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McCain's "Cross in the sand" lie Was I the only one who was disgusted with McCain's little POW story in which he recounted how one of his guards painted a cross in the sand and "for a moment, it was just two christians worshipping"?
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If he lied, it is shameless.
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MrSoulpower said: Was I the only one who was disgusted with McCain's little POW story in which he recounted how one of his guards painted a cross in the sand and "for a moment, it was just two christians worshipping"?
It's a nice little treat, which possibly drove quite a few to tears, McCain included (at least he looked like he was teary eyed). But looking at it more realistically, McCain once again used a public forum to distort his POW experience. To my understanding, the "Cross in the sand" story doesn't didn't happen at the Hanoi Hilton. It is fictional, stemming from Alexander Solzhenitsyn's book "The Gulag Archipelago". McCain often stated that he admired Solzhenitsyn, so it's a strong possibility that he has read the book. While I wasn't in Hanoi with McCain, I would conclude that it's safe to say it's highly unlikely that an event that McCain read about in a book by one of his favorite authors would happen to him in real life. Don't you agree? bottom line, McCain lied. It wasn't a small lie, in my opinion, and it wasn't a small slip either. It was a well constructed lie, directly targeted at the religious audience he was speaking to. McCain created a false religious experience to impress or win voters by deceiving them. If I was either a Christian or McCain fan (or even both), I would feel deeply offended by this shameless tactic. I ask the religious McCain supporters on this site: Are you really willing to vote for a man who will make up a religious experience to brag about in public? Didn't you say that McCain was a man of morals? 
skip the proof! bottom line, he lied! maybe he confused the guard with his Russian greatuncle Gramps.  Welcome to the New World Odor and
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obama hasn't done the same thing of which you accuse mccain, eh? | |
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McCain's a Christian? | |
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I thought that it was a bit much, but this dude is waaay in over his head so he will try/say/do anything to win some votes. “Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid people, it is true that most stupid people are conservative.” John Stuart Mill | |
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mdiver said: If he lied, it is shameless.
However proof is virtually impossible. There are a whole host of other reasons this guy should not be prez however. Oh, proof is possible. And I must correct myself. The incident really happened. It just didn't happen to McCain - it happened to Solzhenitsyn. "Along with other prisoners, he worked in the fields day after day, in rain and sun, during summer and winter. His life appeared to be nothing more than backbreaking labor and slow starvation. The intense suffering reduced him to a state of despair. On one particular day, the hopelessness of his situation became too much for him. He saw no reason to continue his struggle, no reason to keep on living. His life made no difference in the world. So he gave up. Leaving his shovel on the ground, he slowly walked to a crude bench and sat down. He knew that at any moment a guard would order him to stand up, and when he failed to respond, the guard would beat him to death, probably with his own shovel. He had seen it happen to other prisoners. As he waited, head down, he felt a presence. Slowly he looked up and saw a skinny old prisoner squat down beside him. The man said nothing. Instead, he used a stick to trace in the dirt the sign of the Cross. The man then got back up and returned to his work. As Solzhenitsyn stared at the Cross drawn in the dirt his entire perspective changed. He knew he was only one man against the all-powerful Soviet empire. Yet he knew there was something greater than the evil he saw in the prison camp, something greater than the Soviet Union. He knew that hope for all people was represented by that simple Cross. Through the power of the Cross, anything was possible. Solzhenitsyn slowly rose to his feet, picked up his shovel, and went back to work. Outwardly, nothing had changed. Inside, he had received hope. [From Luke Veronis, "The Sign of the Cross"; Communion, issue 8, Pascha 1997.] Maybe the same thing happened to McCain. But considering that McCain is a Solzhenitsyn buff himself, it would be a stretch to claim that the same thing happened to him.  [Edited 8/18/08 9:42am] Right in the groove with www.soulpower.info. www.myspace.com/djpari_soulpower | |
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HiinEnkelte said: skip the proof! bottom line, he lied! maybe he confused the guard with his Russian greatuncle Gramps. Skip the proof? It's in the book! It happened to Solzhenitsyn, which has been documented many times. McCain is a fan of Solzhenitsyn. Put 1 and 1 together.
Wait, maybe you are right. Solzhenitsyn's book was released in 1973, after McCain's POW experience. Maybe McCain, as a fan of Solzhenitsyn, met with the author and told him about it. Then Solzhenitsyn plagiarized McCain's religious experience and claimed that it happened to him. 
Come on, man. If this was Obama, you'd be all over this. Right in the groove with www.soulpower.info. www.myspace.com/djpari_soulpower | |
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Snap said: obama hasn't done the same thing of which you accuse mccain, eh?
I haven't seen Obama plagiarize somebody else's religious experience to come off as a better Christian, no. Right in the groove with www.soulpower.info. www.myspace.com/djpari_soulpower | |
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Stymie said: McCain's a Christian?
It was what he implied. At the very least he implied he was one at the time. "Behind every successful woman there is an astonished man."  General Ann Dunwoody | |
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I think it's just a matter of time until the story breaks in the mainstream media. Right in the groove with www.soulpower.info. www.myspace.com/djpari_soulpower | |
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MrSoulpower said: I think it's just a matter of time until the story breaks in the mainstream media. He was such a Christian that he went home and cheated on his disfigured wife.
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Stymie said: He was such a Christian that he went home and cheated on his disfigured wife.
That's another story. But honestly, John McCain is human, and he has flaws. No Christian is perfect, and being a Christian makes you eligible for forgiveness. McCain even said that.
But back to the topic. Hiin claimed that there was no proof. Well, McCain wrote an essay about Solzhenitsyn in the New York Sun only two weeks ago. Quote: "In 1964, he began to work diligently on The Gulag Archipelago, writing sixteen hours a day in two eight-hour shifts. He completed the second draft in two and a half months, from late 1966 to early 1967." http://www.nysun.com/opin...ork/83117/ Bottom line, McCain has read the book and he admires Solzhenitsyn. Two weeks after his essay was published, he tells his own version of one of the books most profound religious stories. A fool who believes that all of this is just a coincidence! Right in the groove with www.soulpower.info. www.myspace.com/djpari_soulpower | |
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IrresistibleB1tch said: what i can't believe is that he didn't follow up his POW story with a strong condemnation of torture. now that would have been a great wrap-up. i mean, since his voting record is so strong when it comes to condemning torture. oh wait...  He would have opened a can of worms. There are veterans who claim that McCain was never tortured and had a special status as POW because he cooperated with the Vietkong. If he had brought up his own alleged experiences with torture, all hell would have broken loose. Right in the groove with www.soulpower.info. www.myspace.com/djpari_soulpower | |
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MrSoulpower said: IrresistibleB1tch said: what i can't believe is that he didn't follow up his POW story with a strong condemnation of torture. now that would have been a great wrap-up. i mean, since his voting record is so strong when it comes to condemning torture. oh wait... He would have opened a can of worms. There are veterans who claim that McCain was never tortured and had a special status as POW because he cooperated with the Vietkong. If he had brought up his own alleged experiences with torture, all hell would have broken loose. i was being facetious. 
i actually don't doubt that he was tortured - what i don't understand is what about being a POW automatically qualifies somebody to lead a country? Wesley Clark got hammered over saying this, but i wholeheartedly agree with him. if military service is such a deciding factor, then let's elect a general. | |
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IrresistibleB1tch said: MrSoulpower said: He would have opened a can of worms. There are veterans who claim that McCain was never tortured and had a special status as POW because he cooperated with the Vietkong. If he had brought up his own alleged experiences with torture, all hell would have broken loose. i was being facetious.
i actually don't doubt that he was tortured - what i don't understand is what about being a POW automatically qualifies somebody to lead a country? Wesley Clark got hammered over saying this, but i wholeheartedly agree with him. if military service is such a deciding factor, then let's elect a general. I don't actually have formed an opinion on McCain's torture claims yet, so I won't really be able to comment. But I do have an opinion on the "cross in the sand" issue, and I think it's evident that he lied, especially considering that he just wrote about that book two weeks ago. That's really shameless, and it doesn't surprise me how fast the few Republicans have disappeared from the thread ...
And I agree, the POW issue does not make him ready to be president. [Edited 8/18/08 10:31am] Right in the groove with www.soulpower.info. www.myspace.com/djpari_soulpower | |
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MrSoulpower said: IrresistibleB1tch said: i was being facetious.
i actually don't doubt that he was tortured - what i don't understand is what about being a POW automatically qualifies somebody to lead a country? Wesley Clark got hammered over saying this, but i wholeheartedly agree with him. if military service is such a deciding factor, then let's elect a general. I don't actually have formed an opinion on McCain's torture claims yet, so I won't really be able to comment. But I do have an opinion on the "cross in the sand" issue, and I think it's evident that he lied, especially considering that he just wrote about that book two weeks ago. That's really shameless, and it doesn't surprise me how fast the few Republicans have disappeared from the thread ...
And I agree, the POW issue does not make him ready to be president. [Edited 8/18/08 10:31am]  
god, mccain really is scum for this.  All Americans, no matter their race, no matter their sex, no matter their sexual orientation, should have that same freedom to marry - Mildred Loving | |
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Snap said: obama hasn't done the same thing of which you accuse mccain, eh?
you mean when he shamelessly talks about "the least of these" and then votes to the left of NARAL, lies about his votes on abortion (when a human being gets rights is "above [his] pay grade!! best line ever! ) and the Infant Born Alive Act?
what a total loser. Welcome to the New World Odor and
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MrSoulpower said: ...
While I wasn't in Hanoi with McCain, I would conclude that it's safe to say it's highly unlikely that an event that McCain read about in a book by one of his favorite authors would happen to him in real life. ... he one of McCain's favorite authors before he reach The Gulag Archipelago? or after? hmm, no wonder McCain likes him so much, having shared the same noble struggle against Communism, and having shared a similar prison experience. cooool! [Edited 8/18/08 11:10am] Welcome to the New World Odor and
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MrSoulpower said: IrresistibleB1tch said: what i can't believe is that he didn't follow up his POW story with a strong condemnation of torture. now that would have been a great wrap-up. i mean, since his voting record is so strong when it comes to condemning torture. oh wait... He would have opened a can of worms. There are veterans who claim that McCain was never tortured and had a special status as POW because he cooperated with the Vietkong. If he had brought up his own alleged experiences with torture, all hell would have broken loose. McCain was tortured by the Vietcong to the extent that he cannot raise his arms above his shoulders. His wife or an aide has to comb his hair. So I do believe he was tortured. No evidence of collaboration though. Meanwhile, civic knowledge is enhanced by discussing public affairs, taking part in civic activities and reading about current events and history, the group said.
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evenstar3 said: MrSoulpower said: I don't actually have formed an opinion on McCain's torture claims yet, so I won't really be able to comment. But I do have an opinion on the "cross in the sand" issue, and I think it's evident that he lied, especially considering that he just wrote about that book two weeks ago. That's really shameless, and it doesn't surprise me how fast the few Republicans have disappeared from the thread ...
And I agree, the POW issue does not make him ready to be president. [Edited 8/18/08 10:31am]
god, mccain really is scum for this. Ok, let's give McCain the benefit of a doubt. Maybe he didn't steal the story from the russian writer. Maybe he got it after watching "Ben Hur", there's a similar scene in that movie. Whatever it is, McCain likes this story a lot, because he has already used it last year. Right in the groove with www.soulpower.info. www.myspace.com/djpari_soulpower | |
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evenstar3 said: MrSoulpower said: I don't actually have formed an opinion on McCain's torture claims yet, so I won't really be able to comment. But I do have an opinion on the "cross in the sand" issue, and I think it's evident that he lied, especially considering that he just wrote about that book two weeks ago. That's really shameless, and it doesn't surprise me how fast the few Republicans have disappeared from the thread ...
And I agree, the POW issue does not make him ready to be president. [Edited 8/18/08 10:31am]
god, mccain really is scum for this. and yet your guy supports the right to deny abortion survivors medical care. and the right to kill all pre-natal babies, and to kill babies half-way of the womb by slicing their skulls open with a pair of scissors and scrambling their brains. now that is the definition of 'total scum'. and this is not based on daily kos or huffington obama camp conjecture, but his own words and voting record. [Edited 8/18/08 11:13am] Welcome to the New World Odor and
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HiinEnkelte said: Snap said: obama hasn't done the same thing of which you accuse mccain, eh?
you mean when he shamelessly talks about "the least of these" and then votes to the left of NARAL, lies about his votes on abortion (when a human being gets rights is "above [his] pay grade!! best line ever! ) and the Infant Born Alive Act?
what a total loser. Sources? Btw, his thread is about McCain. There are enough Obama threads for you to play on. As a Christian yourself, don't you feel offended when McCain so shamelessly plagiarized to present himself as the humble Christian, who found religious support from a Vietnamese prison guard? Right in the groove with www.soulpower.info. www.myspace.com/djpari_soulpower | |
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HiinEnkelte said: Snap said: obama hasn't done the same thing of which you accuse mccain, eh?
you mean when he shamelessly talks about "the least of these" and then votes to the left of NARAL, lies about his votes on abortion (when a human being gets rights is "above [his] pay grade!! best line ever! ) and the Infant Born Alive Act?
what a total loser. So when does a human being get rights? Not at conception. Outside the womb, if it's life is sustainable? It's either conception, birth, or some point in between known to only God. But we aren't about to leave it up to God though are we? Should the woman carrying the fetus get any legal protections, or does the fact that she is pregnant mean the child preempts her always? (If there is no exception for the health [mental or physical, I would argue] then the fetus trumps the woman's rights.) Meanwhile, civic knowledge is enhanced by discussing public affairs, taking part in civic activities and reading about current events and history, the group said.
Which is why we have P & R! | |
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HiinEnkelte said: evenstar3 said:
god, mccain really is scum for this. and yet your guy supports the right to deny abortion survivors medical care. and the right to kill all pre-natal babies, and to kill babies half-way of the womb by slicing their skulls open with a pair of scissors and scrambling their brains. now that is the definition of 'total scum'. and this is not based on daily kos or huffington obama camp conjecture, but his own words and voting record. [Edited 8/18/08 11:13am] Please ... go play on one of the many Obama threads. This one is about McCain. I know that for a lack of argument you have to change topic, but if you really have nothing to say about this McCain topic, maybe this thread is not for you. Right in the groove with www.soulpower.info. www.myspace.com/djpari_soulpower | |
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HiinEnkelte said: evenstar3 said:
god, mccain really is scum for this. and yet your guy supports the right to deny abortion survivors medical care. and the right to kill all pre-natal babies, and to kill babies half-way of the womb by slicing their skulls open with a pair of scissors and scrambling their brains. now that is the definition of 'total scum'. and this is not based on daily kos or huffington obama camp conjecture, but his own words and voting record. [Edited 8/18/08 11:13am] so it's back to abortion when you can't manage a response that actually fits the thread, huh?  as i've told you numerous times: make a new thread.
or hey, someone's been kind enough to make one for you!! have at it! http://prince.org/msg/105/279655  [Edited 8/18/08 11:21am] All Americans, no matter their race, no matter their sex, no matter their sexual orientation, should have that same freedom to marry - Mildred Loving | |
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SUPRMAN said: HiinEnkelte said: you mean when he shamelessly talks about "the least of these" and then votes to the left of NARAL, lies about his votes on abortion (when a human being gets rights is "above [his] pay grade!! best line ever! ) and the Infant Born Alive Act?
what a total loser. So when does a human being get rights? Not at conception. Outside the womb, if it's life is sustainable? It's either conception, birth, or some point in between known to only God. But we aren't about to leave it up to God though are we? Should the woman carrying the fetus get any legal protections, or does the fact that she is pregnant mean the child preempts her always? (If there is no exception for the health [mental or physical, I would argue] then the fetus trumps the woman's rights.) ugh, don't let him do this to yet another thread. if hiin can't learn to make a thread discussing abortion, we should all ignore his attempts to turn obama threads in here into one. All Americans, no matter their race, no matter their sex, no matter their sexual orientation, should have that same freedom to marry - Mildred Loving | |
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HiinEnkelte said: he one of McCain's favorite authors before he reach The Gulag Archipelago? or after? hmm, no wonder McCain likes him so much, having shared the same noble struggle against Communism, and having shared a similar prison experience. cooool!
[Edited 8/18/08 11:10am] We don't know when. And it really doesn't matter. But "The Gulag Archipelago" was published in the US in 1973, the year McCain was released as POW. And you're right, maybe that's one of the reasons why McCain identified so much with the book. But you are beating around the bush. Would you care to address McCains plagiarism? Or are you just here to troll? Right in the groove with www.soulpower.info. www.myspace.com/djpari_soulpower | |
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whether it really happened or not, we'll probably never know. if he lied about it, i guess he'll have to answer for it later.
