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Reply #60 posted 04/04/17 1:35pm

maplenpg

OnlyNDaUsa said:

Horsefeathers said:

OnlyNDaUsa said: What?

at what point is a discordance with physical realites and physology become an issue for a therapist?

People have a mental discord with all sorts of physical realities all the time. I think therapy is a very personal thing that, unless a person is going to be receptive to that therapy because they know they need to change, then it is futile. I have been thinking a lot about the term trans-black - if we completely accept that a person can be trans-gender, i.e. that they believe they were born with the wrong body, then why can we not accept that someone can be trans-race? i.e. that they believe they were born in the wrong skin colour? Just throwing it out there. I think I agree with Horsefeathers - that she is a well-intentioned fraud, but, that being the case, then aren't all trans-gender people well-intentioned frauds too? We don't make a huge outcry over their choice to belong to a different gender from that in which they were born so why is this so different?

I agree that this lady has clear self-hatred and needs help. I find it really sad at the negativity that is being directed towards someone with such clear problems. What happened to compassion? Especially towards the mentally ill? Honestly, give me her anyday over a white supremist piece of scum such as Dylan Roof.

It never ceases to amaze me how cruel humans can be against fellow humans and animals, especially when in the pursuit of money and power.
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Reply #61 posted 04/04/17 1:40pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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maplenpg said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

at what point is a discordance with physical realites and physology become an issue for a therapist?

People have a mental discord with all sorts of physical realities all the time. I think therapy is a very personal thing that, unless a person is going to be receptive to that therapy because they know they need to change, then it is futile. I have been thinking a lot about the term trans-black - if we completely accept that a person can be trans-gender, i.e. that they believe they were born with the wrong body, then why can we not accept that someone can be trans-race? i.e. that they believe they were born in the wrong skin colour? Just throwing it out there. I think I agree with Horsefeathers - that she is a well-intentioned fraud, but, that being the case, then aren't all trans-gender people well-intentioned frauds too? We don't make a huge outcry over their choice to belong to a different gender from that in which they were born so why is this so different?

I agree that this lady has clear self-hatred and needs help. I find it really sad at the negativity that is being directed towards someone with such clear problems. What happened to compassion? Especially towards the mentally ill? Honestly, give me her anyday over a white supremist piece of scum such as Dylan Roof.

and for the most part, i am kind of "meh whatever" even if i do not understand it at all. We can look at a transgender person and say "but you have the other parts" but then again we have several variations of "hermaphrodites" so maybe gender is not just parts and chromosomes?

and the extension of being trans-ethic and to trans-any other thing... is where it gets more murky.

can i say i am trans-dog or platypus? and that is not meant as an insult... the question is is there a line and where is it?

Anyone for banning the AR15 must be on the side of the criminal as once banned only criminals will have them.
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Reply #62 posted 04/04/17 1:55pm

riocoolnes

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This whole trans thing is hogwash, funny to see how many people accept transgenderism but dont yet accept this just give it 1-2years
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Reply #63 posted 04/04/17 1:58pm

Horsefeathers

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There are so many reasons why the transgender comparison doesn't work for me, but even taking it at face value as being exactly the same, I guess I could understand if some biologically born women (just as an example) feel like someone is claiming something that doesn't belong to them if being a woman was a thing someone got to "choose" without ever having experienced the lifetime of baggage that went along with it. Except many, maybe most, of them have dealt with the lifetime of baggage from gender "confusion" (from a societal point of view). They didn't just decide to be (other).

She's not transitioning into anything, though. There is no trans anything. Painting her face and curling her hair and calling her black is IMO akin to putting a man in a dress and saying that makes him a woman.
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Reply #64 posted 04/04/17 2:34pm

morningsong

OnlyNDaUsa said:

maplenpg said:

People have a mental discord with all sorts of physical realities all the time. I think therapy is a very personal thing that, unless a person is going to be receptive to that therapy because they know they need to change, then it is futile. I have been thinking a lot about the term trans-black - if we completely accept that a person can be trans-gender, i.e. that they believe they were born with the wrong body, then why can we not accept that someone can be trans-race? i.e. that they believe they were born in the wrong skin colour? Just throwing it out there. I think I agree with Horsefeathers - that she is a well-intentioned fraud, but, that being the case, then aren't all trans-gender people well-intentioned frauds too? We don't make a huge outcry over their choice to belong to a different gender from that in which they were born so why is this so different?

I agree that this lady has clear self-hatred and needs help. I find it really sad at the negativity that is being directed towards someone with such clear problems. What happened to compassion? Especially towards the mentally ill? Honestly, give me her anyday over a white supremist piece of scum such as Dylan Roof.

and for the most part, i am kind of "meh whatever" even if i do not understand it at all. We can look at a transgender person and say "but you have the other parts" but then again we have several variations of "hermaphrodites" so maybe gender is not just parts and chromosomes?

and the extension of being trans-ethic and to trans-any other thing... is where it gets more murky.

can i say i am trans-dog or platypus? and that is not meant as an insult... the question is is there a line and where is it?



That's my thinking. And to me it's when you're willing to take on all the baggage. I would say she's not needed to lead 'us' to the promise land, if that's all she's in it for. But if she truly self-identifies with being black, there's a price to be paid and if she's willing then so be it.

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Reply #65 posted 04/04/17 2:49pm

2elijah

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2freaky4church1 said:

she's walking in your shoes.


^^^She could never walk in my shoes and I can't walk in hers.
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Reply #66 posted 04/04/17 2:51pm

2elijah

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jjhunsecker said:



Horsefeathers said:


I think it's great if she wants to be an ally and try to make positive changes. I think she could do that without claiming something that is not hers to claim. She can like black people, feel more comfortable, find them more relatable, immerse herself in black culture and black causes, whatever. She will never be black. To be able to just feel black is a luxury because she can also at any time decide not to be black anymore. She is a fraud even if a well intended fraud. She isn't hurting ME, but I can certainly understand why people are pissed.


I think I'm probably more amused by it than pissed. And I DO think she needs to work this out with a therapist


Exactly. It's not even about being pissed , it's more about questioning why she is not happy about being white.
[Edited 4/4/17 15:26pm]
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Reply #67 posted 04/04/17 5:04pm

Pokeno4Money

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Dasein said:

Pokeno4Money said:


Finally you write something with which I can agree! It's no secret that black is where it's at, the pendulum has swung all the way to the other side as quality of life is much better for people of color. Still though, Rachel is a damn fool for what she did. Like the interviewer said, she can fight the fight and still be white.


Please clarify this for one could read it as you suggesting that being Black is preferable to being
white, or not Black. Or, are you suggesting that quality of life has improved for Black people as
compared only to Black people in the past?


I agree, it could be interpreted either way.

To clarify, I am suggesting BOTH. Of course quality of life is better for African Americans today than it was 40 or more years ago. And yes, people of color have a much better quality of life than those of other races. Now before you jump all over me, I am NOT talking about the entire African American population compared to the entire White/Asian/Latino etc population. What I'm talking about is that if you have an African American side by side with people of other races, and if they all have the same education, and if they all earn the same income, and if they all live in similar housing and drive similar cars etc, it's the African American that will likely have the better life. There's a reason why so many whites prefer to be with blacks (ie: the entire Kardashian family) or openly state they want to be black (http://ohnotheydidnt.live...81372.html)


How often do you hear an African American state they wish they were white? Me, I've never heard it.

"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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Reply #68 posted 04/05/17 12:00am

free2bfreeda

i'm kind of looking at this on a micro level.

imo her wishing to identify as black and living so is not anymore an example of self hatred than a black female straightening her hair to feel more herself.

whilst the black female cannot pretend to be white. rachel dolezal can pretend to be black. however the point i am making is there is an issue with black females who choose to deny their true physiological makeup by pressing, or perming the hair. imo straightening the hair is as self denigrating as what rachel d has been doing to her true self.

now we can argue back and forth on this issue. however choosing to agree to disagree will be my stance.

no i don't agree with r.d. leading people on falsely as to her true self. that was wrong.

but how she chooses to display her self on the surface, once again is no different than me displaying a hatred of the texture of my hair by straightening it

if i did so i'd feel i was doing it for a hightened sense self approval and hoping for approval within this society.

until we black women can accept our total selves, then one should choose not to condemn this woman.

actually i kind of feel sorry for her.

“Transracial is a term that has long since been defined as the adoption of a child that is of a different race than the adoptive parents,” : https://thinkprogress.org...fb6e18544a
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Reply #69 posted 04/05/17 2:54am

2elijah

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jjhunsecker said:



2elijah said:


Horsefeathers said:
Yeah, that's great and all, but she could easily wake up tomorrow morning and decide that being black is just too hard and decide not to be black anymore which seems kind of the opposite of a genuine black experience. I so don't buy the comparisons to transgender issues.

She has self-hatred issues. Like you said, one day she could wake up and decide to be White again. I'm not buying her bs.


For whatever reason, she felt more comfortable as a part of Black "culture" than she did with her own background. Keith Richards once said the same thing- that he feels more comfortable with Black people than with Whites- but he never CLAIMED to BE BLACK himself ! Who knows what's in Rachel's head- perhaps a therapist could find out for her


Exactly. It's like the work Jane Elliot and Tim Wise are doing. They are well aware of the racial problems of this society, but at least they don't deny their own racial identity, by their awareness of those issues and educating others about it.

I'm just not buying the Ben Carson and Juan Williams type, kumbaya koolaid bs about it. I will see race relations improving more for Blacks in this society, when unarmed, innocent Black men and women, stop getting shot or killed by bad cops, not assumed as criminals for wearing a hoodie or going into a store and not being racially profiled as suspected thieves, etc., These are still issues many Blacks are experiencing on a daily basis, and they can't just wake up one day, and put on makeup to hide their racial identity, just to get a pass for better treatment. Those ills still exists for many within the Black community, no matter how educated or financially successful you are. That's the reality, but it's not surprising that some outside the Black community, will not understand those harsh truths, because those harsh truths, are not part of their reality.

When those situations improves/stops, as far as race relations, then society can tell me life is more than 'better', for African Americans, than it is for others. Rachel portraying herself as a Black woman, does not help change any of those realities or improves race relations in this society. The only thing that she can do to contribute to changing those types of ills and changing minds, is by going into white communities, and educating members of that community, about the effects of white supremacy teachings/beliefs, and the harm and damage it has and can cause to race relations, within our society. I would respect her more just for that, rather than her denying her racial identity, because all that denial does is displays self hatred. How can others love you if you don't accept or love who you are?
[Edited 4/5/17 19:30pm]
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Reply #70 posted 04/05/17 4:37am

E319

riocoolnes said:

This whole trans thing is hogwash, funny to see how many people accept transgenderism but dont yet accept this just give it 1-2years


Totally agree...



A white person claiming they are black is completely ridiculous and wrong... But nowhere near as ridiculous as a man thinking they can change themselves into a woman and vice/versa. No matter how many operations Bruce Jenner or any other guy has, he will never be anything other than a man who has mutilated his body, and vice-versa. Sorry folks, but that's the damn truth.



I do find all of this humorous in a perverse way.... It's like... Sure, you want to be okay with woman turning into men and men turning into women... You wanna say that's okay, then prepare for being okay with white people transitioning to black and vice versa... Like RioCoolness said, that WILL be a thing very soon... And prepare yourselves for people transitioning into animals and into pets. Yes, it sounds absolutely ridiculous, but once you accept that men and women can change sex if they "feel" a certain way, I promise you down the line, Animal lovers are gonna feel they can relate more to the animal kingdom... To their dogs and cats.... They are gonna wanna be somebody's pet.... Oh yeah, laugh all you want, I agree, it's absolutely stupid as shit... But all you people that wanna live in a world that accepts trans-gender, you are gonna have to accept a lot more than that.... Where do you draw the line if you are gonna allow people to change into whatever they feel inside? Who are you to tell someone they are wrong for feeling like a dog or a monkey???? Where does it end? But many people want to live in a world where I gotta turn on my tv and hear some moron lie to me about how beautiful Bruce Jenner looks in his dress (vomit!!!!).

[Edited 4/5/17 4:37am]

[Edited 4/5/17 4:38am]

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Reply #71 posted 04/05/17 6:03am

Horsefeathers

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I don't care what anyone wants to call themselves. Wanna be a dog? Woof woof, motherfucker. Do you.

(Sorry, was watching some Samuel Jackson stuff).

I don't want to legislate away Rachel Whatsername's ability to call herself black. Therein lies one major difference to me between transgender and transracial. I'm also not sure if she is under constant threat of violence for transitioning (and I'm using that term loosely since there is no transition) from white to black. She may. But nobody has to be ok with anything and anybody can think anything they want is yucky. She still is not transitioning into anything and therefore it is not the same no matter how many ways people try to pound that square peg into that round hole.

I don't even feel that strongly about her beyond a pretty solid eye roll and that's because her position in life totally contradicts itself. She is a walking contradiction. I probably feel more strongly about arguments that _____ is exactly the same as _____. I think it's lazy. But, no, I'm not suggesting anyone be ok with anything beyond live and let live.
Murica: at least it's not Sudan.
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Reply #72 posted 04/05/17 10:08am

Dasein

Pokeno4Money said:

Dasein said:


Please clarify this for one could read it as you suggesting that being Black is preferable to being
white, or not Black. Or, are you suggesting that quality of life has improved for Black people as
compared only to Black people in the past?


What I'm talking about is that if you have an African American side by side with people of other races, and if they all have the same education, and if they all earn the same income, and if they all live in similar housing and drive similar cars etc, it's the African American that will likely have the better life.


On what research/findings do you base this on?

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Reply #73 posted 04/05/17 11:15am

Horsefeathers

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Well, since success is often conflated with morality and intelligence, that means that black people are inherently more intelligent and moral. In addition to being inherently more violent. This social pigeonholing stuff is confusing.
Murica: at least it's not Sudan.
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Reply #74 posted 04/05/17 1:59pm

RodeoSchro

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Horsefeathers said:

Well, since success is often conflated with morality and intelligence, that means that black people are inherently more intelligent and moral. In addition to being inherently more violent. This social pigeonholing stuff is confusing.



These peeps be trippin'.

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Reply #75 posted 04/05/17 2:30pm

purplepoppy

Just say you met her randomly before she got outed and she presented herself as black even though you had prior knowledge that she wasn't. Tweet-Tweet. Not trustworthy. Bad actress at best. It was pointed out that there are white people who work for the NAACP. The deception is on her.

Brand new boogie without the hero.
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Reply #76 posted 04/05/17 4:06pm

free2bfreeda

maybe rachel is working on a screen play.

there was a film back n a day called 'black like me' by

John Howard Griffin.jpg

^^^ John Howard Griffin < read about J H Griffin here

it was a strange take on being black from a white perspective. Griffin actually colored his skin to experience being black.

Black Like Me (1964) is an American drama film based on the book Black Like Me by John Howard Griffin, who passed as an African-American man for six weeks in 1959 in the Deep South, to report on life in the segregated society from the other side of the color line. The screen play was co-written (with Gerda Lerner) and the film was directed by Carl Lerner. The film stars James Whitmore, Sorrell Booke, and Roscoe Lee Brown

Plot

John Finley Horton (James Whitmore) is a white journalist who artificially darkens his skin and passes for a black man in the deep South, from New Orleans to Atlanta, where he encounters racism from both white and black people.

i feel to continue to villify r dolezal rather than try to understand her is kinda unfair.

“Transracial is a term that has long since been defined as the adoption of a child that is of a different race than the adoptive parents,” : https://thinkprogress.org...fb6e18544a
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Reply #77 posted 04/05/17 4:07pm

RodeoSchro

avatar

free2bfreeda said:

maybe rachel is working on a screen play.

there was a film back n a day called 'black like me' by

John Howard Griffin.jpg

^^^ John Howard Griffin < read about J H Griffin here

it was a strange take on being black from a white perspective. Griffin actually colored his skin to experience being black.

Black Like Me (1964) is an American drama film based on the book Black Like Me by John Howard Griffin, who passed as an African-American man for six weeks in 1959 in the Deep South, to report on life in the segregated society from the other side of the color line. The screen play was co-written (with Gerda Lerner) and the film was directed by Carl Lerner. The film stars James Whitmore, Sorrell Booke, and Roscoe Lee Brown

Plot

John Finley Horton (James Whitmore) is a white journalist who artificially darkens his skin and passes for a black man in the deep South, from New Orleans to Atlanta, where he encounters racism from both white and black people.

i feel to continue to villify r dolezal rather than try to understand her is kinda unfair.



Couldn't agree more! highfive

Second Funkiest White Man in America

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Reply #78 posted 04/05/17 4:42pm

Pokeno4Money

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free2bfreeda said:

i feel to continue to villify r dolezal rather than try to understand her is kinda unfair.


Most people realize she's likely mentally ill, and therefore feel sorry for her. If a 5'4" dude walked around telling people he's 7'2" how do you think he'd be received? It's no different with Rachel.

In fact, it's no different than this:

"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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Reply #79 posted 04/05/17 5:00pm

Horsefeathers

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Meh. I am not interested in diagnosing mental illness. Maybe she is or maybe she isn't. I don't believe every questionable action is an inherent display of mental illness.

I'm not making any judgments about her intentions, though. I think it's entirely possible and maybe even probable that she means well. I still also believe it's possible to mean well and be wrong.
Murica: at least it's not Sudan.
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Reply #80 posted 04/06/17 1:57am

2elijah

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purplepoppy said:

Just say you met her randomly before she got outed and she presented herself as black even though you had prior knowledge that she wasn't. Tweet-Tweet. Not trustworthy. Bad actress at best. It was pointed out that there are white people who work for the NAACP. The deception is on her.


Exactly. It's a deception either way, and quite frankly, any person with 'common sense' knows it is not cruel or unusual, for anyone to question or to be curious, about why Rachel chooses to not accept her true, racial identity and claim another. I think anyone who has an issue with people having an opinion or questioning Rachel's claim of being Black, should question thenselves about why they are investing so much time worrying about others' opinions on it. popcorn
[Edited 4/6/17 4:43am]
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Reply #81 posted 04/06/17 4:11am

Pokeno4Money

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Horsefeathers said:

Meh. I am not interested in diagnosing mental illness. Maybe she is or maybe she isn't. I don't believe every questionable action is an inherent display of mental illness. I'm not making any judgments about her intentions, though. I think it's entirely possible and maybe even probable that she means well. I still also believe it's possible to mean well and be wrong.


Yeah I don't think she had bad intentions, she truly believes she's black. It's not her fault the damn fools believed her, and she continues to make bank from their stupidity.

Of course if the situation was reversed and it was a black woman proclaiming her whiteness, the usual suspects would be all over her ... "How can you turn your back on your heritage. How can you deny who you are. You're a traitor to your own people, get the hell outta here. Blah blah blah."







[Edited 4/6/17 4:12am]

"As a team, we have chosen to stand and interlock arms in unity. We honor those who have fought for the freedom we cherish. And we stand to ensure the riches and freedom and the security of justice for all people." --- Doug Baldwin
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Reply #82 posted 04/06/17 4:53am

2elijah

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Hey 2freak, Tim Wise wrote an interesting piece on this topic 2 years ago.


http://www.timwise.org/20...-identity/


Mimicry is Not Solidarity: Of Allies, Rachel Dolezal and the Creation of Antiracist White Identity
Posted on June 14, 2015

In a country where being black increases your likelihood of being unemployed, poor, rejected for a bank loan, suspected of wrongdoing and profiled as a criminal, being arrested or even shot by police, the mind boggles at the decision of Rachel Dolezal some years ago to begin posing as an African American woman. Yes perhaps blackness helps when you’re looking for a job in an Africana Studies department, selling your own African American portraiture art, or hoping to head up the local NAACP branch—all of which appear to have been the case for Dolezal—but generally speaking, adopting blackness as one’s personal identity and as a substitute for one’s actual whiteness is not exactly the path of least resistance in America.

And so, cognizant of the rarity with which white folks have tried to pass as black over the years—and in all likelihood for the above-mentioned reasons, among others—many have chimed in as to the personal, familial and even psychological issues that may lie at the heart of her deceptions. Not possessing a background in psychology I am loathe to spend too much time there, but having said that, it strikes me that there is an important, largely overlooked, and quite likely explanation for Dolezal’s duplicity, and one the importance of which goes well beyond her and whatever deep-seated emotional baggage may have contributed to her actions. Indeed, it has real implications for white people seeking to work in solidarity with people of color, whether in the BlackLivesMatter movement, Moral Mondays in North Carolina, or any other component of the modern civil rights and antiracism struggle.

It is one I hadn’t really thought much about until I read something yesterday, a comment from one of her brothers (one of the actual black ones, adopted by her parents), to the effect that while Dolezal had been a graduate student at Howard, she felt as though she “hadn’t been treated very well,” at least in part because she was never fully accepted—she the white girl from Montana who paints black life onto canvas, and quite well at that—at this venerable and unapologetically black institution.

And what does a nice white girl from Montana do when the black folks don’t welcome her with open arms? Well, while I (in an earlier iteration of this essay) gave her credit for at least not chalking it up to “reverse racism” (as many a white person might), it appears I spoke too soon and was far too ecumenical. Turns out, she did just that: filing suit against Howard for “reverse discrimination,” claiming that her whiteness is what prevented her from obtaining a faculty gig and caused her art not to be as prominently displayed as that of black artists on campus. While the suit was dismissed and she was forced to pay the school’s legal fees, the incident provides some insight into the motives behind her subsequent journey into blackness. At worst, it means her transition to black identity was a sick kind of payback—as in, “I’ll show them. If they won’t treat me right as a white woman, I’ll just become a black woman”—in which case it was all about her. At best, she had a change of heart and decided she wanted to work as an ally but still felt she could never be really accepted as a white woman in the battle, or at the very least didn’t want to take the time and pay the dues needed to earn it.

At the very least, and even in the light most favorable to Dolezal then, she apparently discovered at Howard (and much to her shock and dismay) that it isn’t enough to love black culture and profess one’s solidarity with the movement for black equality; that indeed, black folks don’t automatically trust us just because we say we’re down; that proving oneself takes time, and that the process is messy as hell, and filled with wrong turns and mistakes and betrayals and apologies and a healthy dose of pain. And I suspect she didn’t have the patience for the messiness, but armed with righteous indignation at the society around her, and perhaps the one in which she had been raised out west, she opted to cut out the middle man. To hell with white allyship (or as my friends and colleagues Lisa Albrecht and Jesse Villalobos are calling it, “followership”), to hell with working with others; rather, she opted to simply become black, to speak for and as those others. It was her way of obtaining the authenticity to which she perhaps felt entitled just because of her sensibilities, and which she felt had been denied her by those whose approval she sought. It is a more extreme version, to be sure, but of a piece with those white folks who think dabbling in eastern religion makes us more spiritual, that donning beads and dream catchers in our rear-view mirrors makes us indigenous, or that blaring the loudest, brashest hip-hop beats in our stale suburbs renders us hard and street and real, in some way that isn’t possible within the confines of white normativity.



(Edited for compliance. Click on link to read the rest of the article.)
[Edited 4/6/17 5:03am]
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Reply #83 posted 04/06/17 5:24am

Horsefeathers

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Pokeno4Money said:



Horsefeathers said:


Meh. I am not interested in diagnosing mental illness. Maybe she is or maybe she isn't. I don't believe every questionable action is an inherent display of mental illness. I'm not making any judgments about her intentions, though. I think it's entirely possible and maybe even probable that she means well. I still also believe it's possible to mean well and be wrong.


Yeah I don't think she had bad intentions, she truly believes she's black. It's not her fault the damn fools believed her, and she continues to make bank from their stupidity.

Of course if the situation was reversed and it was a black woman proclaiming her whiteness, the usual suspects would be all over her ... "How can you turn your back on your heritage. How can you deny who you are. You're a traitor to your own people, get the hell outta here. Blah blah blah."







[Edited 4/6/17 4:12am]



It looks like people are doing that now perhaps using different language, but same message-- claims that she hates herself and her race. That would make their views pretty consistent, actually.
[Edited 4/6/17 5:27am]
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Reply #84 posted 04/06/17 5:25am

2elijah

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jjhunsecker said:



Horsefeathers said:


I think it's great if she wants to be an ally and try to make positive changes. I think she could do that without claiming something that is not hers to claim. She can like black people, feel more comfortable, find them more relatable, immerse herself in black culture and black causes, whatever. She will never be black. To be able to just feel black is a luxury because she can also at any time decide not to be black anymore. She is a fraud even if a well intended fraud. She isn't hurting ME, but I can certainly understand why people are pissed.


I think I'm probably more amused by it than pissed. And I DO think she needs to work this out with a therapist



JJ, Do you remember this interview on Oprah about the real-life experience, about the white guy who took some life-threatening pills, to see what it was like to be Black, and after the experiment and experience, he was so traumatized by it, he sought therapy? Everything this guy experienced during that experiment, were real-life situations, that many Blacks have dealt with, at some point in their lives, and still in present day. I can literally say, that guy walked in the shoes of Blacks for the limited time he was part of that experiment.

Now I can accept and respect this guy's reason for doing that as genuine, but compared to Rachel's reasons, I can't see her claim or reason to be as genuine as his, but good luck to her.



https://www.google.com/am...lomon/amp/

Joshua Solomon (c. 1974- ) was a White American university student who made himself look Black in 1994 to see what it would be like. He was going to do it for about four months and visit different parts of the country. He only lasted a week.

We know of at least three other “Black like me” cases:

1947: Ray Sprigle
1959: John Howard Griffin
1969: Grace Halsell


Griffin is the famous one: he wrote “Black Like Me” (1960). When Solomon read his book in high school he knew right then that he wanted to try it himself.

Solomon grew up in Silver Spring, Maryland and had plenty of Black friends:

Whenever something went down, they always said it was racism. Education, jobs, crime, poverty, social misunderstandings – they blamed everything on color. “It’s a white man’s world,” they would say.
But he did not believe his black friends:

… secretly, inside, I’d always felt that many black people used racism as a crutch, an excuse. Couldn’t they just shrug off the rankings of ignorant people?
He did not believe Langston Hughes or Cornel West either.

So he went to a doctor who gave him pills to turn his white skin brown. The doctor warned him that it could lead to liver damage.

Solomon shaved the hair off his head but dressed the same, acted the same, talked the same. He had the same money and education. It was just his brown skin and bald head that were different (pictured above).

After about a month of taking pills his skin was dark enough for the doorman at his brother’s place in Baltimore to be rude and suspicious.

He travelled to Washington, DC, Atlanta and, like Griffin, Gainesville, Georgia.

As a White man he looks and smiles at White people and they smile back. But as a Black man whites look away, lock their doors, assume he is dangerous or up to no good.

Shopping while Black: One time a white person did not look away:

I went to a nearby drugstore, a white employee followed me around the store. At the drink refrigerator, I turned suddenly and stared right at her, letting her know that I knew what she was doing – shadowing me as if I were a potential thief. I’d hoped to embarrass her, but she didn’t flinch. She stared right back, hands on her hips.
The police would stop him even though he was just walking down the street minding his own business.

Restaurants would tell him they were full, even when they were not, restaurants where nearly everyone sitting down was – White.

White respect and friendliness that he took for granted was gone. Instead Whites regarded him with disdain, even fear. He met a homeless White man, blond hair, blue eyes, who had almost nothing in this world: even he looked down on Blacks!

By his second day in Gainesville he was in tears. It was just too much! He went back home to let the pills wear off and turn white again. *Clicks heels three times.*

[Edited 4/6/17 5:59am]
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Reply #85 posted 04/06/17 6:07am

2elijah

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[Edited 4/6/17 6:10am]
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Reply #86 posted 04/06/17 7:09am

free2bfreeda

i'm still searching my feelings about r. dolezal. so i decided to look at her positive contributions. here are a few selections of her artworks i've chosen. if you wish to view more just click on the link. imo her artwork is a view of her inner passion as a person trying to fit into her personal perspectives.

: http://racheldolezal.blogspot.com/

Rachel Dolezal artworks

ass22.jpgPariah+Poster+proof-1.jpg7_Dolezal_R.JPGsoulprot.JPGIMG_4121.jpg59630013.JPG

see more: http://racheldolezal.blogspot.com/

[Edited 4/6/17 7:11am]

“Transracial is a term that has long since been defined as the adoption of a child that is of a different race than the adoptive parents,” : https://thinkprogress.org...fb6e18544a
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Reply #87 posted 04/06/17 7:48am

Horsefeathers

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Just to be clear for myself, I'm not dismissing any good she's done or even her possible good intentions. I'm also not trying to convince anyone to feel any certain way about her. My main point is that I get not taking her at face value and looking at her as a fraud.
Murica: at least it's not Sudan.
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Reply #88 posted 04/06/17 7:52am

2elijah

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Horsefeathers said:

Just to be clear for myself, I'm not dismissing any good she's done or even her possible good intentions. I'm also not trying to convince anyone to feel any certain way about her. My main point is that I get not taking her at face value and looking at her as a fraud.

And it's perfectly fine for you to feel that way. No one is required to have the same views on this.
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Reply #89 posted 04/06/17 8:01am

free2bfreeda

Horsefeathers said:

Just to be clear for myself, I'm not dismissing any good she's done or even her possible good intentions. I'm also not trying to convince anyone to feel any certain way about her. My main point is that I get not taking her at face value and looking at her as a fraud.

in reality (for me) i'm trying to convince myself if she is or is not a "fraud." at the point the court is still deliberating from my pov.

however he is an interesting tidbit i found:

41VZxkS6UfL._AC_UL160_.jpg

This little book is a collectible commemorative of a fascinating person. It is an unauthorized biography. Obviously, it does not cover every single aspect of her life but does highlight some important aspects of her existence. This book is designed to be a collectible coffee table display book. We are confident that you will enjoy I Choose Black The Unauthorized Biography of 50 things to Love about Rachel Dolezal and that it will be a collectible that you will want to keep forever!

: https://www.amazon.com/Ch...op?ie=UTF8

dove

like i mentioned, i'm still weighing in on the fraudulent aspects of one rachel dolezal.

[Edited 4/6/17 8:28am]

“Transracial is a term that has long since been defined as the adoption of a child that is of a different race than the adoptive parents,” : https://thinkprogress.org...fb6e18544a
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