stymie said:

Best thing Ive read so far.
And another thing, femmes really need to get off that "why cant I be sexual if I were a man it'd be okay" thing. And I AM a femme saying this Women need to stop using that excuse to get undressed and act like skank, Im just not buying that crap. You dont need to prounce around and act like a hoochie schoochie la la la to be sexual, sensual, erotic and all them other words. Beyonce is 2faced and tired and I used to love her and wanted to BE her but that quickly went down in a spiral once I saw her image change all the way back to...uh...when the original DC broke up. 21 has nothing to do with her being a grown ass woman either, Im sorry but if she werent a star and acting all out like this, her mama and her papa would be on that ass telling her to act like a lady and not to think that she was ever to grown for them to shut her down! Its just like that in the majority of black families and thats the truth. Pops is pimping Beyonce, remember, he was the one who quit his job and risked his marriage to make sure his daughter made it so he could live in the life of luxury.

I agree with you Cherriemoonkisses. I brought up her parents' involvement and someone said "and". And so I would expect a little more from them. You got black parents=conservative. Supposedly Christian=conservative. And from Texas=conservative. So what's up with all the booty? It's just for money. As a parent, there is no amount of money that is worth my child's self-respect. And if people think that B is getting respect by dressing like that, they are sadly mistaken. And the part about black parents threatening to give you the beat down no matter what is so true. My 13 year old can dance her ass off. I watch videos with her sometimes and I always tell her that if I ever catch her ass on TV dancing half-dressed like those women, I am going to kick her ass no matter how old she is. Is she listening? I don't know but I raise her in such a way that she thinks I just might do it.
There are plenty of singers who have made it without showing their ass. Did Joe have Janet showing her ass when he was her manager? Did Brandy's mom have her out there like that? What about Monica? What about the greats...Aretha, Gladys, Whitney? No ass shaking seen there. So it is possible to make it without dressing like that. Where does B want to be grouped. With the people that made it on talent such as Aretha and Gladys? Or with the people that made it on sex...Like Brittny Spears?

illimack said:

Plus it would help if the new song that just came out didn't sound just like Amerie's Why Don't We Fall In Love.

CherrieMoonKisses said

I think a lot of people are having a hard time separating Beyonce's on stage peformance persona from the real person.

Even at the Essence Awards last week, she wore a beautiful gown, changed into a barely there outfit to perform, then changed back into her gown.

(Honestly, with the heat of some of these comments you'd think she wore her performance clothes to parks and supermarkets. The stripped down attire would definitely convey a different meaning then).


Anyway, it looks like there will always be two camps on this. But good, debate is a good thing that will hopefully cause people to think more about image, presentation, sexuality, God, etc.

SynthiaRose said:

Yay! It always good that we can agree to disagree.

SynthiaRose said:

It doesnt matter, she put herself out there 2 be a role model in the beginning, swore she and her girls, Kelly and Michelle werent like those "Nasty Girls...trashy, tacky, classless girls." and now shes doing it 2 herself...making herself an even bigger target for the haters becuz her stage persona was all about being an Independant classy femme who knew just the right amount of clothes to wear in order to maintain that rep.

illimack said:

I said "and" because it really doesn't matter that her parents are involved. How is someone gonna tell an adult what to do? Nobody tells me what to do, except maybe my boss from time to time



That's pretty ignorant in my opinion (and no I am not calling you ignorant personally) because as your daughter becomes older will most likely pull away from you and your ideals and develop her own and threatening her may just bring her closer to it. You will no longer have control of her once she becomes an adult nor do you have the right to. Parents have trouble dealing with that. Black parents have a habit of threatening violence instead of dealing with the problem at hand. It's that old slave mentality. What does being black have anything to do with this anyway? I'm black. I come from a highly religious family who originated in South Carolina, but not one of them is going to tell me how to dress or how to act. They may voice their opinions, but I make the sole descison on what I do or don't do. If my parents put their hands on me, they'd be in jail in a second, plain and simple. Keep in mind her parents work for her. If my parents came at me trying to control what I wore, I would fire them in a second. Yes, she is grown. Time served on Earth doesn't mean you grow in mind. A 30 year old can still be immature and a 21 year old can be more mature that a 40 year old. It has to do with the individual, but don't discount a person just because they're a young adult. An adult is an adult. Someone is calling you a "baby" somewhere right now also



Janet? That was a different era when the most provocative thing was George Michael's "Wake Me Up Before You Go-go" shorts. That's like saying "Judy Garland didn't wear mini skirts." It was an entirely different era. Unfortunately, things have become more and more provocative over the years, but don't blame the artist. Blame the consumer. Brandy's mom took it to the extreme, not even allowing her to show her navel. That was just stupid to me. Aretha, Whitney, and Gladys? They got in the business when fat people could get records deals too, but you don't see too many fat superstars in today's age, do you? Like I said, a different era

I finally saw the whole video and nothing I saw was skimpy or slutty except that outfit she wore while standing next to Jay-Z and even then, she had that mink (or whatever) over her. Also, I think there is a difference between what you wear on stage and in a video and what you wear walking down the street. It's all for show, an act, just like what you see in the movies and on t.v.

You know what? I don't even like Beyonce, so I'll stop defending her now. I'm done

Look at these Beyonce lyrics:




***

I think lyrics like these prove Beyonce's no "skank" "ho" or loose woman.


To judge someone just on their performance attire is really unfair.

I think you have to consider the entire persona Beyonce projects. Any girl listening to these lyrics (and those from some other songs) would solidify her self-esteem.

There are plenty of modest women who dress conservatively and are really sluts.
And there are performers who dress revealing everywhere (mariah sometimes, lil'kim) and sing demeaning lyrics about how they need a man and what they are going to do to that man and how they fell apart over that man.

Beyonce is not one of them.
[This message was edited Sun Jul 6 9:50:14 PDT 2003 by SynthiaRose]

stymie said:

that has to be the biggest load of christian prudism i have heard in a long time.

mrdespues said:

mrdespues, trust me. I ain't no prude, but I am a parent. I follow no organized religion because I consider it all to be evil. Once folks start spewing out their pieholes God this, God that, I look at them totally different. The bigger problem lies in the fact that she feels that shaking her ass, being half-naked to sell music is okay. What does it say to youth? How can she be a role model when I can't let my kids watch her video? Society says a lot of shit is cool but it ain't.

imnotsayinthisjust2bnasty said:

u know what? u r so right. think that everybody knows by now that she is a very sexy young woman, so y does she have 2 flaunt it out like that so much? on DC last album there's a song called "Nasty Girl" which talks about woman dressing 1/2 naked. BUTTER UM... isn't that how she's dressed. mean girlfriend please. save that hypocritical drama.

SynthiaRose said:

u know Synthia, u're right, she is an adult who is now 21 years old. but, she does still wear her mother's designs. on the front of her new cd cover, it says inside of the booklet that her MOTHER designed that revealing diamond shirt. now her parent (FATHER) who is the manager, looks over things and comment about their artists appearences and other stuff. mean that's what managers usually do. they also give advice on how 2 represent themselves in public. so in other words, she is prostituting herself 4 the industry because of her parents.

did Kelly and Michelle (members of Destiny Child) shake their ass in front of the camera too. no, they didn't. there is definantly a favoritisim thing going on. and please don't compare her apart from Mariah and Lil Kim, because truely don't c any difference @ all.

sorry

Oh my goodness Janfriend. Now I'm talkig ignorance? Tell me friend, how many children have you raised? Just because your parents couldn't tell you anything at 18 doesn't mean that all children are like that. My mother was pretty strict with me. Did I rebel and drift away from her. Nope. It's all an individual thing. But of course you in all ofl your parental wisdom know that right? And as far as calling the police on your parents if they touch you? What kind of statment is that? So the people who worked their ass off to feed you, keep a roof over your head, keep clothes on your back, took care of your ass while your were sick, wiped your dirty ass, etc. etc,...have no right to "put their hands on you?" Please, you need to gone with that new psychology. I got plenty of ass woopings growing up and guess what...I learned my lesson, took my lumps and soldiered on. I don't know when parents started buying into that nonsense about not spanking your kids. Look around you friend...do the kids act better since that new psychology started.. or do they act worse...it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out. It would never cross my mind to call the police on my family because I got wooped. Cause I never got one that I didn't deserve. And if you think that ass wippings started in slavery, you better think again. You ever talked to anyone born in the mother land...You should try it sometime. They will quickly tell you that children born over there dont get away with nearly the shit that kids get away with over here. In fact, the lady that braids my hair is from Ghana. She left her teenager over there because she didn't want him getting corrupted by these half-raised fools that we got running around here. She said thatin Ghana, not only will the parents woop a kids ass, the police will come and help them woop their kids ass. Ass woopings are universal. Dont you remember a couple of years back when that American was over in Singapore and he stole something and they sentenced his ass to be hit 10 times with a cane? They don't play that shit in other countries. I don't raise my kids with the philosphy that if I do certain thing I might alienate them or they may drift away from me. I try to teach them what is right and what is wrong. If they don't like it so be. I have an open door policy in my house. If you don't like my policies...there is the door. Get to steppin.
But I digres...this aint' about my philosphy on child rearing, it's about Beyonce and the way she dresses. You said that Brandi's mom wouldn't let her show her navel. To use your word..."and" Was she not successful? You said that Janet wasn't show skin because it wasn't in fashion back then... Madonna been running around here half naked for damn near 20 years...Where you been girl?
You said that gladys and Aretha came out when fat people could still get contracts... Once again...where you been girl? You ever heard of Ruben Studdard, Kelly price, Missy Elliot??? HELLO
Anyway, you're right...Beyonce has the right to dress however she wants to. This is America. She aslo has the right to pick her nose in public but she doesn't do that now does she..? Why? Because she knows that it's not acceptable. It would be nice if we lived in a world where dresssing the way that she dresses would also be not acceptable.

Peace and b wild.

*** HERE'S A JULY 8 ARTICLE WHERE BEYONCE SAYS GOD IS OK WITH HER BEING SEXY ***


http://music.lycosasia.co...787_C.html

Chart topping stunner BEYONCE KNOWLES insists she isn't compromising her Christianity by baring her flesh in a succession of skimpy outfits.

The DESTINY'S CHILD star - who's scored number one solo success in the British and American charts - is a devout Methodist, but claims the "main person in my life" doesn't mind her looking sexy.

She says, "I honestly believe He wants people to celebrate their bodies - as long as you don't compromise your Christianity in the process.

"God is the main person in my life and I would never do anything to offend Him.

Because the three of us in the band (Destiny's Child) are open about our faith, it has been easy for people to criticise.

"They say it is hypocritical to wear sexy clothes then sing about God, but it's not like that at all.

SynthiaRose said:

The question I want to know the answer to is: Does she wear outfits like that to church?

i think she's great. i'm glad for all these R&B artists making it even though i may not like them all. Beyonce is a grown woman, her parents understand that they couldn't tell her what to wear forever, yes her mom makes her clothes and i'm sure her mom understands how fashion goes as well.
Beyonce doesn't go around singing about her pussy or how she wants dick every minute, she's beautiful and so she dresses with confidence and her lyrics at least have some dignity to them

illimack said:

:worshiP:

illimack said:

Uh, I never said anything about spanking a child. I was responding to something you said about being hit as adult if you did something your mother didn't approve of. As an adult, my mother does not have the right to put her hands on me...don't even get me started on spanking. You said something about feeding, clothing, putting a roof over their head...that is what a good parent is SUPPOSED to do. Your child owes you NOTHING for that. Your child didn't ask to be here. My parents could have chose not to have me, chose to give me up, or chose to be shitty parents. How can you expect your child to be grateful just because you took responsibility for your actions? That's a ridiculous demand

Your friend in Ghana probably left her son because she couldn't bring him with her. The men have custody of the children there

Madonna was doing her own thing back then. Majority of the artists back then were not prancing around half naked back then. hello?

Kelly Price and Missy were working behind the scenes first and basically earned their record deals. They had to use that back door first. Ruben, most likely, wouldn't have gotten his record deal (based on image) if he wasn't on American Idol and had the public voting for him. You can count successful overweight artists in your hand