Other music boards don't have a Politics and Religion section on a site dedicated to a musician who is a closet queen who sometimes puts his Jehovah's Witness views in his music. Welcome to the org honey!

noimageatall said:

Oh honey, that was fun!

Oh honey, that was fun!

vainandy said:

that has nothing to do with the way some people hate on straight people's views- it's hypocritical

Evvy said:

Huggiebear said:

None of the charges you list above are correct.

PanthaGirl said:

Who hates straight people's views? I love straight people. If it weren't for straight people I would never have been born. And with straight friends, at least I don't have to worry about them going after the same man I'm going after. I just don't want straight people hating me and I don't want them denying me my rights by hiding behind or manipulating religion to do it. I believe in God and I love God but he made me just like he made straight people and he loves me just like he loves them. We're ALL sinners, both straight and gay, and I don't need no straight person to point out my sins or even what they think my sins may be. When they have no sins themselves, they can do that.

That doesn't apply to Jehovah's Witneses as our religion is not broken off from another group. And I believe our path is very positive.

ehuffnsd said:

Uhope said:

They are correct and do apply, I am witness to being stalked and harassed on my own property by JW's and if u scroll back and read some of the other stories U will see there are more cases of stalking and harassment and that's only on the org, U can only imagine what else goes on in the world. Another aspect that cannot be denied is that JW's do indeed attempt to force their beliefs on others. I do understand there are worse cults out there, but as for the JW religion it still fits into the mould. It is what it is.

Wow a real devotee of a cult, so you call stalking ex members not cult like practices? I am sorry but as far as a lot of us are concerned Jehovahs Witness is a CULT.

Uhope said:

We certainly share our beliefs, preaching the good news of God's Kingdom as per Jesus' command (Matthew 24:14; 28:19, 20). What is a witness to anything if they don't speak about it?

When I think of "force", I imagine laws enacted, penalties levied if not adhered to. Many religious groups have done that throughout history and continue to do so. Jehovah's Witnesses do not seek to force or legislate their beliefs on to anyone in any way. Of course, if one wishes to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses, they are obliged to accept and live by Bible principles -- and much time is taken to be sure an individual knows what those are before they can become a Witness. If one does not wish to continue to live by those standards, they can leave.

Wait a minute honey, I'm on your side. I hope that was a typo directed at the person I quoted and not at me.

Wait a minute honey, I'm on your side. I hope that was a typo directed at the person I quoted and not at me.

razor said:

Ok fine but it wasn't JW's that carried the swastika and helped in bombing most of the nations in Europe, people of the North Americans, Australians in the world war, how many cults were in on that? That's dangerous and what's to say it won't happen again so-called christian against so-called christian, Muslim against Muslim. Look at the eastern blocks right now. If there is any uprising to arms, we won't be involved. Ah but no you are threatened by our peacefulness and dedication to our faith and the fact we won't sing the song, wave the banner, give great salute to a man in power. 7 million of us, and there are cults of hundreds of millions even billions actively in war, you have failed to discuss. Who's blind.

Uhope said:

it's like some orgers are a cult who ban together to bannish you if you are not gay, political, or if you believe in God. I've never experienced this on any other music board.

vainandy said:

that has nothing to do with the way some people hate on straight people's views- it's hypocritical

Evvy said:

What utter nonsence. Lets deal with them one by one:

I am straight and I have never felt victimised on this board as a result of that fact. I have never witnessed anyone else being victimised becuase they are straight. I challenge you to find anyone who has, apart from your good self. You won't.

On religion, the faithful far outweigh the unbelievers on here. I can personally assure you that it is we atheists who sit firmly in the minority. Perhaps what you are not used is your beliefs being challenged in a robust manner? Perhaps you are used to people "respecting" them? Well, you're on a discussion and debating site. Expect challenge.

As for politics, I would suggest that if you have no political views, or are not "political", yet come into a politics discussion forum, don't be surprised if you feel ostracised. Equally, choosing not to vote is a stance that many people, rightly or wrongly, will find perverse and will not respect. You should expect challenge there too.

Basically, you seem to want a forum where everyone will simply respect and agree with everything you say. Or where at the very least you have the comfort of being in the majority. I'd go somewhere else if those are your criteria.

razor said:

first off I didn't post this in politics and religion- it was moved here.

Secondly, although I may not agree with everything, what you said was extremely sensible and understandable- thank you for that. However, I have found that the "minority" (-non-christians-)and non straight people (I don't feel like they are exactly a minority on this site) are forceful and rude at times with their opinions. The moment someone does not eembrace their views they tend to be abrasive. For example, if you said - i don't believe in Christ- I for one am not gaonna punch you in the face with my words.

if I said I don't believe homosexuality is natural all hell breaks loose....
and everything has to be gay- they may not say it directly- but a straight person is made to feel that way. People are intriguing and or likeable to me- not because I know who they invite to bed- but by their characters and the way they in turn treat others.

If you have to do something kicking and screaming and tearing down others with your "self love" words- maybe you shouldn't be doing it.

Evvy said:

I would suggest there's a fundamental difference between those two statements that probably explains the varying reactions:

Saying I do not believe in god is nothing other than a subjective opinion about a largely subjective matter. As such, whilst the matter will be debated, that statement is not normally taken, in and of itself, as offensive to someone else, largely because it can not be emprically demostrated to be true of false. As such, the believer can not suggest the unbeliever is being wilfully ignorant.

Saying "I don't believe homosexuality is natural" on the other hand, normally does cause offense. And the reason for that is largely because it is quite simple to demonstrate empirically whether homosexuality is natural or not. It is not a matter for belief, but rather of historical, identifiable, recordable, provable fact i.e. it is natural.

In order therefore to state otherwise, one is demonstrating ignorance. Now sometimes that ignorance may simply be a lack of knowledge. But other times, it is wilful i.e. a denial of facts either to further an agenda or simply fit in with a personal worldview or belief system. For that reason, I imagine it is quite rational to become offended becuase the person is implying anyone who is homosexual has "chosen" that route and normally the implication is attached that they have done so for "sinful" reasons.
So perhaps ther best thing to do in future is to investigate the validity of any statment you wish to make that is concerning a subject that is likely to be controversial and illicit multiple responses.
[Edited 11/6/09 6:06am]

razor said:

Not sure I fully understand what you're asking here. But not only does the creationist have no evidence for his beliefs, but they have been proven tangibly wring in many instances, so he is actually going against known facts i.e. being wilfully ignorant in an attempt to maintain his own belief system.



I would certainly disagree with such a statement due to its lack of basis. And I might view such a worldview as unhealthy since it propagates the idea of self-loathing. So in that sense it might "upset" me. But I would prefer a blanket statement to one which singled out homosexuals.



Libre arbitre? Not sure what that means. But no, not everything is relative. Soemthings are definitive. Such as homosexuality being natural for example.

[Edited 11/6/09 6:18am]

Evvy said:

First off I didn't post this in politics and religion- it was moved here.

if I said I don't believe homosexuality is natural all hell breaks loose....

and everything has to be gay- they may not say it directly- but a straight person is made to feel that way.

Evvy said:[quote]

Of course all hell is going to break loose. Do you think we are just going to sit there and take comments like that? That's like getting mad because somebody won't sit still for you while you hit them in the head with a brick....."Well, why do you keep moving? What's the matter, I'm just trying to hit you with this brick."

rodman2 said:

You obviously missed my earlier post where I clearly stated:

"Every religion is a cult...but of course when a cult has enough members, it is no longer percieved as such"

So I'm more than happy to agree that every religion is a cult and to accept your point that every religion is bizarre and dangerous. In fact I couldn't agree more.

However, as I have already stated, rightly or wrongly, most people tend to reserve the word "cult" for smaller relgions with certain characteristics. And rather than necessarily passing an opinion, I was more stating what I imagine to be a fact: most people regard the JWs as a highly undesirable cult.

Arguing that you have not and will not start major wars will not change that. Frankly, neither should it. Cults arn't known for world wars, rather they are known for controlling, dictating, and ruining the lifes of individuals and/or their family and friends. And the JWs fit very happliy into that description in far too many instances.

I the starter of this thread, are gay and proudly so. I also fully support Vainandy. So there