Back in the late 70's there was serious backlash from rock
fans against the musical genre known as DIsco. Rock fans and
rock critics shredded da shit out of disco.
(some radio dj's ..ala steve dahl organized a "disco demolitian night to destroy disco records at Comisky Park
in 1979 to illustrate this point!)

now here's what's funny. back then i was into rock a bit more than disco (although i had some disco records i dug)
yet i didn't see what the big fuss over it was.

yeah there were a zillion shitty disco records out on the market...but i could name almost as many awful Rock songs
too.

here's what i askin' everyone;
1. was DISCO as bad as the critics and rock fans said?
2.was the backlash against disco racially or culturally
motivated. (i'll explain this later on)
3.what are some of the best disco records from the 70's?
4.and what were some of the worst?

i think this should be a interesting discussion.

on the cultural tip...i think some Rock fans crucified
DISCo because of their homophobia. many of the new disco
stars (and fans) were Gay .

i'll asnwer the questions i posed later on...i want to
hear what y'all think

charles "youngca"

It seemed like disco divided musical styles and people. Like it was a euphemism for "black" music and "rock" meant "white." To me, that was the stigma--it was like a label.

I'll never forget seeing this graffiti message scrawled on a bubblegum machine in my neighborhood years ago: "Disco is Nigger Bongo Music." WTF!? How ignorant was that?

There was also the promotion at a ballpark where fans were invited to burn disco records. I don't remember seeing a black face in the crowd.

Disco served its purpose!

The only people who didn't like Disco were those un-cool folks who didn't know how to dance

Seriously though,I think alot of the Disco-hating was based on jealousy.Disco became the dominant music force in the late 70s (roughly the years 1977,78,and 79).Suddenly,rock and roll music became less popular and I think this made alot of rock fans pissed.Disco music became so massive that even some rock bands and artists were jumping on the bandwagon (The Rolling Stone's "Miss You"(1978),Rod Stewart's "Do Ya Think I'm Sexy"(1979) and ELO's "Shine A Little Light"(1979) all contained elements of disco).A backlash was inevitable.

I love Disco music.To me,it's the ultimate party music.Yes,we had our share of whack songs (The Silver Convention's "Get Up and Boogie",The Village People's "In The Navy" for example) but there was more good stuff than bad.The 22 million folks who bought 'Saturday Night Fever' can't be wrong,can they?

1. Good disco was as classic as any other pop music that can stand up to the test of time. As "superior" as rock was said to be, we all know there's horrible rock music out there. But Frank Zappa (of all people!) once said something very wise: There's no such thing as "shit music" as long as there's one person who loves it.

Funny story - I read a story about David Bowie, when he and Brian Eno were recording the "Low" and "Heroes" albums in Berlin in the mid '70s, which many fans, critics and musicologists consider to be very "important" experimental rock albums. One night after an evening of recording, Bowie and Eno went out to a Berlin nightclub, where Bowie heard Donna Summer's "I Feel Love" for the first time. Amazed by the music, Bowie turned to Eno and said, "MY GOD! This is the future of music!"

So say whatcha will about disco.


2. I think the backlash against disco was racially and culturally motivated, sure. I think it was a threat to the sensibilities of those who were rockin' out to KISS and Led Zeppelin, and couldn't wrap their minds around the fact that dance music and rock music could exist side-by-side. I also think a lot of rock musicians looked down on disco because it was an "easy" form of music to play - the four on the floor drumming, the repetitive melodies, and so on - it was a form that prized performance over technical chops, and I think that was threatening to many in the music community who were knocking themselves out trying to make technically complex music.

3. I'll go with anything having to do with Giorgio Moroder, especially the classic Donna Summer albums. I think if you have a copy of "On The Radio", you don't need much else. I also think Sylvester captured the energy of the disco era pretty perfectly.

4. The worst of the disco era were, predictably, the cash-ins that were either novelty tunes or half-hearted attempts to make a dollar off the craze of the day.

Even when I was a kid, I thought the "Disco Sucks" rallies were silly - it says a lot about people's insecurities when they feel a need to hold a massive event in which they create a ritual out of destroying music they don't like. As much as I'd like to round up all the Kenny G. albums in the world and put them in a rocket to the moon, what would that prove and where would I find the time? Why bother?

I think the backlash was due to the lack of "rock" being played on the radio. If you turned on the radio back then, didn't matter which one, you could hear The Bee-Gees or other disco songs. Whenever something "popular" comes along, there is gonna be a backlash.

Same thing happened when Grunge hit the scene. People were sick of the hairband-rock, wanted something else.

It seems that the start of every decade...there is a new "music" scene. 79-80 / Punk and NewWave, 89-90 / Grunge

Since 2000, for the first time, I didn't see a big change in music as in the past. I thought about that recently..and It made me think...

see, i was a serious "Disco boy" lol i aint ashamed of it either, the whole disco sucks movement was created by people who had no soul,no rhythm and just, frustrated hillbillies who couldnt do what people with soul can do




Best disco records of the 70s

1.Doctor orders - carol douglas
2.Touch and go - Ecstacy passion and pain
3.Foot stompin music- Hamilton Bohannon
4.To each his own- Faith hope and charity
5.7,6,5,4,3,2,1 blow your whistle- Gary Tom's Empire
6.Dreamin a dream- Crown Heights Affair
7.Sun.sun.sun- Jaaki
8.Got to have lovin - Don ray
9.Love in C minor -Cerrone
10.Supernature -Cerrone
11.Spring Rain -Sylvetti
12.Nice and Naasty-Salsoul orchestra
13.10 percent -Double exposure
14.i got my mind made up -Instant Funk
15. Come to me- France Joli
16.From east to west-voyage
17.In the Bush -Musique
18.come on dance dance -saturday night band
19.Mainline-Black Ivory
20.Love to love you baby ( Full Disco Mix) Donna Summer



thats my list...

Finess said:

dayum brotha... that is one HARDCORE list ya got going there. damn good too my friend.

--gm--

GeneMohawk said:

I second that! What's a guy gotta do to get a Finess mix tape? Dang...!

UptownDeb said:

Deb...you're on to the other hidden issue that fueled
the backlash between Rock & Disco...which was Race.
(actually to me it wasn't so hidden)

many white buddies of mine (they're still buddies with mine
now) absolutely swore up and down that their "hatred" of
Disco was racially motivated...that it just wasn't good
music . now some of these people...mostly guys i might add
might have actually have been sincere in what they expressed
to me...however some other friends of mine let it be known
that disco sucked cuz it was music for gays. they didn't
see anything wrong with their homophobia.

now i knew some folk who Did see this new music as being
'nigger music". they said this upfront. what you saw on the
bubble gum machine Deb i saw scrawled on walls!


yep race and sex were reasons why some people despised Disco.

great points u-deb!

DavidEye said:

as always david U speak with mucho wisdom!
your opening couplet made me crack up...but U know what?

there is some validity to it.

a lot of the guys i knew who hated disco couldn't dance worth shit. these guys couldn't even dance to Rock songs!

yet they told me "chuck man...rock music is DANCE music not
that disco shit!"

well...years after the fact i'm still laughin' at what they said.

Disco was good and still is good.
There is a lot of shitty rockmusic 2.
Just play Bohannon...then u know disco was good back in those days.

youngca said:

One of my closest friends in the early 80's was this Italian Girl from Bensonhurst, Brooklyn. She never hid the fact that she hated disco. She was a Wendy O'Williams lovin' punk rocker--straight up. But, we were still friends. She invited me to a party she was having in Bensonhurst, but I made some excuse for not coming. I was NOT trying to be caught in that neighborhood in the daylight or night! Sorry. That's just how I felt back then. Seemed that our friendship was never the same after that.

Funny, but hip-hop seems to be the dominant culture and musical trend these days. Yet, I don't see the same type of backlash as there was with Disco. Maybe it's there, but I'm older now, and perhaps a bit out of my element.
[This message was edited Thu Aug 21 7:22:57 PDT 2003 by UptownDeb]

DavidEye said:

True.

Bruce Springsteen once said that he thinks the Disco backlash was indeed racially motivated.

youngca said:

1. Disco definately was not as bad as folks made it out to be. I definately think it has truly never died with the ever-so-often appearances with U2, Jamiroqai, etc., and now I digging Junior Senior.

2. It took money out of the hands of other genres of music so it had to go. I don't really view it as racially motivated.

3. My list could probably go on forever, but since I love disco music and we call some of it deep house here in the Chi, I got a lot of favorites but some are:

I Don't Wanna Be A Freak-Dynasty
Runaway Love-Linda Clifford
Get Off- Foxy
Lovin' Is Really My Game-Brainstorm
Spring Affair-Donna Summer
I Get Lifted-K.C. or George McCrae
Let's Start To Dance-Bohannon
Young Hearts-Candi Staton
Cherchez le Femme-Dr Buzzards Original Savannah Band
Thinking Of You-Sister Sledge
Disco Heat-Sylvester

4. When I think of the worst, the only one that comes immediately to mind is Disco Duck. I remember hating seeing Rick Dees perform that song on Bandstand and Soul Train as a kid.

I can't generalize about racist bullshit. I'm not saying that racists and hillbillys weren't anti-disco, just that it wasn't a clear-cut "race music".

Think about the height of disco and that was Saturday Night Fever and the Bee Gees.

White, Blacks, Italians and everyone was into it.

In my opinion, the people that were against it were the ones who didn't want to change from their music and FM radio. I was in the group that started to get annoyed with disco when it became a fad and artists were doing albums with a disco flavor. Sometimes it worked but most of the time it seemed like it was forced.

I'll never forget being in grade school and the whole third grade doing "the hustle". It makes me laugh even now. Pop culture, ya gotta love it.

The reasoning behind the backlash is simple. Disco did indeed have its share of oversaturation, but so has every other pop culture entity. The main problem dissidents had with disco was its listenership. Disco music evolved from the black/gay dance club scene and is a predecesor to house/garage music (which also evolved from gay/black dance clubs -- The Warehouse in Chicago was a gay club where where House music originated and the Fantasy Garage in New York was a black/gay club where Garage music got its name. Disco was popular in minority communities (specifically black, gay and hispanic communities) and it was an art created by minorities. It was foreign to suburbanites and those who didn't live in urban areas and looked at it only in mainstream/corporate terms ("man, this disco is corny and its corporate man! Punk rawk rulzzz!"). The backlash was based primarily on bigotry from American good ol' boys who thought that their country was being taken over by "n*gg*rs" and "f*gg*ts." Have you noticed that nothing is considered real music or art until some white skin is put on it (remember when conservatives thought of rock 'n' roll as "jungle music", swing as "n*gg*r/k*ke music," etc. You still have people to this day that don't consider hip hop "art" let alone "music" and its been around for over 25+ years now.)

If you get rid of terminology, you'll find that disco never actually died. The term "Disco" got played out but it just metamorphized into house and techno music and then kept going and now you have drum n bass, jungle, bungle, happy hardcore, rave, house, deep house, hard house, ghetto tech, cunty, dub, ghetto house, etc. It's still here.
[This message was edited Thu Aug 21 9:38:43 PDT 2003 by JANFAN4L]

JANFAN4L said:

its called " The Paradise Garage get it right next time

Finess said:

Sue me.

JANFAN4L said:

Whoa!! That was excellent.

JANFAN4L said:

This reminds me of a segment I saw on Elvis once. When he first came on the scene, some whites weren't feelin' his sound, which they labeled "race music" or his gyrating pelvis. Guess the connections to black culture were too much to handle.

Disco was a fantastic musical movement.

Every music genre has it's time in the spotlight - unfortunately usuall the stuff that is remembered most is the commercial end - Y.M.C.A. etc (which has it's place, I'm not knocking the commercial/wider end of genres).

But Disco was a revolution.

It spawned Hi-NRG, Electro, House and every sub-genre of Dance music that has come since - Deep House, Rave, Techno, Garage, Trance - yadda, yadda.

Disco has it's roots elsewhere - Funk, Soul, R&B etc.

It's interesting how Disco took such a bashing in the USA, whilst in the UK and Europe it continued to flourish.

Maybe the bashing was good - it sent Disco underground and it mutated into House.

JANFAN4L said:

Wow,looks like you really broke it down for us!

Best Disco records---
"Native New Yorker" by Odyssey (1978)
"Bad Girls" by Donna Summer (1979)
"Stayin Alive" by the Bee Gees (1977)
"Knock On Wood" by Amii Stewart (1978)
"Boogie Nights" by Heatwave (1977)
"Shadow Dancing" by Andy Gibb (1978)
"Disco Inferno" by The Trammps(1977)
"I Want Your Love" by Chic (1978)
"Disco Nights (Rock Freak)" by GQ (1979)
"Romeo and Juliet" by Alec R.Costandinos (1978)
"My Baby's Baby" by Liquid Gold (1979)
"Ring My Bell" by Anita Ward (1979)
"Hot Number" by Foxy (1978)
"Pick Me Up,I'll Dance" by Melba Moore (1978)
"Midnight Love Affair" by Carol Douglas (1976)
"Love Hangover" by Diana Ross (1976)


Worst Disco Songs (not saying that I hate all these songs,but let's just say they are the most annoying Disco song...lol)
"Instant Replay" by Dan Hartman (1978)
"In The Navy" by the Village People (1979)
"Get Up and Boogie" by Silver Convention (1976)
"Enough Is Enough" by Donna Summer & Barbra Streistand (1979)

DavidEye said:

Agree with you on Instant Replay. I hate that song. Better Dan Hartman cut: Relight My Fire.

stymie said:

better yet vertigo/relight my fire

JANFAN4L...your words were sweet music to these ears...
please take a bow!
what a nice history lesson you gave about how the music
originated.

stymie...U know i liked your words too. (as always)
and anxiety...well U know you speaketh da truth,too.

ok...here's mo' for ya...

answer to question :did disco suck? some of it did...but
some of it was pretty good.
just like rock and all the other forms i dig.

i'm not crackin' on anybody if race did indeed make them
dislike disco...i'm just sayin' what was true.

i'm the type of person who talks to everybody of all races
and ages and don't make statements until i've did some
"interviewing "(smile)

to wit; one of my best friends (a white guy who's like a brother to me) always hated disco but his reason was real
simple. 'in his mind any pop music without guitars in the
mix was not real music!

he hated the way the music was made and couldn't relate to
its stylistic difference from his beloved Rock n roll.

i respect his opinion. and knew he is not racist or homophobic.(he and i have a mutual gay male friend,who's
high on our list of people)

now one other reason he disliked Disco was a subtle one
(one he wasn't aware of) he can't dance a lick!

he couldn't relate to music that was dance related at all.

here's a side note that's sort of funny.

one function of our friendship was me hipping him to music
he never had a chance to hear..like marvin,smokey,stax-volt,
blues...reggae-traditional jazz...he had never heard of
prince so i decided to hip him to p...and the first 2
albums i loaned him were "the second album and Dirty MInd.

the joke was he didn't like neither album...particularly
Dirty MInd. his view was prince's music was Disco.
and didn't have enough GUitar in it!

of course i accepted his opinion. but i had to laugh.
the last time i checked Dirty MInd main sound to me was
prince's hohner telecaster guitar slammin' some funky
rhythms way out in da mix!

but what i'm sayin' is some people's dislike of the genre had
nothing to do with not relating to the audience Janfan4l
mentioned...to their ears it wasn't Rock music so it SUCKED!


as for great disco songs: finess & stymie..i'm with ya on
all the cuts you spoke about...here's some mo'
i dug:

1. hues corporation: rock the boat (an early disco song..
d-eye wasn't this 1975?
2.bee gees:nights on broadway & jive talkin'
3.Gq:disco nights
4.kool and the gang:ladies night (superb tune)
5.heatwave:boogie nights
6.donna summer;heaven knows,love to love you baby,hot stuff,
bad girls (donna was the queen of disco)
7.rolling stones:miss you & hot stuff (keith and ronnie wood
were two rock guitarists who knew how to
fit their rock style into disco)
8.gloria gayner:never can say goodbye
9.thelma houston:please don't leave me this way
10.george mc crae:rock your baby (another mid 70's disco
hit.
11.isley brothers:life in the city & its a disco night
12.micheal jackson: off the wall
13.lipps inc:funkytown (early mpls hit)
14.peter brown;dance with me (with betty wright on vocals)

anything bohannon did was da bomb!

and the disco songs i felt sucked:

andrera true connection: more more more (awful vocals)
disco tex & the sexelttes:
rick dees:disco duck
silver convention:fly robin fly
everything by the village people!
walter murphy: a fifth of beethoven
wild cherry; play that funny music (generic disco at its
worse)
kc. & sunshine band: i'm your boogie man & keep on coming
love (he's still makin' a livin' ,,,but what an awful as
singer...repetitive lyrics)

again these are just a few of the bad ones.

overall though disco wasn't nearly as bad as the rock critics made it out to be.

i could give you a 1oo shitty rock records,too.
(and i go back a long way with that music! smile)

charles 'youngca"

oh yeah one other great disco song:
tavares:heaven must be an angel (love this cut!)

if you put mine and dave's lists together u pretty much have the end all be all Disco Compilation

Finess,I know you got that "Larry Levan Live At The Paradise Garage" 2-CD set that came out in 2000.Man,I LOVE this CD!!! It was recorded in 1979 and gives you a good idea of what you would hear on a hot disco night at a NY nightclub.


Disc 1---
"Bourgie,Bourgie" by Ashford and Simpson
"It's Music" by Damon Harris
"At Midnight" by T-Connection
"Put Your Body In It" by Stephanie Mills
"Dreaming A Dream" by Crown Heights Affair
"By The Way You Dance (I Knew It Was You)" by Bunny Sigler
"Right In The Socket" by Shalamar
"Take Me Home" by Cher
"Pick Me Up,I'll Dance" by Melba Moore
"Get On The Funk Train" by Munich Machine
"Here We Go Again" by People's Choice

Disc 2---
"Here We Go Again (cont)" by People's Choice
"Bad Mouthin" by Motown Sounds
"Let Yourself Go" by The Supremes
"Angel In My Pocket" by Change
"Smack Dab In The Middle" by Janice McClain
"Sun Sun Sun" by Jakki
"Trinidad" by John Gibbs and the US Street Band
"My First Mistake" by the Chi-Lites
"Eruca" by Jermaine Jackson



Since I'm sure you hung out at the Paradise Garage and probably dee-jayed there,I'd like your thoughts on this CD,on Larry Levan (considered one of the best Disco-era DJs of all time) and on the songs that Larry chose for this particular night.