Lammastide said:

Chuck D, Slick Rick, Q-Tip, Ice-t, Genius/GZA, Ice Cube, Black Thought, Mos Def, Mike D, Shaquille O'Neal

Jasziah said:

from what i've heard, he goes both ways

Eraserhead said:

Shaquille O'Neal? GTFOH!!! My grandmother could beat him.

BlaqueKnight said:

I hope everyone who peruses this thread reads your post. I am so sick and tired of white people (and I am American Indian and white) who bitch about "reverse racism" and other such bullshit.

BlaqueKnight said:

I don't think I could have said it better myself. But many people don't want to hear it, for the same reason they want to pretend that we're "all the same." It's because white people have the luxury of ignoring race until something is thrown in their faces. What they don't understand is that people of color have it thrown in their faces every minute of every day. So you sound ridiculous when you get your panties in a twist and huff, "why does it have to be about race? Can't we just be people?" Maybe in Never Never Land. Here in Reality, it's just not the case. The sooner people realize that and truly face up and own up, the closer we will come to truly accepting our differences and living with some kind of peace.

Lammastide said:

Instead of listing 10, I'll simply reccommend one thing to you Rap City's Basement. Almost every MC that comes on there freestyles with Big Tigger. There have been several VERY impressive freestyle MCs over the years. I think you may have seen 8 Mile too many times. Em is good, but up against cats like Talieb Qweli and Pharoah Monche, he'd get SLAUGHTERED. When Talieb was freestyling with Tigger, he would take the last line that Tigger said and start his next turn with it and it ALWAYS MADE SENSE. THAT IS TALENT in freestyle. Em is pretty clever and likes to diss, but his freestyles have NO SUBSTANCE AT ALL. Em is not 1/2 the storyteller that Scarface is, not as clever as Ice Cube or Biggie, doesn't have the depth of thought like Chuck D, KRS-One or Dead Prez and his delivery is weak as hell. I could go on, but why bother? Em's just another shit-spouter in reality. He does have talent, but just because he's WHITE, he gets the "superiority pass" with the "pop", crowd who's knowledge of hip-hop extends only as far as the top 20-40 artists on the billboard charts. I won't praise that fool for doing the same shit EVERY OTHER COMMON RAPPER DOES. He's on the same level as Jay-Z to me. Clever phrases about NOTHING. I could care less about how mad he is at his mom or his wife.

someone asked me my take on this and I posted it there. So what if I'm crossposting it here. Like I really give a fuck.

Here's my take...

Black people should not be surprised that eminem used this language. We (whoever we are) let him into a (our?) cultural space where this kind of language was acceptable; and he forgot himself and freely used words that we freely use.

That applies to his use of hoes and bitches etc.

HOWEVER, eminem's resort to racializing his use of the terms does speak to the fact that even though he may have been granted a ghetto pass, he was well aware of his whiteness and at the slightest bit frustration or annoyance with someone black would resort to playing his own race card.

It's like this... when black rappers who are in the black community refer to women as bitches and hoes (which I find unacceptable unless of course they are talking about specific people who have acted as such but most are not)... anyway, when they refer to women and bitches and hoes it is understood that they are referring to black women cuz they are in the black community. It does not need to be said.

When em did his song, however, he made specific reference to black women as being different and distinct from himself. He is talking about a "they" a "them" those "others" of which he is not a part. That is very different. VERY DIFFERENT.

So to sum up my thoughts:

1. Black men should not use these terms to refer to any women, much less black women.

2. That when they DO use these terms: while it is understood that they are referring to black women, they never state it explicitly. It is an intra-racial issue but is not racialized.

3. When Eminem used these terms, he combined them with a racialized understanding (don't date black girls etc.) he clearly is not talking about "us" from within an "us" mindset. He is setting himself apart from the "us," exercising the benefit of white privilege.

Sure he may be down, he may be able to rap well, and he may have lots of black friends. But let some shit go down, and he will become white real quick and get the fuck outta dodge.

This is not new. It is a time worn play that has been in effect since the jazz age when white patrons went to black neighborhoods to "slum" or later when the beatniks went for their "spade kicks" ... seeing and using black people as a trope for degeneracy, all the while knowing that at the end of the day they could remove themselves from it, clean up, shave, cut their hair, put on a suit, and move along.

It should also be noted that it's not all that shocking that Eminem has racism in him. Every white person has racism within them. It's unavoidable when you're brought up and immersed in a racist society that confers privilege upon you and tells you in a thousand subtle ways that you're superior. If you recognize it, own it, and then decide to live your life in a socially just way, you're on your way to overcoming it. But the fact is, nobody should be shocked. It's a fact of American life.

NuPwrSoul said:

Beautiful context. I agree totally.

...As for Em's skills, I wanna take up tha debate elsewhere. I'll create a new thread. I don't want to jack this one.

FunkMistress said:

I'm so glad that there's no racism or prejudice amongst black folk. I hope when I die, I come back as a black person so I can speak for my entire race without error.

You dumbass.

helloLadies said:

"You dumbass." What an eloquent way to state your point. Oh, wait. You didn't have a point, did you? Dumbass. First of all, you're assuming I'm black. I'm not. Get a fucking clue. Nobody here has claimed that there is no such thing as intra-racial prejudice. You're a perfect example of what I'm talking about: a white person who refuses to see things for what they are. You don't refute the fact that white people are born with racism, you just want to turn the spotlight away and onto others. Guess what, genius: most of the prejudice that exists within the black community is a product of self-hate which results from white racism. Eat that snarky fucking attitude and go do your homework.

helloLadies said:

Hey hello Ladies. You're speaking to a Lady

Okay. You are NOT a dumbass.

BUT.

What about all the white folks that marched in during the Civil Rights Movement? Were they racist, but serving their own purposes?

I marched in some of those marches as a kid with my parents. My parents raised me in a very different light than the white folks that you speak of, but when I hear the "all white are racist" it just blows my mind.

So, I apologize for calling you a dumbass. But please, you CANT possibly have a clue that ALL white folks are racists. There are LOTS of white folks that made sacrifices and dedicated a part of their lives to IMPROVING the lives of blacks in America. My parents BOTH went to great lengths in their day to day actions, and in how they raised me.
[This message was edited Fri Nov 21 11:36:05 PST 2003 by helloLadies]

A lady who can hold her own I see.

Hi FunkMistress, I'll just be leaving now.

helloLadies said:

1. Yes, I'm assuming you're white. And I think I'm right.

2. I specified that I'm talking about American white people. I never said all American white people are racist pigs, just that some racism exists in every American white person. It doesn't make you bad, it makes you the product of a country with a sick history. It's what you do with it that matters.

3. I never said that all black people were devoid of racist tendencies. That would indeed be a dumb statement; however, you can't find it in my posts.

4. I think I've made it clear whether or not I'm a dumbass.

5. Dumbass.

helloLadies said:

What about them? They were all products of a racist society, therefore they all harbored some kind of racism. Some of them overcame it and truly worked for social justice. Some of them, yes, were serving their own purposes.

BlaqueKnight said:

You should check out the man's other posts. He digs deep.

marcdeondotcom said:

FunkMistress said:

I marched in some of those marches as a kid with my parents. My parents raised me in a very different light than the white folks that you speak of, but when I hear the "all white are racist" it just blows my mind.

So, I apologize for calling you a dumbass. But please, you CANT possibly have a clue that ALL white folks are racists. There are LOTS of white folks that made sacrifices and dedicated a part of their lives to IMPROVING the lives of blacks in America. My parents BOTH went to great lengths in their day to day actions, and in how they raised me.

And it WAS NOT to serve some alterior motive. They saw the mistreatment in the south, and my father walked into the SCLC and said "WHAT CAN I DO TO HELP".
[This message was edited Fri Nov 21 11:38:56 PST 2003 by helloLadies]

helloLadies said:

Good for you. I mean, what do you want, a cookie? So your parents wanted to "help black people." That's great. Paternalistic, but well-intentioned, I'm sure.

Look, I'm not calling you a racist or a bigot, or anything else besides a bit ignorant. I've already made my points, now I'm tired. So go pat yourself on the back for marching, and I'm going back to work.

FunkMistress said:

so I guess being a product of this country if you were born here you are born with racism no matter what color you are simply because the environment everyone has been subject to in this country produces racist peoples.
Quite understandable If you would like to look at it in these ways.


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[This message was edited Fri Nov 21 11:44:25 PST 2003 by GIOVANNI]

Yes, Mistress. I do see why you only post in the Prince forum.

stymie said:

FunkMistress said:

every American White person? or Europeans 2 ? I try not to think in colors.

Em is just a modern day Elvis. His true colors just happen to shine through. He is the turd out of my dog's ass. I would crack his corny ass jaw if he came around my way. I swear to it.

WHOOOA!

FunkMistress said:

guess what...not every white person lives in america

stymie said:

Yup! I guess I'm a twisted fucker too!! But I already knew that. Eminem says it straight, some people just can't stomach it. It takes guts to say what you really feel, and some of his lyrics I can relate to, as can MANY people. Just remember, saying things and actually CARRYING IT OUT are two totally different things. No one here can tell me that they haven't felt violent feeling towards someone ever in their lives, or said something really disgusting about someone else when they've had a rift with someone. They're not human if that's the case. I say, if you don't like it, don't listen to it.

FunkMistress said:

This is categorically WRONG. I'm as white as they come. I would have accepted it better if you had said that "Every PERSON has racism within them".


Where do you get this?

I find that comment to be racist in and of itself. I tend to judge people by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. Saying that EVERY white person has racist tendencies is a total fallacy.

"THATS THE WAY THE CRACKER CRUMBLES"


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[This message was edited Sun Nov 23 9:21:35 PST 2003 by GIOVANNI]