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Thread started 09/30/10 7:35am

robinhood

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how many levels of security are there above the president of the united states?

*

i've heard there are 38 levels above top secret, and that the president only has a level 17 security clearance, but not sure if that is true

something worth looking into imo, because it gives a better frame of reference when we talk about 'obama' and what he may or may not have any control over

plus a better perspective on just how huge this whole thing is

i will do some more 'investigating' and add what i find to this thread, but in the meantime it would be great if you could please post what you find too, all comments welcome

this too shall pass
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Reply #1 posted 09/30/10 7:56am

MrSoulpower

If we knew the answer to that question, then these levels wouldn't be so secure, would they? biggrin

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Reply #2 posted 09/30/10 8:02am

robinhood

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MrSoulpower said:

If we knew the answer to that question, then these levels wouldn't be so secure, would they? biggrin

not sure their security is breached by us knowing about them, but i find it fascinating that obama only has a level 17 clearance... poor guy cool

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Reply #3 posted 09/30/10 8:08am

MrSoulpower

robinhood said:

MrSoulpower said:

If we knew the answer to that question, then these levels wouldn't be so secure, would they? biggrin

not sure their security is breached by us knowing about them, but i find it fascinating that obama only has a level 17 clearance... poor guy cool

Where's your source for this?

To my knowledge, there are only five security levels.

Unclassified
For Official Use Only
Confidential
Secret
Top Secret

The president has access to them all. I'm not saying that information isn't being kept from him ... but strictly talking security levels, there is none he has no access to. He just has to ask the right questions.

[Edited 9/30/10 8:08am]

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Reply #4 posted 09/30/10 5:26pm

robinhood

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this too shall pass
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Reply #5 posted 09/30/10 7:01pm

MrSoulpower

I'd be veeery careful with the claims made in this clip. First of all, it focuses on governmental UFO affairs. Sure, there is much classified information (that still has not been declassified), but I doubt 38 levels are needed for that. Is there a level above Top Secret that the president doesn't have access to? Maybe. I don't know. It's certainly possible that the president is not aware of everything.

Once again, it's a matter of sources. Who are these people in this clip? Why are they reliable? How do we even know they are who they say they are? (I know about Daniel Sheehan, he's a dedicated ufologist and at times, uhm, a major conspiracy theorist who often seems to theorize for the sake of the theory.)

Anyway, nothing in this clip is actual proof for you thesis. There's just a handful of people who claim to be low-level officials and who say that there are higher levels of classifications. But what have we actually learned from watching this clip? Nothing new, really. And nothing definite.

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Reply #6 posted 09/30/10 8:11pm

robinhood

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MrSoulpower said:

Anyway, nothing in this clip is actual proof for you thesis.

this thread is a question, and a sharing of information. as i said in my original post, i'm not sure if it's true.

but i wont let that stop me from looking into any information i find. similarly, other people's opinions of the information i find, wont stop me from looking into it.

not prepared to accept what traditional media outlets tell me. they've proven they dont know the difference between a fact and a rumor.

so i will continue my search and keep an open mind. i might find more rumors, or i might find some facts.

regardless, i find the views of ex military personnel very interesting. if you dont think the people in the clip are the people they claim to be,

feel free to research the names mentioned and if they are who they say they are.

you should know though, friends of mine were murdered by 'who knows who' for conducting group meetings about their shared UFO abduction.

they were falsely accused by the CIA of stealing state secrets. this is on record in the courts.

this too shall pass
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Reply #7 posted 09/30/10 8:34pm

IanRG

Job Security - hardly any more levels of security till the next election and few with less levels after the first 8 years. wink

[Edited 9/30/10 20:35pm]

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Reply #8 posted 10/01/10 4:18am

MrSoulpower

robinhood said:

MrSoulpower said:

Anyway, nothing in this clip is actual proof for you thesis.

this thread is a question, and a sharing of information. as i said in my original post, i'm not sure if it's true.

but i wont let that stop me from looking into any information i find. similarly, other people's opinions of the information i find, wont stop me from looking into it.

not prepared to accept what traditional media outlets tell me. they've proven they dont know the difference between a fact and a rumor.

so i will continue my search and keep an open mind. i might find more rumors, or i might find some facts.

regardless, i find the views of ex military personnel very interesting. if you dont think the people in the clip are the people they claim to be,

feel free to research the names mentioned and if they are who they say they are.

you should know though, friends of mine were murdered by 'who knows who' for conducting group meetings about their shared UFO abduction.

they were falsely accused by the CIA of stealing state secrets. this is on record in the courts.

Fair enough. But after reading your post #2 in this thread, I had the impression that you have already accepted it as factual.

I'm not ruling out that there possibly are higher security levels, and it's possible that the president might not be cleared for all. Who knows. I'm just very careful when a few people claiming to be "in the know" but with un-verifiable backgrounds present their stories to someone on youtube.

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Reply #9 posted 10/01/10 6:12am

robinhood

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MrSoulpower said:

robinhood said:

this thread is a question, and a sharing of information. as i said in my original post, i'm not sure if it's true.

but i wont let that stop me from looking into any information i find. similarly, other people's opinions of the information i find, wont stop me from looking into it.

not prepared to accept what traditional media outlets tell me. they've proven they dont know the difference between a fact and a rumor.

so i will continue my search and keep an open mind. i might find more rumors, or i might find some facts.

regardless, i find the views of ex military personnel very interesting. if you dont think the people in the clip are the people they claim to be,

feel free to research the names mentioned and if they are who they say they are.

you should know though, friends of mine were murdered by 'who knows who' for conducting group meetings about their shared UFO abduction.

they were falsely accused by the CIA of stealing state secrets. this is on record in the courts.

Fair enough. But after reading your post #2 in this thread, I had the impression that you have already accepted it as factual.

I'm not ruling out that there possibly are higher security levels, and it's possible that the president might not be cleared for all. Who knows. I'm just very careful when a few people claiming to be "in the know" but with un-verifiable backgrounds present their stories to someone on youtube.

that's ok, you are free to be as careful as you feel you need to be

i'm not presenting anything here as a fact that anyone must accept

in regard to their backgrounds being un-verifiable, have you tried to verify them?

might be interesting too see what you find if you were to do some research

this too shall pass
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Reply #10 posted 10/01/10 5:43pm

robinhood

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i find it interesting that carter asked the CIA for certain intelligence information and they flatly refused, apparently. bush senior was head of the department at the time.

and eisenhower warned us about the military industrial complex. all these years later, that's where most of our money goes. trillions of dollars on death weapons.

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Reply #11 posted 10/01/10 6:36pm

robinhood

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CIA secret experiments on humans - biological weapons - part 1 of 5

imagine what they're up to now, publically apologizing for infecting guatamalans with STD's, but probably continuing to do much worse in 2010.

apparently they only apologize when they've been busted, good for their public image i suppose.

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Reply #12 posted 10/02/10 12:53am

robinhood

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aw how cute. a secret club. how old are they? 12?

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Reply #13 posted 10/02/10 4:05pm

robinhood

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in the 1st video in this thread they mention the 'cosmic level' of intel. i wonder if they concern themselves with things like this:

i've heard interviews with people who investigate the crop circle phenomenon where they state they have been harassed by certain agencies and they go into great detail when telling their story.

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Reply #14 posted 10/03/10 3:42pm

robinhood

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IanRG said:

Job Security - hardly any more levels of security till the next election and few with less levels after the first 8 years. wink

without jobs we wouldnt be able to keep funding the military industrial complex with trillions of our tax dollars so i'm guessing they'll figure something out.

its real important that we work and keep our job otherwise arms dealers with lose theirs and then what will they do?

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Reply #15 posted 10/04/10 3:55pm

robinhood

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these videos were posted by another orger in another forum about NASA evidence of UFO technology so i figured i'd post them here as they seem to fit the topic.

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Reply #16 posted 10/04/10 8:53pm

robinhood

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robinhood said:

CIA secret experiments on humans - biological weapons - part 1 of 5

imagine what they're up to now, publically apologizing for infecting guatamalans with STD's, but probably continuing to do much worse in 2010.

apparently they only apologize when they've been busted, good for their public image i suppose.

following on from the above ^ - here is a list of human experiments done between 1931 and 1997.

i dont know if this list is fact or fiction, or a combination of both, but it might be fair to say this type of thing still goes on today.

dont let a lovely apology for one incident occuring with guatemalans fool you.

the military industrial complex might be able to fool the president but they dont fool me.

here's the list:

1931 Dr. Cornelius Rhoads, under the auspices of the Rockefeller Institute for Medical Investigations, infects human subjects with cancer cells. He later goes on to establish the U.S. Army Biological Warfare facilities in Maryland, Utah, and Panama, and is named to the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission. While there, he begins a series of radiation exposure experiments on American soldiers and civilian hospital patients.

1932 The Tuskegee Syphilis Study begins. 200 black men diagnosed with syphilis are never told of their illness, are denied treatment, and instead are used as human guinea pigs in order to follow the progression and symptoms of the disease. They all subsequently die from syphilis, their families never told that they could have been treated.

1935 The Pellagra Incident. After millions of individuals die from Pellagra over a span of two decades, the U.S. Public Health Service finally acts to stem the disease. The director of the agency admits it had known for at least 20 years that Pellagra is caused by a niacin deficiency but failed to act since most of the deaths occured within poverty-striken black populations.

1940 Four hundred prisoners in Chicago are infected with Malaria in order to study the effects of new and experimental drugs to combat the disease. Nazi doctors later on trial at Nuremberg cite this American study to defend their own actions during the Holocaust.

1942 Chemical Warfare Services begins mustard gas experiments on approximately 4,000 servicemen. The experiments continue until 1945 and made use of Seventh Day Adventists who chose to become human guinea pigs rather than serve on active duty.

1943 In response to Japan's full-scale germ warfare program, the U.S. begins research on biological weapons at Fort Detrick, MD.

1944 U.S. Navy uses human subjects to test gas masks and clothing. Individuals were locked in a gas chamber and exposed to mustard gas and lewisite.

1945 Project Paperclip is initiated. The U.S. State Department, Army intelligence, and the CIA recruit Nazi scientists and offer them immunity and secret identities in exchange for work on top secret government projects in the United States.

1945 "Program F" is implemented by the U.S. Atomic Energy Commission (AEC). This is the most extensive U.S. study of the health effects of fluoride, which was the key chemical component in atomic bomb production. One of the most toxic chemicals known to man, fluoride, it is found, causes marked adverse effects to the central nervous system but much of the information is squelched in the name of national security because of fear that lawsuits would undermine full-scale production of atomic bombs.

1946 Patients in VA hospitals are used as guinea pigs for medical experiments. In order to allay suspicions, the order is given to change the word "experiments" to "investigations" or "observations" whenever reporting a medical study performed in one of the nation's veteran's hospitals.

1947 Colonel E.E. Kirkpatrick of the U.S. Atomic Energy Comission issues a secret document (Document 07075001, January 8, 1947) stating that the agency will begin administering intravenous doses of radioactive substances to human subjects.

1947 The CIA begins its study of LSD as a potential weapon for use by American intelligence. Human subjects (both civilian and military) are used with and without their knowledge.

1950 Department of Defense begins plans to detonate nuclear weapons in desert areas and monitor downwind residents for medical problems and mortality rates.

1950 I n an experiment to determine how susceptible an American city would be to biological attack, the U.S. Navy sprays a cloud of bacteria from ships over San Franciso. Monitoring devices are situated throughout the city in order to test the extent of infection. Many residents become ill with pneumonia-like symptoms.

1951 Department of Defense begins open air tests using disease-producing bacteria and viruses. Tests last through 1969 and there is concern that people in the surrounding areas have been exposed.

1953 U.S. military releases clouds of zinc cadmium sulfide gas over Winnipeg, St. Louis, Minneapolis, Fort Wayne, the Monocacy River Valley in Maryland, and Leesburg, Virginia. Their intent is to determine how efficiently they could disperse chemical agents.

1953 Joint Army-Navy-CIA experiments are conducted in which tens of thousands of people in New York and San Francisco are exposed to the airborne germs Serratia marcescens and Bacillus glogigii.

1953 CIA initiates Project MKULTRA. This is an eleven year research program designed to produce and test drugs and biological agents that would be used for mind control and behavior modification. Six of the subprojects involved testing the agents on unwitting human beings.

1955 The CIA, in an experiment to test its ability to infect human populations with biological agents, releases a bacteria withdrawn from the Army's biological warfare arsenal over Tampa Bay, Fl.

1955 Army Chemical Corps continues LSD research, studying its potential use as a chemical incapacitating agent. More than 1,000 Americans participate in the tests, which continue until 1958.

1956 U.S. military releases mosquitoes infected with Yellow Fever over Savannah, Ga and Avon Park, Fl. Following each test, Army agents posing as public health officials test victims for effects.

1958 LSD is tested on 95 volunteers at the Army's Chemical Warfare Laboratories for its effect on intelligence.

1960 The Army Assistant Chief-of-Staff for Intelligence (ACSI) authorizes field testing of LSD in Europe and the Far East. Testing of the european population is code named Project THIRD CHANCE; testing of the Asian population is code named Project DERBY HAT.

1965 Project CIA and Department of Defense begin Project MKSEARCH, a program to develop a capability to manipulate human behavior through the use of mind-altering drugs.

1965 Prisoners at the Holmesburg State Prison in Philadelphia are subjected to dioxin, the highly toxic chemical component of Agent Orange used in Viet Nam. The men are later studied for development of cancer, which indicates that Agent Orange had been a suspected carcinogen all along.

1966 CIA initiates Project MKOFTEN, a program to test the toxicological effects of certain drugs on humans and animals.

1966 U.S. Army dispenses Bacillus subtilis variant niger throughout the New York City subway system. More than a million civilians are exposed when army scientists drop lightbulbs filled with the bacteria onto ventilation grates.

1967 CIA and Department of Defense implement Project MKNAOMI, successor to MKULTRA and designed to maintain, stockpile and test biological and chemical weapons.

1968 CIA experiments with the possibility of poisoning drinking water by injecting chemicals into the water supply of the FDA in Washington, D.C.

1969 Dr. Robert MacMahan of the Department of Defense requests from congress $10 million to develop, within 5 to 10 years, a synthetic biological agent to which no natural immunity exists.

1970 Funding for the synthetic biological agent is obtained under H.R. 15090. The project, under the supervision of the CIA, is carried out by the Special Operations Division at Fort Detrick, the army's top secret biological weapons facility. Speculation is raised that molecular biology techniques are used to produce AIDS-like retroviruses.

1970 United States intensifies its development of "ethnic weapons" (Military Review, Nov., 1970), designed to selectively target and eliminate specific ethnic groups who are susceptible due to genetic differences and variations in DNA.

1975 The virus section of Fort Detrick's Center for Biological Warfare Research is renamed the Fredrick Cancer Research Facilities and placed under the supervision of the National Cancer Institute (NCI) . It is here that a special virus cancer program is initiated by the U.S. Navy, purportedly to develop cancer-causing viruses. It is also here that retrovirologists isolate a virus to which no immunity exists. It is later named HTLV (Human T-cell Leukemia Virus).

1977 Senate hearings on Health and Scientific Research confirm that 239 populated areas had been contaminated with biological agents between 1949 and 1969. Some of the areas included San Francisco, Washington, D.C., Key West, Panama City, Minneapolis, and St. Louis.

1978 Experimental Hepatitis B vaccine trials, conducted by the CDC, begin in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco. Ads for research subjects specifically ask for promiscuous homosexual men.

1981 First cases of AIDS are confirmed in homosexual men in New York, Los Angeles and San Francisco, triggering speculation that AIDS may have been introduced via the Hepatitis B vaccine

1985 According to the journal Science (227:173-177), HTLV and VISNA, a fatal sheep virus, are very similar, indicating a close taxonomic and evolutionary relationship.

1986 According to the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (83:4007-4011), HIV and VISNA are highly similar and share all structural elements, except for a small segment which is nearly identical to HTLV. This leads to speculation that HTLV and VISNA may have been linked to produce a new retrovirus to which no natural immunity exists.

1986 A report to Congress reveals that the U.S. Government's current generation of biological agents includes: modified viruses, naturally occurring toxins, and agents that are altered through genetic engineering to change immunological character and prevent treatment by all existing vaccines.

1987 Department of Defense admits that, despite a treaty banning research and development of biological agents, it continues to operate research facilities at 127 facilities and universities around the nation.

1990 More than 1500 six-month old black and hispanic babies in Los Angeles are given an "experimental" measles vaccine that had never been licensed for use in the United States. CDC later admits that parents were never informed that the vaccine being injected to their children was experimental.

1994 With a technique called "gene tracking," Dr. Garth Nicolson at the MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, TX discovers that many returning Desert Storm veterans are infected with an altered strain of Mycoplasma incognitus, a microbe commonly used in the production of biological weapons. Incorporated into its molecular structure is 40 percent of the HIV protein coat, indicating that it had been man-made.

1994 Senator John D. Rockefeller issues a report revealing that for at least 50 years the Department of Defense has used hundreds of thousands of military personnel in human experiments and for intentional exposure to dangerous substances. Materials included mustard and nerve gas, ionizing radiation, psychochemicals, hallucinogens, and drugs used during the Gulf War .

1995 U.S. Government admits that it had offered Japanese war criminals and scientists who had performed human medical experiments salaries and immunity from prosecution in exchange for data on biological warfare research.

1995 Dr. Garth Nicolson, uncovers evidence that the biological agents used during the Gulf War had been manufactured in Houston, TX and Boca Raton, Fl and tested on prisoners in the Texas Department of Corrections.

1996 Department of Defense admits that Desert Storm soldiers were exposed to chemical agents.

1997 Eighty-eight members of Congress sign a letter demanding an investigation into bioweapons use & Gulf War Syndrome.

http://www.healthnewsnet....ments.html

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Reply #17 posted 10/05/10 12:27am

ehuffnsd

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robinhood said:

aw how cute. a secret club. how old are they? 12?

what Obama, Hilary, and the Pope are doing are what i was taught as meaning "I love you" i've seen Cher and Janet flash the same sign in concert

W is giving the Hook'em Horns thing from Texas AM

Don't know what Mr Crazy I hate Israel so much because my family is really Jewish is doing.

You CANNOT use the name of God, or religion, to justify acts of violence, to hurt, to hate, to discriminate- Madonna
authentic power is service- Pope Francis
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Reply #18 posted 10/05/10 4:49pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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the names are kind of meaniless above TS. After that *and really at all levels* are the 'need to know' clearances. But there are many names for the various clearancs.

Ironicaly Obama would have a had time getting a secret clearance and could never get a top secret if he walked in off the street. (

FYI: there are some Orgers I ignore. So when I do not reply to them... that is why.
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Reply #19 posted 10/05/10 5:11pm

robinhood

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

the names are kind of meaniless above TS. After that *and really at all levels* are the 'need to know' clearances.

who decides what the president needs to know? right there is the suggestion that people other than himself are in control of not only what he knows, but what WE know, or do not know.

the veil of secrecy above top secret is unfair, not only to the president, but to people all over the world.

we vote these governments in, we vote these leaders in, and then we find out they aren't in the know?

they over-see and make policies for our every-day life in this 'matrix', yet not even THEY know what is going on beyond this 'matrix' ?

why are we not exposed to THE TRUTH? is it simply for national security reasons, or do they have something to hide? and why?

i found it interesting that jimmy carter asked for the UFO case files from the CIA and they FLATLY REFUSED to give them to him.

AND YET on their very own website, they say their mission is TO PROVIDE INTELLIGENCE FOR POLICY MAKERS, which would include the president, but only if they want to?

fed up. so much lies and with-holding from the general public on issues we deserve to know about, yet they keep us locked in this little box, obeying their silly system, and take trillions of our tax dollars to make their wars more deadly.

how is it in our best interests for the military industrial complex to spend our money manufacturing utterly vile ways of killing people? how is it in our best interests when WAR = DEATH ?

this too shall pass
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Reply #20 posted 10/05/10 5:18pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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robinhood said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

the names are kind of meaniless above TS. After that *and really at all levels* are the 'need to know' clearances.

who decides what the president needs to know? right there is the suggestion that people other than himself are in control of not only what he knows, but what WE know, or do not know.

the veil of secrecy above top secret is unfair, not only to the president, but to people all over the world.

we vote these governments in, we vote these leaders in, and then we find out they aren't in the know?

they over-see and make policies for our every-day life in this 'matrix', yet not even THEY know what is going on beyond this 'matrix' ?

why are we not exposed to THE TRUTH? is it simply for national security reasons, or do they have something to hide? and why?

i found it interesting that jimmy carter asked for the UFO case files from the CIA and they FLATLY REFUSED to give them to him.

AND YET on their very own website, they say their mission is TO PROVIDE INTELLIGENCE FOR POLICY MAKERS, which would include the president, but only if they want to?

fed up. so much lies and with-holding from the general public on issues we deserve to know about, yet they keep us locked in this little box, obeying their silly system, and take trillions of our tax dollars to make their wars more deadly.

how is it in our best interests for the military industrial complex to spend our money manufacturing utterly vile ways of killing people? how is it in our best interests when WAR = DEATH ?

I was not being very clear: I was only talking about levels over/different than TOP SECRET. You can have a top secret clearance and still not have access to some stuff.

As far as the 'levels above the president' sounds like tin foil territory to me. Seems like it is garbage made up by conspiracy nuts that want to be able to excuse the most convincing statement a given president or former president could make denying the nut case conspiracy of the day.

Obama says there are no UFOs well them he must not know!

FYI: there are some Orgers I ignore. So when I do not reply to them... that is why.
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Reply #21 posted 10/05/10 5:39pm

robinhood

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

Obama says there are no UFOs well them he must not know!

if he does know, why doesnt he say anything?

why do people who have worked in the military state outright that there are projects concerning UFO technology and that if they ever spoke about it they would lose their job?

are they ALL lying? why would they bother making it up? and how come so many of them say the same thing?

we find out that there were experiments done on the people of guatemala, for instance, yet did we KNOW about this when it was happening? of course not.

it is obvious, at least to me, that there ARE levels of 'security' above the president, that KEEP SECRETS, not only from the president, but from THE WHOLE WORLD.

imagine what kind of experiements they have done on people since the guatemala incident. think they stopped there?

i also dont think its fair to label people who look into these scenarios as being 'nutters' or 'conspiracy theorists' simply because they have questions.

in my opinion, they are fair and reasonable questions, because so many things about our 'governments' simply do NOT add up

there are way too many people who have come out and spoken out about what goes on behind some of those closed doors.

terms like 'nutter' and 'conspiracy theorist' are a convenient way of brushing off FAIR and reasonable questions, when so many other people would rather not even THINK, imo,

and/or because it bruises the ego of these 'labelists' to think they may have been fooled the whole time and they don't know everything like they think they do.

this too shall pass
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Reply #22 posted 10/05/10 5:53pm

OnlyNDaUsa

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Conspiracy theories work because there is just enough evidence to make them seem as if there HAS to be something to them.

I am not saying there are not any aliens. Just that such evidence is still well within the realm of conspiracy theory tin foil hat town.

FYI: there are some Orgers I ignore. So when I do not reply to them... that is why.
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Reply #23 posted 10/05/10 6:09pm

robinhood

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

Conspiracy theories work because there is just enough evidence to make them seem as if there HAS to be something to them.

I am not saying there are not any aliens. Just that such evidence is still well within the realm of conspiracy theory tin foil hat town.

to you that may be the case, because you havent seen any evidence, because the people who have the evidence wont show it to you.

and because you dont have access to that evidence, you label it a conspiracy theory and call people 'nutters'.

i personally dont think it is fair to trivialize the lives of thousands of people who conduct serious and intelligent investigations in this area.

my friends were murdered over things like this, and frankly i'm tired of the attitude on these boards towards 'conspiracy theorists'.

find a new label. tin foil hat doesnt do it for me either. no offence.

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