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John 15:19 (question for JWs regarding Williams sisters) Hi, I didn't want to hijack the main thread but I do believe this is about John 15:19. I heard over the weekend that the Williams sisters (Venus and Serena) are going to participate in the Olympics. Are they still JWs? How can they do this in light of John 15:19?
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good question..... Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. | |
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Sounds like you answered your own question "if in fact" they are still JWs.
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OdysseyMiles said: Sounds like you answered your own question "if in fact" they are still JWs.
You know what the scripture says. You see what the Olympics are about. There ya go. good answer..... Welcome to the New World Odor and
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OdysseyMiles said: Sounds like you answered your own question "if in fact" they are still JWs.
You know what the scripture says. You see what the Olympics are about. There ya go. Wimbledon week @ KH with relatives. They are in fact still witnesses of Jehovah. | |
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CeeJay said: OdysseyMiles said: Sounds like you answered your own question "if in fact" they are still JWs.
You know what the scripture says. You see what the Olympics are about. There ya go. Wimbledon week @ KH with relatives. They are in fact still witnesses of Jehovah. That's what I thought. In fact they also participated in the 2000 Olympic games. Seems to me they should've been DF'ed years ago. I guess this is another example of the Society "bending the scriptures" for celebrities (great for PR) and other "important people." David | |
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DavidSF said: CeeJay said: Wimbledon week @ KH with relatives. They are in fact still witnesses of Jehovah. That's what I thought. In fact they also participated in the 2000 Olympic games. Seems to me they should've been DF'ed years ago. I guess this is another example of the Society "bending the scriptures" for celebrities (great for PR) and other "important people." David if it's so great for PR why don't they make it into a commercial about how great it is to be JW or something like that? i didn't even know they were witnesses until someone here on this site told me a month or so ago. and remember, whatever we hear second or third hand, is just that. secondhand information. unless the williams sisters themselves say "i am baptized as one of JWs" or they come out in service with me, i'm afraid it's just hard to believe all of it. heck, i still have a hard time believing prince is JW. (and can you really blame me?) but basically, what it comes down to is, whether they are or aren't isn't really our business. if they're doing something wrong the elders in their congregation will handle it. and even if nothing happens to them now, it doesn't really matter. Jehovah sees everything. whether the elders say it's ok and it really isn't, they aren't fooling Jehovah. | |
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fantasyislander said: DavidSF said: That's what I thought. In fact they also participated in the 2000 Olympic games. Seems to me they should've been DF'ed years ago. I guess this is another example of the Society "bending the scriptures" for celebrities (great for PR) and other "important people." David if it's so great for PR why don't they make it into a commercial about how great it is to be JW or something like that? i didn't even know they were witnesses until someone here on this site told me a month or so ago. and remember, whatever we hear second or third hand, is just that. secondhand information. unless the williams sisters themselves say "i am baptized as one of JWs" or they come out in service with me, i'm afraid it's just hard to believe all of it. heck, i still have a hard time believing prince is JW. (and can you really blame me?) but basically, what it comes down to is, whether they are or aren't isn't really our business. if they're doing something wrong the elders in their congregation will handle it. and even if nothing happens to them now, it doesn't really matter. Jehovah sees everything. whether the elders say it's ok and it really isn't, they aren't fooling Jehovah. 
The Sisters on TV broadcasted & anounced 2 the world "I am a Jehovah's Witness". How would u feel if others denied u as a brother or sister in faith? They r ur sisters. [b]Venus and Serena Williams were raised as Jehovah's Witnesses by their mother After winning the French and Wimbledon back to back year 2002 Serena exclaimed "Thanks to Jehovah God". 2000 U.S. Open interview. Q. Going back to the Olympics, the International Olympic Committee have just announced they'll test for EPO, which is the blood and oxygen levels. They will carry out blood tests at the Olympics. SERENA WILLIAMS: I hate needles. Q. How do you feel about that, bearing in mind your religious beliefs? SERENA WILLIAMS: Oh, this is terrible (laughter). I'm not doing anything. It's a shame that they have to do this because people really try to get a different advantage. That's really a shame. It's a shame they have to take blood tests, because I don't really like needles. Q. If you were asked to give one, would you do it, and Venus as well? SERENA WILLIAMS: Yeah, sure. I'm not hiding anything, so. Q. I'm not saying you are. The actual fact of having to have a blood test. SERENA WILLIAMS: If things were sterile and clean, why not? Q. We thought that Jehovah's Witnesses do not give blood. SERENA WILLIAMS: That's a blood test. Just to have a blood test. Sometimes you have to get your blood tested to see if you have a disease, to see what's wrong. That's okay. We don't give blood to other people so they can donate and have blood transfusions. Q. There's a difference between giving and testing? SERENA WILLIAMS: Under no circumstances would I give blood to be donated to give to someone else because it's against my religion. Interviewhttp://observer.guardian....37,00.html 2002-09-13 HONG KONG (AP) -- All the wealth and attention that come from being world No. 1 are great, but Serena Williams said Friday that God is above all in her life. Williams was asked in a news conference how she ranked various priorities: Love, money, family and her stellar tennis career. She picked none of the above. ``I'd rather say God goes in there first, and then family, and then career, and then money,'' Williams answered. Then with a good laugh she acknowledged having no boyfriend. ``There's no love,'' said Williams, who last week defeated older sister Venus to win the U.S. Open, her third straight Grand Slam title. The outcome didn't leave any hard feelings, Serena Williams said. ``We've always been close whether she wins or whether I win,'' she said. ``It didn't actually affect our relationship when she won and I won a couple. Who knows who might start winning again?'' Williams turns 21 on Sept. 26 but plans to keep it low key. ``It's like another day for me,'' Williams said, wearing a hairband glittering with costume jewels. ``I am a Jehovah's Witness so we don't believe in celebrations or birthdays.'' After staging a tennis demonstration in Hong Kong on Saturday, Williams heads north Sunday for the Princess Cup in Tokyo. Copyright 2002 by The Associated Press All Rights Reserved http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4050966/ She's a chick-lit junkie and boasts about having read Harry Potter before it was popular. Jehovah's Witnesses, she and Venus still proselytize. (They started using the phone instead of going door-to-door, because people would ask them to sign their Bibles.) | |
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CeeJay-
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fantasyislander said: CeeJay-
sooooo sorry to offend you. i'm sorry i missed those new items. i honestly didn't know they were witnesses until a little bit ago. i didn't mean to be denying their faith, just saying that i hadn't heard it from their mouths. so now i have. (sort of) it still doesn't change the rest of what i said. if they are active witnesses still, (if, because those news items weren't from yesterday, and things change all the time) and they are doing something wrong, it will be handled by their local elders. i don't know the whole situation (in their personal lives, etc) so how can i sit here and say they should be disfellowshipped? now, if venus said that, yes she is a baptized witness, and that she's running around sleeping with people, then i would make that jump to the conclusion that she should be df'd. but. like i said before, if anything needs to be done, her elders will take care of it. and even if they don't, Jehovah sees it all. How is sleeping around different than representing Satan's system (U.S.A) in the Olympics (an event started to honor false gods, Idolatory)? Both are clearly against JW theology, yes? Personally I would say the latter is a worst offense before Jehovah because a sister can always argue that "hormones" got the best of her and the fornication wasn't planned. On the other hand it takes months of preparation for the Olympics after announcing ones intentions. It's a sin commited conscientiously. Not an accident. One can assume they've received lots of counseling by the elders at their decision in the past months and yet their intention is still to compete against other agents of Satan (other political entities). Remember, they participated in the 2000 Olympics (which I read they won gold medals for Satan) and they were raised JWs so they had years of counciling on the matter by the elders. Of course it's entirely possible the elders have said nothing because they're celebrities. Now unless there's been "new light" I'm not aware of, but if you continue to go against the loving counsel and "shepharding" by the elders you are DF'ed. It's been four years since the first time they participated in the Olympics and they are still JWs. Now, if any normal (non-celebrity) sister willingly (I say willingly because again unlike fornication which can be an unplanned act, participating in the Olympics is anything but) and continually violates scripture they are DF'ed. You can close your eyes and say you don't know the whole story, but we conclude one of two things: 1) The elders haven't given any counsel to the Williams sisters. 2) The elders have given counsel to the sisters, which the sisters have clearly ignored but haven't been DF'ed. Either conclusion isn't scriptural and indicates favoritism by the Society. You can believe the scriptures are "bent" by the Society to accomodate celebrities like the Williams sisters and Prince because they're great PR and help legitimize the JW religion. The Society knows if they come down hard on celebrities and apply the same standards as they do for your average brother or sister they may actually disassociate themselves and lose a huge source of good publicity. This can happen even if they were raised in the Truth and have familiy members in the Truth. The Society learned their lesson with Michael Jackson. They don't want to make the same mistake with current sources of good PR. Prince converting to JW has given more good PR for the JWs than all the instant KHs in the last 15 years put together. On a smaller scale I recall a millionaire at my local KH that was given "breaks" despite his problem with alcohol because of his hefty contributions (one contribution was for $100,000). David | |
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For that matter, what exactly do you consider a JW? A baptized publisher? A lot of people identify as JW, without being baptized or preaching publicly.
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Interesting question. Im gonna have to do some research on it. I've never given the Olympic games much thought. It's not a religious event so I dont THINK the origin of it would be a conflict. But the patriotism that often so prevalent may be an issue. I've noticed the US competitors usually wear red & white stripes with blue stars....patriotic colors and I certainly wouldnt think a JW could do that. Just not sure about this one. Im definitely gonna have to dig in and do some research on this one. Many Christmas' ago, I went to buy a doll for my son. I reached for the last one they had, but so did another man. As I rained blows upon him, I realized there had to be another way. | |
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fantasyislander said: CeeJay-
sooooo sorry to offend you. i'm sorry i missed those new items. i honestly didn't know they were witnesses until a little bit ago. i didn't mean to be denying their faith, just saying that i hadn't heard it from their mouths. so now i have. (sort of) it still doesn't change the rest of what i said. if they are active witnesses still, (if, because those news items weren't from yesterday, and things change all the time) and they are doing something wrong, it will be handled by their local elders. i don't know the whole situation (in their personal lives, etc) so how can i sit here and say they should be disfellowshipped? now, if venus said that, yes she is a baptized witness, and that she's running around sleeping with people, then i would make that jump to the conclusion that she should be df'd. but. like i said before, if anything needs to be done, her elders will take care of it. and even if they don't, Jehovah sees it all. Offend me, never U 
They are still active witnesses & Jehovah sees all. A  just 4 U. | |
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ekalb101 said: Interesting question. Im gonna have to do some research on it. I've never given the Olympic games much thought. It's not a religious event so I dont THINK the origin of it would be a conflict. But the patriotism that often so prevalent may be an issue. I've noticed the US competitors usually wear red & white stripes with blue stars....patriotic colors and I certainly wouldnt think a JW could do that. Just not sure about this one. Im definitely gonna have to dig in and do some research on this one.
The origin does matter. The Society consistently uses the origin of things like Christmas, Halloween, birthdays, etc... as one important reason why these events aren't celebrated. Origin is very important to the Society. Also you don't have to wear red/white/blue to be patriotic. Just because the Williams sisters don't wear red/white/blue or don't salute the flag or don't participate in the national anthem doesn't mean they're not patriotic. In fact they're doing the most patriotic thing possible at the Olympics other than these token gestures: they're competing, actively participating (not just spectators) on behalf of Satan (U.S.A) against other agents of Satan (other countries). The most patriotic thing one can do besides serving in the military is serving in the Olympics. Same idea, just no guns or killing. I'm very curious to hear what you find out. David | |
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fantasyislander said: DavidSF said: That's what I thought. In fact they also participated in the 2000 Olympic games. Seems to me they should've been DF'ed years ago. I guess this is another example of the Society "bending the scriptures" for celebrities (great for PR) and other "important people." David if it's so great for PR why don't they make it into a commercial about how great it is to be JW or something like that? i didn't even know they were witnesses until someone here on this site told me a month or so ago. and remember, whatever we hear second or third hand, is just that. secondhand information. unless the williams sisters themselves say "i am baptized as one of JWs" or they come out in service with me, i'm afraid it's just hard to believe all of it. heck, i still have a hard time believing prince is JW. (and can you really blame me?) but basically, what it comes down to is, whether they are or aren't isn't really our business. if they're doing something wrong the elders in their congregation will handle it. and even if nothing happens to them now, it doesn't really matter. Jehovah sees everything. whether the elders say it's ok and it really isn't, they aren't fooling Jehovah. but supposedly, the JW church is JHWH's church, so to fool one is to fool the other. there should be enough light regarding such a simple thing as celebrity and the olympics, to say the least. Welcome to the New World Odor and
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DavidSF said: The origin does matter. The Society consistently uses the origin of things like Christmas, Halloween, birthdays, etc... as one important reason why these events aren't celebrated. Origin is very important to the Society. Im sure David already knows this but for any others that are curious: Customs have been profoundly influenced by religion. Many, in fact, arose from old superstitions and non-Biblical religious ideas. For instance, giving flowers to bereaved ones may have had its origin in religious superstition. (According to some anthropologists, flower bouquets were at times used as offerings to the dead to prevent them from haunting the living.) In addition, the color blue—often associated with baby boys—was thought to frighten away demons. Mascara served as a protection against the evil eye, while lipstick was used to discourage demons from entering a woman’s mouth and possessing her. Even a custom as innocuous as covering the mouth while yawning may have arisen from the idea that one’s soul could escape through a wide-open mouth. Over the years, however, the religious associations have faded, and today these practices and customs have no religious significance. When a Christian must decide whether or not to follow a certain custom, his main concern should be, What is God’s viewpoint as expressed in the Bible? In the past God condemned certain practices that may have been tolerated in some communities. These included child sacrifice, the misuse of blood, and various sexual practices. (Leviticus 17:13, 14; 18:1-30; Deuteronomy 18:10) Likewise, certain customs that are common today are clearly not in harmony with Bible principles. Among these are non-Biblical traditions connected with religious holidays such as Christmas and Easter or with superstitious practices related to spiritism. But what about customs that may once have been linked to questionable practices but that today are primarily viewed as social etiquette? For example, many popular wedding customs—including the exchanging of rings and the eating of cake—may have pagan origins. Does this mean that Christians are forbidden to observe such customs? Are Christians required to scrutinize meticulously each custom of the community to see whether somewhere or at some time it had negative connotations? Though generally innocuous, some customs may be practiced locally in ways that are contrary to Bible principles. For instance, on specific occasions the giving of flowers may take on special meaning that conflicts with Bible teachings. So, what should a Christian primarily be concerned about? Although there may be reason to examine the origin of a particular custom, in some cases it is more important to consider what the custom means to people at the time and in the place where one now lives. If a custom has unscriptural or otherwise negative connotations during a particular period of the year or under certain circumstances, Christians may wisely decide to avoid it at that time. Many Christmas' ago, I went to buy a doll for my son. I reached for the last one they had, but so did another man. As I rained blows upon him, I realized there had to be another way. | |
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So at least with regard to the Olympics having pagan origin, that no longer has any bearing on anyone wishing to compete in the Olympics. It's not a religious event. No one competing or viewing the event ties it to false God's or false worship any longer and hasnt done so in a very very very long time. It's a sports event. Many Christmas' ago, I went to buy a doll for my son. I reached for the last one they had, but so did another man. As I rained blows upon him, I realized there had to be another way. | |
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ekalb101 said: So at least with regard to the Olympics having pagan origin, that no longer has any bearing on anyone wishing to compete in the Olympics. It's not a religious event. No one competing or viewing the event ties it to false God's or false worship any longer and hasnt done so in a very very very long time. It's a sports event.
   Welcome to the New World Odor and
the Mythmaking Moonbattery of Obamanation. Chains We Can Bereave In LIBERALISM IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY | |
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ekalb101 said: So at least with regard to the Olympics having pagan origin, that no longer has any bearing on anyone wishing to compete in the Olympics. It's not a religious event. No one competing or viewing the event ties it to false God's or false worship any longer and hasnt done so in a very very very long time. It's a sports event.
Are you serious?!  Please. My JW aunt refuses to clink wine glasses or make toasts to people because she says that back in the day, clinking glasses was supposed to drive evil spirits away. No One links toasting/clinking glasses together to religious events either, but because of the pagan origins, she refuses to do it.
You guys thrive on all learning the same thing all over the world. Yu know that the William sister ain't right according to your religion. Stop making excuses for them. My cousins couldn't even play on sports teams growing up. **************************************************
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ekalb101 said: DavidSF said: The origin does matter. The Society consistently uses the origin of things like Christmas, Halloween, birthdays, etc... as one important reason why these events aren't celebrated. Origin is very important to the Society. Im sure David already knows this but for any others that are curious: Customs have been profoundly influenced by religion. Many, in fact, arose from old superstitions and non-Biblical religious ideas. For instance, giving flowers to bereaved ones may have had its origin in religious superstition. (According to some anthropologists, flower bouquets were at times used as offerings to the dead to prevent them from haunting the living.) In addition, the color blue—often associated with baby boys—was thought to frighten away demons. Mascara served as a protection against the evil eye, while lipstick was used to discourage demons from entering a woman’s mouth and possessing her. Even a custom as innocuous as covering the mouth while yawning may have arisen from the idea that one’s soul could escape through a wide-open mouth. Over the years, however, the religious associations have faded, and today these practices and customs have no religious significance. When a Christian must decide whether or not to follow a certain custom, his main concern should be, What is God’s viewpoint as expressed in the Bible? In the past God condemned certain practices that may have been tolerated in some communities. These included child sacrifice, the misuse of blood, and various sexual practices. (Leviticus 17:13, 14; 18:1-30; Deuteronomy 18:10) Likewise, certain customs that are common today are clearly not in harmony with Bible principles. Among these are non-Biblical traditions connected with religious holidays such as Christmas and Easter or with superstitious practices related to spiritism. But what about customs that may once have been linked to questionable practices but that today are primarily viewed as social etiquette? For example, many popular wedding customs—including the exchanging of rings and the eating of cake—may have pagan origins. Does this mean that Christians are forbidden to observe such customs? Are Christians required to scrutinize meticulously each custom of the community to see whether somewhere or at some time it had negative connotations? Though generally innocuous, some customs may be practiced locally in ways that are contrary to Bible principles. For instance, on specific occasions the giving of flowers may take on special meaning that conflicts with Bible teachings. So, what should a Christian primarily be concerned about? Although there may be reason to examine the origin of a particular custom, in some cases it is more important to consider what the custom means to people at the time and in the place where one now lives. If a custom has unscriptural or otherwise negative connotations during a particular period of the year or under certain circumstances, Christians may wisely decide to avoid it at that time. ekalb101, All your examples above, giving flowers, color blue, mascara, lipstick, etc.. do not apply to the question at hand. I can see why it may be permissible for JWs to do these things since despite their origins it's the intent or purpose for these actions that matter before the eyes of Jehovah. These things can be done for non-superstitious reasons and as you pointed out if the purpose becomes blurry in another context then true Christians should avoid it in that particular context. Now, back to my question. The intent and purpose of the Olympics was/is to honor false gods. That's why it was invented. It's an institution to honor false gods. Just because there are no religous ceremonies these days doesn't mean the institutition has changed. It only means how it's practiced in modern times has changed. JW analogy: You can say the Olympics organization ("Governing Body") has received "new light" on how the games should be played and the latest understanding by the Olympics Committee says Satan's politcal organizations ("Beasts") should be honored more than Satan's false gods ("Babylon the Great"). Still, the Olympics are the Olympics, an institution to honor false gods. I don't see how if you participlate in the Olympics you aren't part of this institution. David | |
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illimack said: ekalb101 said: So at least with regard to the Olympics having pagan origin, that no longer has any bearing on anyone wishing to compete in the Olympics. It's not a religious event. No one competing or viewing the event ties it to false God's or false worship any longer and hasnt done so in a very very very long time. It's a sports event.
Are you serious?! Please. My JW aunt refuses to clink wine glasses or make toasts to people because she says that back in the day, clinking glasses was supposed to drive evil spirits away. No One links toasting/clinking glasses together to religious events either, but because of the pagan origins, she refuses to do it.
You guys thrive on all learning the same thing all over the world. Yu know that the William sister ain't right according to your religion. Stop making excuses for them. My cousins couldn't even play on sports teams growing up. clicking wine glasses?! like if you do it you some how drum up some old balrog spirits or something, even if you have no other intentionality behind the act except celebratory good will? seems like some people are superstitious that they might be doing superstitious things, superstitious about (accidentally) being superstitious, which is the epitome, the pinnacle of superstition. Welcome to the New World Odor and
the Mythmaking Moonbattery of Obamanation. Chains We Can Bereave In LIBERALISM IS A CONSPIRACY THEORY | |
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illimack said: ekalb101 said: So at least with regard to the Olympics having pagan origin, that no longer has any bearing on anyone wishing to compete in the Olympics. It's not a religious event. No one competing or viewing the event ties it to false God's or false worship any longer and hasnt done so in a very very very long time. It's a sports event.
Are you serious?! Please. My JW aunt refuses to clink wine glasses or make toasts to people because she says that back in the day, clinking glasses was supposed to drive evil spirits away. No One links toasting/clinking glasses together to religious events either, but because of the pagan origins, she refuses to do it.Hey girl! 
Honestly, your aunt is making a personal decision. Everyone's conscience is different. I know JWs who won't clink a glass, but they might raise one and say "cheers". It's all in the sentiment. God knows the heart, right? You guys thrive on all learning the same thing all over the world. Yu know that the William sister ain't right according to your religion. Stop making excuses for them. My cousins couldn't even play on sports teams growing up.
I don't think ekalb101 is making excuses for them. It's not our place to sit up here and judge folks and say '"they ain't right". Why some of the people on this site are wanting us to do that, I have no clue. Especially since they're not even a part of the organization. It certainly has no bearing on their lives. JWs have to be honest with themselves and Jah. You can't always be worried about what other people are doing. I had this conversation with a friend just yesterday.I go to the Hall to worship Jehovah, not to please other people. As for playing on sports teams, there are some valid issues there. Some parents are concerned with the time that is occupied by it, meaning that it may take time away from spiritual things. Some parents may also be concerned about the high level of competition that is involved. I know for my mom, it was the time. Practices were always held on nights that I knew I had to be at congregation meetings. At the end of the day, it's up to the parents. My mom chose to keep me off of school teams. That didn't stop me from whuppin' everybody in the hood with my left handed jump shot, though.  | |
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HiinEnkelte said: illimack said: Are you serious?! Please. My JW aunt refuses to clink wine glasses or make toasts to people because she says that back in the day, clinking glasses was supposed to drive evil spirits away. No One links toasting/clinking glasses together to religious events either, but because of the pagan origins, she refuses to do it.
You guys thrive on all learning the same thing all over the world. Yu know that the William sister ain't right according to your religion. Stop making excuses for them. My cousins couldn't even play on sports teams growing up. clicking wine glasses?! like if you do it you some how drum up some old balrog spirits or something, even if you have no other intentionality behind the act except celebratory good will? seems like some people are superstitious that they might be doing superstitious things, superstitious about (accidentally) being superstitious, which is the epitome, the pinnacle of superstition. And if Illi's aunt chooses not to do that, then it's her choice. Who are any of use to criticize? | |
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I only brought up my aunt not toasting because of Elkab saying that since the olympics are no longer seen as religious, it's o.k. Toasting is not not seen as religious either, but to my aunt it's not o.k. because of the pagan origins. Now I don't know if all J.W.'s refuse to toast, or if it's just my aunt. She is a little overboard. But if what David SF posted was true about the JW beliefs of the olympics, I can't see how them partcipating can be o.k. I don't know if people want them to be judged so to speak. But people are hearing one thing and seeing to very prominent people doing something else and seeming to get away with it.
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OdysseyMiles said: HiinEnkelte said: clicking wine glasses?! like if you do it you some how drum up some old balrog spirits or something, even if you have no other intentionality behind the act except celebratory good will? seems like some people are superstitious that they might be doing superstitious things, superstitious about (accidentally) being superstitious, which is the epitome, the pinnacle of superstition. And if Illi's aunt chooses not to do that, then it's her choice. Who are any of use to criticize? you're right of course. she has that choice. i just find it interesting and ironic that the preoccupation with avoiding superstition, -as if one can accidentally fall into some incantation that calls up spirits (like Evil Dead), - can get seriously superstitious. Welcome to the New World Odor and
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ekalb101 said: So at least with regard to the Olympics having pagan origin, that no longer has any bearing on anyone wishing to compete in the Olympics. It's not a religious event. No one competing or viewing the event ties it to false God's or false worship any longer and hasnt done so in a very very very long time. It's a sports event.
The same can be said of both Halloween and birthdays. They are no longer religious events. Therefore there is nothing wrong with taking part, correct? [This message was edited Tue Aug 10 11:59:56 2004 by 333] "Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows." | |
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333 said: ekalb101 said: So at least with regard to the Olympics having pagan origin, that no longer has any bearing on anyone wishing to compete in the Olympics. It's not a religious event. No one competing or viewing the event ties it to false God's or false worship any longer and hasnt done so in a very very very long time. It's a sports event.
The same can be said of both Halloween and birthdays and. They are no longer religious events. Therefore there is nothing wrong with taking part, correct? [This message was edited Tue Aug 10 11:58:15 2004 by 333] Great point. I think Elkab may have spoken too soon on this one. **************************************************
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illimack said: I only brought up my aunt not toasting because of Elkab saying that since the olympics are no longer seen as religious, it's o.k. Toasting is not not seen as religious either, but to my aunt it's not o.k. because of the pagan origins. Now I don't know if all J.W.'s refuse to toast, or if it's just my aunt. She is a little overboard. But if what David SF posted was true about the JW beliefs of the olympics, I can't see how them partcipating can be o.k. I don't know if people want them to be judged so to speak. But people are hearing one thing and seeing to very prominent people doing something else and seeming to get away with it.
Hi OdysseyMiles David SF didn't post "JWs' beliefs" on the Olympics. He posted historical background on the first ancient Olympic games. Nobody here can speak for every JW.
*eating and typing at the same time* spelling edit [This message was edited Tue Aug 10 12:32:12 2004 by OdysseyMiles] | |
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333 said: ekalb101 said: So at least with regard to the Olympics having pagan origin, that no longer has any bearing on anyone wishing to compete in the Olympics. It's not a religious event. No one competing or viewing the event ties it to false God's or false worship any longer and hasnt done so in a very very very long time. It's a sports event.
The same can be said of both Halloween and birthdays. Can it? I'm not too sure about that. They are no longer religious events. Therefore there is nothing wrong with taking part, correct?
That's for you to decide, sir. | |
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OdysseyMiles said: illimack said: I only brought up my aunt not toasting because of Elkab saying that since the olympics are no longer seen as religious, it's o.k. Toasting is not not seen as religious either, but to my aunt it's not o.k. because of the pagan origins. Now I don't know if all J.W.'s refuse to toast, or if it's just my aunt. She is a little overboard. But if what David SF posted was true about the JW beliefs of the olympics, I can't see how them partcipating can be o.k. I don't know if people want them to be judged so to speak. But people are hearing one thing and seeing to very prominent people doing something else and seeming to get away with it.
Hi OdysseyMiles David SF didn't post "JWs' beliefs" on the Olympics. He posted historical background on the first ancient Olympic games. Nobody here can speak for every JW.
*eating and typing at the same time* spelling edit [This message was edited Tue Aug 10 12:32:12 2004 by OdysseyMiles] In his original post, DavidSF said that the U.S.A. is a "political organization of the beast according to J.W. theology." On different threads, J.W.'s boast about learning the same things at the same time. Now, I don't know if what he posted is true, so I cant speak on the validity of JW's believing that the U.S. is the "beast." I would love to ask my aunt about the William sisters. But I can see it opening a whole can of worms and getting ugly.  I try to steer clear of upsetting her. When I commented about toasting.....I said "well wouldn't it be a good thing if its' purpose is to drive evil spirits away?", she got a major attitude and I had to back off before it turned into an arguement.**************************************************
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