its interesting when looking at the sales of the new arcade fire album ' the suburbs' which is expected to debut at number one on billboard this week....they are the darlings of the music critics and a major new band but their sales are expected to be between 120 to 140 thousand....prince last album 'lotusflow3r' sold around 180,000 in the first week.....i know his sales tend to drop off quickly after a few weeks but its still impressive that an artist who has been around for over 30 years and is as unpredictable as prince can still outsell major new acts like arcade fire and other so called 'big' acts like bon jovi....

I agree with you man. I think people just don't give him enough credit. He is still putting out great music 32 years later. Even with his "weird" persona he is regarded by all generations as a musical genius. He has the hardest fan base in the world in my opinion. I mean his fans talk a lot of shit to be people into his music. Yet people who claim to have not liked his new music for like ten years are still around here talking about him. That is amazing. I hope he is still outselling new artist at 72. I'll still rock every disc.

Good points. Prince is the rare artist, in the history of popular music, to remain commercially and artistically viable over a 30+ year span. The sheer breadth and quality of his catalog, unreleased material, stunning concerts and side projects is not comparable. As a three decade P fan, it amazes me that I still continue to hear inspirational music that I have never heard before.

It's a testament to his brilliance.

I think it's completely understandable. Prince, like you correctly pointed out, has been around for many years and has his hardcore fanbase plus the random listener who would buy an album for old time's sake. He hardly wins lots of fans anymore, though.

While a newcomer band, a critics favourite, will win fans all the time. That's why they keep on selling the album long after it was released, unlike Prince.

Bollocks. Record sales are constantly dropping month by month. This is an ongoing trend since more than ten years. It's only logical that you have to sell less records to become #1 in 2010 than last year.

ludwig said:

Bollocks. Record sales are constantly dropping month by month. This is an ongoing trend since more than ten years. It's only logical that you have to sell less records to become #1 in 2010 than last year.

dont get your point...i am not saying record sales are not going down....i am pointing out that prince is STILL outselling so called new and major acts alike.....in the 80s....purple rain sold around a million copies in the first week in the us.....now he sells around a fifth of that in the first week with a new release....but its still more than most are selling.....unless its eminem or someone like that....

blackbob said:

ludwig said:

Bollocks. Record sales are constantly dropping month by month. This is an ongoing trend since more than ten years. It's only logical that you have to sell less records to become #1 in 2010 than last year.

dont get your point...i am not saying record sales are not going down....i am pointing out that prince is STILL outselling so called new and major acts alike.....in the 80s....purple rain sold around a million copies in the first week in the us.....now he sells around a fifth of that in the first week with a new release....but its still more than most are selling.....unless its eminem or someone like that....

Prince wouldn't sell as many units of lotusflower when he'd released it this year, than he did last year. That's my point. Because of this decreasing market you cannot convey that he is "outselling" new acts. You could only do that with comparison of this year's sales figures. But that's impossible, because prince's new album isn't officially available in the states.

http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/content_display/industry/e3i6f1a697eee327ba027d06f61dca757c6

[Edited 8/9/10 5:30am]

I could easily be wrong here and if I am someone please correct me but I think it is important to remember something. Lotusflow3r was a triple album. Every unit consists of 3 discs. So if it initially sold 180,000 discs that means that only 60,000 people bought the set. I'm not sure how the Bria Valente disc fits in with the official sales tally. Even though he had as much, probably more, to do with the creation of that album as Bria did technically it is a Bria Valente disc, not a Prince disc.

I thought it was funny that Prince argued that he sold more discs than Keith Urban. Maybe Prince is correct but even if he is three times as many people bought the Keith Urban disc compared to Lotusflow3r.

I also think it is funny that Prince's brand new album has sold zero copies in the United States.

[Edited 8/9/10 5:28am]

[Edited 8/9/10 5:29am]

[Edited 8/9/10 5:34am]

rialb said:

I could easily be wrong here and if I am someone please correct me but I think it is important to remember something. Lotusflow3r was a triple album. Every unit consists of 3 discs. So if it initially sold 180,000 discs that means that only 60,000 people bought the set. I'm not sure how the Bria Valente disc fits in with the official sales tally. Even though he had as much, probably more, to do with the creation of that album as Bria did technically it is a Bria Valente disc, not a Prince disc.

I thought it was funny that Prince argued that he sold more discs than Keith Urban. Maybe Prince is correct but even if he is three times as many people bought the Keith Urban disc compared to Lotusflow3r.

I also think it is funny that Prince's brand new album has sold zero copies in the United States.

[Edited 8/9/10 5:28am]

[Edited 8/9/10 5:29am]

[Edited 8/9/10 5:34am]

A Double or in this case triple cd only counts as 1 unit.

So 180,000 discs mean 1 unit, if it was how you say it would be 540,000 discs sold.

rialb said:

I could easily be wrong here and if I am someone please correct me but I think it is important to remember something. Lotusflow3r was a triple album. Every unit consists of 3 discs. So if it initially sold 180,000 discs that means that only 60,000 people bought the set. I'm not sure how the Bria Valente disc fits in with the official sales tally. Even though he had as much, probably more, to do with the creation of that album as Bria did technically it is a Bria Valente disc, not a Prince disc.

I thought it was funny that Prince argued that he sold more discs than Keith Urban. Maybe Prince is correct but even if he is three times as many people bought the Keith Urban disc compared to Lotusflow3r.

I also think it is funny that Prince's brand new album has sold zero copies in the United States.

[Edited 8/9/10 5:28am]

[Edited 8/9/10 5:29am]

[Edited 8/9/10 5:34am]

i am sorry but that is nonsense.....he sold 180,000 copies of the triple album......if that was the case ...the beatles in stereo box set got to number 15 on billboard last year selling around 50,000 copies in the first week but their are sixteen albums in that so that would mean 800,000 sales on soundscan ?.......it would have been number one for weeks if that was the case......lotusflower SOLD 180,000 copies in the first week.....what you are talking about is how they certify albums for gold and platinium status......dont know if they still do it that way.....

rialb said:

I could easily be wrong here and if I am someone please correct me but I think it is important to remember something. Lotusflow3r was a triple album. Every unit consists of 3 discs. So if it initially sold 180,000 discs that means that only 60,000 people bought the set. I'm not sure how the Bria Valente disc fits in with the official sales tally. Even though he had as much, probably more, to do with the creation of that album as Bria did technically it is a Bria Valente disc, not a Prince disc.

I thought it was funny that Prince argued that he sold more discs than Keith Urban. Maybe Prince is correct but even if he is three times as many people bought the Keith Urban disc compared to Lotusflow3r.

I also think it is funny that Prince's brand new album has sold zero copies in the United States.

[Edited 8/9/10 5:28am]

[Edited 8/9/10 5:29am]

[Edited 8/9/10 5:34am]

You're confusing the RIAA, which tallies each disc in a set individually for their gold and platinum (shipped, not sold) awards, with Soundscan, which records sales by UPC. The 180,000 figure is correct.

As for 20Ten: it's not quite zero in the US (folks have reported seeing imports) but it hasn't been officially released, and doesn't have a UPC, so it would be pretty tough to track.

The main fallacy here is thinking that Arcade Fire were ever HUGE sellers to begin with. Best to compare to someone like Eminem, whose most recent album "Recovery" debuted at 741,000 copies in the first week.

Compare that to bowing with 180,000.

Now lets look at the fallout. Prince dropped rapidly down the charts. Eminem has been #1 for several weeks, only just now dropping to #2.

Artists CAN sell a great deal, if the artist is relevant, has a hit single, and does all the promotional efforts.

=0P

Arcade Fire is an indie band so for them to sell that much is great.

I concur with the previous post about a triple albums total having to be divided by 3.

Im pretty sure that that was the case with Emancipation.

muirdo said:

I concur with the previous post about a triple albums total having to be divided by 3.

Im pretty sure that that was the case with Emancipation.

Yep. Double and triple albums in America sold for how many copies each disc did, so if a record sold like three million for a double album, it'll be six million, if it sold for like that much for triple, it'll be 9.

So when you look back on it Lotusflow3r's opener wasn't really all that impressive. In the meantime Arcade Fire's sales are for only ONE disc.

Timmy84 said:

muirdo said:

I concur with the previous post about a triple albums total having to be divided by 3.

Im pretty sure that that was the case with Emancipation.

Yep. Double and triple albums in America sold for how many copies each disc did, so if a record sold like three million for a double album, it'll be six million, if it sold for like that much for triple, it'll be 9.

So when you look back on it Lotusflow3r's opener wasn't really all that impressive. In the meantime Arcade Fire's sales are for only ONE disc.

As was stated above. You are referring to how the Recording Industry Assoc of America counts album sales. In that respect, IF Prince sold 500,000 copies of the Emancipation album(I don't know the actual amount), the RIAA would say he sold 1.5 millions copies. This is how they determine the status of gold or platinum records.

But last year, Soundscan counted 180,000 units of Lotusflower sold (I'm guessing it's more now), which only counts the UPC code of the items sold. Each Lotusflower unit -all 3 discs- has only one UPC code. Thus he sold 180,000 albums, or 540,000 actual discs.

^^ They counted MPLSound and Elixer too. If he had actually did 540,000, they would've said so but they didn't.

[Edited 8/9/10 13:41pm]

The truth is, album sales are no longer the only way to count how many people have heard or purchased a particular album. Online sales and downloads have surpassed cd sales and I doubt it will reverse itself anytime soon. Many people like myself would much rather purchase a physical copy of cd or vinyl, but like the dinosaur, these too may be extinct someday.

muirdo said:

Im pretty sure that that was the case with Emancipation.

According to Soundscan, Emancipation only did over 500,000 but the RIAA counted it three times meaning the album was double-platinum.

According to Soundscan, Lotusflow3r only did 415,829. I don't know if the RIAA has given the album a plaque yet.

XNY, i was just typing about the same below, lol. Esp, yeah you know me

I guess sale-strategies for newer artists might go more towards selling tracks & ringtones as seperate downloads instead of a complete album. The concept of an album seems to fade little by little more into the background, and companies adapt their sales to the demand and interests of newer generations. That's at least my view why albumsales in general are dropping.

[Edited 8/9/10 14:15pm]

Timmy84 said:

muirdo said:

Im pretty sure that that was the case with Emancipation.

According to Soundscan, Emancipation only did over 500,000 but the RIAA counted it three times meaning the album was double-platinum.

According to Soundscan, Lotusflow3r only did 415,829. I don't know if the RIAA has given the album a plaque yet.

lol, Did Lotus really sell that much? Proof!

Shango said:

XNY, i was just typing about the same below, lol. Esp, yeah you know me

I guess sale-strategies for newer artists might go more towards selling tracks & ringtones as seperate downloads instead of a complete album. The concept of an album seems to fade little by little more into the background, and companies adapt their sales to the demand and interests of newer generations. That's at least my view why albumsales in general are dropping.

[Edited 8/9/10 14:15pm]

That's how it was in the 50's. You didn't release an album so much as multiple singles. I think it's the wrong way to go IMO, and it only helps producers- who are good at making hits, not artists who don't always want to be commercial or mainstream.

I think the big sales factor was short-lived (1984-2001). Other than that, I think it's always been like this. But this adds to people not really promoting artists and overmismanaging the albums. They played a larger role in the decline of album sales than illegal downloads do. Lots illegally downloaded Lil' Crappy, er, Weezy's shitty album and that did 1.8 million in its first week two years ago. Sade sold over 500,000 of her album the first week, Eminem did 700,000. Bon Jovi, like Prince, are in a position to sell more from concerts than albums at this point.

Spinlight said:

Timmy84 said:

According to Soundscan, Emancipation only did over 500,000 but the RIAA counted it three times meaning the album was double-platinum.

According to Soundscan, Lotusflow3r only did 415,829. I don't know if the RIAA has given the album a plaque yet.

lol, Did Lotus really sell that much? Proof!

I don't know.

Oh yeah we know Prince's sales save for Purple Rain was never huge. But that's not a good excuse I guess.

muirdo said:

I concur with the previous post about a triple albums total having to be divided by 3.

Im pretty sure that that was the case with Emancipation.

no your wrong muirdo....this per cd thing only applys to gold and platinium awards from riaa....as one of the posters already stated....lotusflower has sold over 400,000 copies PER 3 CD SET in the states so when they come to giving awards....lotusflower will be certified platinium with over a million cds sold........the same as emancipation which sold around half a million per 3 cd set...

Timmy84 said:

Arcade Fire is an indie band so for them to sell that much is great.

Prince is also an indie artist. People always forget this fact when they criticize his marketing, websites, radio airplay, etc.

Boy should've sold his shit on QVC like Susan Boyle then we wouldn't be having this discussion.

jdcxc said:

Timmy84 said:

Arcade Fire is an indie band so for them to sell that much is great.

Prince is also an indie artist...

Who just happened to be called a LEGEND by the mainstream and was a commercial artist for a TIME in the '80s. Remember that lol Oh and Warner Bros wasn't an indie label lol

He's indie NOW lol has been for 17 years lol

[Edited 8/9/10 17:13pm]

meisme said:

I agree with you man. I think people just don't give him enough credit. He is still putting out great music 32 years later. Even with his "weird" persona he is regarded by all generations as a musical genius. He has the hardest fan base in the world in my opinion. I mean his fans talk a lot of shit to be people into his music. Yet people who claim to have not liked his new music for like ten years are still around here talking about him. That is amazing. I hope he is still outselling new artist at 72. I'll still rock every disc.

Exactly! & Prince is making way more money now then he did in his Warner years. But not so bright people on here keep calling his projects a flop. When actually he has still outsold most artist today & have had number one albums after over 30 years in the music business. Plus still comes up with brilliant ways to distribute his music. Delivering his most brilliant work in decades. The masterpiece album & 2 million shipped mega hit 20TEN............