Every time i see this "creature" i cannot understand why is (or was) so succesfull. This man can't sing, his really ugly.... Is it only coz of his (bad) looks??? What is it? I don't understand why people spend money on this guy... Can u tell me?

So do countless others.

he's a great performer and he's made some great songs. His image may be the only thing that stands out to you, but that doesn't mean other's don't enjoy his music.

Lennon said:

So, how long were you asleep? Let me introduce you to... POP! Oh and by the way, Norma Jean and John F are dead!

BlueNote

Don't hate a man for how he looks. Judge him by what he does.

EvilWhiteMale said:

That is exactly what I do.... he is not singing...he's...I don't know.... I can noit find the right words for what he does..... sorry

Lennon said:

The guy is completly unoriginal and predictable.Everything he says and does is for shock value--with no substance behind it.He'd like to think he's the bowie of his generation,but...he's not,and never will be.

Why do certain folks support him?Because they have no musical taste.Period.

silentflute said:[quote]

Lennon said:

The guy is completly unoriginal and predictable.Everything he says and does is for shock value--with no substance behind it.He'd like to think he's the bowie of his generation,but...he's not,and never will be.

I agree with you on this. The first time I saw an MM video I was shocked, but that wore off quickly. He's not the least bit interesting anymore and his music isn't anything worth writing home about either. Once we got over the shock of his first few videos, there was nothing left to keep an interest.

I loved Mechanical animals,while must hardcore Manson fans didn't.

"I don't like the drugs,but the drugs like me"

silentflute said:

Thank u very much.....I rest my case... u just said it all!!!!

his shock value is gone and I did like his video's 2 tell the truth they are very cool, but otherwise...what is he talking about so special?

Evilwhitemale..can u really give me a song of his that is real and meaningful?

I'd like 2 c them.....

Lennon said:

The same can be said about people who like Musicology. They have no musical taste either then if you wanna run that kind of logic.

not a fan of his....but i have enjoyed his magazine interviews(Q,Blender,the face) over the past yr or two verrryyyy interesting.

EvilWhiteMale said:

i don't like him , but he's got a pint
has got great song writing skills

paisleypark4 said:

What's meaningful to me may not be meaningful to you. A song can be meaningful to someone for many reasons. The vocals can be meaningful, the guitars can be meaningful, the drums can be meaningful, the bass can be meaningful, the keys can be meaningful, the lyrics can be meaningful, etc. Most of all, his music is meaningful to me because to me it sounds good, and that's why I buy it.

So anyways, you guys don't like Manson's music, I don't like Prince's new music. It's not about right and wrong, it's about PERSONAL TASTES.

EvilWhiteMale said:

you gor to love a hater whos reasonable lol

Also, harping on this whole "shock value" crap is dumb. Manson isn't trying to shock people anymore. That's why he wrote the lyrics, "Everything has been said before, nothing left to say anymore." He knows his days of being shocking are done, but he's just expressing himself the way he wants. I don't think many of you have been paying attention to what he's been up to. I know you don't care to, but maybe pay a little more attention before you make assumptions.

EvilWhiteMale said:

just as much as peeps dont pay attention 2 Prince no more, but now they are...do i hear a lil jealousy of attention of artists? If Manson was ding this u wouldnt be complainin.

I was with him right up through Mechanical Animals but I felt he jumped the shark with Holy Wood. Still, if you can look past the freakshow and actually listen to his music, his early work is full of sharp commentary about a society full of hate, intolerance, apathy for others' suffering, knee-jerk conservatism, the crushing drive for young people to conform. It's too bad that so few people got past the boogeyman schtick, because unlike so many artists he actually had something to say.

Also, shock value? Was integral to much of Prince's early career, but you don't hear anyone writing him off because of that.

silentflute said:

That is just plain wrong! U cannot criticize and overstep on others because U do not have the acquired taste for MM's music.

shocking image? hahaha!! Marilyn Manson couldn't scare the shit outta my grandmother, hell most emoticons are more shocking than this poor little teeny pimp

and coming back to my grandmother, she also could outplay him at any given instrument any time, and indeed she has better songwriting skills... but then again: who hasn't?

He's like a bad Iggy/Ziggy impersonator.

EvilWhiteMale said:[quote]Also, harping on this whole "shock value" crap is dumb. Manson isn't trying to shock people anymore. That's why he wrote the lyrics, "Everything has been said before, nothing left to say anymore." He knows his days of being shocking are done, [quote]

And this is what I mean....the shock is over, MM is not that succesful anymore, that's my point!!! He's only succesfull coz of his image, not coz of his (so called) musical skills!!!

Great!! U said it yourself!!!

freakebear said:

I thought that too.

I was one of the 1st peeps 2 get my mitts on 'Portrait of An American Family' before it even hit England, and arrdently followed his career up 2 Holy Wood - which just did nothing 4 me, I found it increadibly formulaic. He did bounce back tho - I thought the new album was fantastic, and strangely enough, the skewed glam of 'Mechanical Animals' actually still stands up well now. In fact, as an album Id say it's my favourite.

People should stop judging a book by it's cover and listen a little more sometimes. U may not like the person, u may not like what they say - or HOW they say it...but that makes it no less valid.

As an example that he CAN actually string 2 words 2gether and form coherent sentances with substance, I offer u the following essay:

COLUMBINE: WHOS FAULT IS IT?

by Marilyn Manson

It is sad to think that the first few people on earth needed no books, movies, games or music to inspire cold-blooded murder. The day that Cain bashed his brother Abel's brains in, the only motivation he needed was his own human disposition to violence. Whether you interpret the Bible as literature or as the final word of whatever God may be, Christianity has given us an image of death and sexuality that we have based our culture around. A half-naked dead man hangs in most homes and around our necks, and we have just taken that for granted all our lives. Is it a symbol of hope or hopelessness? The world's most famous murder-suicide was also the birth of the death icon -- the blueprint for celebrity. Unfortunately, for all of their inspiring morality, nowhere in the Gospels is intelligence praised as a virtue.

A lot of people forget or never realize that I started my band as a criticism of these very issues of despair and hypocrisy. The name Marilyn Manson has never celebrated the sad fact that America puts killers on the cover of Time magazine, giving them as much notoriety as our favorite movie stars. From Jesse James to Charles Manson, the media, since their inception, have turned criminals into folk heroes. They just created two new ones when they plastered those dipshits Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris' pictures on the front of every newspaper. Don't be surprised if every kid who gets pushed around has two new idols.

We applaud the creation of a bomb whose sole purpose is to destroy all of mankind, and we grow up watching our president's brains splattered all over Texas. Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised. Does anyone think the Civil War was the least bit civil? If television had existed, you could be sure they would have been there to cover it, or maybe even participate in it, like their violent car chase of Princess Di. Disgusting vultures looking for corpses, exploiting, fucking, filming and serving it up for our hungry appetites in a gluttonous display of endless human stupidity.

When it comes down to who's to blame for the high school murders in Littleton, Colorado, throw a rock and you'll hit someone who's guilty. We're the people who sit back and tolerate children owning guns, and we're the ones who tune in and watch the up-to-the-minute details of what they do with them. I think it's terrible when anyone dies, especially if it is someone you know and love. But what is more offensive is that when these tragedies happen, most people don't really care any more than they would about the season finale of Friends or The Real World. I was dumbfounded as I watched the media snake right in, not missing a teardrop, interviewing the parents of dead children, televising the funerals. Then came the witch hunt.

Man's greatest fear is chaos. It was unthinkable that these kids did not have a simple black-and-white reason for their actions. And so a scapegoat was needed. I remember hearing the initial reports from Littleton, that Harris and Klebold were wearing makeup and were dressed like Marilyn Manson, whom they obviously must worship, since they were dressed in black. Of course, speculation snowballed into making me the poster boy for everything that is bad in the world. These two idiots weren't wearing makeup, and they weren't dressed like me or like goths. Since Middle America has not heard of the music they did listen to (KMFDM and Rammstein, among others), the media picked something they thought was similar.

Responsible journalists have reported with less publicity that Harris and Klebold were not Marilyn Manson fans -- that they even disliked my music. Even if they were fans, that gives them no excuse, nor does it mean that music is to blame. Did we look for James Huberty's inspiration when he gunned down people at McDonald's? What did Timothy McVeigh like to watch? What about David Koresh, Jim Jones? Do you think entertainment inspired Kip Kinkel, or should we blame the fact that his father bought him the guns he used in the Springfield, Oregon, murders? What inspires Bill Clinton to blow people up in Kosovo? Was it something that Monica Lewinsky said to him? Isn't killing just killing, regardless if it's in Vietnam or Jonesboro, Arkansas? Why do we justify one, just because it seems to be for the right reasons? Should there ever be a right reason? If a kid is old enough to drive a car or buy a gun, isn't he old enough to be held personally responsible for what he does with his car or gun? Or if he's a teenager, should someone else be blamed because he isn't as enlightened as an eighteen-year-old?

America loves to find an icon to hang its guilt on. But, admittedly, I have assumed the role of Antichrist; I am the Nineties voice of individuality, and people tend to associate anyone who looks and behaves differently with illegal or immoral activity. Deep down, most adults hate people who go against the grain. It's comical that people are naive enough to have forgotten Elvis, Jim Morrison and Ozzy so quickly. All of them were subjected to the same age-old arguments, scrutiny and prejudice. I wrote a song called "Lunchbox," and some journalists have interpreted it as a song about guns. Ironically, the song is about being picked on and fighting back with my Kiss lunch box, which I used as a weapon on the playground. In 1979, metal lunch boxes were banned because they were considered dangerous weapons in the hands of delinquents. I also wrote a song called "Get Your Gunn." The title is spelled with two n's because the song was a reaction to the murder of Dr. David Gunn, who was killed in Florida by pro-life activists while I was living there. That was the ultimate hypocrisy I witnessed growing up: that these people killed someone in the name of being "pro-life."

The somewhat positive messages of these songs are usually the ones that sensationalists misinterpret as promoting the very things I am decrying. Right now, everyone is thinking of how they can prevent things like Littleton. How do you prevent AIDS, world war, depression, car crashes? We live in a free country, but with that freedom there is a burden of personal responsibility. Rather than teaching a child what is moral and immoral, right and wrong, we first and foremost can establish what the laws that govern us are. You can always escape hell by not believing in it, but you cannot escape death and you cannot escape prison.

It is no wonder that kids are growing up more cynical; they have a lot of information in front of them. They can see that they are living in a world that's made of bullshit. In the past, there was always the idea that you could turn and run and start something better. But now America has become one big mall, and because of the Internet and all of the technology we have, there's nowhere to run. People are the same everywhere. Sometimes music, movies and books are the only things that let us feel like someone else feels like we do. I've always tried to let people know it's OK, or better, if you don't fit into the program. Use your imagination -- if some geek from Ohio can become something, why can't anyone else with the willpower and creativity?

I chose not to jump into the media frenzy and defend myself, though I was begged to be on every single TV show in existence. I didn't want to contribute to these fame-seeking journalists and opportunists looking to fill their churches or to get elected because of their self-righteous finger-pointing. They want to blame entertainment? Isn't religion the first real entertainment? People dress up in costumes, sing songs and dedicate themselves in eternal fandom. Everyone will agree that nothing was more entertaining than Clinton shooting off his prick and then his bombs in true political form. And the news -- that's obvious. So is entertainment to blame? I'd like media commentators to ask themselves, because their coverage of the event was some of the most gruesome entertainment any of us have seen.

I think that the National Rifle Association is far too powerful to take on, so most people choose Doom, The Basketball Diaries or yours truly. This kind of controversy does not help me sell records or tickets, and I wouldn't want it to. I'm a controversial artist, one who dares to have an opinion and bothers to create music and videos that challenge people's ideas in a world that is watered-down and hollow. In my work I examine the America we live in, and I've always tried to show people that the devil we blame our atrocities on is really just each one of us. So don't expect the end of the world to come one day out of the blue -- it's been happening every day for a long time.


MARILYN MANSON
(May 28, 1999)
[This message was edited Thu Apr 29 5:07:10 2004 by bananacologne]

Marilyn Manson=
[This message was edited Thu Apr 29 7:14:00 2004 by BabyCakes]

paisleypark4 said:

Cuz I actually like Manson's music. He doesn't give me much to complain about.

freakebear said:

Good point.

Lennon said:

What are you smoking?..... Well stop it!


People don't buy an album because they like his makeup or the clothes he wears. They buy it cuz they like the music. You can't see him when you listen to a CD. Geeze man, what the fuck?

EvilWhiteMale said:

jeeez man stop dreaming... for the music? tone def folks maybe... but most of MMs acne sprangled teeny audience buys dem CDs for their cool & tough image with their friends... U should know dat

Mistadobalina said:

Are you being serious? Ahh, I get it, you're joking. Nice one.