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Thread started 05/11/11 11:00am

Beautifulstarr
123

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Will America Become A Muslim Nation?

Proposal of a mosque to be built near Ground Zero of which caused public outrage. Crosses are being removed from cemeteries. Sharia laws privately embraced by judges in the judicial system. One example, a judge in New Jersey have decided that a husband did not rape his wife, and the case is being overturned. President Barack Obama's support of Islam. Here are a few links:

http://thecaucus.blogs.ny...st-speech/

http://www.ihatethemedia....im-country

http://www.cbsnews.com/83...03544.html

What do you think? Discuss your views.

[Edited 5/11/11 11:02am]

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Reply #1 posted 05/11/11 11:04am

cborgman

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no.

next question
"I am almost never wrong"
"it is hard being the smartest person in the room but it is a cross i am willing to bare."


-OnlyNDaUsa
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Reply #2 posted 05/11/11 11:08am

Musicslave

As in usurping the current Judeo-Christian based laws in this country? Hell Naw....

That whole Sharia Law crap that conservative talk radio like spew daily about AIN'T HAPPENING!

Sharia Law = Straw Man.

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Reply #3 posted 05/11/11 11:39am

cborgman

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Musicslave said:

As in usurping the current Judeo-Christian based laws in this country? Hell Naw....

That whole Sharia Law crap that conservative talk radio like spew daily about AIN'T HAPPENING!

Sharia Law = Straw Man.

nod

the right keeps inventing things to blame obama for, plying on that "he's secretly a muslim" crap

"I am almost never wrong"
"it is hard being the smartest person in the room but it is a cross i am willing to bare."


-OnlyNDaUsa
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Reply #4 posted 05/11/11 11:43am

vainandy

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This is the same tactic they have been using to stir up hatred against gay people for years. "If you tolerate them, they will take over and the whole world will turn gay". Different minority, same hate tactic.

Andy is a four letter word.
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Reply #5 posted 05/11/11 12:08pm

cborgman

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vainandy said:

This is the same tactic they have been using to stir up hatred against gay people for years. "If you tolerate them, they will take over and the whole world will turn gay". Different minority, same hate tactic.

yup

find someone to demonize and turn the public against them in angry scapegoating mode.

shades of hitler and the anti-jew propaganda

[Edited 5/16/11 8:40am]

"I am almost never wrong"
"it is hard being the smartest person in the room but it is a cross i am willing to bare."


-OnlyNDaUsa
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Reply #6 posted 05/11/11 1:05pm

HotGritz

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I higly doubt it but wouldn't rule it out. The Nazis did not always rule Germany. Cuba was not always a communist country. Ideologies pick up steam faster than we may think. All it really takes is for enough muslims to gain positions of power within the world of politics, media, education and entertainment and for more mosques to be built with an aggressive outreach program and you could very well change this nation to a muslim dominated nation. It's happened in many African countries.

p.s. edit post - In many African nations, Islam was introduced by force and you pretty much had to convert in order to avoid being exterminated. confused

[Edited 5/11/11 13:06pm]

I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE UGLY. YOU JUST HAVE BAD LUCK WHEN IT COMES TO MIRRORS AND SUNLIGHT!
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Reply #7 posted 05/11/11 7:23pm

eugny1

I worked for the Borders bookshop near ground zero that recently went out of business. People would always ask "What's going in here?"

Sometimes I'd say "Islamic cultural center" just to watch people lose their shit. lol

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Reply #8 posted 05/11/11 7:26pm

eugny1

HotGritz said:

All it really takes is for enough muslims to gain positions of power within the world of politics, [Edited 5/11/11 13:06pm]

And there you have it. In this country? Not in my lifetime, or yours or the lives of our grandchildren.

I'd say check back in 200 years, but I sincerely hold out hope that mankind will have outgrown the silliness of believing in fairly tales by then...a remote hope, I know, but still.

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Reply #9 posted 05/12/11 1:51am

deebee

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HotGritz said:

I higly doubt it but wouldn't rule it out. The Nazis did not always rule Germany. Cuba was not always a communist country. Ideologies pick up steam faster than we may think. All it really takes is for enough muslims to gain positions of power within the world of politics, media, education and entertainment and for more mosques to be built with an aggressive outreach program and you could very well change this nation to a muslim dominated nation. It's happened in many African countries.

p.s. edit post - In many African nations, Islam was introduced by force and you pretty much had to convert in order to avoid being exterminated. confused

[Edited 5/11/11 13:06pm]

Quite a lot of big 'if's in that scenario, dear; not least the idea of some kind of coordinated evangelising mission on behalf of America's Muslim population (and the shady, evangelising, politically-influential force commonly known as the Christian Right stepping aside to make way for the newbies!). I wouldn't go getting your burqa dry-cleaned just yet....

Maybe the better question might be 'will America become a paranoid, intolerant nation?' I seem to recall that those aforementioned Nazis rode to power on the back of a host of stories about a ethnoreligious minority in their midst, secretly plotting to gain a dominant position in society, which turned people's attention away from how screwed they all were because of the recent economic crisis. The sad thing was when otherwise warmhearted, intelligent people started believing it. neutral

[Edited 5/12/11 3:27am]

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #10 posted 05/12/11 5:41am

DarlingDiana

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Musicslave said:

As in usurping the current Judeo-Christian based laws in this country? Hell Naw....

That whole Sharia Law crap that conservative talk radio like spew daily about AIN'T HAPPENING!

Sharia Law = Straw Man.

We have no Judeo-Christian laws in this country. We have secular laws. America is a secular, liberal, constitutional republican. When people talk about American becoming a muslim nation, it's like they are implying 'instead of a Christian nation'. It's not a Christian nation and thank God it's not. People should be just as worried about America becoming a Christian nation as it becoming a Muslim nation. America is suppose to be a secular nation. That's how it was founded.

So long as men desire to live together, no man may initiate the use of physical force against others.
- Ayn Rand
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Reply #11 posted 05/12/11 6:23am

Musicslave

DarlingDiana said:

Musicslave said:

As in usurping the current Judeo-Christian based laws in this country? Hell Naw....

That whole Sharia Law crap that conservative talk radio like spew daily about AIN'T HAPPENING!

Sharia Law = Straw Man.

We have no Judeo-Christian laws in this country. We have secular laws. America is a secular, liberal, constitutional republican. When people talk about American becoming a muslim nation, it's like they are implying 'instead of a Christian nation'. It's not a Christian nation and thank God it's not. People should be just as worried about America becoming a Christian nation as it becoming a Muslim nation. America is suppose to be a secular nation. That's how it was founded.

Yes, America is a secular nation. No arguement there. What I was referring to was how the vast majority of the population (although the numbers continually are decreasing) considers themselves Christian.

In fact, no Religious law should replace the Constitutional law founded.

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Reply #12 posted 05/12/11 8:56am

DarlingDiana

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Musicslave said:

DarlingDiana said:

We have no Judeo-Christian laws in this country. We have secular laws. America is a secular, liberal, constitutional republican. When people talk about American becoming a muslim nation, it's like they are implying 'instead of a Christian nation'. It's not a Christian nation and thank God it's not. People should be just as worried about America becoming a Christian nation as it becoming a Muslim nation. America is suppose to be a secular nation. That's how it was founded.

Yes, America is a secular nation. No arguement there. What I was referring to was how the vast majority of the population (although the numbers continually are decreasing) considers themselves Christian.

In fact, no Religious law should replace the Constitutional law founded.

As you said the numbers are decreasing. And they aren't changing from Christianity to another religion. They are done with religion altogether. If you look at Americans' religious affiliations, 'unaffiliated' or 'none' (which includes atheists and agnostics) is second behind Christianity. Depending on the poll the count is anywhere from 15% of the population to 37%. There are more atheists/agnostics, or people who simply don't follow a religion, than there are Jews, Muslims, Buddhists and Hindus combined! A little off topic, but I just wanted to point that out.

So long as men desire to live together, no man may initiate the use of physical force against others.
- Ayn Rand
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Reply #13 posted 05/12/11 9:59am

rudedog

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BE AFRAID!! THE MOOSLEMS ARE COMING TO GET YOU AND YOUR KIDS! God...why do ppl feed into these kinds of paranoia. Probably the same ppl that will be afraid of the sky falling if Faux News tells it will.

Listen, if anything, we are becoming a secular nation. Religion will die off in a hundred years. As things progress and we start not fearing 'The Gays', 'The Mooslems', and the 'Socialists'...we'll realize that we don't need an archaic book telling us what we can't or can do. We can think for ourselves.

"The voter is less important than the man who provides money to the candidate," - Former Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens
Rudedog no no no!
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Reply #14 posted 05/12/11 10:09am

Empress

rudedog said:

BE AFRAID!! THE MOOSLEMS ARE COMING TO GET YOU AND YOUR KIDS! God...why do ppl feed into these kinds of paranoia. Probably the same ppl that will be afraid of the sky falling if Faux News tells it will.

Listen, if anything, we are becoming a secular nation. Religion will die off in a hundred years. As things progress and we start not fearing 'The Gays', 'The Mooslems', and the 'Socialists'...we'll realize that we don't need an archaic book telling us what we can't or can do. We can think for ourselves.

Let's hope you are right. I would love to see the day when there is no religion of any kind. I think we should try doing without it for a while seeing as it's failed miserably for the past few thousand years.

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Reply #15 posted 05/12/11 10:16am

DarlingDiana

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Empress said:

rudedog said:

BE AFRAID!! THE MOOSLEMS ARE COMING TO GET YOU AND YOUR KIDS! God...why do ppl feed into these kinds of paranoia. Probably the same ppl that will be afraid of the sky falling if Faux News tells it will.

Listen, if anything, we are becoming a secular nation. Religion will die off in a hundred years. As things progress and we start not fearing 'The Gays', 'The Mooslems', and the 'Socialists'...we'll realize that we don't need an archaic book telling us what we can't or can do. We can think for ourselves.

Let's hope you are right. I would love to see the day when there is no religion of any kind. I think we should try doing without it for a while seeing as it's failed miserably for the past few thousand years.

So long as men desire to live together, no man may initiate the use of physical force against others.
- Ayn Rand
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Reply #16 posted 05/12/11 10:17am

Dsoul

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It's possible in the distant future, why not? Islam has a history of conquest and vehement believers who breed in large numbers.

American christians and muslims are two of the last few groups to take religion seriously and there will surely be a cultural war as such.

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Reply #17 posted 05/12/11 10:27am

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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Dsoul said:

It's possible in the distant future, why not? Islam has a history of conquest and vehement believers who breed in large numbers.

American christians and muslims are two of the last few groups to take religion seriously and there will surely be a cultural war as such.

Never. Right wing hatemongers know this. They won't try and stop scaring confederate flag waving racists that their way of life is about to be taken over.

[Edited 5/12/11 10:28am]

2010: Healing the Wounds of the Past.... http://prince.org/msg/8/325740
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Reply #18 posted 05/12/11 10:29am

DarlingDiana

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Dsoul said:

It's possible in the distant future, why not? Islam has a history of conquest and vehement believers who breed in large numbers.

American christians and muslims are two of the last few groups to take religion seriously and there will surely be a cultural war as such.

Never. Right wing hatemongers know this. They won't try and stop scaring confederate flag waving racists that their way of life is about to be taken over.

[Edited 5/12/11 10:28am]

herp derp

So long as men desire to live together, no man may initiate the use of physical force against others.
- Ayn Rand
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Reply #19 posted 05/12/11 10:34am

2elijah

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lol Such a ridiculous question. Sorry, but you sound paranoid.

[Edited 5/12/11 10:35am]

G. Giffords-a congresswoman was shot in the head by an 'armed' gunman-the police didn't kill her shooter. 'Unarmed' Michael Brown struggled w/a cop, runs away, surrenders and gets killed execution style by a cop. Justice for all? Go figure.
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Reply #20 posted 05/12/11 10:54am

paisleypark4

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Beautifulstarr123 said:

Proposal of a mosque to be built near Ground Zero of which caused public outrage. Crosses are being removed from cemeteries. Sharia laws privately embraced by judges in the judicial system. One example, a judge in New Jersey have decided that a husband did not rape his wife, and the case is being overturned. President Barack Obama's support of Islam. Here are a few links:

http://thecaucus.blogs.ny...st-speech/

http://www.ihatethemedia....im-country

http://www.cbsnews.com/83...03544.html

What do you think? Discuss your views.

[Edited 5/11/11 11:02am]

neutral if u dont sit down... :disbelief:
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Reply #21 posted 05/12/11 11:17am

RodeoSchro

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No, despite Fox News' fervent wish that some American cities convert to Sharia Law.

Second Funkiest White Man in America

Rocket Frog
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Reply #22 posted 05/12/11 11:30am

angel345

I would say this: If religion is being used for power and conquest, also to incite an riot, then it's a problem. Why would the thought of building a mosque near Ground Zero, when knowingly, you are inciting a riot, considering its 911 incident? You can build a mosque without removing crosses. Everyone is entitled to exercise their First Amendment rights as long as its not detrimental to others.

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Reply #23 posted 05/12/11 12:42pm

Graycap23

If the U.S. doesn't get it's collective act 2gether..........it may cease 2 be a nation at all.

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Reply #24 posted 05/12/11 1:38pm

HotGritz

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deebee said:

HotGritz said:

I higly doubt it but wouldn't rule it out. The Nazis did not always rule Germany. Cuba was not always a communist country. Ideologies pick up steam faster than we may think. All it really takes is for enough muslims to gain positions of power within the world of politics, media, education and entertainment and for more mosques to be built with an aggressive outreach program and you could very well change this nation to a muslim dominated nation. It's happened in many African countries.

p.s. edit post - In many African nations, Islam was introduced by force and you pretty much had to convert in order to avoid being exterminated. confused

[Edited 5/11/11 13:06pm]

Quite a lot of big 'if's in that scenario, dear; not least the idea of some kind of coordinated evangelising mission on behalf of America's Muslim population (and the shady, evangelising, politically-influential force commonly known as the Christian Right stepping aside to make way for the newbies!). I wouldn't go getting your burqa dry-cleaned just yet....

Maybe the better question might be 'will America become a paranoid, intolerant nation?' I seem to recall that those aforementioned Nazis rode to power on the back of a host of stories about a ethnoreligious minority in their midst, secretly plotting to gain a dominant position in society, which turned people's attention away from how screwed they all were because of the recent economic crisis. The sad thing was when otherwise warmhearted, intelligent people started believing it. neutral

[Edited 5/12/11 3:27am]

The fact is they rode to power. Period. They took over a country that did NOT have an Nazi ideology. America is not immune. Just because a simultaneous transformation of culture/leadership/power/religion may not happen in your or my lifetime doesn't mean it couldn't happen ever. You mentioned a "shady evangelising politically influential force" in your 1st paragraph and in your second paragraph you mention "stories of ethnoreligoius minority plotting to gain dominance". So in pre-Nazi Germany, who were the shady politically influential forces that stepped aside so the Nazi's could take over?

Somebody always has to step aside to make way for the newbies. You either step aside willingly or you step aside by force. Sometimes people step aside willingly to avoid force and other times you step aside simply because you believe the newbie can do a better job than your current establishment.

I'm not getting a burqa dry cleaned by any means but I'm not naive enough to think that the generations of women coming after me may not ever have that burqa dry cleaning bill. neutral

I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE UGLY. YOU JUST HAVE BAD LUCK WHEN IT COMES TO MIRRORS AND SUNLIGHT!
RIP Dick Clark, Whitney Houston, Don Cornelius, Heavy D, and Donna Summer. rose
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Reply #25 posted 05/12/11 1:53pm

HotGritz

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Graycap23 said:

If the U.S. doesn't get it's collective act 2gether..........it may cease 2 be a nation at all.

We may become part of the new country called North America consisting of US, Canada and Mexico or, and I think this is a real possiblity too, we may split up into several countries like Western United States, Central U.S. and Eastern U.S. or something. Honestly , it seems at times we are too big too govern and too inconsistent from state to state with regard to laws, economy, and even culture.

p.s.

Never understood why Washington D.C. was not made a U.S. state. You have residents of D.C. who are citizens, pay taxes, but have not voting representation in Congress.

[Edited 5/12/11 13:57pm]

I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE UGLY. YOU JUST HAVE BAD LUCK WHEN IT COMES TO MIRRORS AND SUNLIGHT!
RIP Dick Clark, Whitney Houston, Don Cornelius, Heavy D, and Donna Summer. rose
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Reply #26 posted 05/12/11 2:08pm

Lammastide

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No more likely than the chance it'll ever become a Christian nation, I suspect.

"Be excellent to each other." -Bill and Ted
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Reply #27 posted 05/12/11 3:34pm

deebee

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HotGritz said:

deebee said:

Quite a lot of big 'if's in that scenario, dear; not least the idea of some kind of coordinated evangelising mission on behalf of America's Muslim population (and the shady, evangelising, politically-influential force commonly known as the Christian Right stepping aside to make way for the newbies!). I wouldn't go getting your burqa dry-cleaned just yet....

Maybe the better question might be 'will America become a paranoid, intolerant nation?' I seem to recall that those aforementioned Nazis rode to power on the back of a host of stories about a ethnoreligious minority in their midst, secretly plotting to gain a dominant position in society, which turned people's attention away from how screwed they all were because of the recent economic crisis. The sad thing was when otherwise warmhearted, intelligent people started believing it. neutral

[Edited 5/12/11 3:27am]

The fact is they rode to power. Period. They took over a country that did NOT have an Nazi ideology. America is not immune. Just because a simultaneous transformation of culture/leadership/power/religion may not happen in your or my lifetime doesn't mean it couldn't happen ever. You mentioned a "shady evangelising politically influential force" in your 1st paragraph and in your second paragraph you mention "stories of ethnoreligoius minority plotting to gain dominance". So in pre-Nazi Germany, who were the shady politically influential forces that stepped aside so the Nazi's could take over?

Somebody always has to step aside to make way for the newbies. You either step aside willingly or you step aside by force. Sometimes people step aside willingly to avoid force and other times you step aside simply because you believe the newbie can do a better job than your current establishment.

I'm not getting a burqa dry cleaned by any means but I'm not naive enough to think that the generations of women coming after me may not ever have that burqa dry cleaning bill. neutral

But fascism in Europe had historical causes, took root in socio-economic conditions that were conducive to its development, and was promoted by actual people who (for various self-serving or misguided reasons) made a sustained, coordinated effort to develop it through a social movement and then to embed it in the institutions of the state. It didn't 'just happen', and it couldn't have happened if there weren't those preconditions, on the one hand, and sustained, coordinated actions to promote it and defend it, on the other. There's no comparable situation with Islam in America. (And nor, while we're at it, is 'Islam', in the form practiced by the vast majority of Muslims the world over, anything like the toxic ideology that Naziism was.)

The idea of Islam taking over America is a paranoid fantasy and nothing more. People haven't started indulging it because they've rationally, levelheadedly taken stock of social trends in the present and calmly wondered how they might realistically develop. It's gained currency because of fears projected onto members of certain minority communities, in the last ten years, which serve various people's interests. Yes, there are a small but vocal crop of Muslim nutters in the country with impossible colonisation fantasies of their own, but mostly this is an old tale of ethnic outsiders - 'enemies within' - that recurs and recurs, in various forms, throughout history. Usually ends up making some poor bastard's life miserable as they have to deal with the suspicion and demonisation that falls on their community as a result, which is why it's a shame to see it spread.

[Edited 5/12/11 15:37pm]

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Reply #28 posted 05/12/11 4:11pm

HotGritz

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deebee said:

HotGritz said:

The fact is they rode to power. Period. They took over a country that did NOT have an Nazi ideology. America is not immune. Just because a simultaneous transformation of culture/leadership/power/religion may not happen in your or my lifetime doesn't mean it couldn't happen ever. You mentioned a "shady evangelising politically influential force" in your 1st paragraph and in your second paragraph you mention "stories of ethnoreligoius minority plotting to gain dominance". So in pre-Nazi Germany, who were the shady politically influential forces that stepped aside so the Nazi's could take over?

Somebody always has to step aside to make way for the newbies. You either step aside willingly or you step aside by force. Sometimes people step aside willingly to avoid force and other times you step aside simply because you believe the newbie can do a better job than your current establishment.

I'm not getting a burqa dry cleaned by any means but I'm not naive enough to think that the generations of women coming after me may not ever have that burqa dry cleaning bill. neutral

But fascism in Europe had historical causes, took root in socio-economic conditions that were conducive to its development, and was promoted by actual people who (for various self-serving or misguided reasons) made a sustained, coordinated effort to develop it through a social movement and then to embed it in the institutions of the state. It didn't 'just happen', and it couldn't have happened if there weren't those preconditions, on the one hand, and sustained, coordinated actions to promote it and defend it, on the other. There's no comparable situation with Islam in America. (And nor, while we're at it, is 'Islam', in the form practiced by the vast majority of Muslims the world over, anything like the toxic ideology that Naziism was.)

The idea of Islam taking over America is a paranoid fantasy and nothing more. People haven't started indulging it because they've rationally, levelheadedly taken stock of social trends in the present and calmly wondered how they might realistically develop. It's gained currency because of fears projected onto members of certain minority communities, in the last ten years, which serve various people's interests. Yes, there are a small but vocal crop of Muslim nutters in the country with impossible colonisation fantasies of their own, but mostly this is an old tale of ethnic outsiders - 'enemies within' - that recurs and recurs, in various forms, throughout history. Usually ends up making some poor bastard's life miserable as they have to deal with the suspicion and demonisation that falls on their community as a result, which is why it's a shame to see it spread.

[Edited 5/12/11 15:37pm]

No one said, certainly not I, that fascism in Europe "just happened" for no rhyme or reason anymore than Islam spread through North Africa for no rhyme or reason. Any religious or political overtaking of a nation is the result of a sustained and coordinated social movement and often the conditions that exist to make that movement happen may , emphasis on may,be rooted in a falling economy and distrust of the current establishment which is what we currently have in America.

Why should the idea of Islam taking over America be a paranoid fantasy when Islam basically took over North Africa and parts of the Middle East and Asia? Perhaps you and I are looking at a "takeover" from differing perspectives. I don't necessarily think that it would be "muslim nutters" taking over America as it certainly wasn't "christian nutters" who did. What I am simply saying is that history has proven that one ideaology and belief system can overtake another within a nation and America, being the open border type country she is, is no exception.

I'M NOT SAYING YOU'RE UGLY. YOU JUST HAVE BAD LUCK WHEN IT COMES TO MIRRORS AND SUNLIGHT!
RIP Dick Clark, Whitney Houston, Don Cornelius, Heavy D, and Donna Summer. rose
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Reply #29 posted 05/12/11 4:58pm

deebee

avatar

HotGritz said:

deebee said:

But fascism in Europe had historical causes, took root in socio-economic conditions that were conducive to its development, and was promoted by actual people who (for various self-serving or misguided reasons) made a sustained, coordinated effort to develop it through a social movement and then to embed it in the institutions of the state. It didn't 'just happen', and it couldn't have happened if there weren't those preconditions, on the one hand, and sustained, coordinated actions to promote it and defend it, on the other. There's no comparable situation with Islam in America. (And nor, while we're at it, is 'Islam', in the form practiced by the vast majority of Muslims the world over, anything like the toxic ideology that Naziism was.)

The idea of Islam taking over America is a paranoid fantasy and nothing more. People haven't started indulging it because they've rationally, levelheadedly taken stock of social trends in the present and calmly wondered how they might realistically develop. It's gained currency because of fears projected onto members of certain minority communities, in the last ten years, which serve various people's interests. Yes, there are a small but vocal crop of Muslim nutters in the country with impossible colonisation fantasies of their own, but mostly this is an old tale of ethnic outsiders - 'enemies within' - that recurs and recurs, in various forms, throughout history. Usually ends up making some poor bastard's life miserable as they have to deal with the suspicion and demonisation that falls on their community as a result, which is why it's a shame to see it spread.

[Edited 5/12/11 15:37pm]

No one said, certainly not I, that fascism in Europe "just happened" for no rhyme or reason anymore than Islam spread through North Africa for no rhyme or reason. Any religious or political overtaking of a nation is the result of a sustained and coordinated social movement and often the conditions that exist to make that movement happen may , emphasis on may,be rooted in a falling economy and distrust of the current establishment which is what we currently have in America.

Why should the idea of Islam taking over America be a paranoid fantasy when Islam basically took over North Africa and parts of the Middle East and Asia? Perhaps you and I are looking at a "takeover" from differing perspectives. I don't necessarily think that it would be "muslim nutters" taking over America as it certainly wasn't "christian nutters" who did. What I am simply saying is that history has proven that one ideaology and belief system can overtake another within a nation and America, being the open border type country she is, is no exception.

Well, all kinds of religious and non-religious ideologies can take over anywhere at all, in theory. But there's no reason to believe it's at all likely, because there aren't the same kind of historical precursors that might create a vacuum that some programme of mass Islamic conversion would fill (like there were in Germany for nationalistic renewal after WWI), and no signs that Americans are, en masse, planning to freely abandon their existing political institutions and cultural/religious norms (particularly in the face of widespread Islamophobia!), nor the kind of military force that might back up imperial conquest - a bit like the armies that the European Christian colonisers brought with them to Africa and South America, to help with all the dispossession and enslavement. And there isn't any kind of serious social movement pushing for that, in any case.

Yes, anything's imaginable -- it's imaginable that I could be a future president of the USA, 'if only' they change the Constitution to allow non-citizens to ascend to that office, and I can get millions of people to vote for my programme of moody leftism -- but there's no reason to rationally suppose that that, or most things one can conjure up with one's imagination, are going to happen.

So, in the face of that dearth of evidence, I'm compelled to look for other reasons why that particular fantasy might have been circulating for the last, ooh, roughly ten years. And when I do that, what I see is that it's got much more to do with powerful but irrational fears arising out of our current 'war on terror', and the 'clash of civilisations' some have tried to frame that as part of, all mixed up with suspicion about a community of ethnic outsiders who've become one of the prime 'enemies within' in America and Europe today.

[Edited 5/12/11 17:02pm]

"Not everything that is faced can be changed; but nothing can be changed until it is faced." - James Baldwin
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Forums > Politics & Religion > Will America Become A Muslim Nation?