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Thread started 05/19/08 1:23pm

thepope2the9s

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UK approves creation of Human/Animal embryos

http://www.timesonline.co...964693.ece

British scientists will be allowed to research devastating diseases such as Alzheimer’s and Parkinson’s using human-animal embryos, after the House of Commons tonight rejected a ban.

An amendment to the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Bill that would have outlawed the creation of “human admixed embryos” for medical research was defeated in a free vote by a majority of 160, preserving what Gordon Brown regards as a central element of the legislation.

The Government, however, is braced for defeat tomorrow on a separate clause that would scrap the requirement that fertility clinics consider a child’s “need for a father” before treating patients. MPs will also tomorrow consider amendments that would cut the legal limit for abortion from 24 weeks to 22 or 20 weeks.

A second amendment, that would have banned the creation only of “true hybrids” made by fertilising an animal egg with human sperm, or vice-versa, was also defeated by a majority of 63. Another free vote later tonight is expected to approve the use of embryo-screening to create “saviour siblings” suitable to donate umbilical cord blood to sick children.

Edward Leigh, Conservative MP for Gainsborough, moving the amendment to ban all admixed embryos, said mingling animal and human DNA crossed an “ultimate boundary”. He said that exaggerated claims were giving patients false hope and that the dangers of the research were unknown.

He said: "In many ways we are like children playing with landmines without any concept of the dangers of the technology that we are handling.”

Mark Simmonds, a shadow health minister, who moved the amendment to ban “true hybrids”, said there was no compelling evidence of their research utility.

Evan Harris, Liberal Democrat MP for Oxford West, challenged those who accepted admixed embryos in principle but rejected “true hybrids” to explain the ethical difference between an embryo that was 99 per cent human and one that was 50 per cent human.

Dawn Primarolo, the Health Minister, agreed: “Once we go down that road it seems illogical to oppose a particular mix.” Ms Primarolo said the shortage of human eggs was the major barrier to embryonic stem cell research. The minister admitted that the Bill “was not a promise” that cures to diseases could be found. “It’s an aspiration that it may.”

The amendment to ban all admixed embryos was defeated by 336 votes to 176. The prohibition on true hybrids was defeated by 286 votes to 223.

The main type of admixed embryo permitted by the Bill are “cytoplasmic hybrids” or “cybrids”, made by moving a human nucleus into an empty animal egg. These are genetically 99.9 per cent human. As well as true hybrids, it also allows chimeras that combine human and animal cells and transgenic human embryos that include a little animal DNA.

The most immediate implication of the Commons vote will be to allow teams at the University of Newcastle-upon-Tyne and King’s College, London, who already hold licences to create a particular type of admixed embryo, to continue their research.

Though they were cleared to start these experiments by the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Authority in January, these licences would have been rescinded had MPs voted for a ban.

Both teams are trying to create cybrids, which could carry the DNA of patients with genetic conditions to create stem-cell models.

The idea is to make stem cell models of diseases, to study their progress and to test new treatments. Human eggs could be used, but they are in short supply as they cannot be donated without risk to women.

It is legal to culture admixed embryos for a maximum of 14 days but it is illegal to transfer them to a human or animal womb. A Times/Populus poll found last month that 50 per cent of the public supports this work, with only 30 per cent opposed.

The decision will also encourage a third team, who plans to use admixed embryos to study motor neuron disease, to apply for a licence. The group, led by Professor Chris Shaw of the Institute of Psychiatry in London, had been waiting for the vote.

Professor Shaw said: “It will allow us to forge ahead on all fronts in our attempts to understand and develop therapies for a huge range of currently incurable diseases. Cures may be some years off, but this vote does mean we can use hybrid embryos, in addition to adult stem cells, in our search to understand what causes Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s and motor neuron disease. Without a much better understanding of what is going wrong in the brain it is very unlikely we will be able to reverse the disease process.”

Professor Robin Lovell-Badge, of the National Institute for Medical Research in London, said: “The positive vote is yet another endorsement for the progress of scientific enquiry, one that will greatly aid our understanding of normal embryonic development, and of many types of debilitating genetic disease.

“This understanding will ultimately give us the best chance of developing therapies for these diseases, for infertility and for a range of other medical conditions”.

Simon Denegri, chief executive of the Association for Medical Research Charities, said: “MPs have clearly listened to the strong arguments put forward by medical research charities, patient groups and scientists of the importance of this research to advancing our understanding of diseases and conditions that affect hundreds of thousands of people and their families in the UK. This is a good piece of legislation and its successful passage is in the public interest.”

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful WORKS OF DARKNESS, but rather EXPOSE THEM.. Ephesians 5:11"
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Reply #1 posted 05/19/08 1:32pm

mdiver

Yeah but in America people vote for people like Bush who has less intelligence than an artificial embryo so who gives a shit neutral wink

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Reply #2 posted 05/19/08 1:43pm

thepope2the9s

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mdiver said:

Yeah but in America people vote for people like Bush who has less intelligence than an artificial embryo so who gives a shit neutral wink


some believe Bush stole the election and was not voted in at all.

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful WORKS OF DARKNESS, but rather EXPOSE THEM.. Ephesians 5:11"
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Reply #3 posted 05/19/08 1:44pm

mdiver

thepope2the9s said:

mdiver said:

Yeah but in America people vote for people like Bush who has less intelligence than an artificial embryo so who gives a shit neutral wink


some believe Bush stole the election and was not voted in at all.


Some people wear tin helmets and vote for the same party as Bush.

neutral

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Reply #4 posted 05/19/08 1:55pm

HiinEnkelte

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mdiver said:

Yeah but in America people vote for people like Bush who has less intelligence than an artificial embryo so who gives a shit neutral wink


so would that be more or less than intelligence than obama?

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Reply #5 posted 05/19/08 1:59pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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HiinEnkelte said:

mdiver said:

Yeah but in America people vote for people like Bush who has less intelligence than an artificial embryo so who gives a shit neutral wink


so would that be more or less than intelligence than obama?


Speaking of, what is the point of having Osama in your signature?

I stay Woke.

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http://prince.org/msg/100/264513
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Reply #6 posted 05/19/08 2:04pm

HiinEnkelte

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

HiinEnkelte said:



so would that be more or less than intelligence than obama?


Speaking of, what is the point of having Osama in your signature?


i don't want biraq hussein osama for president. that's why.
is that more un-pc enough for you? rolleyes lol

it means i take osama and the islamic terrorism and the islamofascists seriously.
and i don't blame americans or american foreign policy for it.

Welcome to the New World Odor and
the Myth Making Moonbattery of Obamanation.

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Reply #7 posted 05/19/08 2:06pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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Is everyone clear as to the creation of these embryos? Are they created using animal semen or human? sounds like they remove a key part of a human egg and put it in the animal egg. by virtue of the fact that that key part no longer has it's human egg is it still human?

I stay Woke.

Two Fish 2008, Upstream/Downstream: Master Teacher, Healer, Leader, Of Hope, At Peace, To Sanctuary, In Redemption, Living Gifts unto Life and Light.

http://prince.org/msg/100/264513
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Reply #8 posted 05/19/08 2:06pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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HiinEnkelte said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:



Speaking of, what is the point of having Osama in your signature?


i don't want biraq hussein osama for president. that's why.
is that more un-pc enough for you? rolleyes lol

it means i take osama and the islamic terrorism and the islamofascists seriously.
and i don't blame americans or american foreign policy for it.


Talk about naive lol

I stay Woke.

Two Fish 2008, Upstream/Downstream: Master Teacher, Healer, Leader, Of Hope, At Peace, To Sanctuary, In Redemption, Living Gifts unto Life and Light.

http://prince.org/msg/100/264513
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Reply #9 posted 05/19/08 2:09pm

mdiver

HiinEnkelte said:

mdiver said:

Yeah but in America people vote for people like Bush who has less intelligence than an artificial embryo so who gives a shit neutral wink


so would that be more or less than intelligence than obama?


From what i have seen Obama knows which way up a book goes neutral

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Reply #10 posted 05/19/08 2:13pm

HiinEnkelte

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

HiinEnkelte said:



i don't want biraq hussein osama for president. that's why.
is that more un-pc enough for you? rolleyes lol

it means i take osama and the islamic terrorism and the islamofascists seriously.
and i don't blame americans or american foreign policy for it.


Talk about naive lol


don't be so serious, it's a rhymin' sig dude, not a fragment of heraclitus or trying to be rilke.

.
[Edited 5/19/08 15:17pm]

Welcome to the New World Odor and
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Reply #11 posted 05/19/08 2:17pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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HiinEnkelte said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:



Talk about naive lol


don't be so serious, it's a rhymin' sig dude, not a fragment heraclitus or trying to be rilke.


Why would you lie? It's just a harmless rhyme? NO, it's the same tired and played out ploy from the GOP playbook. Admit you're on that bandwaggon and don't patronize people lol

I stay Woke.

Two Fish 2008, Upstream/Downstream: Master Teacher, Healer, Leader, Of Hope, At Peace, To Sanctuary, In Redemption, Living Gifts unto Life and Light.

http://prince.org/msg/100/264513
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Reply #12 posted 05/19/08 2:17pm

Mars23

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HiinEnkelte said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:



Speaking of, what is the point of having Osama in your signature?


i don't want biraq hussein osama for president. that's why.
is that more un-pc enough for you? rolleyes lol

it means i take osama and the islamic terrorism and the islamofascists seriously.
and i don't blame americans or american foreign policy for it.



I think it means you're quoting a sign by a Romney supporter in an un-original attempt to bait yet again.

Join the antithesis of the org conservative union!

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Reply #13 posted 05/19/08 2:19pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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Mars23 said:

HiinEnkelte said:



i don't want biraq hussein osama for president. that's why.
is that more un-pc enough for you? rolleyes lol

it means i take osama and the islamic terrorism and the islamofascists seriously.
and i don't blame americans or american foreign policy for it.



I think it means you're quoting a sign by a Romney supporter in an un-original attempt to bait yet again.



See! innocent sig my ass lol

I stay Woke.

Two Fish 2008, Upstream/Downstream: Master Teacher, Healer, Leader, Of Hope, At Peace, To Sanctuary, In Redemption, Living Gifts unto Life and Light.

http://prince.org/msg/100/264513
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Reply #14 posted 05/19/08 2:25pm

DiminutiveRock
er

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Mars23 said:




I think it means you're quoting a sign by a Romney supporter in an un-original attempt to bait yet again.



See! innocent sig my ass lol


hah!

"I think one of the things that we're probably proudest of -- I certainly am -- is that the message was always love, in any form we portrayed it." - Paul McCartney
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Reply #15 posted 05/19/08 2:25pm

Electrostar

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Is everyone clear as to the creation of these embryos? Are they created using animal semen or human? sounds like they remove a key part of a human egg and put it in the animal egg. by virtue of the fact that that key part no longer has it's human egg is it still human?


99% human 1% horse

To comply with the new law the scientists have to kill the baby within 14 days.

.

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Reply #16 posted 05/19/08 2:27pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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Electrostar said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Is everyone clear as to the creation of these embryos? Are they created using animal semen or human? sounds like they remove a key part of a human egg and put it in the animal egg. by virtue of the fact that that key part no longer has it's human egg is it still human?


99% human 1% horse

To comply with the new law the scientists have to kill the baby within 14 days.

.

So the part they remove from the egg is 99% of the egg itself?

I stay Woke.

Two Fish 2008, Upstream/Downstream: Master Teacher, Healer, Leader, Of Hope, At Peace, To Sanctuary, In Redemption, Living Gifts unto Life and Light.

http://prince.org/msg/100/264513
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Reply #17 posted 05/19/08 2:29pm

DiminutiveRock
er

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Electrostar said:



99% human 1% horse

To comply with the new law the scientists have to kill the baby within 14 days.

.

So the part they remove from the egg is 99% of the egg itself?


eek

"I think one of the things that we're probably proudest of -- I certainly am -- is that the message was always love, in any form we portrayed it." - Paul McCartney
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Reply #18 posted 05/19/08 2:32pm

Electrostar

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

Electrostar said:



99% human 1% horse

To comply with the new law the scientists have to kill the baby within 14 days.

.

So the part they remove from the egg is 99% of the egg itself?


BBC website:

The bill would allow regulated research using hybrid or "admix" embryos, where the nuclei of human cells are inserted into animal eggs. The resulting embryos would be kept for up to 14 days to harvest stem cells.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/h...407589.stm
[Edited 5/19/08 14:33pm]

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Reply #19 posted 05/19/08 2:36pm

SupaFunkyOrgan
grinderSexy

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Electrostar said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:


So the part they remove from the egg is 99% of the egg itself?


BBC website:

The bill would allow regulated research using hybrid or "admix" embryos, where the nuclei of human cells are inserted into animal eggs. The resulting embryos would be kept for up to 14 days to harvest stem cells.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/h...407589.stm
[Edited 5/19/08 14:33pm]

OK, that article says that the egg is stimulated to divide through electric shock. That implies there is no sperm involved. Can this be considered human if the cell division is not through the process of a sperm joining the egg?

I stay Woke.

Two Fish 2008, Upstream/Downstream: Master Teacher, Healer, Leader, Of Hope, At Peace, To Sanctuary, In Redemption, Living Gifts unto Life and Light.

http://prince.org/msg/100/264513
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Reply #20 posted 05/19/08 2:37pm

Electrostar

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A much better explanation of whats going on here...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/h...233415.stm


This work has the support of all the major cancer charities although it does call into question what next? Super humans?

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Reply #21 posted 05/19/08 3:25pm

HiinEnkelte

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Mars23 said:

HiinEnkelte said:



i don't want biraq hussein osama for president. that's why.
is that more un-pc enough for you? rolleyes lol

it means i take osama and the islamic terrorism and the islamofascists seriously.
and i don't blame americans or american foreign policy for it.



I think it means you're quoting a sign by a Romney supporter in an un-original attempt to bait yet again.



where did i claim originality?!

and unoriginal? that would be this guy...lol



now campaign slogans as sigs are bait?! rolleyes

Welcome to the New World Odor and
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DISSENT FROM DAY ONE

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Reply #22 posted 05/19/08 4:05pm

foal30

I find the whole thing repugnant.

having the support of the cancer charities do nothing for me, most are happy to take the fruits of vivisection, whatever they may be.

I doubt we can cure anything until the concept of Life is sacred is actually our living policy.

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Reply #23 posted 05/19/08 4:54pm

Mars23

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HiinEnkelte said:

Mars23 said:




I think it means you're quoting a sign by a Romney supporter in an un-original attempt to bait yet again.



where did i claim originality?!

and unoriginal? that would be this guy...lol



now campaign slogans as sigs are bait?! rolleyes



I would say when you assigned meaning to a slogan you resued, you claimed originality. To you;
"it means i take osama and the islamic terrorism and the islamofascists seriously. "

When the Obama backers try to deflect criticism of him by bringing up G.W. Bush, I think it is an extremely weak argument. I feel the same way when you try to deflect it onto Obama.

Given the current tone in this forum and your participation and contributions to it, yes, a slogan in a sig is bait in my opinion, unfortunately Supa took it.

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Reply #24 posted 05/19/08 5:52pm

HiinEnkelte

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Mars23 said:

HiinEnkelte said:



where did i claim originality?!

and unoriginal? that would be this guy...lol



now campaign slogans as sigs are bait?! rolleyes



I would say when you assigned meaning to a slogan you resued, you claimed originality. To you;
"it means i take osama and the islamic terrorism and the islamofascists seriously. "


YOU would sat that, and that's totally fine. i do not believe that it follows. I was asked why i have such a sig. Surely i can have my own personally unique reasons for finding it sig worthy. indeed, i don't know how i could avoid having my own personal reasons for using it as a sig. giving that reasons when asked hardly equates to a claim for originality on the sig.

When the Obama backers try to deflect criticism of him by bringing up G.W. Bush, I think it is an extremely weak argument. I feel the same way when you try to deflect it onto Obama.


good. so do i. i hope they see it as well.

Given the current tone in this forum and your participation and contributions to it, yes, a slogan in a sig is bait in my opinion, unfortunately Supa took it.


well, i think the word bait has been getting redefined, or so overly broadly defined so as to become near meaningless, imo. shrug

Welcome to the New World Odor and
the Myth Making Moonbattery of Obamanation.

DISSENT FROM DAY ONE

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Reply #25 posted 05/19/08 5:57pm

Stymie

HiinEnkelte said:

SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:



Speaking of, what is the point of having Osama in your signature?


i don't want biraq hussein osama for president. that's why.
is that more un-pc enough for you? rolleyes lol

it means i take osama and the islamic terrorism and the islamofascists seriously.
and i don't blame americans or american foreign policy for it.
Yet you blow up when anyone calls you on your BS.

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Reply #26 posted 05/19/08 6:01pm

Stymie

Mars23 said:

HiinEnkelte said:



i don't want biraq hussein osama for president. that's why.
is that more un-pc enough for you? rolleyes lol

it means i take osama and the islamic terrorism and the islamofascists seriously.
and i don't blame americans or american foreign policy for it.



I think it means you're quoting a sign by a Romney supporter in an un-original attempt to bait yet again.

And that lady can't spell. No wonder she's voting republican.

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Reply #27 posted 05/19/08 6:13pm

EvoLTwiin

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Stymie said:

Mars23 said:




I think it means you're quoting a sign by a Romney supporter in an un-original attempt to bait yet again.

And that lady can't spell. No wonder she's voting republican.


omfg the generalizations! the slam!! oh the humanity!!!

lol razz


Life is flesh on bone convulsing above the ground.


Everyone is aware that life is parodic and that it lacks an interpretation.
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Reply #28 posted 05/19/08 6:46pm

Dance

Ew.

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Reply #29 posted 05/19/08 7:46pm

WellInever

99% human 1% horse


Depending on what part of the horse he gets....he could be very popular with the ladies.


But really. They need to be VERY careful with this. One big mess up and the tied could turn against this on a global scale.

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