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Do You think the Disciples did a Good job of Speaking for Jesus? why? why not? | |
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SirPsycho said: why? why not?
Paul did not fully explain himself. Paul had some personal feelings that he was trying to run from, and he was a bit judgmental of others because of it. He said some things that were directed specifically toward certain groups of people, and it has been mistranslated to mean that he was speaking about everyone. Sadly, many "Christians" are actually Hebrews and Paulites, rather than actual Christians. | |
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JDODSONandFlashpointe said: SirPsycho said: why? why not?
Paul did not fully explain himself. Paul had some personal feelings that he was trying to run from, and he was a bit judgmental of others because of it. He said some things that were directed specifically toward certain groups of people, and it has been mistranslated to mean that he was speaking about everyone. Sadly, many "Christians" are actually Hebrews and Paulites, rather than actual Christians. Spong reader? | |
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SirPsycho said: JDODSONandFlashpointe said: Paul did not fully explain himself. Paul had some personal feelings that he was trying to run from, and he was a bit judgmental of others because of it. He said some things that were directed specifically toward certain groups of people, and it has been mistranslated to mean that he was speaking about everyone. Sadly, many "Christians" are actually Hebrews and Paulites, rather than actual Christians. Spong reader? He has good stuff, but I study independently and write accordingly.  | |
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JDODSONandFlashpointe said: SirPsycho said: Spong reader? He has good stuff, but I study independently and write accordingly. i believe anyone who seeks shall find (so im not worried), but i do often wonder how well the dicsiples qouted jesus...considering how we've learned to literalize religious text | |
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SirPsycho said: JDODSONandFlashpointe said: He has good stuff, but I study independently and write accordingly. i believe anyone who seeks shall find (so im not worried), but i do often wonder how well the dicsiples qouted jesus...considering how we've learned to literalize religious text I think Paul did a great job with the message of Christ, but sometimes Paul shot from his "emotional hip", and there are many people out there that still consider that the "Word of God" when actually it was the word of Paul. | |
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JDODSONandFlashpointe said: SirPsycho said: i believe anyone who seeks shall find (so im not worried), but i do often wonder how well the dicsiples qouted jesus...considering how we've learned to literalize religious text I think Paul did a great job with the message of Christ, but sometimes Paul shot from his "emotional hip", and there are many people out there that still consider that the "Word of God" when actually it was the word of Paul. do you feel this was only an issue with him?..what gospels did paul have by the time he began to write his letters? | |
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SirPsycho said: JDODSONandFlashpointe said: I think Paul did a great job with the message of Christ, but sometimes Paul shot from his "emotional hip", and there are many people out there that still consider that the "Word of God" when actually it was the word of Paul. do you feel this was only an issue with him?..what gospels did paul have by the time he began to write his letters? I believe Paul was a great teacher, and it was very noble of him to give up his past and accept Christ on the road. I think the Gospels were with Paul, it's just that he had that "thorn", and he let his personal emotions get the best of him. | |
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If you mean Paul...then no. Paul ranted about the evils of faggotry, and said women should be made to shut up in church. Christ-like? Not unless there's a big missing chunk of the Bible wherein Jesus taught the subjugation of women and dismissal of non-straight people was God's way. We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. | |
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I would 1st have to actually have heard Jesus speak
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Paul WASN'T a Disciple if you are speaking of the original 12.
"...I will go to the animal shelter and get you a kitty cat. I will let you fall in love...with that kitty cat. And then on some dark, cold night I will steal away into your home...and punch you in the face!" |
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i appreciate this guys....but why the focus on paul? (a voice in my head say's why not, but i'd rather not assume) i was asking about the 12... | |
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SirPsycho said: i appreciate this guys....but why the focus on paul? (a voice in my head say's why not, but i'd rather not assume) i was asking about the 12...
I should have clarified. From what is written, Paul is the only disciple that I have an issue with. The others are okay. | |
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JDODSONandFlashpointe said: SirPsycho said: i appreciate this guys....but why the focus on paul? (a voice in my head say's why not, but i'd rather not assume) i was asking about the 12...
I should have clarified. From what is written, Paul is the only disciple that I have an issue with. The others are okay. But as someone pointed out, he was the replacement for Judas and was not one of the originals. | |
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lazycrockett said: Paul WASN'T a Disciple if you are speaking of the original 12.
I see Paul as the first administrator of the church who's job was to control and bring together the different fractions of the jesus believers. Personally I don't believe that jesus every spoke to or through paul. Guess it depends which interpretation of disciple you mean. I took it to refer to any of the early folks who claimed to be spreading Jesus' message. And since so many modern churches base their approach so heavily on Paul's writings, I think it's valid to include him. [Edited 8/27/07 20:26pm] We are stardust. We are golden.
Feb. 12th -28th: Two weeks of corporate and nationalistic dick-stroking in the guise of a sporting event. I can not wait. | |
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JDODSONandFlashpointe said: JDODSONandFlashpointe said: I should have clarified. From what is written, Paul is the only disciple that I have an issue with. The others are okay. But as someone pointed out, he was the replacement for Judas and was not one of the originals. Barnabas or someone replaced Judas. Not Paul. A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on progress of social uplift is approaching spiritual death."-MLK, Jr. | |
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Yes I think they did a great job.
So...how's everybody doing?  | |
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bluesbaby said: JDODSONandFlashpointe said: But as someone pointed out, he was the replacement for Judas and was not one of the originals. Barnabas or someone replaced Judas. Not Paul. matthias, I think A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on progress of social uplift is approaching spiritual death."-MLK, Jr. | |
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JDODSONandFlashpointe said: SirPsycho said: do you feel this was only an issue with him?..what gospels did paul have by the time he began to write his letters? I believe Paul was a great teacher, and it was very noble of him to give up his past and accept Christ on the road. I think the Gospels were with Paul, it's just that he had that "thorn", and he let his personal emotions get the best of him. Indeed he did.... THE B EST
I wish him the worst of luck for the rest of his life....******..I've been ther | |
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lazycrockett said: Paul WASN'T a Disciple if you are speaking of the original 12.
I see Paul as the first administrator of the church who's job was to control and bring together the different fractions of the jesus believers. Personally I don't believe that jesus every spoke to or through paul. That's a possibility, but we know that the bible, including the truths therein was inspired by the "living" spirit of God. Paul I think was an effective teacher in that the people he approached, he did with compassion. It wasn't the fear and tormented vibe I tend to see fromt he old testament. THE B EST
I wish him the worst of luck for the rest of his life....******..I've been ther | |
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From Dictionary.com:
dis·ci·ple
1. Religion. a. one of the 12 personal followers of Christ. b. one of the 70 followers sent forth by Christ. Luke 10:1. c. any other professed follower of Christ in His lifetime. 2. any follower of Christ. 3. (initial capital letter) a member of the Disciples of Christ. 4. a person who is a pupil or an adherent of the doctrines of another; follower: a disciple of Freud. I am a disciple of Christ.
Paul most certainly qualifies under that second definition. Although he was not one of "The 12", he is referred to in the Scriptures as an "apostle to the nations" (Romans 11:13). Galatians 1:1 refers to the fact that Paul was, indeed, chosen by Christ for this assignment. Acts 9:1-22 (written by Luke) describes Paul's conversion and the wary disbelief of it by Christians at the time -- even of the disciple Ananias, whom Jesus directed to go see about Paul. In fact, Paul’s apostleship was disputed by some in his day (just like today), making it necessary for him to declare frequently his appointment from the Lord. (1 Cor. 9:1, 2; Acts 1:22; 1 Cor. 15:8-10; 2 Cor. 12:12). Acts 9:1-22: 1 But Saul, still breathing threat and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, in order that he might bring bound to Jerusalem any whom he found who belonged to The Way, both men and women.
3 Now as he was traveling he approached Damascus, when suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him, 4 and he fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him: “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” 5 He said: “Who are you, Lord?” He said: “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. 6 Nevertheless, rise and enter into the city, and what you must do will be told you.” 7 Now the men that were journeying with him were standing speechless, hearing, indeed, the sound of a voice, but not beholding any man. 8 But Saul got up from the ground, and though his eyes were opened he was seeing nothing. So they led him by the hand and conducted him into Damascus. 9 And for three days he did not see anything, and he neither ate nor drank. 10 There was in Damascus a certain disciple named An·a·ni´as, and the Lord said to him in a vision: “An·a·ni´as!” He said: “Here I am, Lord.” 11 The Lord said to him: “Rise, go to the street called Straight, and at the house of Judas look for a man named Saul, from Tarsus. For, look! he is praying, 12 and in a vision he has seen a man named An·a·ni´as come in and lay his hands upon him that he might recover sight.” 13 But An·a·ni´as answered: “Lord, I have heard from many about this man, how many injurious things he did to your holy ones in Jerusalem. 14 And here he has authority from the chief priests to put in bonds all those calling upon your name.” 15 But the Lord said to him: “Be on your way, because this man is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel. 16 For I shall show him plainly how many things he must suffer for my name.” 17 So An·a·ni´as went off and entered into the house, and he laid his hands upon him and said: “Saul, brother, the Lord, the Jesus that appeared to you on the road over which you were coming, has sent me forth, in order that you may recover sight and be filled with holy spirit.” 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes what looked like scales, and he recovered sight; and he rose and was baptized, 19 and he took food and gained strength. He got to be for some days with the disciples in Damascus, 20 and immediately in the synagogues he began to preach Jesus, that this One is the Son of God. 21 But all those hearing him gave way to astonishment and would say: “Is this not the man that ravaged those in Jerusalem who call upon this name, and that had come here for this very purpose, that he might lead them bound to the chief priests?” 22 But Saul kept on acquiring power all the more and was confounding the Jews that dwelt in Damascus as he proved logically that this is the Christ. From the above passage, it appears that Jesus did speak to Paul. Therefore, any issues or disputes about the validity of Paul's teachings would be the going against what is included in the Holy Bible. I think it's crucial that whenever someone who claims to put faith in the Bible has a problem with something in it, that they recall this statement from Ezekiel 18:25: 25 “‘And you people will certainly say: “The way of Jehovah is not adjusted right.” Hear, please, O house of Israel. Is not my own way adjusted right? Are not the ways of you people not adjusted right?
Pretty much, we're the ones who have to be readjusted -- not God. [Edited 8/28/07 17:14pm] | |
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And to answer the question --
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bluesbaby said: JDODSONandFlashpointe said: But as someone pointed out, he was the replacement for Judas and was not one of the originals. Barnabas or someone replaced Judas. Not Paul. Not in esoteric circles. There's a reason Paul is 13....  | |
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meow85 said: If you mean Paul...then no. Paul ranted about the evils of faggotry, and said women should be made to shut up in church. Christ-like? Not unless there's a big missing chunk of the Bible wherein Jesus taught the subjugation of women and dismissal of non-straight people was God's way.
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hopefully, their actions of love spoke louder than their words..i don't remember being there so i am not qualified to comment on this. however, i have seen one embodied today that seems to have been one of the disciples by watching his devotion and commitment of love, prayer, and service to the Divine. there is so much beauty in the present time... ~dueno de nada~ | |
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As far is a know, NONE of the Books (Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John or Acts) were written by any of the Original 12 Disciples who's names were used for the "books." They were all written long after they were dead. They may be the sources of the stories which were passed down in the oral tradition but they were not written down for many years. | |
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I think the Bible teaches God's Word very well, regardless of who the actual authors are. I think it is interpretation of that Word which does not do a good job of speaking for Jesus. ing one day about racial prejudice, Paramahansa Yogananda said, "God is not pleased to be insulted when He wears His dark suits." | |
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JDODSONandFlashpointe said: bluesbaby said: Barnabas or someone replaced Judas. Not Paul. Not in esoteric circles. There's a reason Paul is 13.... whats the for.A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on progress of social uplift is approaching spiritual death."-MLK, Jr. | |
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Frankly, because we have no examples of text directly written by Jesus, we've nothing against which to measure the accounts in books attributed to Matthew, Mark, Luke or John, the only four of the original 12 who are traditionally ascribed authorship of parts of the canonized New Testament. That is to say, whether, in fact, Matthew, Mark, Luke or John actually did write their own books, or others penned them later, attaching the names of these respected men to lend an air of credibility (as was common practice throughout the Hellenized world), 100 percent of what we know about Jesus by way of scripture, we know through second or, possibly, third, forth (...etc?) parties.
________________
Sundiata J., Prince fan extraordinaire. R.I.P., brother. | |
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JDODSONandFlashpointe said: bluesbaby said: Barnabas or someone replaced Judas. Not Paul. Not in esoteric circles. There's a reason Paul is 13.... Matthias is 13th, J. (Acts 1:21-26) ...And hi, BTW!   Haven't chatted with you in awhile, man.[Edited 9/1/07 22:45pm] ________________
Sundiata J., Prince fan extraordinaire. R.I.P., brother. | |
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