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Forbidden to research? In the Jehovah's Witness Kingdom Ministry for Sept 2007, (Week commencing Sep 10th - elder to take audience discussion for 15 mins) it states that the faithful and discreet slave (Governing Body) does not approve of Jehovah's Witnesses independently getting together to examine and debate Biblicial topics.
* Does "the faithful and discreet slave" endorse independent groups of Witnesses who meet together to engage in Scriptural research or debate?–Matt. 24:45, 47.
No, it does not. And yet, in various parts of the world, a few associates of our organization have formed groups to do independent research on Bible-related subjects. Some have pursued an independent group study of Biblical Hebrew and Greek so as to analyze the accuracy of the New World Translation. Others explore scientific subjects related to the Bible. They have created Web sites and chat rooms for the purpose of exchanging and debating their views. They have also held conferences and produced publications to present their findings and to supplement what is provided at our Christian meetings and through our literature. Throughout the earth, Jehovah's people are receiving ample spiritual instruction and encouragement at congregation meetings, assemblies, and conventions, as well as through the publications of Jehovah's organization. Under the guidance of his holy spirit and on the basis of his Word of truth, Jehovah provides what is needed so that all of God's people may be "fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought" and remain "stabilized in the faith." (1 Cor. 1:10; Col. 2:6, 7) Surely we are grateful for Jehovah's spiritual provisions in these last days. Thus, "the faithful and discreet slave" does not endorse any literature, meetings, or Web sites that are not produced or organized under its oversight.–Matt. 24:45-47. It is commendable for individuals to want to use their thinking ability in support of the good news. However, no personal pursuit should detract from what Jesus Christ is accomplishing through his congregation on earth today. In the first century, the apostle Paul warned about getting involved in exhausting, time-consuming subjects, such as "genealogies, which end up in nothing, but which furnish questions for research rather than a dispensing of anything by God in connection with faith." (1 Tim. 1:3-7) All Christians should strive to "shun foolish questionings and genealogies and strife and fights over the Law, for they are unprofitable and futile."–Titus 3:9. For those who wish to do extra Bible study and research, we recommend that they explore Insight on the Scriptures, "All Scripture Is Inspired of God and Beneficial," and our other publications, such as those that discuss the prophecies found in the Bible books of Daniel, Isaiah, and Revelation. These provide abundant material for Bible study and meditation, whereby we can be "filled with the accurate knowledge of [God's] will in all wisdom and spiritual comprehension, in order to walk worthily of Jehovah to the end of fully pleasing him as [we] go on bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the accurate knowledge of God."–Col. 1:9, 10. 
So, am I reading this correctly? The first paragraph clearly says that the Society does not endorse independent groups who engage in Scriptural research or debate. The second part goes beyond not endorsing and tries to show that such "personal pursuit" is a waste of time and not fruitful. The last paragraph, I think, is the most significant, essentially saying the Society's publications are okay. And this is the whole point of the article. The Society's publications are okay--everything else and everyone else is not okay and you need to stay away from it. Is that it? [Edited 8/1/07 2:03am] ONLY LOSERS FEAR A MORE LEVEL PLAYING FIELD~~Sananda Maitreya Beware of men that will not go down! (I wish my momma had taught me all this)-BklynBabe | |
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actually, i can't say as i blame them. if i were trying to keep my devotees on a very short leash, squashing independent thought and only allowing them to read or listen to my voice is one of the best ways to do so. "passing strange"... experience the real
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  "I am the way, the truth and the life; No man cometh unto the father, but by me." - Jesus of Nazareth (John 14:6) | |
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"passing strange"... experience the real
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obviously, i don't have devotees and am totally against this kind of control, but...
"passing strange"... experience the real
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cborgman said: obviously, i don't have devotees and am totally against this kind of control, but...
if you are going to attempt to have extreme control over a group of people, this is one of the best ways to do it. you start by only approving certain literature and other media outside of your own, then you limit the reading of your literature to only the approved reading so there is little possibility of any interpretation other than the one you want being shown. didn't 1984 do pretty much the same kinds of things with the television screens that only show the propaganda they want shown? it's been a looooong time since i read it. [Edited 8/1/07 9:03am] Well, I can only say that Christianity has no such control at all like this. Everyone and anyone is free to research and study as they will. At least in independent, Bible believing churches I attend and know of. (As it is supposed to be.) "I am the way, the truth and the life; No man cometh unto the father, but by me." - Jesus of Nazareth (John 14:6) | |
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Eternaldragon said: cborgman said: obviously, i don't have devotees and am totally against this kind of control, but...
if you are going to attempt to have extreme control over a group of people, this is one of the best ways to do it. you start by only approving certain literature and other media outside of your own, then you limit the reading of your literature to only the approved reading so there is little possibility of any interpretation other than the one you want being shown. didn't 1984 do pretty much the same kinds of things with the television screens that only show the propaganda they want shown? it's been a looooong time since i read it. [Edited 8/1/07 9:03am] Well, I can only say that Christianity has no such control at all like this. Everyone and anyone is free to research and study as they will. At least in independent, Bible believing churches I attend and know of. (As it is supposed to be.) yea, this is specific to the jws not general christianity, and is a fairly clear example of an attempt at thought control. "passing strange"... experience the real
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cborgman said: Eternaldragon said: Well, I can only say that Christianity has no such control at all like this. Everyone and anyone is free to research and study as they will. At least in independent, Bible believing churches I attend and know of. (As it is supposed to be.) yea, this is specific to the jws not general christianity, and is a fairly clear example of an attempt at thought control. all religion is thought control it is necessary to help others, not only in our prayers, but in our daily lives. If we find we cannot help others, the least we can do is to desist from harming them.
Dalai Lama |
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ehuffnsd said: cborgman said: yea, this is specific to the jws not general christianity, and is a fairly clear example of an attempt at thought control. all religion is thought control while that may or may not be, this is a whole other level of thought control. i don't know of many religions that forbif independant study of their holy book. "passing strange"... experience the real
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cborgman said: ehuffnsd said: all religion is thought control while that may or may not be, this is a whole other level of thought control. i don't know of many religions that forbif independant study of their holy book. Mormons aren't allowed to question the orgins of the Book of Mormon. it is necessary to help others, not only in our prayers, but in our daily lives. If we find we cannot help others, the least we can do is to desist from harming them.
Dalai Lama |
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ehuffnsd said: cborgman said: while that may or may not be, this is a whole other level of thought control. i don't know of many religions that forbif independant study of their holy book. Mormons aren't allowed to question the orgins of the Book of Mormon. in my opinion, that's not quite as big as being forbidden to discuss the book of mormon as a group except when sanctioned and run by the church. and the mormons are pretty crazy too. "passing strange"... experience the real
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ehuffnsd said: cborgman said: while that may or may not be, this is a whole other level of thought control. i don't know of many religions that forbif independant study of their holy book. Mormons aren't allowed to question the orgins of the Book of Mormon. The key phrase is "independent groups of Witnesses". We are encourage all the time to do personal study; family study as well. We are also encouraged to invite other witnesses to study with us for good association. However "independent" groups? Is that not how so many sects have been formed in Christendom? The Bible admonishes all to be united and to speak in agreement in harmony with the Holy Scriptures. If some want to go off on their own and develop teachings other than those they accepted, then I suppose they have that right. Maybe they can also choose a different name...say "Jehovah's Independent Witnesses"?  So...how's everybody doing?  | |
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SensualMelody said: ehuffnsd said: Mormons aren't allowed to question the orgins of the Book of Mormon. The key phrase is "independent groups of Witnesses". We are encourage all the time to do personal study; family study as well. We are also encouraged to invite other witnesses to study with us for good association. However "independent" groups? Is that not how so many sects have been formed in Christendom? The Bible admonishes all to be united and to speak in agreement in harmony with the Holy Scriptures. If some want to go off on their own and develop teachings other than those they accepted, then I suppose they have that right. Maybe they can also choose a different name...say "Jehovah's Independent Witnesses"? what differs a family or a group of people from independant groups? "passing strange"... experience the real
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anyone? "passing strange"... experience the real
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just another bunch of religious nutters who believe that there is some kind of real authority in the world, and that they are tapped into it. Life is flesh on bone convulsing above the ground. Everyone is aware that life is parodic and that it lacks an interpretation. | |
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EvoLTwiin said: just another bunch of religious nutters who believe that there is some kind of real authority in the world, and that they are tapped into it.
so, i am confused, david. when you post under this account, is it you posting, or is this account a character account where you say the opposite of what you believe? "passing strange"... experience the real
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SensualMelody said: ehuffnsd said: Mormons aren't allowed to question the orgins of the Book of Mormon. The key phrase is "independent groups of Witnesses". We are encourage all the time to do personal study; family study as well. We are also encouraged to invite other witnesses to study with us for good association. However "independent" groups? Is that not how so many sects have been formed in Christendom? The Bible admonishes all to be united and to speak in agreement in harmony with the Holy Scriptures. If some want to go off on their own and develop teachings other than those they accepted, then I suppose they have that right. Maybe they can also choose a different name...say "Jehovah's Independent Witnesses"? true if there weren't independent groups everyone would still be Catholic. it is necessary to help others, not only in our prayers, but in our daily lives. If we find we cannot help others, the least we can do is to desist from harming them.
Dalai Lama |
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cborgman said: EvoLTwiin said: just another bunch of religious nutters who believe that there is some kind of real authority in the world, and that they are tapped into it.
so, i am confused, david. when you post under this account, is it you posting, or is this account a character account where you say the opposite of what you believe? oh, follow up question... when you are "evoltwiin", are we allowed to address you as david, or does the character have a different name we must address him or her by? "passing strange"... experience the real
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cborgman said: cborgman said: so, i am confused, david. when you post under this account, is it you posting, or is this account a character account where you say the opposite of what you believe? oh, follow up question... when you are "evoltwiin", are we allowed to address you as david, or does the character have a different name we must address him or her by? we should call him Goliath in this persona it is necessary to help others, not only in our prayers, but in our daily lives. If we find we cannot help others, the least we can do is to desist from harming them.
Dalai Lama |
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ehuffnsd said: cborgman said: oh, follow up question... when you are "evoltwiin", are we allowed to address you as david, or does the character have a different name we must address him or her by? we should call him Goliath in this persona
i think we should call him Sybil in any of his personas. it's become the fittingly famous name for a person with dissociative identity disorder (formerly known as multiple personality disorder) thanks to the book and movie. [Edited 8/1/07 18:48pm] "passing strange"... experience the real
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cborgman said: ehuffnsd said: we should call him Goliath in this persona
i think we should call him Sybil in any of his personas. it's become the fittingly famous name for a person with dissociative identity disorder (formerly known as multiple personality disorder) thanks to the book and movie. [Edited 8/1/07 18:48pm] Sybil it is!! it is necessary to help others, not only in our prayers, but in our daily lives. If we find we cannot help others, the least we can do is to desist from harming them.
Dalai Lama |
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cborgman said: cborgman said: so, i am confused, david. when you post under this account, is it you posting, or is this account a character account where you say the opposite of what you believe? oh, follow up question... when you are "evoltwiin", are we allowed to address you as david, or does the character have a different name we must address him or her by? you can call me Zagreus, the Dismembered One. thanks. Life is flesh on bone convulsing above the ground. Everyone is aware that life is parodic and that it lacks an interpretation. | |
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cborgman said: ehuffnsd said: we should call him Goliath in this persona
i think we should call him Sybil in any of his personas. it's become the fittingly famous name for a person with dissociative identity disorder (formerly known as multiple personality disorder) thanks to the book and movie. [Edited 8/1/07 18:48pm] Does this mean that greenpixies might still be his... mother! (slap) his sister! (slap) his mother! (slap) his mother and his sister? "I got the devil in me, girl." - 'John the Baptist', Afghan Whigs
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noimageatall said: ...So, am I reading this correctly? The first paragraph clearly says that the Society does not endorse independent groups who engage in Scriptural research or debate. The second part goes beyond not endorsing and tries to show that such "personal pursuit" is a waste of time and not fruitful. The last paragraph, I think, is the most significant, essentially saying the Society's publications are okay. And this is the whole point of the article. The Society's publications are okay--everything else and everyone else is not okay and you need to stay away from it. Is that it?...
So you've discovered another reilgion that is out of order (on dodgy ground iow). Big wow. They are all out of order in one way or another. As is atheism. --------
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andyf said: noimageatall said: ...So, am I reading this correctly? The first paragraph clearly says that the Society does not endorse independent groups who engage in Scriptural research or debate. The second part goes beyond not endorsing and tries to show that such "personal pursuit" is a waste of time and not fruitful. The last paragraph, I think, is the most significant, essentially saying the Society's publications are okay. And this is the whole point of the article. The Society's publications are okay--everything else and everyone else is not okay and you need to stay away from it. Is that it?...
So you've discovered another reilgion that is out of order (on dodgy ground iow). Big wow. They are all out of order in one way or another. As is atheism. Whats out of order about atheism? It has no defined rules beyond "I don't believe in that, because theres no good reason to". Glug, glug like a mug | |
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ehuffnsd said: we should call him Goliath in this persona Oooh, I like that. Life is flesh on bone convulsing above the ground. Everyone is aware that life is parodic and that it lacks an interpretation. | |
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cborgman said: EvoLTwiin said: just another bunch of religious nutters who believe that there is some kind of real authority in the world, and that they are tapped into it.
so, i am confused, david. when you post under this account, is it you posting, or is this account a character account where you say the opposite of what you believe? I'm saying I don't believe in authority. I mean, these JWs believe that real authority exists here on earth, as if some god actually invest some people with it! Such nuttery and mind control. Glad to see you take 'em to task for it. Life is flesh on bone convulsing above the ground. Everyone is aware that life is parodic and that it lacks an interpretation. | |
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SpecialEd said: andyf said: So you've discovered another reilgion that is out of order (on dodgy ground iow). Big wow. They are all out of order in one way or another. As is atheism. Whats out of order about atheism? It has no defined rules beyond "I don't believe in that, because theres no good reason to". --------
"Someone who makes you laugh when you wanna cry" | |
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Eternaldragon said: cborgman said: obviously, i don't have devotees and am totally against this kind of control, but...
if you are going to attempt to have extreme control over a group of people, this is one of the best ways to do it. you start by only approving certain literature and other media outside of your own, then you limit the reading of your literature to only the approved reading so there is little possibility of any interpretation other than the one you want being shown. didn't 1984 do pretty much the same kinds of things with the television screens that only show the propaganda they want shown? it's been a looooong time since i read it. [Edited 8/1/07 9:03am] Well, I can only say that Christianity has no such control at all like this. Everyone and anyone is free to research and study as they will. At least in independent, Bible believing churches I attend and know of. (As it is supposed to be.) To me, this seems like something all relatively young religions do. Christianity used to do this by the clever way of distributing the Bible only in Latin, actively preventing any translation into common languages and thereby establishing a monopoly on doctrine. "this especially prepared potato is called pomme de terre" | |
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andyf said: noimageatall said: ...So, am I reading this correctly? The first paragraph clearly says that the Society does not endorse independent groups who engage in Scriptural research or debate. The second part goes beyond not endorsing and tries to show that such "personal pursuit" is a waste of time and not fruitful. The last paragraph, I think, is the most significant, essentially saying the Society's publications are okay. And this is the whole point of the article. The Society's publications are okay--everything else and everyone else is not okay and you need to stay away from it. Is that it?...
So you've discovered another reilgion that is out of order (on dodgy ground iow). Big wow. They are all out of order in one way or another. As is atheism. Atheism is on dodgy ground, how? "this especially prepared potato is called pomme de terre" | |
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