.

why?

They look more like the images of ancient Egyptian artwork then the Eurocentric movie characters


I agree.

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Reply #177 posted 10/19/17 6:44pm

Graycap23

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:

Graycap23 said:

From 3000 years ago? No.

why?

They look more like the images of ancient Egyptian artwork then the Eurocentric movie characters

The Eurocentic characters is simple CBS and a complete fabrication.

Correct a wise man and u create a leader. Correct a FOOL and u create an enemy.
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Reply #178 posted 10/19/17 7:05pm

OldFriends4Sal
e

avatar

moderator

Graycap23 said:

OldFriends4Sale said:

why?

They look more like the images of ancient Egyptian artwork then the Eurocentric movie characters

The Eurocentic characters is simple CBS and a complete fabrication.

Graycap, I know this lol
I asked about the images from the Disney movie, the Egyptians resemble those on the ancient Egyptian artwork

What's the matter with your life
Is poverty bringing U down?
Is the mailman jerking U 'round?
Did he put your million dollar check
In someone else's box?
Tell me, what's the matter with your world
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Reply #179 posted 10/19/17 8:26pm

Graycap23

avatar

OldFriends4Sale said:



Graycap23 said:




OldFriends4Sale said:




why?



They look more like the images of ancient Egyptian artwork then the Eurocentric movie characters





The Eurocentic characters is simple CBS and a complete fabrication.





Graycap, I know this lol
I asked about the images from the Disney movie, the Egyptians resemble those on the ancient Egyptian artwork



they look like the people who populate that region now, not 3000 years ago.
Correct a wise man and u create a leader. Correct a FOOL and u create an enemy.
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