POOK clears a few things up

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POOK clears a few things up

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[Edited 10/11/04 20:58pm]

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SupaFunkyOrgan
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Reply #1 posted 09/16/04 11:00am

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I bet you guys never knew how smart this monkey really is biggrin And he makes kick ass mix CDs! nod

2009: Mermaids and Dolphins...

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Reply #2 posted 09/16/04 11:08am

Duncelot

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POOK CAN DO COMPLETE SENTENCE?

DUNCELOT BE VERY SURPRISED eek

THEN AGAIN ME JUST BE dunce

Flat Earth - Finally Learn the truth!
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Reply #3 posted 09/16/04 11:20am

sosgemini

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thanks pook for sharing your history and giving us a better understanding of who you are and why you think the way you do..

im not sure about the whole "bullshit" statement though..... who bequeathed you the obiter of truth? cant we all just share our perspectives and debate the validity of our views without calling people out or judging?

nevermind.....anyways, thanks for giving me a better a sense of who you are...

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

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Reply #4 posted 09/16/04 11:23am

teller

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eek

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[Edited 9/16/04 11:23am]

Fear is the mind-killer.

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Reply #5 posted 09/16/04 11:53am

Teacher

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POOK said:

I never wanted this to happen, but he brought up these stories in response, and as a counterpoint, to something I was trying to say. I have said in several recent threads that the gay struggle is not comparable to the African-American struggle for equality, which I still do believe. However, as Anxiety so succinctly put it (he really has a knack for this), racism and homophobia are apples and oranges, however, apples and oranges are both fruit that grow on trees. There is a comparison, however, this comparison has been presented incorrectly on the "Org."

I made the point that discrimination against homosexuals is based on behavior. What I meant to say is that discrimination is based on perceived behavior, and perceived thought. Please read the below list of atrocities commited on Supa. Every one of those things, every single one, has happened to me in childhood and high school. From being called a "faggot" because of the way I dress, to the simulated jock rape, to the fight challenges - all of it. Was I gay then? No. Am I gay now? No. But it was their perception that set them off.

So whether you want to admit this or not, people perceive "gay" behavior. What's code for saying a guy is gay? It's the invoked limp wrist, not pantomiming fucking a man in the ass. Ever heard the gay lisp? Do you really think people are making this up? For goodness sake, all most people know of gays is "Will and Grace" and "Queer Eye," which are both essentially guides to gay behavior. If that's all you know of gays, and you see some of those characteristics or traits in a straight man, and you're an idiot, you're going to think that man is gay. That is incredibly wrong, but it happens.

I disagree with you, even though racism and sexism is like apples and oranges they're BOTH based on a percieved reality, not an absolute. Ask a racist why he's a racist, and he'll say "blacks are stupid" or "chileans are thiefs". Is that a fact? NO. It's the truth as he percieves it to be. I will not belabor the point but saying different kinds of discriminating makes for different treatment or creates different situations, is just plain wrong. There is a reason why I get ballistic when friends of mine are discriminated or threatened, because I've stood up for them ALL my life, regardless of whether it was racism or sexism being exhibited. The names being called are different, but the hurt, reactions and effects are the same. To separate racism and sexism from each other is like fanning out not to get hit by heavy artillery fire - it works until you're face to face with the enemy, then you'll get hurt anyway.

twocents

Welcome to the world, my nephew - Mio http://prince.org/msg/100/322798

Hockey season underway! woot!

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Reply #6 posted 09/16/04 11:56am

TheOrgerFormer lyKnownAs	Whatever dude. Some much of what I have seen you post in this forum makes my head swim and my jaw drop. Seriously, I think that I need to stay the fuck out of this forum all together. It is testosterone-driven and I get ignored so much that it really pisses me off. I wonder if it's because I'm a chick or if I'm not as educated as some.
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Reply #7 posted 09/16/04 11:58am

Teacher

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TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

Whatever dude. Some much of what I have seen you post in this forum makes my head swim and my jaw drop. Seriously, I think that I need to stay the fuck out of this forum all together. It is testosterone-driven and I get ignored so much that it really pisses me off. I wonder if it's because I'm a chick or if I'm not as educated as some.

It's because you say such right-to-the-point things, and you happen to be a gay woman. Threatens the straight males in ALL kinds of ways rolleyes

Welcome to the world, my nephew - Mio http://prince.org/msg/100/322798

Hockey season underway! woot!

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Reply #8 posted 09/16/04 12:00pm

Anxiety

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

you contribute some really amazing things, actually. speaking for myself, i'm sorry if i don't say that more often. i only pop my head in here occasionally myself, but i know that sometimes the energy is really challenging at times and at other times it's just plain depressing and borderline draconian. don't let it get to ya. it's like we say about another little corner of cyberspace...it's what ya make it. comfort

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Reply #9 posted 09/16/04 12:09pm

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[Edited 10/11/04 20:58pm]

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Reply #10 posted 09/16/04 12:22pm

POOK said:

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

Hey now. I do apologize if I've ignored you when you're addressing my posts. Education has nothing to do with how smart you are or how relevant your opinion is. I've always thought you represent yourself well and your posts make sense, but that doesn't mean I need to respond. People most likely nod their head as they read their post, but since it doesn't spur them to further thought, ask a question, or offend them, they feel no need to reply.

As a straight male, I can say your posts don't offend or threaten. Do you really think people ignore you because you're a woman? Is that why you changed your avatar?

Sometimes I reply directly to guys' posts in here and don't get a response back. I think sometimes that some of the men in this forum think I am an idiot. Yes, I do feel like I get ignored because I am a woman and no that's not why I changed my avatar.

Look Pook, some of the stuff you say about gays is offensive to me. I can't really get upset over that because you are entitled to your opinion.

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Reply #11 posted 09/16/04 12:26pm

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[Edited 10/11/04 20:59pm]

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SupaFunkyOrgan
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Reply #12 posted 09/16/04 12:30pm

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POOK said:

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

Well, I don't think you're an idiot.

And you can get upset. Anger is an emotion that can be used for good or evil. That having been said, don't scream at your monitor after POOK posts something; people will think you're crazy.

2009: Mermaids and Dolphins...

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Reply #13 posted 09/16/04 12:35pm

sosgemini

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TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

POOK said:

ive always enjoyed your comments....my comments (and my threads) get ignored too.....theres a latenight talk show mentality slowly creeping into this forum...people will step into a thread, post a soundbites responce and then dont check the thread for responces....its a very immature way to discuss issues..expecially when the topic is personal and emotional.....you are the antithesis of that....so sit down and stay put!! wink

Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

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Reply #14 posted 09/16/04 1:19pm

LovesexyIsThe1

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SupaFunkyOrgangrinderSexy said:

I bet you guys never knew how smart this monkey really is biggrin

And he makes kick ass mix CDs! nod

Are you kidding? I knew POOK was a smart m**f**. He'd have to be to make those crazy sentences his posts always have... plus they're as funny as hell, so he must be a comedic genius too.

Lovesexy Funkateer

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Reply #15 posted 09/16/04 1:21pm

sosgemini said:

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

Sos, I feel what you're saying. I don't think anything's more irritating than the hit and run people. This forum has grown a lot but it's main problem will always be the folks who don't know what debate is and only what to show others how knowledgeable they THINK are. i deal with folks on a regular everyday joe type of level. Some people can't.

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Reply #16 posted 09/16/04 1:25pm

sosgemini said:

TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs said:

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Reply #17 posted 09/16/04 1:49pm

CynthiasSocks

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POOK said:

'POOK clears a few things up'

No, not really.

Drew, Stu, & Mushu

Socks still got butt like a leather seat...

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Reply #18 posted 09/16/04 1:50pm

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[Edited 10/11/04 20:59pm]

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Reply #19 posted 09/16/04 8:58pm

Lammastide

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POOK, man, not to sound like a jerk, but I couldn't care less who you are, whether you're a Hitler-worshipping uber bigot or the most bleeding-heart, rainbow-wearing Chelsea queen in the world. Your posts -- like those of all orgers with whom I've had no more personal interaction -- are simply letters on a screen to me; instances of detached rhetoric that I need either to explode, co-sign or ignore. This joint should never be a place to take things personally... unless somebody's dissing Wendy Melvoin or somethin'. shrug

That said, it's cool that you put yourself out here like this. I hope it helps you to feel better understood.

BUT... lol

...I still think your line of thinking on this subject is shoddy. I'll take it up in the thread about Coretta Scott King tomorrow. I won't jack this important personal thread. Ciao.
[Edited 9/16/04 21:00pm]

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Reply #20 posted 09/16/04 9:25pm

TheMax

Pook, you can't sugarcoat your clear homophobic leanings, nor should you feel compelled to do so. There are people with equally offensive opinions that are tolerated and debated here and elsewhere.

Nonetheless, it is clear to me from your posts that you don't accept the natural occurrence of homosexuality, and your experiences in chidhood only serve to reinforce the notion that bad people attack and discriminate against those who they perceive to be somehow different.

It's wrong, Pook, whether you are biologically gay or just perceived to be gay. Violence and discrimination are the tools of ignorance.

"When they tell me 2 walk a straight line, I put on crooked shoes"

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Reply #21 posted 09/16/04 9:46pm

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TheMax said:

Any perceived "clear homophobic leanings" are what I'm trying to shake off here. I've said in thread after thread after thread that anyone who gives anyone a hard time for any reason needs to look at themselves first. "Let he who is without sin," you understand. I'll explain it another way: that means I'm not anti-gay, or think that gay people are somehow less than or below me as humans. I'm also not afraid ("phobic"), and you've never seen me use slang for gays, attack anyone personally, or put anyone down (once, I said Michael Stipe called himself a "queer artist," which is a direct quote, and that's as close as I've ever come to using an epithet.)

I am not gay myself. But apparently, nobody wants diverse opinion here, they just want a big party for their side. That's great. Just don't label me a homophobe because I disagree on certain points, or because I speak my mind. That's unfair. And don't tell me that someone's upbringing or sexual history can't change their orientation - Um, TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs? Can I get a witness? Probably not. Unless I stand as a cheerleader for your cause, I'm the enemy.

I'll just say this one more time: In none of these discrimination/violence posts have I even said homosexuality was wrong. I think a lot of you are wrong about me, and POOK's posts. So be it! This forum needs more poo flung at it anyway. So here's poo in your eye. SQUOOSH!

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Reply #22 posted 09/16/04 9:49pm

Anxiety	I don't think POOK is homophobic. I'm critical of what he's been saying today (and maybe even a bit disappointed), but I don't think he's homophobic.
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Reply #23 posted 09/16/04 9:51pm

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[Edited 10/11/04 20:59pm]

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Reply #24 posted 09/16/04 9:52pm

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Anxiety said:

I don't think POOK is homophobic. I'm critical of what he's been saying today (and maybe even a bit disappointed), but I don't think he's homophobic.

OK, that's good enough for me. Night all, see you in caps tomorrow.

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Reply #25 posted 09/17/04 6:02am

POOK said:

And don't tell me that someone's upbringing or sexual history can't change their orientation - Um, TheOrgerFormerlyKnownAs? Can I get a witness? Probably not. Unless I stand as a cheerleader for your cause, I'm the enemy.

Huh? What is this supposed to mean? That my sexual orientation is a result of upbringing(which it is not) or you want me to agree that upbringing or sexual history can change someone's orientation? Of course I can agree to that. My feelings about what you have said lately have nothing to with wanting anyone to be a cheerleader for my cause. I don't give a fuck about that. I couldn't give two pumps and a stroke about whether someone straight believes that I was born gay or not. I disagree with a lot of people in this forum on this subject and we're still cool. I dunno, Pook. Some things you say just rub me funny but all and all, I can still love and respect you.

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Reply #26 posted 09/17/04 6:23am

Dancelot

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POOK said:

My gut tells me that abortion is murder, and Bush is against that, so he gets my vote.

my gut tells me the same. but "war" is what then exactly if not murder, in your eyes?

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[Edited 9/17/04 6:25am]

“Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid.” Han Solo

"I distrust those people who know so well what God wants them to do, because I notice it always coincides with their own desires. " Susan B. Anthony

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Reply #27 posted 09/17/04 6:26am

ElectricPurple	POOK U want a banna u must be hungry after such a debate. p.s. we think u did good for your self. Good on Ya. The DownLoad Society using The Electric Purple
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Reply #28 posted 09/17/04 6:36am

Dancelot said:

POOK said:

My gut tells me that abortion is murder, and Bush is against that, so he gets my vote.

my gut tells me the same. but "war" is what then exactly if not murder, in your eyes?

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[Edited 9/17/04 6:25am]

I wasn't even gonna say anything about that part of Pook's post. Murder is legal here, day in and day out in the form of executions.

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Reply #29 posted 09/17/04 8:43am

Anxiety

i really don't know how much more energy i wanna put into deconstructing pook (or the person pulling the pook strings), but at the same time, i think he put himself out there by starting this thread, so it's not as if all of these comments are uninvited...

i stand by what i said earlier in this thread. i don't think pook is a homophobe. i've seen homophobes. i've encountered them. pook is at least asking questions and throwing out the perceptions he's had rolling around in his head, and as long as he's letting in some of the contrary responses as potentially corrective (if indeed they are), i think it's admirable of him to have the vulnerability to state his thoughts, even if they are not seen as "correct".

the only way to grow is to throw your shit out there and see what happens. if you can do that respectfully and with a minimum of defensiveness (which can sometimes be really hard in these situations, granted), everyone stands to walk away a little more enlighted from it.

i think everyone has an idealized version of what their experience is, and when certain sensibilities challenge those ideals, it can become threatening. i'm seeing that happen on both sides of the fence with this whole pook/homophobia/racism issue. i think it's great if certain folks - women, gays, people of color, etc. - can enlighten folks to their/our experience and kinda fill in some blanks as to what life is like and what challenges pop up. it's a great thing about the good ol' intraweb. we can compare notes on this kinda stuff.

i guess the important thing to keep in mind is that we all, regardless of our ideals or our experiences, should be mindful to step back from ourselves and try to comprehend the person on the other side of the fence. i think pook is really trying to understand. i think he has a certain point of view based on his experience. i think he possesses both insight and ignorance, as do we all.

i'm not trying to apologize or "make nice" with regards to the stuff our little monkey friend has put out there over the past couple of days. i'm just wondering how far this dialog could go with a little bit of understanding on both sides of the fence.

did any of that make sense?

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