LMAO, carry on!

Please take several seats.

Oh, and wait. You're "laughing your ass off?"

Interesting.

RodeoSchro said:

LMAO, carry on!

It ebbs and it flows continuously.

morningsong said:

RodeoSchro said:

LMAO, carry on!

It ebbs and it flows continuously.

Looks more to me like its level is rising and the climate changing due to some form of global warming.

It's hard to find anybody not bashing Christianity in some (passive) aggressive way and not claiming to be an "atheist" or "agnostic".

Now, let "the choir" sang...

V10LETBLUES said:

With newsflashes and all. I blame toejam.

i do not intend to bash christianity. i am a unitarian myself. i think there are many paths to one destination and many forms and faces of God.

imo, God is real, however organized religion has historically held a great deal of political power.

the agenda of politics does not always arise from spiritual concerns.

and because sometimes tax-free religious organizations such as the vatican are able to influence and somewhat control enactment of legislation addressing womens' access to birth control in america even though ostensibly 'not involved in politics', i further submit that organized religions must be carefully scrutinized.

the crusades, the *holy* inquisition, the betrayal of the templars, these and other examples of misdeeds remind us of the need for constant vigilance against simply accepting what the church/religious figure of our choice tells us without searching our own hearts first.

therefore it is critical that we understand the difference between God, organized religion and the place from which our belief systems and social practices arise, if only to gain understanding of what we all have in common

the above constitutes 100% only my opinion, and i believe in UFOs so feel free to take the above with a grain of anti-radiation meds.

What Jesus, Horus And Many Other Gods Had In Common

[Edited 7/3/12 16:54pm]

double post oopsies :

[Edited 7/3/12 16:54pm]

Tremolina said:

morningsong said:

It ebbs and it flows continuously.

Looks more to me like its level is rising and the climate changing due to some form of global warming.

It's hard to find anybody not bashing Christianity in some (passive) aggressive way and not claiming to be an "atheist" or "agnostic".

Now, let "the choir" sang...

Just how is claiming to be, or being 'atheist' or 'agnostic,' bashing Christianity?!!!!

If you don't believe that makes you a basher?

Get real.

SUPRMAN said:

Tremolina said:

Looks more to me like its level is rising and the climate changing due to some form of global warming.

It's hard to find anybody not bashing Christianity in some (passive) aggressive way and not claiming to be an "atheist" or "agnostic".

Now, let "the choir" sang...

Just how is claiming to be, or being 'atheist' or 'agnostic,' bashing Christianity?!!!!

If you don't believe that makes you a basher?

Get real.

I agree with Tremolia, because folks here who are agnostic or atheist conctantly post on how the Christian belief system is stupid or destroying humanity as a whole.

Its not enough that they want people to respect their beliefs but also want Christians to prove there is a God then claim Christians are foolish for believing what they believe.

That is bashing.

V10LETBLUES said:

With newsflashes and all. I blame toejam.

Too right - but seriously...

To discuss our faith, to have it challenged even if frequently it is arguably a troll attack (and I do not think toejam is ever a troll) is good. If we cannot question and defend our faith then we have nothing. If we cannot listen and respond to potentially (and sometime actually) legitimate criticisms of our Churches and our beliefs then our faith is blind and unchangeable. This does not mean we will ever convince others that we are correct but, God willing, we can help. I trust in God that I can learn from people of all faiths (including atheists) how to be a better Christian and follower of Jesus. We are all God's Children, all striving to better ourselves (most of the time) and the Holy Spirit works on us all. My Church has had to learn from a long list of complaints and still does, my faith needs to be worked on and challenged on a daily basis. I hope that my demonstrations of faith are an aid to the faith of others. If that means I have to fight the "war on Christianity" so be it.

And why is everything a "war on ..."? Is this Fox?

IanRG said:

V10LETBLUES said:

With newsflashes and all. I blame toejam.

Too right - but seriously...

To discuss our faith, to have it challenged even if frequently it is arguably a troll attack (and I do not think toejam is ever a troll) is good. If we cannot question and defend our faith then we have nothing. If we cannot listen and respond to potentially (and sometime actually) legitimate criticisms of our Churches and our beliefs then our faith is blind and unchangeable. This does not mean we will ever convince others that we are correct but, God willing, we can help. I trust in God that I can learn from people of all faiths (including atheists) how to be a better Christian and follower of Jesus. We are all God's Children, all striving to better ourselves (most of the time) and the Holy Spirit works on us all. My Church has had to learn from a long list of complaints and still does, my faith needs to be worked on and challenged on a daily basis. I hope that my demonstrations of faith are an aid to the faith of others. If that means I have to fight the "war on Christianity" so be it.

And why is everything a "war on ..."? Is this Fox?

Your posts are an inspiration.. I get depressed looking at some of these posts and I feel as if hope itself has become such a fleeting thing that people no longer want to believe in something that isn't automatic or proven.

So many young people seem so .... angry.

I am glad you keep on. I am learned a while ago from people who weren't Christians in a traditional sense... more spiritual because I became tired of Chritians bickering among themselves as well.

I got tired... maybe in time I will post again on a regular to help myself see where I can strenghten my own walk in Christ and be a better help to others along the way. Thank you.

*** actually other Christians on here as well... it reminds me to begin to read and study my bible again. Its been a while.

[Edited 7/3/12 18:06pm]

paintedlady said:

IanRG said:

Too right - but seriously...

To discuss our faith, to have it challenged even if frequently it is arguably a troll attack (and I do not think toejam is ever a troll) is good. If we cannot question and defend our faith then we have nothing. If we cannot listen and respond to potentially (and sometime actually) legitimate criticisms of our Churches and our beliefs then our faith is blind and unchangeable. This does not mean we will ever convince others that we are correct but, God willing, we can help. I trust in God that I can learn from people of all faiths (including atheists) how to be a better Christian and follower of Jesus. We are all God's Children, all striving to better ourselves (most of the time) and the Holy Spirit works on us all. My Church has had to learn from a long list of complaints and still does, my faith needs to be worked on and challenged on a daily basis. I hope that my demonstrations of faith are an aid to the faith of others. If that means I have to fight the "war on Christianity" so be it.

And why is everything a "war on ..."? Is this Fox?

So many young people seem so .... angry.

I can't speak for all, but I know that I'm not angry. I'm confused.

paintedlady said:

SUPRMAN said:

Just how is claiming to be, or being 'atheist' or 'agnostic,' bashing Christianity?!!!!

If you don't believe that makes you a basher?

Get real.

I agree with Tremolia, because folks here who are agnostic or atheist conctantly post on how the Christian belief system is stupid or destroying humanity as a whole.

Its not enough that they want people to respect their beliefs but also want Christians to prove there is a God then claim Christians are foolish for believing what they believe.

That is bashing.

It's war! They've declared war on us!

Only problem is, we don't care. LOL.

paintedlady said:

IanRG said:

Too right - but seriously...

To discuss our faith, to have it challenged even if frequently it is arguably a troll attack (and I do not think toejam is ever a troll) is good. If we cannot question and defend our faith then we have nothing. If we cannot listen and respond to potentially (and sometime actually) legitimate criticisms of our Churches and our beliefs then our faith is blind and unchangeable. This does not mean we will ever convince others that we are correct but, God willing, we can help. I trust in God that I can learn from people of all faiths (including atheists) how to be a better Christian and follower of Jesus. We are all God's Children, all striving to better ourselves (most of the time) and the Holy Spirit works on us all. My Church has had to learn from a long list of complaints and still does, my faith needs to be worked on and challenged on a daily basis. I hope that my demonstrations of faith are an aid to the faith of others. If that means I have to fight the "war on Christianity" so be it.

And why is everything a "war on ..."? Is this Fox?

Your posts are an inspiration.. I get depressed looking at some of these posts and I feel as if hope itself has become such a fleeting thing that people no longer want to believe in something that isn't automatic or proven.

So many young people seem so .... angry.

I am glad you keep on. I am learned a while ago from people who weren't Christians in a traditional sense... more spiritual because I became tired of Chritians bickering among themselves as well.

I got tired... maybe in time I will post again on a regular to help myself see where I can strenghten my own walk in Christ and be a better help to others along the way. Thank you.

*** actually other Christians on here as well... it reminds me to begin to read and study my bible again. Its been a while.

[Edited 7/3/12 18:06pm]

Thanks for this.

I once was one of those angry young people and even an atheist. I acted much as toejam acts today but through my wife I had my "road to Damacus" and realised my anger was just me rejecting the Holy Spirit and the challenges to my lack of faith that God was putting before me. It is common for the young to turn away from faith as they develop from childhood belief to, hopefully, adult faith. This is natural and many will come back if we are patient and seek to help them where we can.

V10LETBLUES said:

With newsflashes and all. I blame toejam.

IanRG said:

I once was one of those angry young people and even an atheist. I acted much as toejam acts today but through my wife I had my "road to Damacus" and realised my anger was just me rejecting the Holy Spirit and the challenges to my lack of faith that God was putting before me.

Well, I disagree here. We are not similar in this regard. I have never been angry at God, even as a former believer. God to me was the definition of "good", so to be angry at him was never even felt. My rejection of him was never out of anger, but a lack of convincing evidence for his existence. As a believer I was always willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he "knew more than I" or whatever when I saw bad things happening etc. But eventually that idea of "This is simply part of God's plan" became "Maybe this is simply part of God's plan" became "What reason do I have to believe this is part of God's plan?" to finally "What reason do I have to believe God exists?", and from there, it all fell apart (it took me until my late 20s to finally embrace Atheism/Agnosticism).

It is common for the young to turn away from faith as they develop from childhood belief to, hopefully, adult faith. This is natural and many will come back if we are patient and seek to help them where we can.

Perhaps. But the same can be said on the other foot. There appears to be more and more people coming out of the closet as either Atheists or Agnostics at all age levels than (seemingly) than ever before. Some go back, but they are outnumbered by the ones who leave for good. Not that numbers are any indication of truth, obviously.

XxAxX said:

i do not intend to bash christianity. i am a unitarian myself. i think there are many paths to one destination and many forms and faces of God.

imo, God is real, however organized religion has historically held a great deal of political power.

the agenda of politics does not always arise from spiritual concerns.

and because sometimes tax-free religious organizations such as the vatican are able to influence and somewhat control enactment of legislation addressing womens' access to birth control in america even though ostensibly 'not involved in politics', i further submit that organized religions must be carefully scrutinized.

the crusades, the *holy* inquisition, the betrayal of the templars, these and other examples of misdeeds remind us of the need for constant vigilance against simply accepting what the church/religious figure of our choice tells us without searching our own hearts first.

therefore it is critical that we understand the difference between God, organized religion and the place from which our belief systems and social practices arise, if only to gain understanding of what we all have in common

the above constitutes 100% only my opinion, and i believe in UFOs so feel free to take the above with a grain of anti-radiation meds.

[Edited 7/3/12 16:54pm]

I agree...

The video clip provided is quite a testament, many things I never knew about till my viewing of it. It seems that ( imo ) the venom of atheism is dircted soley against Christianity becuase its the dominant faith, I know Islam has its detractors and they are vocal but the threat of violence - Theo Van Gogh, Salman Rushdie - keeps most at bay.

is that Mark E. Smith?

I hear you telephone thing

foal30 said:

is that Mark E. Smith?

I hear you telephone thing

Indeed it is.

smoothcriminal12 said:

paintedlady said:

So many young people seem so .... angry.

I can't speak for all, but I know that I'm not angry. I'm confused.

I know many young people who are finding their way in life/sexuality/spirituality and it can be overwhelming. I understand. It is good to know you are not angry or hurting, so many are though.

I guess many adults/parents weren't there when they were needed, we have a lot of work to do.

babynoz said:

XxAxX said:

therefore it is critical that we understand the difference between God, organized religion and the place from which our belief systems and social practices arise, if only to gain understanding of what we all have in common

[Edited 7/3/12 16:54pm]

I agree...

me too.

toejam said:

IanRG said:

I once was one of those angry young people and even an atheist. I acted much as toejam acts today but through my wife I had my "road to Damacus" and realised my anger was just me rejecting the Holy Spirit and the challenges to my lack of faith that God was putting before me.

Well, I disagree here. We are not similar in this regard. I have never been angry at God, even as a former believer. God to me was the definition of "good", so to be angry at him was never even felt. My rejection of him was never out of anger, but a lack of convincing evidence for his existence. As a believer I was always willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he "knew more than I" or whatever when I saw bad things happening etc. But eventually that idea of "This is simply part of God's plan" became "Maybe this is simply part of God's plan" became "What reason do I have to believe this is part of God's plan?" to finally "What reason do I have to believe God exists?", and from there, it all fell apart (it took me until my late 20s to finally embrace Atheism/Agnosticism).

At the time I would have said the exact same thing as you just have.

V10LETBLUES said:

IanRG and toejam, you are among my favourite orgers here in P&R, you represent each side perfectly.

Thank you. Either that, or neither of us know when to draw a line in the sand in seemingly dead-end conversations

I can't wait for you two to do a weekly podcast together. It will be awesome. I am subscribing inadvance.

How 'bout it Ian? (no, I am not serious!)

toejam said:

V10LETBLUES said:

IanRG and toejam, you are among my favourite orgers here in P&R, you represent each side perfectly.

Thank you. Either that, or neither of us know when to draw a line in the sand in seemingly dead-end conversations

I can't wait for you two to do a weekly podcast together. It will be awesome. I am subscribing inadvance.

How 'bout it Ian? (no, I am not serious!)

I am pretty sure it is the latter

RodeoSchro said:

paintedlady said:

I agree with Tremolia, because folks here who are agnostic or atheist conctantly post on how the Christian belief system is stupid or destroying humanity as a whole.

Its not enough that they want people to respect their beliefs but also want Christians to prove there is a God then claim Christians are foolish for believing what they believe.

That is bashing.

It's war! They've declared war on us!

Only problem is, we don't care. LOL.

No, we didn't declare war, we just want to express our experiences so that we can support each other in this confusing process.

I love seeing religious nutters squirm because people are making fun of their monstrosity of a religion.

Guess what? People have been burning down homes, ravaging, raping, murdering, and taking your god right to the supreme court and beyond all in the name of protecting your right to abuse others at will. Pardon me while I piss myself in laughter. Religious folks have reaped the benefits of a bloodwar for thousands of years and on this poor wittle site the irreligious make your panties sweat like cooked spinach!

I tell ya, it's almost as if you don't believe what goes on in the world in your name. Wake up and smell the genocide.