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Thread started 10/27/09 11:36am

cborgman

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Health bill to include ‘opt-out’ public option

The Senate will vote on a health care reform bill that will include government-run plans in new insurance exchanges, unless states choose not to offer a public option.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid announced Monday afternoon that he had decided to include a public option, with a state opt-out provision, after consulting with Democratic senators and the White House.

There is “strong consensus to move forward in this direction,” Reid said. The public option is “not a silver bullet,” but it will ensure competition in the health insurance market, he said.

States will have the ability to decide if a government-run plan “works well for them,” he said. If it doesn’t, they can choose not to include one in their insurance exchanges. Under the legislation, uninsured individuals and small businesses could shop for health insurance through Web-based exchanges that would offer standardized, easy-to-compare information about insurance plans that are available in their area.

Opponents of the public option, including many business groups, fear it would undercut private insurance.

President Barack Obama is “pleased that the Senate has decided to include a public option for health coverage, in this case with an allowance for states to opt out,” said Press Secretary Robert Gibbs. ”It has the potential to play an essential role in holding insurance companies accountable through choice and competition.”

Reid noted that Sen. Olympia Snowe, R-Maine, the only Republican who voted for either of the Senate’s two health care bills in committee, opposes the public option. He said he hopes “there will come a time when she sees the wisdom” of supporting the Senate’s health care reform legislation.

Republicans, he said, are “making a big mistake” by not working with Democrats on health care legislation.

Reid has been meeting with the leaders of two Senate committees on merging their health care bills. Several options, including one with the state opt-out public option, will be sent to the Congressional Budget Office for its analysis, he said.

Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-West Virginia, was pleased that Reid included a public option in the bill that will be presented to the full Senate.

“An opt-out clause would protect the public option, and would help secure the necessary votes to pass health care reform, without compromising on the type of coverage or level of affordability,” Rockefeller said


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woot! dancing jig woot!

so, the public option comes back from the dead. it might be a little compromised at the moment, but this is a damn good start!!



.
[Edited 10/27/09 11:37am]

"passing strange"... experience the real
http://www.youtube.com/wa...NFbc7gLzQE
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Reply #1 posted 10/27/09 12:33pm

Dauphin

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Proof that this is all about politics and not about real solutions. Just congressmen/women trying to find a way to buy people's vote by sneaking away more money from them!

The idea is that by having an "opt out" clause, Republicans will have to argue to their constituents that they shouldn't get something other state citizens are getting. In other words, political suicide.

More game playing with a serious issue.

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All Glory To the Hypno-Toad! eek

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Reply #2 posted 10/27/09 2:00pm

cborgman

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Dauphin said:

Proof that this is all about politics and not about real solutions. Just congressmen/women trying to find a way to buy people's vote by sneaking away more money from them!

The idea is that by having an "opt out" clause, Republicans will have to argue to their constituents that they shouldn't get something other state citizens are getting. In other words, political suicide.

More game playing with a serious issue.

if the reps are truly acting out what their constituents want, the right has nothing to worry about.

"passing strange"... experience the real
http://www.youtube.com/wa...NFbc7gLzQE
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Reply #3 posted 10/27/09 8:29pm

Dauphin

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cborgman said:

Dauphin said:

Proof that this is all about politics and not about real solutions. Just congressmen/women trying to find a way to buy people's vote by sneaking away more money from them!

The idea is that by having an "opt out" clause, Republicans will have to argue to their constituents that they shouldn't get something other state citizens are getting. In other words, political suicide.

More game playing with a serious issue.

if the reps are truly acting out what their constituents want, the right has nothing to worry about.



I agree. Health Care reform wouldn't even be on the table if that was the case.

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All Glory To the Hypno-Toad! eek

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Reply #4 posted 10/28/09 2:42pm

OnlyNDaUsa

I have a feeling that the dems are doing this KNOWING that equal protection and full faith and credit laws will be used to force states that do opt out to provided the coverage. So like the lie about told about not covering illegals I am believe that this opt out is a trick.

(as far as illegals are concerned I am okay with them getting the care they need as long as it is followed by a trip home)


*President Obama KNEW, that with few exceptions the courts have ruled that a person in the US could not be denied access to a social program.
[Edited 10/28/09 14:46pm]

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Reply #5 posted 10/29/09 1:22pm

YESWECAN

Do you think the states that opt out won't have to pay for it?
This is all to give the Dems up for election a convenient "no" vote, but everyone will still pay.

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Reply #6 posted 10/29/09 1:31pm

MrSoulpower

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

I have a feeling that the dems are doing this KNOWING that equal protection and full faith and credit laws will be used to force states that do opt out to provided the coverage. So like the lie about told about not covering illegals I am believe that this opt out is a trick.

(as far as illegals are concerned I am okay with them getting the care they need as long as it is followed by a trip home)


*President Obama KNEW, that with few exceptions the courts have ruled that a person in the US could not be denied access to a social program.
[Edited 10/28/09 14:46pm]



Illegal aliens have not and will not be covered by government financed health insurance. Stop the fear mongering. As a legal immigrant myself, I am tired of hearing conservatives lying about illegals allegedly getting free government services. They don't - with the exception of basic education.
No government fund covers doctor's visits, long-term treatment, etc for illegal aliens. The only thing they get is treatment in the Emergency Room, and that's a good thing. Or do you want to turn down dying people at ER just because they don't have a Greencard?

As I said before, being illegal in this country is a tough challenge. You get no handouts - in fact, everything is more expensive. If you can't prove legal residency, you pay much, much more for most services, from car insurance to college tuition.

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Reply #7 posted 10/29/09 1:45pm

Dauphin

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MrSoulpower said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I have a feeling that the dems are doing this KNOWING that equal protection and full faith and credit laws will be used to force states that do opt out to provided the coverage. So like the lie about told about not covering illegals I am believe that this opt out is a trick.

(as far as illegals are concerned I am okay with them getting the care they need as long as it is followed by a trip home)


*President Obama KNEW, that with few exceptions the courts have ruled that a person in the US could not be denied access to a social program.
[Edited 10/28/09 14:46pm]



Illegal aliens have not and will not be covered by government financed health insurance. Stop the fear mongering. As a legal immigrant myself, I am tired of hearing conservatives lying about illegals allegedly getting free government services. They don't - with the exception of basic education.
No government fund covers doctor's visits, long-term treatment, etc for illegal aliens. The only thing they get is treatment in the Emergency Room, and that's a good thing. Or do you want to turn down dying people at ER just because they don't have a Greencard?

As I said before, being illegal in this country is a tough challenge. You get no handouts - in fact, everything is more expensive. If you can't prove legal residency, you pay much, much more for most services, from car insurance to college tuition.


This is not exactly true.

If an illegal goes to the hospital, who pays if the illegal ducks out?

The Hospital.

How does the Hospital recoup that loss...

Not every ER visit is a life or death incident. There's your answer.
[Edited 10/29/09 13:47pm]

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Reply #8 posted 10/29/09 2:14pm

MrSoulpower

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Dauphin said:

MrSoulpower said:




Illegal aliens have not and will not be covered by government financed health insurance. Stop the fear mongering. As a legal immigrant myself, I am tired of hearing conservatives lying about illegals allegedly getting free government services. They don't - with the exception of basic education.
No government fund covers doctor's visits, long-term treatment, etc for illegal aliens. The only thing they get is treatment in the Emergency Room, and that's a good thing. Or do you want to turn down dying people at ER just because they don't have a Greencard?

As I said before, being illegal in this country is a tough challenge. You get no handouts - in fact, everything is more expensive. If you can't prove legal residency, you pay much, much more for most services, from car insurance to college tuition.


This is not exactly true.

If an illegal goes to the hospital, who pays if the illegal ducks out?

The Hospital.

How does the Hospital recoup that loss...

Not every ER visit is a life or death incident. There's your answer.
[Edited 10/29/09 13:47pm]


We're talking ER here. It doesn't have to be life threatening to go to ER, but we're not talking about a regular hospital stay here. For that, you'd need a referral from another practitioner.

What do you suggest?
Ask every patient for proof of legal residence and deny him medical treatment if such proof cannot be provided? You know that doctors swear and oath to help people, right? It would also look pretty bad in the eyes of the rest of the world if America, a country that claims to have invented compassion, turns down the sick if they don't have legal resident status.

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Reply #9 posted 10/29/09 2:32pm

OnlyNDaUsa

MrSoulpower said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:

I have a feeling that the dems are doing this KNOWING that equal protection and full faith and credit laws will be used to force states that do opt out to provided the coverage. So like the lie about told about not covering illegals I am believe that this opt out is a trick.

(as far as illegals are concerned I am okay with them getting the care they need as long as it is followed by a trip home)


*President Obama KNEW, that with few exceptions the courts have ruled that a person in the US could not be denied access to a social program.
[Edited 10/28/09 14:46pm]



Illegal aliens have not and will not be covered by government financed health insurance. Stop the fear mongering. As a legal immigrant myself, I am tired of hearing conservatives lying about illegals allegedly getting free government services. They don't - with the exception of basic education.
No government fund covers doctor's visits, long-term treatment, etc for illegal aliens. The only thing they get is treatment in the Emergency Room, and that's a good thing. Or do you want to turn down dying people at ER just because they don't have a Greencard?

As I said before, being illegal in this country is a tough challenge. You get no handouts - in fact, everything is more expensive. If you can't prove legal residency, you pay much, much more for most services, from car insurance to college tuition.


Look at California Proposition 187.

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Reply #10 posted 10/29/09 2:36pm

MrSoulpower

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

MrSoulpower said:




Illegal aliens have not and will not be covered by government financed health insurance. Stop the fear mongering. As a legal immigrant myself, I am tired of hearing conservatives lying about illegals allegedly getting free government services. They don't - with the exception of basic education.
No government fund covers doctor's visits, long-term treatment, etc for illegal aliens. The only thing they get is treatment in the Emergency Room, and that's a good thing. Or do you want to turn down dying people at ER just because they don't have a Greencard?

As I said before, being illegal in this country is a tough challenge. You get no handouts - in fact, everything is more expensive. If you can't prove legal residency, you pay much, much more for most services, from car insurance to college tuition.


Look at California Proposition 187.


What does Prop 187 have to do with this dicussion?
Prop 187 prohibits illegal aliens the use of government services.
That doesn't mean that they got a free pass before. I lived in California in the 1990s, without a Greencard. I know what I'm talking about from personal experience.

Also, a state proposition has nothing to do with federal law.

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Reply #11 posted 10/29/09 2:39pm

OnlyNDaUsa

MrSoulpower said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:



Look at California Proposition 187.


What does Prop 187 have to do with this dicussion?
Prop 187 prohibits illegal aliens the use of government services.
That doesn't mean that they got a free pass before. I lived in California in the 1990s, without a Greencard. I know what I'm talking about from personal experience.

Also, a state proposition has nothing to do with federal law.



the federal court ruled that immigration status could not be used to refuse social services including health services. Obama KNEW this when he lied as said they would not be covered.

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Reply #12 posted 10/29/09 2:45pm

MrSoulpower

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

MrSoulpower said:



What does Prop 187 have to do with this dicussion?
Prop 187 prohibits illegal aliens the use of government services.
That doesn't mean that they got a free pass before. I lived in California in the 1990s, without a Greencard. I know what I'm talking about from personal experience.

Also, a state proposition has nothing to do with federal law.



the federal court ruled that immigration status could not be used to refuse social services including health services. Obama KNEW this when he lied as said they would not be covered.


Read closely. Health services. That is a clear reference to hospitals, especially ER. No illegal immigrant, I repeat, NO illegal immigrant gets free medical treatment outside of hospitals. No practitioner will treat illegals for free, and the government doesn't cover the tab.

You either don't understand this or you lie about Obama lying.

Please provide some proof that illegal aliens commonly receive government funding for health care and other social services that legal residents have to pay for.

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Reply #13 posted 10/29/09 3:28pm

OnlyNDaUsa

MrSoulpower said:


Read closely. Health services. That is a clear reference to hospitals, especially ER. No illegal immigrant, I repeat, NO illegal immigrant gets free medical treatment outside of hospitals. No practitioner will treat illegals for free, and the government doesn't cover the tab.

You either don't understand this or you lie about Obama lying.

Please provide some proof that illegal aliens commonly receive government funding for health care and other social services that legal residents have to pay for.



Proof that something will happen in the future under obama care?

But you will see.

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Reply #14 posted 10/29/09 3:45pm

MrSoulpower

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

MrSoulpower said:


Read closely. Health services. That is a clear reference to hospitals, especially ER. No illegal immigrant, I repeat, NO illegal immigrant gets free medical treatment outside of hospitals. No practitioner will treat illegals for free, and the government doesn't cover the tab.

You either don't understand this or you lie about Obama lying.

Please provide some proof that illegal aliens commonly receive government funding for health care and other social services that legal residents have to pay for.



Proof that something will happen in the future under obama care?

But you will see.


No, proof that illegal aliens will receive free healthcare under the health care bill even though the president said that this won't happen.

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Reply #15 posted 10/29/09 4:08pm

OnlyNDaUsa

MrSoulpower said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:




Proof that something will happen in the future under obama care?

But you will see.


No, proof that illegal aliens will receive free healthcare under the health care bill even though the president said that this won't happen.



so now you want me to prove the future? I gave an example of a case that the federal courts ruled that social services can not be denied base on immigrant status. Under the obama bill the public option WOULD be a social program. Add to that the refusal to ad an ID check and it spells the truth. Immigration status will not be taken into account.

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Reply #16 posted 10/29/09 4:44pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

MrSoulpower said:



No, proof that illegal aliens will receive free healthcare under the health care bill even though the president said that this won't happen.



so now you want me to prove the future? I gave an example of a case that the federal courts ruled that social services can not be denied base on immigrant status. Under the obama bill the public option WOULD be a social program. Add to that the refusal to ad an ID check and it spells the truth. Immigration status will not be taken into account.

well this law is being broken in all kinds of states. Arizona being the primary suspect cuz they deny all social services to illegals.

2009: Mermaids and Dolphins...
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Reply #17 posted 10/29/09 5:03pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

I have a feeling that the dems are doing this KNOWING that equal protection and full faith and credit laws will be used to force states that do opt out to provided the coverage. So like the lie about told about not covering illegals I am believe that this opt out is a trick.

*President Obama KNEW, that with few exceptions the courts have ruled that a person in the US could not be denied access to a social program.


In other words, they are finally playing hardball! biggrin

2009: Mermaids and Dolphins...
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Reply #18 posted 10/29/09 5:31pm

OnlyNDaUsa

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:




so now you want me to prove the future? I gave an example of a case that the federal courts ruled that social services can not be denied base on immigrant status. Under the obama bill the public option WOULD be a social program. Add to that the refusal to ad an ID check and it spells the truth. Immigration status will not be taken into account.

well this law is being broken in all kinds of states. Arizona being the primary suspect cuz they deny all social services to illegals.



well the ACLU ought to look into it. It might be the case were both sides are worried how the decisions would go. I am fine with allowing an illegal to get access to the plan *my opposition to the plan is another issue. The fact it many illegals have jobs and pay taxes, they just uses a stolen social security card. They also spend money so they pay sales tax and part of the money spent goes to pay people that sell, make, and transport said goods and services. They also pay rent on housing which part of which goes to school taxes and other property taxes. So many of them do pay taxes. So if they should be able to take part in the social systems.

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Reply #19 posted 10/29/09 5:33pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:


well this law is being broken in all kinds of states. Arizona being the primary suspect cuz they deny all social services to illegals.



well the ACLU ought to look into it. It might be the case were both sides are worried how the decisions would go. I am fine with allowing an illegal to get access to the plan *my opposition to the plan is another issue. The fact it many illegals have jobs and pay taxes, they just uses a stolen social security card. They also spend money so they pay sales tax and part of the money spent goes to pay people that sell, make, and transport said goods and services. They also pay rent on housing which part of which goes to school taxes and other property taxes. So many of them do pay taxes. So if they should be able to take part in the social systems.

the economy is 70% consumer driven. You know illegals are spending most of their money.

2009: Mermaids and Dolphins...
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Reply #20 posted 10/29/09 5:58pm

OnlyNDaUsa

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:


the economy is 70% consumer driven. You know illegals are spending most of their money.



yup

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Reply #21 posted 10/30/09 5:55am

violetblues

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Jeez-Louise!
Some people's minds are stuck in a rut concerning Mexican immigrants,....

Yes people you are good patriots blah blah blah, but give it a rest! Our world can not revolve around your paranoia that if a Mexican is treated for medical aid or would also somehow benefit in someway from anything we do in our society that we should scrap it.
Cold shower and black coffee, snap out of it.

Somewhere out there is a Mexican enjoying tasty American donuts and it burns you up alive, and its all Obama's fault...snap the fuck out of it!

flag
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Reply #22 posted 10/30/09 7:19am

Dauphin

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MrSoulpower said:

OnlyNDaUsa said:




the federal court ruled that immigration status could not be used to refuse social services including health services. Obama KNEW this when he lied as said they would not be covered.


Read closely. Health services. That is a clear reference to hospitals, especially ER. No illegal immigrant, I repeat, NO illegal immigrant gets free medical treatment outside of hospitals. No practitioner will treat illegals for free, and the government doesn't cover the tab.

You either don't understand this or you lie about Obama lying.

Please provide some proof that illegal aliens commonly receive government funding for health care and other social services that legal residents have to pay for.



I understand what you mean by "no free medical treatment," but there are the thousands of charity supported free clinics. My family routinely volunteers time and money to help these places in the area. From everything to translating so the proper forms can be completed, to PC troubleshooting, to monetary donations, any that can be done helps.

I love helping because I know that I am helping people, and also the regular hospitals from having to incur debt to pass on.

I don't understand why people think that the Government NEEDS to step in on this. Do you remember who the first responders were to the Katrina Disaster were? Local and State Law Enforcement. Then National Private Corporations. Then Private Charities. Eventually the Federal Government caught up.

The Federal Government is the worst option to manage a system designed to deliver quality and timely service!

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Reply #23 posted 10/30/09 8:17am

MrSoulpower

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Dauphin said:


The Federal Government is the worst option to manage a system designed to deliver quality and timely service!


The Federal government is what we make it.
If you think the Federal government is incapable of managing a solid health care system, how do you explain that it works very well in other countries?

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Reply #24 posted 10/30/09 8:25am

OnlyNDaUsa

MrSoulpower said:



The Federal government is what we make it.
If you think the Federal government is incapable of managing a solid health care system, how do you explain that it works very well in other countries?



Except it doesn't.

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Reply #25 posted 10/30/09 8:41am

MrSoulpower

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

MrSoulpower said:



No, proof that illegal aliens will receive free healthcare under the health care bill even though the president said that this won't happen.



so now you want me to prove the future? I gave an example of a case that the federal courts ruled that social services can not be denied base on immigrant status. Under the obama bill the public option WOULD be a social program. Add to that the refusal to ad an ID check and it spells the truth. Immigration status will not be taken into account.


You said that Obama lied when he said that illegal immigrants won't get free health care under the new bill. That's a pretty strong statement, and you have presented nothing to back it up.

Instead, you've started your little political spin machine.

It's true that a Federal Court turned over Prop 187, but the court did not take that step to guarantee illegal immigrants free social services. The court considered Prop 197 unconstitutional, because the the federal government is responsible for setting policy on immigrants (and that includes illegals), not the states. California must now abide by the 1996 federal welfare act, which regulates the benefits immigrants may or may not receive.

I suggest that you have a look at this welfare act ... let me know if you find anything that would grant illegal immigrants free health care or other free social services.

http://www.mrsc.org/Subje...lfare.aspx

Now let's look at some of the benefits legal immigrants are entitled to:

* Legal immigrants are barred from all federal means-tested public benefits for five years after entering the country and barred from SSI and food stamps until citizenship. They are also barred from all federal means-tested public benefits for five years.

If legal immigrants are barred from all these benefits, do you really believe that illegal immigrants are entitled to them? Get real, man.

Now it's getting more interesting:

* Benefits available to immigrants include school lunch and breakfast programs, immunizations, emergency medical services, disaster relief, and others programs that are necessary to protect life and safety as identified by the attorney general, regardless of immigration status.

There you have it. Emergency medical services and other services that apply to life threatening situations, such disaster, etc.

And now let's get it very clear once and for all:

* Illegal immigrants are barred from the following federal public benefits: grants, contracts, loans, licenses, retirement, welfare, health, disability, public or assisted housing, post secondary education, food assistance, and unemployment benefits. States are barred from providing state or locally funded benefits to illegal immigrants unless a state law is enacted granting such authority.

Now, unless President Obama plans to overturn the 1996 Welfare Reform, which he didn't say he would, Illegal immigrants will not receive free health care because the welfare reform act forbids such benefit for illegal immigrants!!

So before you accuse President Obama of lying and before you continue to claim that illegal immigrants will receive free health care under the new health care bill, I suggest that you first educate yourself on the matter instead of repeating misleading, uninformed and simply false Republican talking points!

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Reply #26 posted 10/30/09 8:42am

MrSoulpower

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OnlyNDaUsa said:

MrSoulpower said:



The Federal government is what we make it.
If you think the Federal government is incapable of managing a solid health care system, how do you explain that it works very well in other countries?



Except it doesn't.


It doesn't work in other countries?
What about Sweden? Norway? I'm originally from Germany, and we have fantastic health care. Affordable, speedy and up to the latest standards.

As I wrote in my last post ... educate yourself first, don't just parrot what you hear on the Glenn Beck show.

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Reply #27 posted 10/30/09 10:34am

Dauphin

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MrSoulpower said:

Dauphin said:


The Federal Government is the worst option to manage a system designed to deliver quality and timely service!


The Federal government is what we make it.
If you think the Federal government is incapable of managing a solid health care system, how do you explain that it works very well in other countries?


Incapable? Never said that. Worst option? Yup.

The United States government has the dollar. The world relies on the dollar to back much of the world economy.

If the United States begins taking over programs and services, they're going to get in the red more and more. But the govt only can spend what it takes from it's citizens. They already plan deficit budgets (spending money before they actually have it). So how can they add on something like this? More taxes. What if they can't get enough from taxes? They print more money. Printing more money means a weaker dollar. A weaker dollar means a weaker global economy as markets shift.

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Reply #28 posted 10/30/09 10:49am

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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Dauphin said:

MrSoulpower said:



The Federal government is what we make it.
If you think the Federal government is incapable of managing a solid health care system, how do you explain that it works very well in other countries?


Incapable? Never said that. Worst option? Yup.

The United States government has the dollar. The world relies on the dollar to back much of the world economy.

If the United States begins taking over programs and services, they're going to get in the red more and more. But the govt only can spend what it takes from it's citizens. They already plan deficit budgets (spending money before they actually have it). So how can they add on something like this? More taxes. What if they can't get enough from taxes? They print more money. Printing more money means a weaker dollar. A weaker dollar means a weaker global economy as markets shift.


Why does this have to be the gameplan? How about us divesting ourselves from our huge commitment to the miltary industrial complex? That would free us up to have healthcare and more.

2009: Mermaids and Dolphins...
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Reply #29 posted 10/30/09 10:53am

MrSoulpower

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Dauphin said:

MrSoulpower said:



The Federal government is what we make it.
If you think the Federal government is incapable of managing a solid health care system, how do you explain that it works very well in other countries?


Incapable? Never said that. Worst option? Yup.

The United States government has the dollar. The world relies on the dollar to back much of the world economy.

If the United States begins taking over programs and services, they're going to get in the red more and more. But the govt only can spend what it takes from it's citizens. They already plan deficit budgets (spending money before they actually have it). So how can they add on something like this? More taxes. What if they can't get enough from taxes? They print more money. Printing more money means a weaker dollar. A weaker dollar means a weaker global economy as markets shift.


Do you have a problem with defense spending?
If not, don't you think that public health is equally important?
I have no problem with paying higher taxes, if what I pay goes into a modernized public health care system.

I have good health insurance by American standards. This year, for the first time, I opened a flexible spending account, because it gives me tax credits. The account started in June and I put $800 in it ... having good insurance, I figured that this would get me through the year. Now it's November, and I already ran out of the $800. This means that in spite of my good insurance plan, which cost me about $500 a month, I paid an additional $800 on top for co-pay and medicine. That means that since June, I have invested $3,800 for my family's health care, and none of us had a serious condition or a hospital stay.

In Germany, I paid much less than $500 per month, medicine was free and I had a $15 co-pay per doctor per every three months. There was no co-pay for hospital stays and any other treatments, and the care I got was equal to what I get here.

Just something to think about. If Germany can do it, why can't America?

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