photo essay on a Klan seamstress over at Mother Jones

http://www.motherjones.co...utfitters/

I'm posting this as a reminder of the humanity in everyone. So often we demonize and vilify murderers, rapists, homophobes, racists, pedophiles, and war criminals as monsters. But that's the easy way out IMO. I think it's very important that we never allow ourselves to forget that these people are just people more or less like us -and to me that's infinitely more disturbing than any boogeyman we can conjure up and blame could ever be.


I have to say the photographer's nonchalance in the audio comments is a little disconcerting, but for now I'll chalk that up as an attempt at objectivism.

It's not that The Joker's gay. What he is, is Batsexual. He'd be whacking it to Batsy whether our hero had girl parts or boy parts underneath that rubber.

How is she more or less like the rest of us?

I understand your point, but these people are "just like us" in physiology alone.

These people live to hate, and make no mistake, they do not think you are like them in any way. They think you are inferior in every way and they will vilify you, hate you, and take any action they can against you.

These people are demons and monsters yet, we allow them in our society. How is that the easy way out?

Stymie said:

It's not that The Joker's gay. What he is, is Batsexual. He'd be whacking it to Batsy whether our hero had girl parts or boy parts underneath that rubber.

meow85 said:

meow85 said:

Meow, I respect you as a human being, but please tell me you're kidding about that site. She sews costumes for people that perpetrate hate. That's just plain sick and to see kids with them on like they're in a costume party, and asking what is wrong with this picture. This brings to mind that famous pic with the two lynched men and a crowd standing around looking at them like they are at a festival with smiles on their faces, and the pic where they lit a black man on fire while they all stood around and watched. Sorry, but the thought of the klan disgusts me.
[Edited 7/31/08 13:55pm]

http://prince.org/msg/15/286132


BARACK OBAMA, FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES!! Get used to it HATERS!!

Mars23 said:

It's not that The Joker's gay. What he is, is Batsexual. He'd be whacking it to Batsy whether our hero had girl parts or boy parts underneath that rubber.

Mars23 said:

It's not that The Joker's gay. What he is, is Batsexual. He'd be whacking it to Batsy whether our hero had girl parts or boy parts underneath that rubber.

What I got out of this photo essay is that Klansmen could be anyone. They could be living on your street going about their daily business and you would never know how much they hate you.

2elijah said:

Please tell me you're kidding Meow. She sews costumes for people that perpetrate hate. That's just plain sick.
[Edited 7/31/08 13:43pm]

It's not that The Joker's gay. What he is, is Batsexual. He'd be whacking it to Batsy whether our hero had girl parts or boy parts underneath that rubber.

sextonseven said:

It's not that The Joker's gay. What he is, is Batsexual. He'd be whacking it to Batsy whether our hero had girl parts or boy parts underneath that rubber.

sextonseven said:

http://prince.org/msg/15/286132


BARACK OBAMA, FIRST AFRICAN-AMERICAN PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES!! Get used to it HATERS!!

sextonseven said:

Measure in Love
"May the voice of the child in you never stop speaking. May it fall like a gift from heaven, offering to dessicated words its splendorous burst of laugher, the salt of its tears, its all powerful wildness." Maurice Blanchot

applekisses said:

It's not that The Joker's gay. What he is, is Batsexual. He'd be whacking it to Batsy whether our hero had girl parts or boy parts underneath that rubber.

meow85 said:

deebee said:

meow85 said:

I'm not attempted to humanize them to in any way make people feel for them. God, no. I'm attempting to humanize them so we don't forget what we're really dealing with. It's easy to call them monsters -that way we don't have to acknowledge the very real evil that hides within humanity. If they're not people, it's not as scary. Wrong. It's scary because they're just people.

Sounds a bit like Hannah Arendt's famous argument about "the banality of evil", which she wrote about in her coverage of the trial at Nuremberg of Adolf Eichmann. She refuted the idea that the Nazis were rabid sociopaths, and put forward the argument that people who were normal in their everyday lives, acting en masse and feeling that the moral 'buck' never stopped with them, could collectively produce something devastating in human terms, even a holocaust.

The argument's a persuasive one in general terms, I agree, but what I'd say, in response to the point you're making here is that if we recognise that lynchings, death camps, race-hate, etc, are as much a potential outcome of human action as love, compassion, fellowship, etc (i.e. the idea that ordinary human beings have the potential to do both good and evil) then the idea that people like this woman are "just human beings" isn't really that comforting any more. Like you say, in a way it makes it more disturbing.

Not really sure where that leaves us, though.....
[Edited 8/1/08 7:33am]

Measure in Love
"May the voice of the child in you never stop speaking. May it fall like a gift from heaven, offering to dessicated words its splendorous burst of laugher, the salt of its tears, its all powerful wildness." Maurice Blanchot

deebee said:

meow85 said:

I'm not attempted to humanize them to in any way make people feel for them. God, no. I'm attempting to humanize them so we don't forget what we're really dealing with. It's easy to call them monsters -that way we don't have to acknowledge the very real evil that hides within humanity. If they're not people, it's not as scary. Wrong. It's scary because they're just people.

Sounds a bit like Hannah Arendt's famous argument about "the banality of evil", which she wrote about in her coverage of the trial at Nuremberg of Adolf Eichmann. She refuted the idea that the Nazis were rabid sociopaths, and put forward the argument that people who were normal in their everyday lives, acting en masse and feeling that the moral 'buck' never stopped with them, could collectively produce something devastating in human terms, even a holocaust.

The argument's a persuasive one in general terms, I agree, but what I'd say, in response to the point you're making here is that if we recognise that lynchings, death camps, race-hate, etc, are as much a potential outcome of human action as love, compassion, fellowship, etc (i.e. the idea that ordinary human beings have the potential to do both good and evil) then the idea that people like this woman are "just human beings" isn't really that comforting any more. Like you say, in a way it makes it more disturbing.

Not really sure where that leaves us, though.....
[Edited 8/1/08 7:33am]

It's not that The Joker's gay. What he is, is Batsexual. He'd be whacking it to Batsy whether our hero had girl parts or boy parts underneath that rubber.

oh, i thought they bought these from the same place doctors and nurses buy their scrubs.

Mars23 said:

meow85 said:

2elijah said:

Please tell me you're kidding Meow. She sews costumes for people that perpetrate hate. That's just plain sick.
[Edited 7/31/08 13:43pm]

I'm not arguing with that. Like I said, I am not condoning her support of the Klan, and I am definitely not condoning the actions of the KKK itself, or any other racist organizations.

But

If she's not a person, what is she? That's not the devil sewing those robes. One could argue the devil is working through people like the Klan, if one believes in such things. But the devil working through a person and the person actually being the devil are not the same thing.

That's my entire point with creating this thread -these are only human beings. Human beings that yes, have created and caused untold havoc and damage and bloodshed over the years, and who work like mad to spread their bullshit, but just human beings.

Pretending they're monsters won't make the problem go away, but it's easy. But acknowledging the humanity underneath all that bile and filth, that's what's more difficult. But that, I think, will help society deal with the issue more effectively, even if we never do eliminate racism.

meow85 said:

meow85 said:

deebee said:

Sounds a bit like Hannah Arendt's famous argument about "the banality of evil", which she wrote about in her coverage of the trial at Nuremberg of Adolf Eichmann. She refuted the idea that the Nazis were rabid sociopaths, and put forward the argument that people who were normal in their everyday lives, acting en masse and feeling that the moral 'buck' never stopped with them, could collectively produce something devastating in human terms, even a holocaust.

The argument's a persuasive one in general terms, I agree, but what I'd say, in response to the point you're making here is that if we recognise that lynchings, death camps, race-hate, etc, are as much a potential outcome of human action as love, compassion, fellowship, etc (i.e. the idea that ordinary human beings have the potential to do both good and evil) then the idea that people like this woman are "just human beings" isn't really that comforting any more. Like you say, in a way it makes it more disturbing.

Not really sure where that leaves us, though.....
[Edited 8/1/08 7:33am]

That was my intention. Calling these people monsters and seperating things into "them" and "us" is too easy. It's simplistic and childish. Maybe it does help people sleep better at night to pretend that it was some demon and not just a person who commited an evil act, but it's a lie.

The truth is uncomfortable and unpleasant. But I think the only way society can come to grips with things like racism is to acknowledge that anyone could be capabale of it. It's NOT "them" and "us" -it's just us.

Byron said:

i agree with Meow - that artificial separation from others we find (and rightly so) repulsive by labeling them the devil or evil or scum does not solve the problem.

but i did find some of this journalist's comments disturbing - he talked about the "true history of the Klan" - not the history of the Klan as seen by its members... he says he doesn't want to judge, but that doesn't mean he shouldn't put their comments into perspective.

IrresistibleB1tch said:

ehuffnsd said:

IrresistibleB1tch said:

ehuffnsd said:

Can't condemn this woman, for sure, but I sure as hell won't CONDONE what she stands for. That said, it reminds me of these "Christian" websites that try publish hate news against gays and try to act like they're legit.