VoicesCarry said:

well, i suppose that's the wonderful thing about art. we all see a little something different in the same thing.

SassyBritches said:

Hey, I'm only taking the words from her mouth . I have the mp3 of her speech if you'd like it.

VoicesCarry said:

many artists keep the more personal detrails of songs private while talking about the less personal aspects of the same song.

SassyBritches said:

Here's the exact quote, anyway:

"It started off being a love song, but then Jesus - the subject of Jesus - crept in and I realized that my problem with men were...is the same as my problem with...Jesus. And that is if you give Jesus/men more power than they deserve, you will get fucked. (cheers from crowd). Shut up (laughs). Oh, what are you talking about? Uh, this is my opinion, this is not the opinion of my band. They can voice their opinion when they make their own fucking record (cheers from crowd). (Madonna laughs) Oh, yeah, I do love them....What? But no, I love men, I just said when you give them to much power, when you make them bigger than you are, when you act like they're more important than you are, when you idolize them. Pfft.....(question from crowd). "Religion is love"? No. Love has nothing to do with religion. No. Religion is an idea that someone pushes on you. Religion is judgement, religion is suffering, religion is conforming, religion is establishment. Fuck all that. Love has nothing to with religion. Love does not divide. "

Madonna can be honest in France during promotional concerts, it appears. I seriously doubt she'd ever get away with this in the U.S.
[This message was edited Sun Jun 6 18:45:45 2004 by VoicesCarry]

VoicesCarry said:

well...she lost points with me for some of that. anyhow, i'll still look forward to the show.

SassyBritches said:

The religion comments, I'll bet.

VoicesCarry said:

not the comments or opinions, per se, but the disrespectful way they were stated. i kow madonna's religious stances just as i know tori's outspoken opinions. the difference between the two is tact. madonna didn't use any and i think of her as someone with a little more class than that.

SassyBritches said:

She's brutally honest and no-bullshit. That's why I've always liked her, I guess. Madonna shows tact by shutting up when it's appropriate. I don't really see it as disrespectful, since she wasn't denigrating anyone - she was merely stating what she thought (as she allowed the man in the audience to state his beliefs).

It's not as if she called him a "stupid fuck" or something like that - yeah, that would have been disrespectful. But simply stating that you think religion is bullshit is not.
[This message was edited Sun Jun 6 19:29:12 2004 by VoicesCarry]

VoicesCarry said:

well, it is kinda disrespectful to her fans who do believe in jesus to say that if you put too much faith in him you get fucked. just a little denigration behind those words, dontcha think?

SassyBritches said:

"is the same as my problem with...Jesus. And that is if you give Jesus/men more power than they deserve, you will get fucked"

She wasn't generalizing it to anyone ("you" is meant to be her in a colloquial sense, obviously). She specifically stated it was her problem, not anyone else's, and her experiences have obviously been negative.
[This message was edited Sun Jun 6 19:34:06 2004 by VoicesCarry]

VoicesCarry said:

ok...but i don't think i agree with the simplicity behind that.

SassyBritches said:

Well her comments make sense in the context of her childhood and every damn song she's ever written about her parents lol.

VoicesCarry said:

i would love to meet you in person and have a drink and a "real" conversation with you! as much as we argue...er, debate...on this site, things would be a lot of fun. politics or music and we could be back and forth all nite...or until the pub closed, lol!