Transgendered teacher files complaint over firing

So being transgender is against catholic teachings? How?

God DAMN there are a lot of dumb motherfuckers walking around! - George Carlin
Stalkerwomen of the world unite in delusion!!!!!

Vendetta1 said:

It's a Catholic School. What did you expect?

People seem to find it easier to accept dress codes at Nightclubs or restaurants than moral codes at a Catholic School

You owe me $5. I caught the big fish....again

A religious based organization should have the right to hire or fire based on following or not following the church guidelines. Even if they are not specifically stated. But being gay is an obvious violation of most Christan dogma. I mean doctrine. Also if he has she has had her reproduction ability changed that is also against the church's teachings. (for some reason the Pope wants Catholics to have so many kids that they say poor I guess?)

Now the issue of public funding hurts the school's case. As they choose to accept public money they gave up some of their rights. Just like the States and Local public Schools have to accept federal regulation and oversight or risk losing federal funds. So they may well, and maybe rightfully so, lose this case.

So it seems that the school can be forced to PAY her to for her services even if she never comes to work. Or at least give her payment to cover enough time for her to find another job that pays the same.

meow85 said:

An Edmonton teacher has filed a complaint with the Alberta Human Rights Commission after he was fired by a Catholic school board for telling it he was changing his gender.

Jan Buterman, who worked as a substitute teacher for about six months, was removed from the Greater St. Albert Catholic school board's substitute teacher list last year.

Born as a woman, Buterman is transitioning to become a man and told the school board he had gender identity disorder.

In a letter, Steve Bayus, deputy superintendent of schools for Greater St. Albert, wrote that in discussions with the archbishop of the Edmonton diocese, it was their view that "the teaching of the Catholic Church is that persons cannot change their gender. One's gender is considered what God created us to be."

Bayus said the board, which oversees public Catholic schools in several communities north of Edmonton, purposely hires teaching staff who are "models and witnesses to the teachings of the Catholic Church.

"Since you made a personal choice to change your gender, which is contrary to Catholic teachings, we have had to remove you from the substitute teacher list," Bayus wrote.

"Your gender change is not aligned with the teachings of the church and would create confusion and complexity with students and parents as a model and witness to Catholic faith values."

Bayus notes that Buterman has "served the schools well" as a substitute teacher.

The teachers union has lodged the complaint on Buterman's behalf with the human rights commission.

Buterman is currently out of work and money and living in social housing while he waits for a resolution.

"I do hope that this challenge at least gets Canadians thinking about that," he said.

In 1991, Alberta teacher Delwin Vriend was fired from his job at a Christian college because he was gay.

That case went all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada, where Vriend won.

source: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/...alcomments


Thoughts? From what I've been able to garner of the story, it sounds as if he has a legitimate complaint of discrimination considering the Greater St. Albert Catholic school board is apparently at least in part publicly funded.


And as an aside: kudos to CBC for using the appropriate gender pronoun.

chiltonmusic said:

meow85 said:

source: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/...alcomments


Thoughts? From what I've been able to garner of the story, it sounds as if he has a legitimate complaint of discrimination considering the Greater St. Albert Catholic school board is apparently at least in part publicly funded.


And as an aside: kudos to CBC for using the appropriate gender pronoun.

Hello Catholic? And I don't know why people think that church's or church organizations that accept public money have to throw the bible out because of it. Read the constitution the God is mentioned all through out. There is no such thing as separation of church and state.

I think there are plenty of other schools this man or whatever can go and sub in. So no I don't think he has a legitimate complaint.

PANDURITO said:

It's a Catholic School. What did you expect?

People seem to find it easier to accept dress codes at Nightclubs or restaurants than moral codes at a Catholic School

chiltonmusic said:

meow85 said:

source: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/...alcomments


Thoughts? From what I've been able to garner of the story, it sounds as if he has a legitimate complaint of discrimination considering the Greater St. Albert Catholic school board is apparently at least in part publicly funded.


And as an aside: kudos to CBC for using the appropriate gender pronoun.

Hello Catholic? And I don't know why people think that church's or church organizations that accept public money have to throw the bible out because of it. Read the constitution the God is mentioned all through out. There is no such thing as separation of church and state.

I think there are plenty of other schools this man or whatever can go and sub in. So no I don't think he has a legitimate complaint.

OnlyNDaUsa said:

meow85 said:

You owe me $5. I caught the big fish....again

I made it up

You owe me $5. I caught the big fish....again

PANDURITO said:

meow85 said:

Besides, where in the Bible, or in Catholic doctrine, does it bar sex reassignment?

Leviticus 25:83
"Thou shalt not cut your penis"

OnlyNDaUsa said:

chiltonmusic said:

meow85 said:

source: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/...alcomments


Thoughts? From what I've been able to garner of the story, it sounds as if he has a legitimate complaint of discrimination considering the Greater St. Albert Catholic school board is apparently at least in part publicly funded.


And as an aside: kudos to CBC for using the appropriate gender pronoun.

Hello Catholic? And I don't know why people think that church's or church organizations that accept public money have to throw the bible out because of it. Read the constitution the God is mentioned all through out. There is no such thing as separation of church and state.

I think there are plenty of other schools this man or whatever can go and sub in. So no I don't think he has a legitimate complaint.

SUPRMAN said:

meow85 said:

PANDURITO said:

It's a Catholic School. What did you expect?

People seem to find it easier to accept dress codes at Nightclubs or restaurants than moral codes at a Catholic School

It's publicly funded, and as such is supposed to be subject to the same anti-discrimination codes regular school boards are.

Besides, where in the Bible, or in Catholic doctrine, does it bar sex reassignment?

God DAMN there are a lot of dumb motherfuckers walking around! - George Carlin
Stalkerwomen of the world unite in delusion!!!!!

According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, 2297:

"Except when performed for strictly therapeutic medical reason, directly intended amputations, mutilations, and sterilizations performed on innocent persons are against the moral law." And this issues, in part, from Paul's teaching in 1 Cor. 6:19: "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own."

Gender reassignment surgery would be frowned upon by the Catholic Church as a matter of course. The church would just as soon prescribe means by which a person's identified sex is brought into line with their assigned sex (a psychological exercise), rather than vice versa. I'm aware certain local parishes, if not dioceses, around the world take a pastorally more nuanced approach, though, based on specific cases.

Thing is, the Catholic Church is not a purveyor of medicine, and Catholic school boards in Canada that are publicly funded are obliged to some extent to non-discriminatory employment policy vis-a-vis the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, which since 1978 protects persons on the grounds of race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age, sex, marital status, family status, pardoned conviction, disability, and sexual orientation. I'm not aware to what extent a discrimination challenge has been brought to Canadian courts by a transgendered person, but under current federal law the employee in question would be covered from discrimination either as a female or male, and if he can attribute the necessity of his surgery to a previously diagnosable gender identity disorder, he could possibly be covered under disability as well. Also, the somewhat related (yet different) precedent around discrimination by a religious school board based on sexual orientation has been ruled in favor of the employee.

Should be an interesting case to watch, and a challenge to Canadian Catholic school boards to consider how it is they can have their cake, eat it too... and expect folk, the majority of whom aren't Catholic, to still give them their tax money.
[Edited 10/3/09 22:09pm]

Lammastide said:

God DAMN there are a lot of dumb motherfuckers walking around! - George Carlin
Stalkerwomen of the world unite in delusion!!!!!

Vendetta1 said:

Lammastide said:

PANDURITO said:

Leviticus 25:83
"Thou shalt not cut your penis"

You jest, but as an aside, there is an Old Testament admonition against males with genital mutilations entering the Jerusalem Temple.

No one whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off shall be admitted to the assembly of the LORD. -Deut 23:1

You owe me $5. I caught the big fish....again

Lammastide said:

You owe me $5. I caught the big fish....again

PANDURITO said:

Lammastide said:

You jest, but as an aside, there is an Old Testament admonition against males with genital mutilations entering the Jerusalem Temple.

No one whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off shall be admitted to the assembly of the LORD. -Deut 23:1

I did because they're asking for proof ONLY because they think there isn't any.
If you pointed 5 places in the Bible where they're against sex reassignment they'd say: "yeah, so what?"

God DAMN there are a lot of dumb motherfuckers walking around! - George Carlin
Stalkerwomen of the world unite in delusion!!!!!

Vendetta1 said:

You owe me $5. I caught the big fish....again

PANDURITO said:

Vendetta1 said:

I asked because I was genuinely curious because I had never heard that before.

You asked because you genuinely wanted to know what does the Bible say about sex reassingnment?

This is much worse that I thought.
Aren't you interested in knowing what the Bible says about iPods and LCDs too?
Genuinely?

God DAMN there are a lot of dumb motherfuckers walking around! - George Carlin
Stalkerwomen of the world unite in delusion!!!!!

Lammastide said:

Lammastide said:

ehuffnsd said:

Lammastide said:

ehuffnsd said:

That's why Origen was never sainted he castrated himself.


Deuteronomy 22:5
5 A woman must not wear men’s clothing, nor a man wear women’s clothing, for the Lord your God detests anyone who does this.

You of all people would remember this one!

meow85 said:

An Edmonton teacher has filed a complaint with the Alberta Human Rights Commission after he was fired by a Catholic school board for telling it he was changing his gender.

Jan Buterman, who worked as a substitute teacher for about six months, was removed from the Greater St. Albert Catholic school board's substitute teacher list last year.

Born as a woman, Buterman is transitioning to become a man and told the school board he had gender identity disorder.

In a letter, Steve Bayus, deputy superintendent of schools for Greater St. Albert, wrote that in discussions with the archbishop of the Edmonton diocese, it was their view that "the teaching of the Catholic Church is that persons cannot change their gender. One's gender is considered what God created us to be."

Bayus said the board, which oversees public Catholic schools in several communities north of Edmonton, purposely hires teaching staff who are "models and witnesses to the teachings of the Catholic Church.

"Since you made a personal choice to change your gender, which is contrary to Catholic teachings, we have had to remove you from the substitute teacher list," Bayus wrote.

"Your gender change is not aligned with the teachings of the church and would create confusion and complexity with students and parents as a model and witness to Catholic faith values."

Bayus notes that Buterman has "served the schools well" as a substitute teacher.

The teachers union has lodged the complaint on Buterman's behalf with the human rights commission.

Buterman is currently out of work and money and living in social housing while he waits for a resolution.

"I do hope that this challenge at least gets Canadians thinking about that," he said.

In 1991, Alberta teacher Delwin Vriend was fired from his job at a Christian college because he was gay.

That case went all the way to the Supreme Court of Canada, where Vriend won.

source: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/...alcomments


Thoughts? From what I've been able to garner of the story, it sounds as if he has a legitimate complaint of discrimination considering the Greater St. Albert Catholic school board is apparently at least in part publicly funded.


And as an aside: kudos to CBC for using the appropriate gender pronoun.