BlaqueKnight said:

Because you know TTD's work and I don't, I can't argue there.





Again, no argument.



Sure.




Well, Pearl Jam, Grateful Dead, et al. gave away LPs and allowed bootleggers to tape their concerts. There are even those who insist that P released his outtakes to bootleggers to get it out there. But few artists do that, you're right.

But did TTD have any choice in the matter? He'd been written off by the labels because his records didn't sell. What other option does he have to get his music out there? Don't think for a second that he wouldn't love to have "the machine" behind him. That's human nature.




A lot of artists with no deal do that in this day and age, Blaque.




I recongize and respect his prolific talent. He ain't no Prince, though. Sure, he's got a better voice than Prince, but that's like saying, hey, Jamaal Wilkes had a better J than Magic, so he's just as good a player. Prince is not only a supreme musical talent, but he has a legacy of hits and artistic triumphs that have inspired scores of artists all over the world. TTD is a great talent, but he ain't even close to that level.


All that being said, I will check out this new LP. I'm looking forward to it.

I enjoyed listening 2 Wildcard, but I got bored after a few trax. Thanx tom 4 the lyric postings. Turn the Page is great poetry (somewhat Dylanesque - that's Bob not Thomas, but take ur pick). Still, the others r pretty pretentious (so is TTP, but he manages 2 pul it off there).

He tries too hard to show that he's clever, and he's not clever enough not to need to try so hard!

He has no concept of irony.

Wildcard is interesting, his singing is beautiful, but his attitude is so intensely self-aggrandizing (even when it's pretending 2 b introspective) that it starts 2 wear u down, and I get tired listening.

Nevertheless, I do like it. I liked Hardline and NFNF too. I just don't LOVE them.

abierman said:

abierman said:

As much as I like the Hardline album it remains my least favourite of his. Go figure.

RhythmMan said:

exactly. people need to get over stupid shit terence said years ago. T said in an interview with HUH? magazine that
"when you're young and impressionable and all of a suddent are faced with huge success YOU START TRIPPIN"

so he was trippin when he was talkin shit

GET OVER IT ALREADY


if that's all you can say is " i don't like terence because he talked shit 10 YEARS AGO..."

well what does one say to that really?

namepeace said:

you're right about that


[This message was edited Wed Jun 11 7:15:58 PDT 2003 by pimpdoutt]

pimpdoutt said:

You're right, he's not Prince, he's Sananda. He doesn't fuck his fans over, play games with his releases, force eliteism on his fans in order to acquire his music, etc. and so on. I think he is a better singer than Prince, although at one point, I liked more of Prince's material than Sananda's. Yeah, Prince may have more skills, but in the grand scheme, Prince is mid-level as well. Prince has influenced more people because he has had WAY more opportunities than most other artists - and WAY WAY WAY more airtime. Its DEFINATELY NOT because he is talented, but rather because WB bankrolled a lot of dough on him and timing allowed for much of his success. Granted, he has great material, but Prince is an ENTITY. What is PRESENTED as Prince is actually a LOT of people working to create the ILLUSION that its ONE PERSON doing everything. Sananda doesn't play mind games with the public. He is a great singer and an even greater lyricist (I think he's also a better lyricist than Prince in some ways. Different, that's for sure). That's how he presents himself. He IS abov average, maybe YOU just don't see it. Its cool though. Everybody can't like everybody. Just because you don't like someone doesn't mean they suck, though. We'll just have to agree to disagree on TTD. Peace.

BlaqueKnigh said:

Okay. That being said, a lot of great musicians had contempt for their fans -- Miles is the first to come to mind -- but that character flaw doesn't deter from their musical legacies.

In any event, since when does being an asshole mean you can't like one's music? Apparently he was a real jerk to pimpdoutt, but you have nevertheless been pumping TTD. Not many musicians could be canonized for sainthood.



Fair enough. There have been tons of singers with better voices than Prince, and I won't dispute that TTD may be one of them.



Define "grand scheme" and "mid-level."

If you're talking about the entire history of music, maybe. Even if you're talking 20th/21st century popular music, Prince ain't no Coltrane, Miles, Duke, or Jimi, let's be clear.

But let's talk about the actual era in which Prince has performed and recorded, i.e., the last 25 years. In terms of talent, recorded output, performing ability, and degree of influence, I can make a strong argument that Prince is the best single musical artist of that period.

If you think Sananda is in his class, that's your opinion.

It's certainly not mine.



Read the post, Blaque. Prince was, and is, a supreme talent, but unlike Sananda, he was savvy in the way he rose to prominence. Once he gained a following, he used his "bankability" to make challenging music. He's made plenty of mistakes along the way, but he had plenty to do with his own success.

WB bankrolled him because of his talent. He wasn't a creature of a marketing machine. To say otherwise is simply absurd.

Sananda did little to help his own cause despite a promising start. He has not managed his career as shrewdly as Prince did (until the last decade, anyway). He apparently burned a lot of bridges before he made his mark -- whereas Prince made his mark and THEN proceeded to burn every bridge he had.

But I digress. Sananda has therefore not had the type of influence Prince had because he didn't sell many records and the label didn't back him. But, Blaque, let me ask you this question: Whose fault is that? Not yours or mine. It lies with your beloved Sananda.




Prince has had a great supporting cast, but name a great artist who hasn't? As for Prince's character flaws, no argument there.



Your opinion. Fair enough. But I never denied Sananda was an impressive musical talent.



Get yourself, Blaque. Now you're just wrong. Read my post. I respect his skills and I am looking forward to getting his album. So slow your roll and get your facts right.




I didn't say I didn't like him. Okay, let me try this one more time:

TTD is undeniably a very TALENTED artist . . .

I WANT to hear his new stuff. . .

But Blaque, he is NOT in the same class as Prince. That dog don't hunt.


[This message was edited Wed Jun 11 15:40:04 PDT 2003 by namepeace]

Marrk said:

No argument there. It's a nice site!

namepeace said:[quote]
Okay. That being said, a lot of great musicians had contempt for their fans -- Miles is the first to come to mind -- but that character flaw doesn't deter from their musical legacies.

In any event, since when does being an asshole mean you can't like one's music? Apparently he was a real jerk to pimpdoutt, but you have nevertheless been pumping TTD. Not many musicians could be canonized for sainthood.


Having contempt for their fans isn't a good thing and doesn't excuse the behavior. And you're right - it DOESN'T deter from a musical legacy. I like Sananda even though back in his TTD days when I met him, he was an asshole towards me.

Hey, folks, did TTD play on the Craig Kilborn show yet? I hope I didn't miss it.

BlaqueKnight said:[quote]namepeace said:[quote]
Okay. That being said, a lot of great musicians had contempt for their fans -- Miles is the first to come to mind -- but that character flaw doesn't deter from their musical legacies.

In any event, since when does being an asshole mean you can't like one's music? Apparently he was a real jerk to pimpdoutt, but you have nevertheless been pumping TTD. Not many musicians could be canonized for sainthood.


Having contempt for their fans isn't a good thing and doesn't excuse the behavior. And you're right - it DOESN'T deter from a musical legacy. I like Sananda even though back in his TTD days when I met him, he was an asshole towards me.







I made this bed, I will lie in it.

You want the argument? okay, here's the argument:

Recorded Music: Prince is as prolific as they come, with recordings of wildly various styles. Much of his work is pretentious, some derivative, but as a body of work it's hard to match during that time frame. Artists and groups of various genres -- pop, rock, r and b, jazz, and classical -- have covered his work.

Performing ability/skill: Prince plays a wide variety of instruments, and while he may not be deemed a master at any one, he is more than adept at all. He has a good voice with above-average range, and his live performances are always captivating.

Commercial Success: Prince's record, CD, memorabilia, VHS/DVD sales speak for themselves. Suffice it to say he's sold tens of millions of items during his career.

Degree of Influence: Scores of artists have been influenced by his work in a lot of different genres. Several of his albums are held in high esteem by his critics, peers and fans. Many artists speak highly, if not reverently, of him as an artist and an influence. Miles Davis himself said that Prince was "the Ellington of his day."

Those factors, among many, constitute my opinion that an argument can be made that Prince is the single greatest musician of the last 25 years. And I AM talking all music.

So now that you've made your statements, make YOUR case.

If you're so bold to say he'd get "smoked on all levels," name every artist who'd "smoke" him. Specifically, name every artist that has surfaced in the last 25 years that matches or exceeds him in each of those factors during that period. Of any genre. Each and every one.

As a fan of a lot of different kinds of music, I find that check you wrote is gonna be awfully hard for you to cash.






That's essentially what I said, right? So that settles that!









Now, now, such language! I am shocked a Prince fan would use such language!



Has it ever occurred to you that Prince may have been the best one to build around? And that says what? They bankrolled him because he was the most talented "one-man-band" they had. He wasn't Stevie or Hendrix out the box, but he showed enough to stand out.



As far as I know, WB wanted Prince to be its Stevie Wonder because he had the chops. Sure he was pretty, but if he were pretty and sucked, he wouldn't have lasted too long.

Merchandising may have been a factor, I'm not blind to that. But to say merchandising/marketing was the sole reason is itself, "B.S."





Modern music as a whole bears out your point about talent. But for you to presume that the label didn't see the mileage they could get out of Prince's musical potential long-term is, again, "B.S." You yourself said he played WB. He was probably their most problematic artist. Why? Because in your words, he used the label to do things his way.

There is a difference between being a "creature of marketing" and an "artist with stong marketing support." Prince's success would not have come without his talent.
So I disagree with you there.



So he was hyped. But do you think WB would hand him the keys to the store if he couldn't play a lick?





Okay. Agreed.

But Blaque, he is NOT in the same class as Prince. That dog don't hunt.



I don't dislike Sananda. At least he can sing and play. And I don't think his pretentiousness is unique to him. A lot of these talented cats are that way.

BlaqueKnight said:

The behavior is inexcusable, but I guess that comes with the territory of being music lovers.

I've just discovered TTD, and so far I have found him to be breathtakingly good- much like when I first got into Prince. He is really very good, the only thing you can do is listen to one of his albums and ignore the Prince comparisons- they are really not that similar

sermwanderer said:

It's great to see when new people discover TTD's / Sananda's talent. If you want to find out more about him and his music, watch videos of him or listen to free downloads check out his site http://www.sanandapromotion.com/

Serious said:

I did just that and i'm really digging him. His voice is something else, it really is. I am in love with 'As Yet Untitled'