independent and unofficial
Prince fan community site
Mon 18th Dec 2017 12:45am
Welcome! Sign up or enter username and password to remember me
Forum jump
Forums > Politics & Religion > Attraction and White Supremacy?
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Page 6 of 6 <123456
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
Reply #150 posted 07/29/17 12:43am

mjscarousal

SeventeenDayze said:

214 said:

Here in Mexico is not, i don't know there in the USA, i'm merxican i know better than you girl.

Oh, you're one of those people who thinks they can speak on behalf of the entire population. You even said yourself that you don't know what goes on here in America. You think you know better than me? Give me a break. You don't know ANYTHING about me so what can you tell me about myself? Get lost.

Ignore that poster 17, that poster is mentally unstabled, it was harassing me in my pm's and on the forum and I dont even say a damn thing to it.

[Edited 7/29/17 0:46am]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #151 posted 07/29/17 1:19am

mjscarousal

deebee said:

peedub said:


i think i get what you're saying, and i think this is exactly what i experienced with the black lady that i dated most seriously. we never discussed race. she just dug white guys. we participated in the disparate aspects of each others culture as if they were just new experiences. never once did she feel the need to identify as black. she didn't do 'black' stuff, it was just stuff that she did and she took for granted that i was aware she was black. it was all cool. she was the most secure and confident woman i've met to this day. i checked up on her a couple years ago...she's some kind of professor of african american history, married to a white dude, got a couple kids.

There's lots of ways relationships can work, and it sounds like that worked for you and her for that time. I'm not pushing the idea that people should not discuss race, or not identify in a certain way, or not do 'stuff' that's commonly associated with their race, or anything like that, though (though, if that works for a certain couple, neither am I saying that they should do otherwise). There seem to me to be very compelling reasons why people might find that these issues are imbued with tremendously potent meanings, and that those may help explain anxieties about going one way or a strong preference towards going the other, etc etc.

I'm just reflecting on the peculiarities of these ideas that pervade our societies, and how their arbitrariness and prescriptiveness might potentially trip us up in some cases - unnecessarily, though understandably. What particularly struck me about the example JJ gave was that the thing that might be assumed to be alienating (going outside of 'one's own') felt quite self-affirming, but what was assumed to be authentic (staying with 'one's own') involved taking on board someone else's definition of oneself - which would surely be the essence of alienation or self-denial.

[Edited 7/27/17 13:03pm]

IMO, being colorblind is just as problematic as being racist (whether you are in a relationship or not). When interracial couples play that color blind card, those relationships usually do not last long because they don't confront the race/culture differences properly. Its important to acknowledge and embrace cultural and racial differences in your partner. You can't pretend your partner is not of a different race nor ignore talking about race because race/culture will eventually come up as some sort of conflict in the relationship and anyone who suggests otherwise is playing that color blind mentality. That is why it is good to communicate and gain perspectives on how your partner feels about it. I don't see how you can be friends or be in a relationship (with other races) and not talk about race/culture at all especially as an African American. I feel sometimes African Americans feel talking about race/culture makes White people uncomfortable (it does because they don't like to be told their racists because of white priveledge)...well sometimes you need to make people uncomfortable to educate others about who you are AND to be respected. For me personally, I would need to be able to go home and vent to my White boyfriend or husband about being racially profiled on the street. I would need for him to be able to show empathy/identify culturally with my feelings and the culturally understanding of racism against Blacks without being offended.

[Edited 7/29/17 1:26am]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #152 posted 07/30/17 2:22pm

214

mjscarousal said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Oh, you're one of those people who thinks they can speak on behalf of the entire population. You even said yourself that you don't know what goes on here in America. You think you know better than me? Give me a break. You don't know ANYTHING about me so what can you tell me about myself? Get lost.

Ignore that poster 17, that poster is mentally unstabled, it was harassing me in my pm's and on the forum and I dont even say a damn thing to it.

[Edited 7/29/17 0:46am]

Wonderful, i see you call "mentally unstabled" to all of those who don't agree with you. The mentally unstabled person is you and your obsession with Beyoncé.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #153 posted 07/31/17 1:47am

deebee

avatar

mjscarousal said:

deebee said:

There's lots of ways relationships can work, and it sounds like that worked for you and her for that time. I'm not pushing the idea that people should not discuss race, or not identify in a certain way, or not do 'stuff' that's commonly associated with their race, or anything like that, though (though, if that works for a certain couple, neither am I saying that they should do otherwise). There seem to me to be very compelling reasons why people might find that these issues are imbued with tremendously potent meanings, and that those may help explain anxieties about going one way or a strong preference towards going the other, etc etc.

I'm just reflecting on the peculiarities of these ideas that pervade our societies, and how their arbitrariness and prescriptiveness might potentially trip us up in some cases - unnecessarily, though understandably. What particularly struck me about the example JJ gave was that the thing that might be assumed to be alienating (going outside of 'one's own') felt quite self-affirming, but what was assumed to be authentic (staying with 'one's own') involved taking on board someone else's definition of oneself - which would surely be the essence of alienation or self-denial.

[Edited 7/27/17 13:03pm]

IMO, being colorblind is just as problematic as being racist (whether you are in a relationship or not). When interracial couples play that color blind card, those relationships usually do not last long because they don't confront the race/culture differences properly. Its important to acknowledge and embrace cultural and racial differences in your partner. You can't pretend your partner is not of a different race nor ignore talking about race because race/culture will eventually come up as some sort of conflict in the relationship and anyone who suggests otherwise is playing that color blind mentality. That is why it is good to communicate and gain perspectives on how your partner feels about it. I don't see how you can be friends or be in a relationship (with other races) and not talk about race/culture at all especially as an African American. I feel sometimes African Americans feel talking about race/culture makes White people uncomfortable (it does because they don't like to be told their racists because of white priveledge)...well sometimes you need to make people uncomfortable to educate others about who you are AND to be respected. For me personally, I would need to be able to go home and vent to my White boyfriend or husband about being racially profiled on the street. I would need for him to be able to show empathy/identify culturally with my feelings and the culturally understanding of racism against Blacks without being offended.

[Edited 7/29/17 1:26am]

Yes, I also suspect that, for most interracial couples, the issues of race and racism are going to come up sooner or later, and that it seems likely that that will be hard to avoid in a highly racialised society. The example of coming home after being profiled on the street serves to illustrate that well. (Again, though, I want to be open to the idea that a certain couple could potentially have another way of doing things - and, if that suits both parties, good luck to them.)

My initial point to JJ was about the assumed link between 'race' (as biology) and culture. There's an argument I think is persuasive that, as the language of 'race' began to lose currency in the 20th century - first, in the wake of the horrific consequences of racial difference discourse having made themselves known with the Holocaust; then, in the 80s and 90s, with the rise of the view that race is a social construct - substitute concepts began to appear. One of those was 'culture', which seems now to slip in where "race" seems unable to bear the explanatory weight of what's being expressed - as in the elision "race/culture." Michaels, who I mentioned above, gives the example of how the slippage enables statements that would otherwise seem obviously racist to us to be reframed to pass muster, e.g. the racist statement "Black people are good at basketball because they can jump higher" simply becomes the culturally 'affirmative' statement "Basketball plays an important role in Black culture, therefore Black people are better at it."

What was of interest to me was the way an aspect of this problem of assuming biology and culture to be conjoined seems to be stark when we find ourselves reflecting on a situation in which a person starts feeling anxiety about passing over things he's arbitrarily assumed to have a connection to but doesn't, in favour of things he's assumed not to have a connection to but does. The peculiarity of that seems worth mulling over.

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #154 posted 07/31/17 6:00am

mjscarousal

deebee said:

mjscarousal said:

IMO, being colorblind is just as problematic as being racist (whether you are in a relationship or not). When interracial couples play that color blind card, those relationships usually do not last long because they don't confront the race/culture differences properly. Its important to acknowledge and embrace cultural and racial differences in your partner. You can't pretend your partner is not of a different race nor ignore talking about race because race/culture will eventually come up as some sort of conflict in the relationship and anyone who suggests otherwise is playing that color blind mentality. That is why it is good to communicate and gain perspectives on how your partner feels about it. I don't see how you can be friends or be in a relationship (with other races) and not talk about race/culture at all especially as an African American. I feel sometimes African Americans feel talking about race/culture makes White people uncomfortable (it does because they don't like to be told their racists because of white priveledge)...well sometimes you need to make people uncomfortable to educate others about who you are AND to be respected. For me personally, I would need to be able to go home and vent to my White boyfriend or husband about being racially profiled on the street. I would need for him to be able to show empathy/identify culturally with my feelings and the culturally understanding of racism against Blacks without being offended.

[Edited 7/29/17 1:26am]

Yes, I also suspect that, for most interracial couples, the issues of race and racism are going to come up sooner or later, and that it seems likely that that will be hard to avoid in a highly racialised society. The example of coming home after being profiled on the street serves to illustrate that well. (Again, though, I want to be open to the idea that a certain couple could potentially have another way of doing things - and, if that suits both parties, good luck to them.)

My initial point to JJ was about the assumed link between 'race' (as biology) and culture. There's an argument I think is persuasive that, as the language of 'race' began to lose currency in the 20th century - first, in the wake of the horrific consequences of racial difference discourse having made themselves known with the Holocaust; then, in the 80s and 90s, with the rise of the view that race is a social construct - substitute concepts began to appear. One of those was 'culture', which seems now to slip in where "race" seems unable to bear the explanatory weight of what's being expressed - as in the elision "race/culture." Michaels, who I mentioned above, gives the example of how the slippage enables statements that would otherwise seem obviously racist to us to be reframed to pass muster, e.g. the racist statement "Black people are good at basketball because they can jump higher" simply becomes the culturally 'affirmative' statement "Basketball plays an important role in Black culture, therefore Black people are better at it."

What was of interest to me was the way an aspect of this problem of assuming biology and culture to be conjoined seems to be stark when we find ourselves reflecting on a situation in which a person starts feeling anxiety about passing over things he's arbitrarily assumed to have a connection to but doesn't, in favour of things he's assumed not to have a connection to but does. The peculiarity of that seems worth mulling over.

OK. IMO, a relationship of this stature would not last for the long haul. If a partner ignores their partners race/culture they are ignoring an aspect of the person they are with. Race specifically may not necessarily come up as the conflict in the relationship but potentially aspects about a person related to their culture eventually will. It will serve as a barrier because its was ignored and not adequately addressed.

As far as the bolded, IMO people experience anxiety when they are interested or attracted to things that contradicts societal ideals related to their race because they lack confidence and self assurance in themselves. Society shouldn't define you. People shouldn't define you. You define yourself. When you are self assured in who you are; what you like; what you dislike; what you will not take; what you will take; how you want people to treat you etc, you are not going to be fearful of what others think about you because you won't care. That anxiety comes from a place of insecurity about what others may think about your interests and fear of disappointing them or not being accepted. In relation to the thread, there is a painful sensitive history between Blacks and Whites in this country and its not pretty so its understandable that it will cause parties to be uncomfortable or question their attractiveness to the opposite race. However, if you are comfortable with yourself ,racial identity and what you like, I don't think it should matter.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #155 posted 07/31/17 1:56pm

SeventeenDayze

jazzvirtuoso said:

SeventeenDayze said:

The topic of white supremacy, racism, etc has been discussed on this forum since the beginning of time but I was wondering if there have ever been any discussions about the issue of attraction and whether or not it can possibly be based on principles gleaned from white supremacy.

For those of you who don't know, I'm a black American woman who is primarily (and sometimes only) attracted to white men. Sometimes I wonder if I hadn't grown up in a country that was shaped by this ideology of white supremacy would I still have that same attraction. At what point can you say that you're separating you're own thoughts and desires from that of a very pervasive and powerful institution that was the foundation of the society that you grew up in?

Do you all think that attraction is dictated by society or does it come from the invididual within? Even sometimes when I'm out and about I always find myself checking out the white men and not really paying attention to the black men around me. Is this a result of living in a country founded on a supremacist ideology or just simply personal choice?

Just out of curiosity, are you a dark skin female?

No, I'm not dark skin at all. Why do you ask??

Trolls be gone!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #156 posted 07/31/17 2:31pm

SeventeenDayze

mjscarousal said:

deebee said:

Yes, I also suspect that, for most interracial couples, the issues of race and racism are going to come up sooner or later, and that it seems likely that that will be hard to avoid in a highly racialised society. The example of coming home after being profiled on the street serves to illustrate that well. (Again, though, I want to be open to the idea that a certain couple could potentially have another way of doing things - and, if that suits both parties, good luck to them.)

My initial point to JJ was about the assumed link between 'race' (as biology) and culture. There's an argument I think is persuasive that, as the language of 'race' began to lose currency in the 20th century - first, in the wake of the horrific consequences of racial difference discourse having made themselves known with the Holocaust; then, in the 80s and 90s, with the rise of the view that race is a social construct - substitute concepts began to appear. One of those was 'culture', which seems now to slip in where "race" seems unable to bear the explanatory weight of what's being expressed - as in the elision "race/culture." Michaels, who I mentioned above, gives the example of how the slippage enables statements that would otherwise seem obviously racist to us to be reframed to pass muster, e.g. the racist statement "Black people are good at basketball because they can jump higher" simply becomes the culturally 'affirmative' statement "Basketball plays an important role in Black culture, therefore Black people are better at it."

What was of interest to me was the way an aspect of this problem of assuming biology and culture to be conjoined seems to be stark when we find ourselves reflecting on a situation in which a person starts feeling anxiety about passing over things he's arbitrarily assumed to have a connection to but doesn't, in favour of things he's assumed not to have a connection to but does. The peculiarity of that seems worth mulling over.

OK. IMO, a relationship of this stature would not last for the long haul. If a partner ignores their partners race/culture they are ignoring an aspect of the person they are with. Race specifically may not necessarily come up as the conflict in the relationship but potentially aspects about a person related to their culture eventually will. It will serve as a barrier because its was ignored and not adequately addressed.

As far as the bolded, IMO people experience anxiety when they are interested or attracted to things that contradicts societal ideals related to their race because they lack confidence and self assurance in themselves. Society shouldn't define you. People shouldn't define you. You define yourself. When you are self assured in who you are; what you like; what you dislike; what you will not take; what you will take; how you want people to treat you etc, you are not going to be fearful of what others think about you because you won't care. That anxiety comes from a place of insecurity about what others may think about your interests and fear of disappointing them or not being accepted. In relation to the thread, there is a painful sensitive history between Blacks and Whites in this country and its not pretty so its understandable that it will cause parties to be uncomfortable or question their attractiveness to the opposite race. However, if you are comfortable with yourself ,racial identity and what you like, I don't think it should matter.

I just recently got a message on a dating site that I'm on from a white man. We have chatted online several times and then the issue of race and social issues came up. This is the point in the convo where I found out that he's a conservative Republican and when he told me some of his viewpoints on social issues, etc. I was really wondering if it was going to be a deal breaker. He seems like he would be nice otherwise but certain comments he made really had me baffled. He seemed to get upset when the issue of race was brought up and said "why does everything have to be about race". I told him that if he isn't comfortable then we probably shouldn't be friends at all because if I ever wanted to talk to him about those things then it would be appreciated if he would at least be sympathetic and try to listen. I dunno. I want to get to know him more but the political opinions about social issues were really off putting. I suppose every rose has its thorn.

Trolls be gone!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #157 posted 07/31/17 4:47pm

mjscarousal

SeventeenDayze said:

mjscarousal said:

OK. IMO, a relationship of this stature would not last for the long haul. If a partner ignores their partners race/culture they are ignoring an aspect of the person they are with. Race specifically may not necessarily come up as the conflict in the relationship but potentially aspects about a person related to their culture eventually will. It will serve as a barrier because its was ignored and not adequately addressed.

As far as the bolded, IMO people experience anxiety when they are interested or attracted to things that contradicts societal ideals related to their race because they lack confidence and self assurance in themselves. Society shouldn't define you. People shouldn't define you. You define yourself. When you are self assured in who you are; what you like; what you dislike; what you will not take; what you will take; how you want people to treat you etc, you are not going to be fearful of what others think about you because you won't care. That anxiety comes from a place of insecurity about what others may think about your interests and fear of disappointing them or not being accepted. In relation to the thread, there is a painful sensitive history between Blacks and Whites in this country and its not pretty so its understandable that it will cause parties to be uncomfortable or question their attractiveness to the opposite race. However, if you are comfortable with yourself ,racial identity and what you like, I don't think it should matter.

I just recently got a message on a dating site that I'm on from a white man. We have chatted online several times and then the issue of race and social issues came up. This is the point in the convo where I found out that he's a conservative Republican and when he told me some of his viewpoints on social issues, etc. I was really wondering if it was going to be a deal breaker. He seems like he would be nice otherwise but certain comments he made really had me baffled. He seemed to get upset when the issue of race was brought up and said "why does everything have to be about race". I told him that if he isn't comfortable then we probably shouldn't be friends at all because if I ever wanted to talk to him about those things then it would be appreciated if he would at least be sympathetic and try to listen. I dunno. I want to get to know him more but the political opinions about social issues were really off putting. I suppose every rose has its thorn.

Thats a red flag. You also said he was a White conservative? Yea gurl let that go....next? lol See right there that is not going to work out because that is a problem. You are a democrat but you are also a very open and liberated woman. IMO, political ideologies goes far deeper than just politics. They frame how many people view culture, society and life and shouldn't be taken lightly. If he can not respect your interests and doesn't want to talk about race (especially when you are a African American woman and deal with racial situations on a daily basis) than its best you go your seperate ways. Everything is about race because everything IS about race. Like I said earlier, white people get uncomfortable talking about race with Black people because they don't like being told their racists. I have engaged in conversations with White people that objectively acknowledge their white priveledge and acknowledge the political and systemic equality against African Americans. However, white people as whole most of the time can't do this. That is why they are more comfortable playing the color blind card because its a "safe" alternative. Go with what you gut tells you and stand by your values. If it doesn't feel right than just walk away.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #158 posted 07/31/17 5:45pm

SeventeenDayze

mjscarousal said:

SeventeenDayze said:

I just recently got a message on a dating site that I'm on from a white man. We have chatted online several times and then the issue of race and social issues came up. This is the point in the convo where I found out that he's a conservative Republican and when he told me some of his viewpoints on social issues, etc. I was really wondering if it was going to be a deal breaker. He seems like he would be nice otherwise but certain comments he made really had me baffled. He seemed to get upset when the issue of race was brought up and said "why does everything have to be about race". I told him that if he isn't comfortable then we probably shouldn't be friends at all because if I ever wanted to talk to him about those things then it would be appreciated if he would at least be sympathetic and try to listen. I dunno. I want to get to know him more but the political opinions about social issues were really off putting. I suppose every rose has its thorn.

Thats a red flag. You also said he was a White conservative? Yea gurl let that go....next? lol See right there that is not going to work out because that is a problem. You are a democrat but you are also a very open and liberated woman. IMO, political ideologies goes far deeper than just politics. They frame how many people view culture, society and life and shouldn't be taken lightly. If he can not respect your interests and doesn't want to talk about race (especially when you are a African American woman and deal with racial situations on a daily basis) than its best you go your seperate ways. Everything is about race because everything IS about race. Like I said earlier, white people get uncomfortable talking about race with Black people because they don't like being told their racists. I have engaged in conversations with White people that objectively acknowledge their white priveledge and acknowledge the political and systemic equality against African Americans. However, white people as whole most of the time can't do this. That is why they are more comfortable playing the color blind card because its a "safe" alternative. Go with what you gut tells you and stand by your values. If it doesn't feel right than just walk away.

I consider myself as an Independent. I've seen nonsense from both political parties and I've experienced racism from those who identify as "liberal". Seems like it's two sides of the same coin.

Trolls be gone!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #159 posted 07/31/17 6:13pm

poppys

SeventeenDayze said:

jazzvirtuoso said:

SeventeenDayze said: Just out of curiosity, are you a dark skin female?

No, I'm not dark skin at all. Why do you ask??

Yeah, why?

If your last December came, what would u do?
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #160 posted 07/31/17 6:21pm

poppys

mjscarousal said:

SeventeenDayze said:

Oh, you're one of those people who thinks they can speak on behalf of the entire population. You even said yourself that you don't know what goes on here in America. You think you know better than me? Give me a break. You don't know ANYTHING about me so what can you tell me about myself? Get lost.

Ignore that poster 17, that poster is mentally unstabled, it was harassing me in my pm's and on the forum and I dont even say a damn thing to it.

To be fair, 214 does post regularly on P&R. Maybe inappropirate at times but not mentally unstable imo. Habla espanol? You can block him from messaging if you want to.

If your last December came, what would u do?
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #161 posted 07/31/17 6:24pm

mjscarousal

SeventeenDayze said:

mjscarousal said:

Thats a red flag. You also said he was a White conservative? Yea gurl let that go....next? lol See right there that is not going to work out because that is a problem. You are a democrat but you are also a very open and liberated woman. IMO, political ideologies goes far deeper than just politics. They frame how many people view culture, society and life and shouldn't be taken lightly. If he can not respect your interests and doesn't want to talk about race (especially when you are a African American woman and deal with racial situations on a daily basis) than its best you go your seperate ways. Everything is about race because everything IS about race. Like I said earlier, white people get uncomfortable talking about race with Black people because they don't like being told their racists. I have engaged in conversations with White people that objectively acknowledge their white priveledge and acknowledge the political and systemic equality against African Americans. However, white people as whole most of the time can't do this. That is why they are more comfortable playing the color blind card because its a "safe" alternative. Go with what you gut tells you and stand by your values. If it doesn't feel right than just walk away.

I consider myself as an Independent. I've seen nonsense from both political parties and I've experienced racism from those who identify as "liberal". Seems like it's two sides of the same coin.

Really? You seem to have very liberal views but okay and your right both sides can be extreme but as an independent I don't see how you could realistically date a a conserative White man that seems to have prejudice views about Black people when your Black yourself, just my thoughts.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #162 posted 07/31/17 6:26pm

mjscarousal

poppys said:

mjscarousal said:

Ignore that poster 17, that poster is mentally unstabled, it was harassing me in my pm's and on the forum and I dont even say a damn thing to it.

To be fair, 214 does post regularly on P&R. Maybe inappropirate at times but not mentally unstable imo. Habla espanol? You can block him from messaging if you want to.

So? That doesn't give him the right to harass people and be disrespectful and as a man you should not be harassing women. He is always doing this in every forum whether its non Prince music, Prince or here and I think anybody who harasses and personally attacks someone in their pms and you havent done nor said anything to them is mentally unstabled. The nut is blocked for sure.

[Edited 7/31/17 18:28pm]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #163 posted 07/31/17 6:28pm

poppys

Welcome to P&R, I think.


[Edited 7/31/17 18:30pm]

If your last December came, what would u do?
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #164 posted 07/31/17 6:41pm

SeventeenDayze

poppys said:

SeventeenDayze said:

No, I'm not dark skin at all. Why do you ask??

Yeah, why?

Why are you saying "yeah, why?" to me?!?!?!

Trolls be gone!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #165 posted 08/01/17 6:21am

poppys

poppys said:

SeventeenDayze said:

No, I'm not dark skin at all. Why do you ask??

Yeah, why?

I'm sorry SeventeenDayze. Meant to reply to jazzvirtuoso re why he asked that question.

If your last December came, what would u do?
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #166 posted 08/01/17 7:42am

peedub

avatar

mjscarousal said:

IMO, being colorblind is just as problematic as being racist (whether you are in a relationship or not). When interracial couples play that color blind card, those relationships usually do not last long because they don't confront the race/culture differences properly. Its important to acknowledge and embrace cultural and racial differences in your partner. You can't pretend your partner is not of a different race nor ignore talking about race because race/culture will eventually come up as some sort of conflict in the relationship and anyone who suggests otherwise is playing that color blind mentality. That is why it is good to communicate and gain perspectives on how your partner feels about it. I don't see how you can be friends or be in a relationship (with other races) and not talk about race/culture at all especially as an African American. I feel sometimes African Americans feel talking about race/culture makes White people uncomfortable (it does because they don't like to be told their racists because of white priveledge)...well sometimes you need to make people uncomfortable to educate others about who you are AND to be respected. For me personally, I would need to be able to go home and vent to my White boyfriend or husband about being racially profiled on the street. I would need for him to be able to show empathy/identify culturally with my feelings and the culturally understanding of racism against Blacks without being offended.

[Edited 7/29/17 1:26am]


i'm going to assume this was a response to my last reply in this thread and clarify what i meant; you seem to have mistook what i'm saying, or i wasn't clear enough...

there was no 'colorblindness' in my relationship with this woman. i knew she was black. i enjoyed and was attracted to her blackness. she was a very afro-centric woman. i forget what her job was, but it was central to african american exhibits at one of our local museums. we participated in afro centric events together. i hung out with her family. we did not avoid race, we took it as a given. the nearest we came to conflict over race was during a meal that included some kind of brain that i was staunchly not going to put in my mouth; we laughed about it.

we experienced racism together (some directed at me from black folks) and dealt with it as it happened, like 'those guys are assholes', and moved on. it was about the racist assholes, not about their race or ours.

when i said she 'didn't identify as black', i did not mean to imply 'she identified as NOT black' or that she was some sort of race deny-er. quite the opposite. she simply wasn't any sort of activist or advocate for the black race. she was just black.

i dunno. maybe we were an anomaly. i was fathered by a drunken blue collar bigot, grew up in a lower middle class punk rock atmosphere where there was a little bit of everything. she was an upper middle class college graduate daughter of high school history teachers and probably pretty sheltered. we were introduced by a mutual friend at an underground gay dance club. our first conversation was about charles dickens and we didn't break up because of anything racial.

seems there's a lot of generalization going on in this thread. i guess it's unavoidable. everybody finds their clique and stick with it. i would suggest taking a leap of faith and dealing with shit on a case by case basis. people are people. if you assume they're the embodiment of every -ism that rubs you wrong, then they will be. if you just deal with them as a person who didn't come from where you came from, everybody'd probably be a little more sympathetic to each other.

[Edited 8/1/17 7:42am]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #167 posted 08/01/17 8:26am

jjhunsecker

avatar

SeventeenDayze said:

mjscarousal said:

Thats a red flag. You also said he was a White conservative? Yea gurl let that go....next? lol See right there that is not going to work out because that is a problem. You are a democrat but you are also a very open and liberated woman. IMO, political ideologies goes far deeper than just politics. They frame how many people view culture, society and life and shouldn't be taken lightly. If he can not respect your interests and doesn't want to talk about race (especially when you are a African American woman and deal with racial situations on a daily basis) than its best you go your seperate ways. Everything is about race because everything IS about race. Like I said earlier, white people get uncomfortable talking about race with Black people because they don't like being told their racists. I have engaged in conversations with White people that objectively acknowledge their white priveledge and acknowledge the political and systemic equality against African Americans. However, white people as whole most of the time can't do this. That is why they are more comfortable playing the color blind card because its a "safe" alternative. Go with what you gut tells you and stand by your values. If it doesn't feel right than just walk away.

I consider myself as an Independent. I've seen nonsense from both political parties and I've experienced racism from those who identify as "liberal". Seems like it's two sides of the same coin.

All of the white women I dated were liberal and well educated and lived in diverse urban environments, like I did. They were usually politically savvy, and had a good grasp of the experiences that minorities specifically face. Because of my political views, and because of the things that I enjoy culturally, I couldn't imagine having ever dated a "conservative" woman (though anything is possible...),. The same way I couldn't imagine dating a highly religious woman of any race- nothing wrong with it, just not right for ME. And while I'm sure you have experienced racism from alleged "liberals", I don't think it's the same "coin" as being "conservative"

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #168 posted 08/01/17 8:54am

mjscarousal

peedub said:

mjscarousal said:

IMO, being colorblind is just as problematic as being racist (whether you are in a relationship or not). When interracial couples play that color blind card, those relationships usually do not last long because they don't confront the race/culture differences properly. Its important to acknowledge and embrace cultural and racial differences in your partner. You can't pretend your partner is not of a different race nor ignore talking about race because race/culture will eventually come up as some sort of conflict in the relationship and anyone who suggests otherwise is playing that color blind mentality. That is why it is good to communicate and gain perspectives on how your partner feels about it. I don't see how you can be friends or be in a relationship (with other races) and not talk about race/culture at all especially as an African American. I feel sometimes African Americans feel talking about race/culture makes White people uncomfortable (it does because they don't like to be told their racists because of white priveledge)...well sometimes you need to make people uncomfortable to educate others about who you are AND to be respected. For me personally, I would need to be able to go home and vent to my White boyfriend or husband about being racially profiled on the street. I would need for him to be able to show empathy/identify culturally with my feelings and the culturally understanding of racism against Blacks without being offended.

[Edited 7/29/17 1:26am]


i'm going to assume this was a response to my last reply in this thread and clarify what i meant; you seem to have mistook what i'm saying, or i wasn't clear enough...

there was no 'colorblindness' in my relationship with this woman. i knew she was black. i enjoyed and was attracted to her blackness. she was a very afro-centric woman. i forget what her job was, but it was central to african american exhibits at one of our local museums. we participated in afro centric events together. i hung out with her family. we did not avoid race, we took it as a given. the nearest we came to conflict over race was during a meal that included some kind of brain that i was staunchly not going to put in my mouth; we laughed about it.

we experienced racism together (some directed at me from black folks) and dealt with it as it happened, like 'those guys are assholes', and moved on. it was about the racist assholes, not about their race or ours.

when i said she 'didn't identify as black', i did not mean to imply 'she identified as NOT black' or that she was some sort of race deny-er. quite the opposite. she simply wasn't any sort of activist or advocate for the black race. she was just black.

i dunno. maybe we were an anomaly. i was fathered by a drunken blue collar bigot, grew up in a lower middle class punk rock atmosphere where there was a little bit of everything. she was an upper middle class college graduate daughter of high school history teachers and probably pretty sheltered. we were introduced by a mutual friend at an underground gay dance club. our first conversation was about charles dickens and we didn't break up because of anything racial.

seems there's a lot of generalization going on in this thread. i guess it's unavoidable. everybody finds their clique and stick with it. i would suggest taking a leap of faith and dealing with shit on a case by case basis. people are people. if you assume they're the embodiment of every -ism that rubs you wrong, then they will be. if you just deal with them as a person who didn't come from where you came from, everybody'd probably be a little more sympathetic to each other.

[Edited 8/1/17 7:42am]

You have exerted your white priveledge on this site and mocked posts I made speaking about Black issues (which illustrates your ignorance on the topic and real views), you don't identify at all and I stand by what I originally said. I don't need clarity about anything.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #169 posted 08/02/17 8:15pm

SeventeenDayze

jjhunsecker said:

SeventeenDayze said:

I consider myself as an Independent. I've seen nonsense from both political parties and I've experienced racism from those who identify as "liberal". Seems like it's two sides of the same coin.

All of the white women I dated were liberal and well educated and lived in diverse urban environments, like I did. They were usually politically savvy, and had a good grasp of the experiences that minorities specifically face. Because of my political views, and because of the things that I enjoy culturally, I couldn't imagine having ever dated a "conservative" woman (though anything is possible...),. The same way I couldn't imagine dating a highly religious woman of any race- nothing wrong with it, just not right for ME. And while I'm sure you have experienced racism from alleged "liberals", I don't think it's the same "coin" as being "conservative"

I dunno, I think the racism from the left and right are both awful. It just seems like black Americans have been convinced that the liberals are the good guys and the conservatives are the bad guys. I really think it just comes down to the fact that one group is more passive aggressive and the other is more "in your face". I don't know if either side has any reason to have support from the black community as a whole. It's complicated.

Trolls be gone!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #170 posted 08/02/17 8:16pm

SeventeenDayze

peedub said:

mjscarousal said:

IMO, being colorblind is just as problematic as being racist (whether you are in a relationship or not). When interracial couples play that color blind card, those relationships usually do not last long because they don't confront the race/culture differences properly. Its important to acknowledge and embrace cultural and racial differences in your partner. You can't pretend your partner is not of a different race nor ignore talking about race because race/culture will eventually come up as some sort of conflict in the relationship and anyone who suggests otherwise is playing that color blind mentality. That is why it is good to communicate and gain perspectives on how your partner feels about it. I don't see how you can be friends or be in a relationship (with other races) and not talk about race/culture at all especially as an African American. I feel sometimes African Americans feel talking about race/culture makes White people uncomfortable (it does because they don't like to be told their racists because of white priveledge)...well sometimes you need to make people uncomfortable to educate others about who you are AND to be respected. For me personally, I would need to be able to go home and vent to my White boyfriend or husband about being racially profiled on the street. I would need for him to be able to show empathy/identify culturally with my feelings and the culturally understanding of racism against Blacks without being offended.

[Edited 7/29/17 1:26am]


i'm going to assume this was a response to my last reply in this thread and clarify what i meant; you seem to have mistook what i'm saying, or i wasn't clear enough...

there was no 'colorblindness' in my relationship with this woman. i knew she was black. i enjoyed and was attracted to her blackness. she was a very afro-centric woman. i forget what her job was, but it was central to african american exhibits at one of our local museums. we participated in afro centric events together. i hung out with her family. we did not avoid race, we took it as a given. the nearest we came to conflict over race was during a meal that included some kind of brain that i was staunchly not going to put in my mouth; we laughed about it.

we experienced racism together (some directed at me from black folks) and dealt with it as it happened, like 'those guys are assholes', and moved on. it was about the racist assholes, not about their race or ours.

when i said she 'didn't identify as black', i did not mean to imply 'she identified as NOT black' or that she was some sort of race deny-er. quite the opposite. she simply wasn't any sort of activist or advocate for the black race. she was just black.

i dunno. maybe we were an anomaly. i was fathered by a drunken blue collar bigot, grew up in a lower middle class punk rock atmosphere where there was a little bit of everything. she was an upper middle class college graduate daughter of high school history teachers and probably pretty sheltered. we were introduced by a mutual friend at an underground gay dance club. our first conversation was about charles dickens and we didn't break up because of anything racial.

seems there's a lot of generalization going on in this thread. i guess it's unavoidable. everybody finds their clique and stick with it. i would suggest taking a leap of faith and dealing with shit on a case by case basis. people are people. if you assume they're the embodiment of every -ism that rubs you wrong, then they will be. if you just deal with them as a person who didn't come from where you came from, everybody'd probably be a little more sympathetic to each other.

[Edited 8/1/17 7:42am]

What kinds of racism did you both experience together??

Trolls be gone!
  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #171 posted 08/03/17 8:05am

peedub

avatar

SeventeenDayze said:

What kinds of racism did you both experience together??


mostly just passive aggressive comments as we walked down the street or from the next table at a restaurant kind of thing. a few of the bars/clubs/cafes that we frequented were in a predominantly black, predominantly poor neighborhood. that's where we heard the most of it; from black men as we walked the streets there.

there were a couple of instances where i was confronted directly. once by a white woman in a restaurant who took issue with my being with a black woman and once by a family member of hers who took issue with my presence at a family gathering.

it was just name calling really, and not very frequent or bothersome to either of us. i/we didn't dwell on it or feel that it encumbered our relationship at all.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #172 posted 08/03/17 1:55pm

jjhunsecker

avatar

SeventeenDayze said:

jjhunsecker said:

All of the white women I dated were liberal and well educated and lived in diverse urban environments, like I did. They were usually politically savvy, and had a good grasp of the experiences that minorities specifically face. Because of my political views, and because of the things that I enjoy culturally, I couldn't imagine having ever dated a "conservative" woman (though anything is possible...),. The same way I couldn't imagine dating a highly religious woman of any race- nothing wrong with it, just not right for ME. And while I'm sure you have experienced racism from alleged "liberals", I don't think it's the same "coin" as being "conservative"

I dunno, I think the racism from the left and right are both awful. It just seems like black Americans have been convinced that the liberals are the good guys and the conservatives are the bad guys. I really think it just comes down to the fact that one group is more passive aggressive and the other is more "in your face". I don't know if either side has any reason to have support from the black community as a whole. It's complicated.

It is complicated...I think what both the Left and Right dislike (and fear) is the Black underclass. However, it seems to me that the Left generally loves Black people who are very educated and culturally fluid and have achieved success (Barack and Michelle Obama and Cory Booker and Deval Patrick come to mind). The Right seems to dislike these same successful Blacks , unless they have completely distanced themselves from other Black people or have any Black consciousness or speak out against racis, (examples include Ben Carson and Clarence Thomas and Herman Cain) - That's just been my experience

[Edited 8/3/17 13:56pm]

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Reply #173 posted 08/06/17 3:56pm

214

peedub said:

mjscarousal said:

IMO, being colorblind is just as problematic as being racist (whether you are in a relationship or not). When interracial couples play that color blind card, those relationships usually do not last long because they don't confront the race/culture differences properly. Its important to acknowledge and embrace cultural and racial differences in your partner. You can't pretend your partner is not of a different race nor ignore talking about race because race/culture will eventually come up as some sort of conflict in the relationship and anyone who suggests otherwise is playing that color blind mentality. That is why it is good to communicate and gain perspectives on how your partner feels about it. I don't see how you can be friends or be in a relationship (with other races) and not talk about race/culture at all especially as an African American. I feel sometimes African Americans feel talking about race/culture makes White people uncomfortable (it does because they don't like to be told their racists because of white priveledge)...well sometimes you need to make people uncomfortable to educate others about who you are AND to be respected. For me personally, I would need to be able to go home and vent to my White boyfriend or husband about being racially profiled on the street. I would need for him to be able to show empathy/identify culturally with my feelings and the culturally understanding of racism against Blacks without being offended.

[Edited 7/29/17 1:26am]


i'm going to assume this was a response to my last reply in this thread and clarify what i meant; you seem to have mistook what i'm saying, or i wasn't clear enough...

there was no 'colorblindness' in my relationship with this woman. i knew she was black. i enjoyed and was attracted to her blackness. she was a very afro-centric woman. i forget what her job was, but it was central to african american exhibits at one of our local museums. we participated in afro centric events together. i hung out with her family. we did not avoid race, we took it as a given. the nearest we came to conflict over race was during a meal that included some kind of brain that i was staunchly not going to put in my mouth; we laughed about it.

we experienced racism together (some directed at me from black folks) and dealt with it as it happened, like 'those guys are assholes', and moved on. it was about the racist assholes, not about their race or ours.

when i said she 'didn't identify as black', i did not mean to imply 'she identified as NOT black' or that she was some sort of race deny-er. quite the opposite. she simply wasn't any sort of activist or advocate for the black race. she was just black.

i dunno. maybe we were an anomaly. i was fathered by a drunken blue collar bigot, grew up in a lower middle class punk rock atmosphere where there was a little bit of everything. she was an upper middle class college graduate daughter of high school history teachers and probably pretty sheltered. we were introduced by a mutual friend at an underground gay dance club. our first conversation was about charles dickens and we didn't break up because of anything racial.

seems there's a lot of generalization going on in this thread. i guess it's unavoidable. everybody finds their clique and stick with it. i would suggest taking a leap of faith and dealing with shit on a case by case basis. people are people. if you assume they're the embodiment of every -ism that rubs you wrong, then they will be. if you just deal with them as a person who didn't come from where you came from, everybody'd probably be a little more sympathetic to each other.

[Edited 8/1/17 7:42am]

Great post, and ohh so very true. Especially the bolded part.

  - E-mail - orgNote - Report post to moderator
Page 6 of 6 <123456
  New topic   Printable     (Log in to 'subscribe' to this topic)
« Previous topic  Next topic »
Forums > Politics & Religion > Attraction and White Supremacy?