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Thread started 07/13/09 2:11pm

Graycap23

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Budget Deficit Tops $1 Trillion For First Time

INCOMPETENCE.....
WASHINGTON -- Nine months into the fiscal year, the federal deficit has topped $1 trillion for the first time.

The imbalance is intensifying fears about higher interest rates and inflation, and already pressuring the value of the dollar. There's also concern about trying to reverse the deficit -- by reducing government spending or raising taxes -- in the midst of a harsh recession.

The Treasury Department said Monday that the deficit in June totaled $94.3 billion, pushing the total since the budget year started in October to nearly $1.1 trillion.

The deficit has been propelled by the huge sum the government has spent to combat the recession and financial crisis, combined with a sharp decline in tax revenues. Paying for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan also is a major factor.

America's soaring deficits are making Chinese and other foreign buyers of U.S. debt nervous, which could make them reluctant lenders down the road. It could force the Treasury Department to pay higher interest rates to make U.S. debt attractive longer-term.

"These are mind boggling numbers," said Sung Won Sohn, an economist at the Smith School of Business at California State University. "Our foreign investors from China and elsewhere are starting to have concerns about not only the value of the dollar but how safe their investments will be in the long run."

Government spending is on the rise to address the worst financial crisis since the Great Depression of the 1930s and an unemployment rate that has climbed to 9.5 percent.

Congress already approved a $700 billion financial bailout and a $787 billion economic stimulus package to try and jump-start a recovery, and there is growing talk among some Obama administration officials that a second round of stimulus may be necessary.

This has many Republicans and deficit hawks worried that the U.S. could be setting itself up for more financial pain down the road if interest rates and inflation surge. They also are raising alarms about additional spending the administration is proposing, including its plan to reform health care.

President Barack Obama and other administration officials, including Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, have said the U.S. is committed to bringing down the deficits once the country has emerged from the current recession and financial crisis.

The TRUTH.......only exist in 1 form.
The TRUTH.
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Reply #1 posted 07/13/09 2:54pm

SUPRMAN

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Not something we can't handle, but we will have to decide if we want to deal with the pain, to bring down the deficits or if we will inflate our way out of it.
Either way there is pain in our future, which no one wants to accept.

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Reply #2 posted 07/13/09 3:04pm

uPtoWnNY

Graycap23 said:

This has many Republicans and deficit hawks worried that the U.S. could be setting itself up for more financial pain down the road if interest rates and inflation surge. They also are raising alarms about additional spending the administration is proposing, including its plan to reform health care.


I'm with the GOP on this. That health care plan sounds like a disaster in the making.

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Reply #3 posted 07/13/09 4:10pm

savoirfaire

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Brutal.... This will not end well
[Edited 7/13/09 16:10pm]

"We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further." - Richard Dawkins
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Reply #4 posted 07/13/09 8:15pm

SUPRMAN

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Despite the number, we can afford it.
Our bigger problem, is that there is only so much money on the planet to borrow. Others need to borrow for their own needs. We could reach the point of forcing others to raise their interest rates to compete for funds against the U.S.
Our interest rates should be lower because we are more stable and more reliable.

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Reply #5 posted 07/14/09 1:02am

Tremolina

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Graycap23 said:

INCOMPETENCE.....

whose?

The deficit has been propelled by the huge sum the government has spent to combat the recession and financial crisis, combined with a sharp decline in tax revenues. Paying for wars in Iraq and Afghanistan also is a major factor.


hmmm Hmmm... let's see:

financial crisis and recession: Bush's making
sharp decline in tax revenues: Bush's making
costly wars in Afghanistan and Iraq: Bush's making


But let us blame Obama for trying to fix it.

"These are mind boggling numbers," said Sung Won Sohn, an economist at the Smith School of Business at California State University. "Our foreign investors from China and elsewhere are starting to have concerns about not only the value of the dollar but how safe their investments will be in the long run."


"starting to have concerns"? Really, where has this economist been? Or is this just another asshole who only starts to worry and complain when the damage has been done already?


-
[Edited 7/14/09 1:05am]

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Reply #6 posted 07/14/09 1:03am

Tremolina

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SUPRMAN said:

Despite the number, we can afford it.
Our bigger problem, is that there is only so much money on the planet to borrow. Others need to borrow for their own needs. We could reach the point of forcing others to raise their interest rates to compete for funds against the U.S.
Our interest rates should be lower because we are more stable and more reliable.

"more stable and reliable"

lol

than who?

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Reply #7 posted 07/14/09 8:23am

SUPRMAN

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Tremolina said:

SUPRMAN said:

Despite the number, we can afford it.
Our bigger problem, is that there is only so much money on the planet to borrow. Others need to borrow for their own needs. We could reach the point of forcing others to raise their interest rates to compete for funds against the U.S.
Our interest rates should be lower because we are more stable and more reliable.

"more stable and reliable"

lol

than who?

Politically, who is more stable?
We are the gold standard. Or right up there.
Than who? Oh China, Russia, Italy, India, Mexico, etc., that's a pretty long list . . . .

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Reply #8 posted 07/15/09 10:41am

PurpleJedi

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uPtoWnNY said:

Graycap23 said:

This has many Republicans and deficit hawks worried that the U.S. could be setting itself up for more financial pain down the road if interest rates and inflation surge. They also are raising alarms about additional spending the administration is proposing, including its plan to reform health care.


I'm with the GOP on this. That health care plan sounds like a disaster in the making.


I'm actually with you on this.

As much as I hate to side with the GOP on anything, I don't think that this healthcare issue has been properly addressed.

The problem that we have is that healthcare is TOO EXPENSIVE. That's the #1 problem that should be addressed, not extending insurance to the masses.

We need to find a way to make healthcare accessible, not insurance.

If Prince.Org shuts down, I'm writing SLAVE on my left buttcheek!
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Reply #9 posted 07/15/09 12:01pm

uPtoWnNY

PurpleJedi said:

uPtoWnNY said:



I'm with the GOP on this. That health care plan sounds like a disaster in the making.


I'm actually with you on this.

As much as I hate to side with the GOP on anything, I don't think that this healthcare issue has been properly addressed.

The problem that we have is that healthcare is TOO EXPENSIVE. That's the #1 problem that should be addressed, not extending insurance to the masses.

We need to find a way to make healthcare accessible, not insurance.


PREACH!!!

And I don't like the fact that the Dems want this passed within two weeks. This shit has to be re-worked. The price tag of this bill is sick. Haven't the Democrats learned by now? They're digging their own graves for 2010.

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Reply #10 posted 07/15/09 1:07pm

RodeoSchro

Tax revenues are way down, because Bush tanked the economy. It will take a couple years to get them back to where they used to be.

"Guitar" on Leno is the greatest performance in the history of rock ' roll

Second Funkiest White Man in America

flag flag It sure is nice having adults running our government now flag flag
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Reply #11 posted 07/16/09 1:54am

Tremolina

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SUPRMAN said:

Tremolina said:


"more stable and reliable"

lol

than who?

Politically, who is more stable?
We are the gold standard. Or right up there.
Than who? Oh China, Russia, Italy, India, Mexico, etc., that's a pretty long list . . . .


I would assert that in the case of determining interest rates for borrowing financial stability and reliability, not political, is essential.

Considering the economic situation in the US is leading to a massive decrease in tax revenues, while borrowing is skyrocketing after it already skyrocketed for 8 years, interets rates will increase and in a few years the US will be barely able to pay even the lowest interest rates.

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Reply #12 posted 07/16/09 2:00am

Tremolina

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PurpleJedi said:

uPtoWnNY said:



I'm with the GOP on this. That health care plan sounds like a disaster in the making.


I'm actually with you on this.

As much as I hate to side with the GOP on anything, I don't think that this healthcare issue has been properly addressed.

The problem that we have is that healthcare is TOO EXPENSIVE. That's the #1 problem that should be addressed, not extending insurance to the masses.

We need to find a way to make healthcare accessible, not insurance.



Uhm... the only way to make healthcare accesible is by insurance. Only the super rich can afford to not be insured and just pull their wallets whenever they need medical help.

Considering 50 million Americans are uninsured and many of those are regular middle class families, you are basically living in a third world country when it comes to health care. Simply not accesible for the masses.

Healthcare further is mainly not affordable because doctors, specialists and pharmaceutical companies make way too much money off people's health problems. Those people shouldn't and don't deserve to make millions a year.

That's the real problem why it is so expensive and why so many can't get basic health care, which by all means is fundamental human right.

But not in the US: land of the greedy and fuck you if you have to rot and die on the streets because I want to make my millions.


--
[Edited 7/16/09 2:02am]

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Reply #13 posted 07/16/09 9:26am

angel345

First time? I thought it has hit in the trillions before hmmm

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Reply #14 posted 07/16/09 9:46am

Graycap23

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angel345 said:

First time? I thought it has hit in the trillions before hmmm

Single budget year.

The TRUTH.......only exist in 1 form.
The TRUTH.
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Reply #15 posted 07/16/09 10:14am

PurpleJedi

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Tremolina said:

PurpleJedi said:



I'm actually with you on this.

As much as I hate to side with the GOP on anything, I don't think that this healthcare issue has been properly addressed.

The problem that we have is that healthcare is TOO EXPENSIVE. That's the #1 problem that should be addressed, not extending insurance to the masses.

We need to find a way to make healthcare accessible, not insurance.



Uhm... the only way to make healthcare accesible is by insurance. Only the super rich can afford to not be insured and just pull their wallets whenever they need medical help.

Considering 50 million Americans are uninsured and many of those are regular middle class families, you are basically living in a third world country when it comes to health care. Simply not accesible for the masses.

Healthcare further is mainly not affordable because doctors, specialists and pharmaceutical companies make way too much money off people's health problems. Those people shouldn't and don't deserve to make millions a year.

That's the real problem why it is so expensive and why so many can't get basic health care, which by all means is fundamental human right.


But not in the US: land of the greedy and fuck you if you have to rot and die on the streets because I want to make my millions.



Eureka-!
That was my point.
It doesn't do me a damned lick of good (as a middle-class American) for insurance to be mandated for the whole entire country...when I can barely afford the insurance I have right now!!!

There was a time when doctors became doctors to heal the sick. Nowadays it's all about the BMW's and McMansions. When's the last time a doctor actually tried to "heal" you, as opposed to prescribing a bottle of pills?

Can the masses gain access to healthcare without insurance? Absolutely. Fidel Castro did it. But - as you already pointed out - America is all about the $$$ so we can just forget about government clinics here.

I don't claim to know what the answer to this problem is. I believe that it's a complicated matter that will require a complicated solution. Not just more insurance to make the insurance companies that much more rich.

If Prince.Org shuts down, I'm writing SLAVE on my left buttcheek!
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Reply #16 posted 07/16/09 10:56am

angel345

PurpleJedi said:

Tremolina said:




Uhm... the only way to make healthcare accesible is by insurance. Only the super rich can afford to not be insured and just pull their wallets whenever they need medical help.

Considering 50 million Americans are uninsured and many of those are regular middle class families, you are basically living in a third world country when it comes to health care. Simply not accesible for the masses.

Healthcare further is mainly not affordable because doctors, specialists and pharmaceutical companies make way too much money off people's health problems. Those people shouldn't and don't deserve to make millions a year.

That's the real problem why it is so expensive and why so many can't get basic health care, which by all means is fundamental human right.


But not in the US: land of the greedy and fuck you if you have to rot and die on the streets because I want to make my millions.



Eureka-!
That was my point.
It doesn't do me a damned lick of good (as a middle-class American) for insurance to be mandated for the whole entire country...when I can barely afford the insurance I have right now!!!

There was a time when doctors became doctors to heal the sick. Nowadays it's all about the BMW's and McMansions. When's the last time a doctor actually tried to "heal" you, as opposed to prescribing a bottle of pills?
Can the masses gain access to healthcare without insurance? Absolutely. Fidel Castro did it. But - as you already pointed out - America is all about the $$$ so we can just forget about government clinics here.

I don't claim to know what the answer to this problem is. I believe that it's a complicated matter that will require a complicated solution. Not just more insurance to make the insurance companies that much more rich.

And to think of those watered down version pills they prescribed to you and you keep coming back. Yes, it's all about the mighty dollar.

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Reply #17 posted 07/16/09 11:15am

violetblues

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PurpleJedi said:

Tremolina said:




Uhm... the only way to make healthcare accesible is by insurance. Only the super rich can afford to not be insured and just pull their wallets whenever they need medical help.

Considering 50 million Americans are uninsured and many of those are regular middle class families, you are basically living in a third world country when it comes to health care. Simply not accesible for the masses.

Healthcare further is mainly not affordable because doctors, specialists and pharmaceutical companies make way too much money off people's health problems. Those people shouldn't and don't deserve to make millions a year.

That's the real problem why it is so expensive and why so many can't get basic health care, which by all means is fundamental human right.


But not in the US: land of the greedy and fuck you if you have to rot and die on the streets because I want to make my millions.



Eureka-!
That was my point.
It doesn't do me a damned lick of good (as a middle-class American) for insurance to be mandated for the whole entire country...when I can barely afford the insurance I have right now!!!

There was a time when doctors became doctors to heal the sick. Nowadays it's all about the BMW's and McMansions. When's the last time a doctor actually tried to "heal" you, as opposed to prescribing a bottle of pills?

Can the masses gain access to healthcare without insurance? Absolutely. Fidel Castro did it. But - as you already pointed out - America is all about the $$$ so we can just forget about government clinics here.

I don't claim to know what the answer to this problem is. I believe that it's a complicated matter that will require a complicated solution. Not just more insurance to make the insurance companies that much more rich.



You mentioned Fidel, So you’re siding with the republicans on this and mention Fidel as a success story too?

I don’t think the republicans will like your reasoning too much. lol

Status quo, socialism, or something in between, I think the Dems plan is trying to be that something in between.

flag
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Reply #18 posted 07/16/09 5:28pm

SUPRMAN

avatar

Tremolina said:

PurpleJedi said:



I'm actually with you on this.

As much as I hate to side with the GOP on anything, I don't think that this healthcare issue has been properly addressed.

The problem that we have is that healthcare is TOO EXPENSIVE. That's the #1 problem that should be addressed, not extending insurance to the masses.

We need to find a way to make healthcare accessible, not insurance.



Uhm... the only way to make healthcare accesible is by insurance. Only the super rich can afford to not be insured and just pull their wallets whenever they need medical help.

Considering 50 million Americans are uninsured and many of those are regular middle class families, you are basically living in a third world country when it comes to health care. Simply not accesible for the masses.

Healthcare further is mainly not affordable because doctors, specialists and pharmaceutical companies make way too much money off people's health problems. Those people shouldn't and don't deserve to make millions a year.

That's the real problem why it is so expensive and why so many can't get basic health care, which by all means is fundamental human right.

But not in the US: land of the greedy and fuck you if you have to rot and die on the streets because I want to make my millions.


--
[Edited 7/16/09 2:02am]


Really? And how do you come to that conclusion?
Sure they do if they can command it.

Insurance is also not the only way to make healthcare affordable. Nationalization would also make it affordable. The money would just be redirected from insurers, pharma's etc.

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Reply #19 posted 07/17/09 12:04am

Tremolina

avatar

PurpleJedi said:

Tremolina said:




Uhm... the only way to make healthcare accesible is by insurance. Only the super rich can afford to not be insured and just pull their wallets whenever they need medical help.

Considering 50 million Americans are uninsured and many of those are regular middle class families, you are basically living in a third world country when it comes to health care. Simply not accesible for the masses.

Healthcare further is mainly not affordable because doctors, specialists and pharmaceutical companies make way too much money off people's health problems. Those people shouldn't and don't deserve to make millions a year.

That's the real problem why it is so expensive and why so many can't get basic health care, which by all means is fundamental human right.


But not in the US: land of the greedy and fuck you if you have to rot and die on the streets because I want to make my millions.



Eureka-!
That was my point.
It doesn't do me a damned lick of good (as a middle-class American) for insurance to be mandated for the whole entire country...when I can barely afford the insurance I have right now!!!

There was a time when doctors became doctors to heal the sick. Nowadays it's all about the BMW's and McMansions. When's the last time a doctor actually tried to "heal" you, as opposed to prescribing a bottle of pills?

Can the masses gain access to healthcare without insurance? Absolutely. Fidel Castro did it. But - as you already pointed out - America is all about the $$$ so we can just forget about government clinics here.

I don't claim to know what the answer to this problem is. I believe that it's a complicated matter that will require a complicated solution. Not just more insurance to make the insurance companies that much more rich.



You do know.

For starters, cap the incomes of these so called doctors and force the pharmaceutical companies to lower thier prices.

Health care is no place for greed!!

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Reply #20 posted 07/17/09 12:06am

Tremolina

avatar

SUPRMAN said:

Tremolina said:




Uhm... the only way to make healthcare accesible is by insurance. Only the super rich can afford to not be insured and just pull their wallets whenever they need medical help.

Considering 50 million Americans are uninsured and many of those are regular middle class families, you are basically living in a third world country when it comes to health care. Simply not accesible for the masses.

Healthcare further is mainly not affordable because doctors, specialists and pharmaceutical companies make way too much money off people's health problems. Those people shouldn't and don't deserve to make millions a year.

That's the real problem why it is so expensive and why so many can't get basic health care, which by all means is fundamental human right.

But not in the US: land of the greedy and fuck you if you have to rot and die on the streets because I want to make my millions.


--
[Edited 7/16/09 2:02am]


Really? And how do you come to that conclusion?
Sure they do if they can command it.

Insurance is also not the only way to make healthcare affordable. Nationalization would also make it affordable. The money would just be redirected from insurers, pharma's etc.

Nationalisation? Please...

Sure you think these so called doctors should be able to make shitloads of money.

Thta's no suprise.

But that system of greed you support, even in the case of people's health, has proven not to work.

It is in fact the exact cause of the problems.

But you go and keep on defending failure.

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Reply #21 posted 07/17/09 12:08am

Tremolina

avatar

violetblues said:

PurpleJedi said:



Eureka-!
That was my point.
It doesn't do me a damned lick of good (as a middle-class American) for insurance to be mandated for the whole entire country...when I can barely afford the insurance I have right now!!!

There was a time when doctors became doctors to heal the sick. Nowadays it's all about the BMW's and McMansions. When's the last time a doctor actually tried to "heal" you, as opposed to prescribing a bottle of pills?

Can the masses gain access to healthcare without insurance? Absolutely. Fidel Castro did it. But - as you already pointed out - America is all about the $$$ so we can just forget about government clinics here.

I don't claim to know what the answer to this problem is. I believe that it's a complicated matter that will require a complicated solution. Not just more insurance to make the insurance companies that much more rich.



You mentioned Fidel, So you’re siding with the republicans on this and mention Fidel as a success story too?

I don’t think the republicans will like your reasoning too much. lol

Status quo, socialism, or something in between, I think the Dems plan is trying to be that something in between.


Who gives a shit what those incompetent, hateful, powerhungry, greedy bastards
have to say?

In 8 years they have shown to be nothing but a bunch of total failures. Fuck'em, their lies and their failed ideologies.

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Reply #22 posted 07/17/09 7:30pm

SUPRMAN

avatar

Tremolina said:

SUPRMAN said:



Really? And how do you come to that conclusion?
Sure they do if they can command it.

Insurance is also not the only way to make healthcare affordable. Nationalization would also make it affordable. The money would just be redirected from insurers, pharma's etc.

Nationalisation? Please...

Sure you think these so called doctors should be able to make shitloads of money.

Thta's no suprise.

But that system of greed you support, even in the case of people's health, has proven not to work.

It is in fact the exact cause of the problems.

But you go and keep on defending failure.


How is it greed if people are giving it to them? Apparently they are EARNING it.
And of course, those fee have to pay for the business and the staff and equipment,and on yeah the trophy wife, house and cars, so what? Stop hatin.' lol

I think the bigger problem is that medical treatment has a status attached to it that would diminish in a nationalized health care world.

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Reply #23 posted 07/17/09 8:28pm

eugnj420

Tremolina said:

PurpleJedi said:



I'm actually with you on this.

As much as I hate to side with the GOP on anything, I don't think that this healthcare issue has been properly addressed.

The problem that we have is that healthcare is TOO EXPENSIVE. That's the #1 problem that should be addressed, not extending insurance to the masses.

We need to find a way to make healthcare accessible, not insurance.



Uhm... the only way to make healthcare accesible is by insurance. Only the super rich can afford to not be insured and just pull their wallets whenever they need medical help.

Considering 50 million Americans are uninsured and many of those are regular middle class families, you are basically living in a third world country when it comes to health care. Simply not accesible for the masses.

Healthcare further is mainly not affordable because doctors, specialists and pharmaceutical companies make way too much money off people's health problems. Those people shouldn't and don't deserve to make millions a year.

That's the real problem why it is so expensive and why so many can't get basic health care, which by all means is fundamental human right.

But not in the US: land of the greedy and fuck you if you have to rot and die on the streets because I want to make my millions.


--
[Edited 7/16/09 2:02am]


Oh, come now. In many neighborhoods, it's fuck you if you have to rot and die on the streets because I want your sneakers, or your wearing a different hankie color than me.
At least killing someone over "millions" seems to have a point.

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Reply #24 posted 07/17/09 9:44pm

SUPRMAN

avatar

Tremolina said:

SUPRMAN said:


Politically, who is more stable?
We are the gold standard. Or right up there.
Than who? Oh China, Russia, Italy, India, Mexico, etc., that's a pretty long list . . . .


I would assert that in the case of determining interest rates for borrowing financial stability and reliability, not political, is essential.

Considering the economic situation in the US is leading to a massive decrease in tax revenues, while borrowing is skyrocketing after it already skyrocketed for 8 years, interets rates will increase and in a few years the US will be barely able to pay even the lowest interest rates.

No. Interest rates aren't going to rise as long as demand exceeds supply. We can afford to borrow more, the problem is other countries get squeezed trying to raise cash we we hoover it up from China which has more dollars than it knows what to do with, except send to the U.S. . . .
[Edited 7/17/09 21:45pm]

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Reply #25 posted 07/19/09 10:00pm

PurpleJedi

avatar

violetblues said:

PurpleJedi said:



Eureka-!
That was my point.
It doesn't do me a damned lick of good (as a middle-class American) for insurance to be mandated for the whole entire country...when I can barely afford the insurance I have right now!!!

There was a time when doctors became doctors to heal the sick. Nowadays it's all about the BMW's and McMansions. When's the last time a doctor actually tried to "heal" you, as opposed to prescribing a bottle of pills?

Can the masses gain access to healthcare without insurance? Absolutely. Fidel Castro did it. But - as you already pointed out - America is all about the $$$ so we can just forget about government clinics here.

I don't claim to know what the answer to this problem is. I believe that it's a complicated matter that will require a complicated solution. Not just more insurance to make the insurance companies that much more rich.



You mentioned Fidel, So you’re siding with the republicans on this and mention Fidel as a success story too?

I don’t think the republicans will like your reasoning too much. lol

Status quo, socialism, or something in between, I think the Dems plan is trying to be that something in between.


shrug


The fact of the matter is that - before the fall of Cuba's #1 financier - Cuba had THE lowest rate of infant mortality in all of Latin America and Cuban doctors were much sought-after.

Now, I do realize that the United States is a leader in medicine...but (God forbid) any one of us ever actually need one of those specialized brain surgeons or heart specialists...we are at the mercy of whatever HMO we've been making wealthy through extravagant monthly payments.

I'll give you an example; about 7 years ago, my daughter (2 at the time) developed a grapefruit-sized lump on the side of her throat. FREAKED US OUT. Took her to the E.R. for a torture-fest at the local hospital. Finally, after 2 days of tests and proddings and what-have-you, she was diagnosed with Lymphangioma (Cystic Hygroma). Apparently she was born with it, but she was a chubby baby and the cyst was small so it went unnoticed until she caught an illness and it became infected.

I'll spare you the finite details on the nightmare that my wife and I went through for about a month thereafter. Needless to say, we wound up in NYC at a specialist affiliated with NYU Medical Center to try to spare her the route of surgery that would have removed the cyst but left her with a partially paralyzed face. The NYU specialist was conducting research with a Japanese drug that was still not approved in the USA, but had been used successfully in Japan and elsewhere. However, my daughter's condition was mild (relative to other cases) so she was not a viable candidate for this program. If we wanted to have this done, we would need to travel to Texas or something like that and pay for it out of pocket. So on top of all that we were going through, we now had to decide whether we sell the house, the car, and most of our meager possessions to do this, or have the insurance-approved surgery that would most likely disfigure her face.

THANKFULLY, my daughter's own system broke down the cyst (to the amazement of all the doctors involved) and no surgery was required. My mom still reminds me that she owes a vowed pilgrimage to St. Patrick's Cathedral for this miracle. Today, the only reminder of this ordeal is a blueberry-sized lump behind her right ear that looks like a swollen bruise.

I don't recall exactly, but I know that the insurance company paid out a couple of thousand dollars for the hospital stay, the x-rays, the cat-scans, the MRI's, the anesthesiologist, etc., etc., etc., - and yet not only did they not really do her any GOOD, but I had to do my own research on-line to even become aware of that Japanese drug that - had it been her only recourse - WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN COVERED BY INSURANCE!!!

Long-winded response, I know, but I'm hoping that you see where I come from with the "insurance" bit. There are real-life situations WORSE than my experience being played out on a daily basis in this country. One of the main (albeit neglected by the media) reasons for home foreclosures is MEDICAL BANKRUPTCY. People do sometimes need procedures and medicines that INSURANCE will not cover and leads to lives being thrown into dissarray.

I'm not even touching on how expensive insurance is to being with!!!!

More insurance for more people is not the answer that we need urgently.

If Prince.Org shuts down, I'm writing SLAVE on my left buttcheek!
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Reply #26 posted 07/20/09 1:18am

Tremolina

avatar

SUPRMAN said:

Tremolina said:


Nationalisation? Please...

Sure you think these so called doctors should be able to make shitloads of money.

Thta's no suprise.

But that system of greed you support, even in the case of people's health, has proven not to work.

It is in fact the exact cause of the problems.

But you go and keep on defending failure.


How is it greed if people are giving it to them? Apparently they are EARNING it.
And of course, those fee have to pay for the business and the staff and equipment,and on yeah the trophy wife, house and cars, so what? Stop hatin.' lol

I think the bigger problem is that medical treatment has a status attached to it that would diminish in a nationalized health care world.

When people don't have another option to get better than to pay doctors the millions they are demanding, because they are sick, then those doctors don't earn it.

Doctors main goal should be to heal people, no to make money off their backs.

Fact of the matter is that it has become all about the $ and that's a sickness of itself. Health shouldn't be about money.

--
[Edited 7/20/09 1:19am]

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Reply #27 posted 07/20/09 10:24am

SUPRMAN

avatar

Tremolina said:

SUPRMAN said:



How is it greed if people are giving it to them? Apparently they are EARNING it.
And of course, those fee have to pay for the business and the staff and equipment,and on yeah the trophy wife, house and cars, so what? Stop hatin.' lol

I think the bigger problem is that medical treatment has a status attached to it that would diminish in a nationalized health care world.

When people don't have another option to get better than to pay doctors the millions they are demanding, because they are sick, then those doctors don't earn it.

Doctors main goal should be to heal people, no to make money off their backs.

Fact of the matter is that it has become all about the $ and that's a sickness of itself. Health shouldn't be about money.

--
[Edited 7/20/09 1:19am]


Health shouldn't be about money but if that's the case, then improve diet, housing and education which would improve health.

Doctor's don't make millions from people going to the emergency room. Doctors make the big bucks from elective procedures, most of which insurance doesn't cover. Specialists make money because there are fewer of them and the best are always in demand.

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Reply #28 posted 07/20/09 10:34am

thepope2the9s

avatar

Tremolina said:

violetblues said:




You mentioned Fidel, So you’re siding with the republicans on this and mention Fidel as a success story too?

I don’t think the republicans will like your reasoning too much. lol

Status quo, socialism, or something in between, I think the Dems plan is trying to be that something in between.


Who gives a shit what those incompetent, hateful, powerhungry, greedy bastards
have to say?

In 8 years they have shown to be nothing but a bunch of total failures. Fuck'em, their lies and their failed ideologies.



Yeah, cuz we all know the democrats are much more competent and truthful!

"It is the system of nationalist ndividualism that has to go...Countless people...will hate the new world order....and will die protesting against it." HG Wells
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Reply #29 posted 07/21/09 7:02am

Tremolina

avatar

SUPRMAN said:

Tremolina said:


When people don't have another option to get better than to pay doctors the millions they are demanding, because they are sick, then those doctors don't earn it.

Doctors main goal should be to heal people, no to make money off their backs.

Fact of the matter is that it has become all about the $ and that's a sickness of itself. Health shouldn't be about money.

--
[Edited 7/20/09 1:19am]


Health shouldn't be about money but if that's the case, then improve diet, housing and education which would improve health.

Sure do that too. When the general's population's health improves, health care costs go down and the system becomes mor affordable. Agreed. But that can't be changed in a heartbeat in a unhealthy driven culture.

Doctor's don't make millions from people going to the emergency room. Doctors make the big bucks from elective procedures, most of which insurance doesn't cover. Specialists make money because there are fewer of them and the best are always in demand.

Blablabla, they and the pharmaceutical companies make way too much, causing the insurance system to be too costly.

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