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Thread started 07/29/22 1:09am

TrivialPursuit

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Beyoncé - Act I: Renaissance

Beyonce's new album, part one of a three part series, Renaissance was released at midnight.

Beyonce-RENAISSANCE-cr-Carlijn-Jacobs-billboard-1548.jpg

  1. I'm That Girl
  2. Cozy
  3. Alien Superstar
  4. Cuff It
  5. Energy (featuring Beam)
  6. Break My Soul
  7. Church Girl
  8. Plastic off the Sofa
  9. Virgo's Groove
  10. Move
  11. Heated
  12. Thique
  13. All Up In Your Mind
  14. American Has A Problem
  15. Pure/Honey
  16. Summer Renaissance

Sample credits

  • "I'm That Girl"
    • contains elements of "Still Pimpin", written by Tommy Wright III and Andrea Summers and performed by Tommy Wright III & Princess Loko.
  • "Cozy"
    • contains an excerpt of "Bitch I'm Black" by Ts Madison
    • contains a sample of "Get With U", written by Curtis Alan Jones and performed by Lidell Townsell & M.T.F
    • contains a sample of "Unique", as performed by Danube Dance featuring Kim Cooper.
  • "Alien Superstar"
    • contains an interpolation of "I'm Too Sexy", written by Rob Manzoli, Richard Fairbrass, and Christopher Fairbrass and performed by Right Said Fred
    • contains a sample of "Moonraker", written by John Michael Cooper and performed by Foremost Poets
    • contains a sample of Barbara Ann Teer's "Black Theatre" speech
    • contains a sample of "Unique", written by Kim Cooper and Peter Rauhofer and performed by Danube Dance.
  • "Cuff It"
    • contains an interpolation of "Ooh La La La", written by Mary Brockert and Allen McGrier and performed by Teena Marie.
  • "Energy"
    • contains an interpolation of "Ooh La La La", written by Mary Brockert and Allen McGrier and performed by Teena Marie
    • contains an interpolation of "Milkshake", written by Pharrell Williams and Chad Hugo and performed by Kelis
    • contains a sample of "Explode", written by Freddie Ross and Adam Piggot and performed by Big Freedia.
  • "Break My Soul"
    • contains elements of "Show Me Love", written by Allen George and Fred McFarlane and performed by Robin S.
    • contains a sample of "Explode", written by Freddie Ross and Adam Piggot and performed by Big Freedia.
  • "Church Girl"
    • contains a sample of "Center Thy Will", written by Elbernita Clark and performed by The Clark Sisters
    • contains elements and interpolations of "Where They At", written by Jimi Payton, Dion Norman, and Derrick Ordogne and performed by DJ Jimi
    • contains elements and interpolations of "Think (About It)", written by James Brown and performed by Lyn Collins
    • contains elements of "Drag Rap (Triggerman)", written by Orville Hall and Phillip Price and performed by the Showboys.
  • "America Has a Problem"
    • contains a sample of "Cocaine", written by Tino McIntosh and Andrell Rogers and performed by Kilo Ali.
  • "Pure/Honey"
    • contains a sample of "Miss Honey", written by Andrew Richardson, Count Maurice, and Moi Renee and performed by Moi Renee
    • contains a sample of "Cunty (Wave Mix)", written by Eric Snead and Jerel Black and performed by Kevin Aviance
    • contains a sample of "Feels Like", written by Michael Cox and Kevin Bellmon and performed by MikeQ & Kevin Jz Prodigy.
  • "Summer Renaissance"
    • contains elements and interpolations of "I Feel Love" written by Donna Summer, Giorgio Moroder, and Pete Bellotte and performed by Donna Summer.



I counted 10 of the 16 songs sampling 23 tracks by other artists. The albums lists 20 producers, and 68 people listed as "Music By," which obviously includes the sampled artists.

The album is dance and disco. Songs segue right from one to the next. With the interploitation of other artists, it almost comes across as a mixtape, rather than an actual album.

The runtime is 62 minutes. It is danceable, cocky, a lot of 4-on-the-floor. Everything from the opening track chanting the F word, to the word "cunty" to talking about sucking dick or whatever sexual, the album spans a lot of different things.

She's good at curating other people's material or ideas anda putting them into a cohesive playlist. She's definitely more of a singer than a songwriter.

I enjoyed it overall. But I always look at her music with a slight filter of "what would this be without this Greyhound full of people helping her?"

Vinyl cover:


beyonce-vinyl-cover-tgj.jpeg

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #1 posted 07/29/22 8:36am

RJOrion

This album is terrible...not one song on it that i would ever want to play again...i used to be a big fan, but she's lost me after "Love On Top" (her greatest song ever)
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Reply #2 posted 07/29/22 9:31am

SolaceAHA

It seems like she has hit that "Mariah" phase now with her albums

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Reply #3 posted 07/29/22 9:53am

89Flowers

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I have not listened to it yet but DAMN!!!! She spent millions to put this together considering all the credits, samples and cast and crew.

This post has been modified from its original thought. It has been formatted to fit into the space and run in the time allotted.
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Reply #4 posted 07/29/22 1:49pm

uPtoWnNY

RJOrion said:

This album is terrible...not one song on it that i would ever want to play again...i used to be a big fan, but she's lost me after "Love On Top" (her greatest song ever)

She never had me to begin with... lol

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Reply #5 posted 07/29/22 3:39pm

gandorb

And of course, completely revered by the press. Currently has am 89 score Metacritic, which takes an average across several reviews. That puts it in the top 5 for the year.

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Reply #6 posted 07/29/22 3:56pm

RJOrion

gandorb said:

And of course, completely revered by the press. Currently has am 89 score Metacritic, which takes an average across several reviews. That puts it in the top 5 for the year.



Movie and music reviews are mostly paid for
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Reply #7 posted 07/29/22 6:24pm

gandorb

RJOrion said:

gandorb said:

And of course, completely revered by the press. Currently has am 89 score Metacritic, which takes an average across several reviews. That puts it in the top 5 for the year.

Movie and music reviews are mostly paid for

If so, why do the hugest stars with the most money often get bad reviews much of the time including latter day MJ, Prince after SOTT, Madonna, Drake, etc. You must not follow Metacritic, as the top new studio albums this year are by the Nova Twins and Nadia Nastasia, respectively. These unknown artists are the ones that get the best reviews typically. Besides, music reviews have never translated into sales so it would be a waste of money to buy them. When is the last time you heard someone buy music due to a good review they read. There are people who truly think Beyonce is the bomb, like it or not. It is not like they are paying people to go her concerts, stream her music or concerts, and even buy her albums (she is one of the few artists who still sells some). What she does have a huge advantage in is marketing. She makes every release a major event, just as Adele does. The media loves talking about her in part because everyone has an opinion about her so they pay attention to her even when it is frustration about how much attention she gets. It is noteworthy that this album may be more radio friendly than her previous few. Although radio is not the player it used to be, it is noteworthy that her first single off this release is doing well on TOP 40, Hot Adult Contemporary, Rhythmic, and Urban Adult Contemporary. In other words, on almost all major formats besides country. If you counter by saying that was bought too, it is a known fact that her singles haven't done well on Top 40 since she went Black with Lemonade. I am not trying to convince you that Beyonce or her latest album are good, but I think it is overly dismissive and reductive to say her success and praise is all because she is paying people off. There is a lot more at play here.

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Reply #8 posted 07/29/22 7:42pm

SanDiegoFunkDa
ddy

Never really a Beyonce fan but the album isn't that bad its ok. I've been a fan of Disco/House music since I was a little kid. I wish she would have expanded the music more with better chord structures like modern Deep House music

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Reply #9 posted 07/30/22 10:22am

SolaceAHA

There is already an article where KELIS calls Beyonce "Disrespecful" for using or lifting a song of hers as a sample and citing this as a collabo, problem mainly is/was Kelis is not listed as a writer for the song, Pharrell who produced the Kelis track just basically applied it here. KELIS main issue is Pharrell talks about "artists rights and rework your deals" and then does this and Beyonce talks of "Female empowerment" but its only good if you walk the talk. this is my main problem with mainstream and creating music today, with twenty song writers needed to write a song that a third grader could and then all these people who werent even there taking production credits and this and that, this has been a huge issue. The grammy last year said it was giving an actual award to all listed in credits for an album of the year, and when they looked it would mean almost a 100 trophies going out for the nominees with the exception of one or two that had a few writers and one or two producers. Sorry but this has happened before especially in the Beyonce camp, whether its her, her dad, her company, but as Kelis called it in the article, bullying, cant really say she is wrong.

https://thatgrapejuice.ne...8Hw6MFhquM

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Reply #10 posted 07/31/22 8:12am

LILpoundCAKE

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I have never listened to a full album of hers. But "Alien Superstar" came up on a playlist on Spotify somehow and I love it. Fun track. Made me listen to the album, and that's also nice.

"if U're lookin' 4 dirt look in Ur own back yard / plant some peace flowers in Ur warzone so I can fire my bodyguards."
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Reply #11 posted 07/31/22 6:14pm

TrivialPursuit

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BEYONCÉ remains her back album, IMO. It was the first time we saw her stretch well beyond the loops & acapella vocals aesthetic. I think "Love on Top" from 4 now stands as a precursor to that.

I was happy to hear her actually using instruments and real production. It's a moody and ethereal album with some solid cuts. I wore the shit out of it when it came out. I was never that thrilled about any Beyonce album before the self-titled one.

There were always 2-4 good, catchy songs on those former albums. And they often relied heavily on a a sample. "Crazy In Love," "Deja Vu," "Naughty Girl" (the first of two times she's sampled Donna Summer), and others. Others were just her voice and a beat ("Single Ladies"). Yet she's shown she could use a full instrumentation on a song and make it work. "Baby Boy," "Me, Myself & I," "Irreplaceable," "Party" are a few.

The rest on her albums are mundane, uninspired filler.

BEYONCÉ, and later Lemonade, showed her real growth musically (despite those albums having a gazillion producer and songwriting credits).

Renaissance still comes off, as I noted, as a mixtape, which I'm fine with. I sorta take it how it comes. It's a fun album for just some dance music.

And let's remember folks have been doing this sort of nu-disco for a minute. Doja Cat, Solange, SZA and others have been tipping in that for a while.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #12 posted 08/01/22 10:15pm

tritoncin

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Kelis speaks about it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vS3tfy7AjMY

"America is a continent..."
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Reply #13 posted 08/02/22 6:15am

seand67

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Oh well.....

[Edited 8/3/22 4:55am]

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Reply #14 posted 08/02/22 10:27am

CynicKill

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Reply #15 posted 08/02/22 11:14am

SolaceAHA

This is not just a Beyonce thing, you can almost look at everything coming out now, these songs have turned into major "productions" like a broadway show, because of it thats why it has to get plays, on playlists, airplay, its this generations payola.

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Reply #16 posted 08/02/22 11:39am

CynicKill

It kinda makes me respect artists like Billie Eilish and Lana Del Rey even more, who's albums typically have two producers or songwriters at best, the artist being one of them.

I like Beyonce but it takes a village.

Billie Eilish got criticized because she kept comparing herself to Beyonce in a self deprecating way at Coachella.

Don't worry Billie, all you need is to add a few exrtra hundred people to your team and you too can be her.

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Reply #17 posted 08/02/22 9:24pm

TrivialPursuit

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CynicKill said:

I like Beyonce but it takes a village.


That's a very good line for it. I like her music, too, but it's the whole block.

The Diane Warren thing had the Beyhive in a twist, too. But Diane was right asking, "why are there 24 songwriters on ONE SONG?" Someone defended it as part of Black culture and sampling became an art form. Another person said, "The same reason you have 13 nominations and no wins." I thought, well, at least Diane's mostly done that on her own or with one writer. She's a go-to, not these people Beyonce is pulling in (and I'm looking at you too, Madonna).

"Okay fine. But TWENTY-FOUR PEOPLE ON ONE SONG?! It's a song, goddamn it. A maid in Vegas could write a song by herself while changing a toilet paper roll!

I will point to the fact that she's not listed as music writer on this record, just lyric writer.

It's a paradox in that it's as mind-boggling as much as it's really not boggling at all.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #18 posted 08/03/22 1:07am

kingcheetah

This line of criticism is so outdated, tired, petty, and it's lowkey anti-black. Hip-hop was literally built on sampling.

RENAISSANCE is an evident love letter to the dance music and black queer culture of the 70s, 80s, and 90s that Beyoncé's gay "Uncle Johnny" introduced her to, and which has always informed her persona and performances. That's why there are so many samples and quotes - partially because this is a tribute, and partially because this is the music Beyoncé grew up on and she's reveling in it. She is at the point (rich enough) where she can afford to use so many samples AND shine a [green 💲] light on the original creators, many of which are obscure - she samples three separate drag artists in "Pure/Honey".

Also, a lot of the interpolations and samples, on this album and in today's pop in general are the same types artists have done for years without citation. However, times and intellectual property laws have changed. Especially after that ridiculous Blurred Lines decision, no one in pop music is trying to make records that even FEEL like other songs lest a lawsuit occur, so credit will be given for a "vibe" now - "Break My Soul" neither actually samples or quotes "Show Me Love", it just uses the same keyboard voice as one of the song's remixes. In general, you see so many credits on records now because anyone who contributes ANYTHING, even a suggestion, is credited... lest a lawsuit occur.
[Edited 8/3/22 1:23am]
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Reply #19 posted 08/03/22 7:36am

SolaceAHA

Well its a tale of two generations and this is not only RB music so I dont get where people are saying this is a first, and only in one genre. Its not, its what is mainstream now to an extent you have a lot of songwriters listed, this is due to samples, influence, but also producers tend to take songwriting credits, this is why last year The grammys said it was giving a statue to everyone listed on an albums writing credits, alsmot all the albums had dozens of producers and ten times more writers, so you literally are handing out 100 statues for an album. I mean Beibers "Peaches" took 14 writers incuding him. The difference now is mainstream is a little bit of everything at this point, RB POP and DANCE you will find this, where as the Rock and Country genre by in large you have writers most of the time its the artists doing it themselves because of revenue, I mean since music by in large does not sell, it streams artists by in large get pennies on a stream, the average is it would take 1,000 streams is between 3-5 dollars total. So if you are streaming 100,000 if youre lucky do the math, and then do the math with sharing that with 13 writers, so this is why all these songs with bigger artists end up on spotify playlists, apple lists, etc....they are paid to be there.

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Reply #20 posted 08/03/22 12:37pm

TrivialPursuit

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kingcheetah said:

This line of criticism is so outdated, tired, petty, and it's lowkey anti-black. Hip-hop was literally built on sampling. RENAISSANCE is an evident love letter to the dance music and black queer culture of the 70s, 80s, and 90s that Beyoncé's gay "Uncle Johnny" introduced her to, and which has always informed her persona and performances. That's why there are so many samples and quotes - partially because this is a tribute, and partially because this is the music Beyoncé grew up on and she's reveling in it. She is at the point (rich enough) where she can afford to use so many samples AND shine a [green 💲] light on the original creators, many of which are obscure - she samples three separate drag artists in "Pure/Honey". Also, a lot of the interpolations and samples, on this album and in today's pop in general are the same types artists have done for years without citation. However, times and intellectual property laws have changed. Especially after that ridiculous Blurred Lines decision, no one in pop music is trying to make records that even FEEL like other songs lest a lawsuit occur, so credit will be given for a "vibe" now - "Break My Soul" neither actually samples or quotes "Show Me Love", it just uses the same keyboard voice as one of the song's remixes. In general, you see so many credits on records now because anyone who contributes ANYTHING, even a suggestion, is credited... lest a lawsuit occur. [Edited 8/3/22 1:23am]


It's not anti-Black to criticize music. Black music is not above critiques. Nor Black artists, or anyone else. People have their own thoughts on things, and they're entitled to think whatever they wish. Yes, hip-hop is built on sampling. We know that, and dont dispute it, nor hate it. One of my favorite moments was when Run DMC circled back to working with Aerosmith for "Walk This Way" in the 80s. At the time, it was revolutionary because no one was really incorporating rap into their songs - not that much (opposed to the way people did in the 90s). Yes, there were some, but for a rock band with a history and catalog like Aerosmith to work with one of the biggest hip-hop and rap acts around was legend happening right before our eyes. So we get all that.

And you are right about it being a huge nod and hug toward queer culture, ballrooms, etc. "Break My Soul" is very similar to George Michael's "Flawless" in messaging, and it's the first thing I thought of when I heard it. The songs are similar in production, but the messages are the same, and that's great.

I don't know that the plethora of sampling is a purpose action toward that culture and history. Being "rich enough to revel in samples" - I don't know if that's an artistic goal or achievement. I think it's a necessity with Beyonce, because frankly she can't write a song like Diane Warren; sitting down and pounding out the whole thing on a piano. Sure, she can write lyrics, work out a melody, harmonies etc. But can she sit down and play drums? Probably not. Can she play a guitar lick, even to show someone else what she wants and hears in her head? Unlikely.

Even the "Milkshake" sample is unnecessary. It's 2022, technology is everywhere in everything and it does most anything you'd want it to do, especially in the studio. She couldn't recreate that, and actually save on having to pay for a sample? She can't get the same keyboard or sounds as "Show Me Love" and recreate that in a fresh way?

You're wrong about that sample, by the way. The writer credits include "Show Me Love"'s two writers, George Allen and Fred McFarlane. Robin S. acknowledged it was her song sampled in there.


People get their citations now. It's the law. That's been a thing for a long time, so that's not an argument.

As far as the "Blurred Lines" thing, I talked - among a group of people - to Marvin Gaye's son years ago, on the heels of all that. The caveat there is that Thicke & company sued them first to say, "this is just a vibe, not a sample or a remake don't sue us." They tried to build a legal barrier to protect themselves. But it blew up in their faces. Mr. Gaye said had they just said something like, "this is a tribue to Marvin Gaye" or similar, giving that acknowledgement in the public, then the Gaye estate would've not thought twice about it. But it was Pharrell and Thicke who started that shit, then got served on it.

I guess my point is that Beyonce has built herself and career as this mega star genius who was just on a plane once, couldn't sleep and pulled out her book and started writing "Bootylicious." Okay maybe she did, but if it weren't for Stevie Nicks doing the work, would Destiny's Child even have that song at all? Would it have been a hit? Let's also not forget she flat out said she wrote "Irreplaceable" and Ne-Yo had to check her ass for that. If she's that big of a genius, why are there 24 songwriters on a song? Too many cooks in the kitchen.

I'd love to see her sit her ass down with one or two producers, and flesh out a record. Do whatever, but narrows that shit down. Tina Turner doesn't write her music, but an album sounds like it belongs together, because the producer and her work it out. Bey should do that. I'd love to hear it.

Don't get me wrong. I still very much enjoy the record. I listened to it last night while sewing. But - it is what it is. And it ain't what it ain't.

[Edited 8/3/22 15:26pm]

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #21 posted 08/03/22 4:56pm

kingcheetah

TrivialPursuit said:

kingcheetah said:

This line of criticism is so outdated, tired, petty, and it's lowkey anti-black. Hip-hop was literally built on sampling. RENAISSANCE is an evident love letter to the dance music and black queer culture of the 70s, 80s, and 90s that Beyoncé's gay "Uncle Johnny" introduced her to, and which has always informed her persona and performances. That's why there are so many samples and quotes - partially because this is a tribute, and partially because this is the music Beyoncé grew up on and she's reveling in it. She is at the point (rich enough) where she can afford to use so many samples AND shine a [green 💲] light on the original creators, many of which are obscure - she samples three separate drag artists in "Pure/Honey". Also, a lot of the interpolations and samples, on this album and in today's pop in general are the same types artists have done for years without citation. However, times and intellectual property laws have changed. Especially after that ridiculous Blurred Lines decision, no one in pop music is trying to make records that even FEEL like other songs lest a lawsuit occur, so credit will be given for a "vibe" now - "Break My Soul" neither actually samples or quotes "Show Me Love", it just uses the same keyboard voice as one of the song's remixes. In general, you see so many credits on records now because anyone who contributes ANYTHING, even a suggestion, is credited... lest a lawsuit occur. [Edited 8/3/22 1:23am]


It's not anti-Black to criticize music. People have their own thoughts on things, and they're entitled to think whatever they wish. Yes, hip-hop is built on sampling. We know that, and dont dispute it, nor hate it. One of my favorite moments was when Run DMC circled back to working with Aerosmith for "Walk This Way" in the 80s. At the time, it was revolutionary because no one was really incorporating rap into their songs - not that much (opposed to the way people did in the 90s). Yes, there were some, but for a rock band with a history and catalog like Aerosmith to work with one of the biggest hip-hop and rap acts around was legend happening right before our eyes. So we get all that.

And you are right about it being a huge nod and hug toward queer culture, ballrooms, etc. "Break My Soul" is very similar to George Michael's "Flawless" in messaging, and it's the first thing I thought of when I heard it. The songs are similar in production, but the messages are the same, and that's great.

I don't know that the plethora of sampling is a purpose action toward that culture and history. Being "rich enough to revel in samples" - I don't know if that's an artistic goal or achievement. I think it's a necessity with Beyonce, because frankly she can't write a song like Diane Warren; sitting down and pounding out the whole thing on a piano. Sure, she can write lyrics, work out a melody, harmonies etc. But can she sit down and play drums? Probably not. Can she play a guitar lick, even to show someone else what she wants and hears in her head? Unlikely.

Even the "Milkshake" sample is unnecessary. It's 2022, technology is everywhere in everything and it does most anything you'd want it to do, especially in the studio. She couldn't recreate that, and actually save on having to pay for a sample? She can't get the same keyboard or sounds as "Show Me Love" and recreate that in a fresh way?

You're wrong about that sample, by the way. The writer credits include "Show Me Love"'s two writers, George Allen and Fred McFarlane. Robin S. acknowledged it was her song sampled in there.


People get their citations now. It's the law. That's been a thing for a long time, so that's not an argument.






Don't get me wrong. I still very much enjoy the record. I listened to it last night while sewing. But - it is what it is. And it ain't what it ain't.

You can't get all that or otherwise this would not even be a discussion. Again, hip-hop - and Beyoncé is in many ways a hip-hop artist - was built on sampling and often used multiple, even MYRIAD samples before Grand Upright Music, Ltd. v. Warner Bros. Records Inc. put a damper on that. And I mean literally built like there were NO original elements to the instrumentals other than maybe scratching. And this "why can't the be original" is the same type of silliness white people said to try to delegitimize hip-hop.

The Beastie Boys' Paul's Boutique is composed pretty much entirely of samples, containing at least 106 samples, up to 25 samples per song ("B-Boy Bouillabaise"), at an average of 7.57 samples per track. If they had released that album today, they would be COMPLETELY fucked in publishing and the writing credits would look FAR longer than RENAISSANCE's - this is what I was referring to when I said these are the types of "samples" people did for years in the era Beyoncé is tributing. But nobody's trying to invalidate them as creatives (mainly because they are men, and partially because they are white), and I bet some of y'all in here go up for that album as a classic. And it absolutely is one.

I don't know that the plethora of sampling is a purpose action toward that culture and history. Being "rich enough to revel in samples" - I don't know if that's an artistic goal or achievement. I think it's a necessity with Beyonce, because frankly she can't write a song like Diane Warren; sitting down and pounding out the whole thing on a piano. Sure, she can write lyrics, work out a melody, harmonies etc. But can she sit down and play drums? Probably not. Can she play a guitar lick, even to show someone else what she wants and hears in her head? Unlikely.

Darling, please do not twist my words and then have the nerve to place your twisting in quotation marks as if I actually said that. I said Beyoncé is rich enough to where she can afford to use a lot of samples if she wants to - she doesn't need to worry about the loss of income. She is reveling in the music she grew up with and that her Uncle Johnny introduced her to. Two completely different thoughts. Thanks!

It is a purpose action because she's shining a light on these artists, and not only is she NOT RIPPING THEM OFF, she's paying them.

*

You do not know that Beyoncé can't write a song like Diane Warren LMFAO. She can. She received traning from an operatic vocalist as a child. She was in performing arts programs in school. She plays piano and has since she was a preteen. She was learning guitar and wrote "Dangerously in Love", a Grammy-winning song, on the instrument. If she really wanted to she could. She doesn't want to.

"She can write lyrics, work out a melody, harmonies" .....okay so she can write a song? Because that's what songwriting is. Lyrics, melody, chords.

PLENTY of songwriters, even plenty of Songwriter Hall of Fame inductees, cannot play fucking drums and guitar... are you serious? Stop expecting everybody to be Prince.

You can always tell who is not a creative and/or has no real knowledge of the music industry once these unrealistic standards and expectations start coming out...

Even the "Milkshake" sample is unnecessary. It's 2022, technology is everywhere in everything and it does most anything you'd want it to do, especially in the studio. She couldn't recreate that, and actually save on having to pay for a sample? She can't get the same keyboard or sounds as "Show Me Love" and recreate that in a fresh way?

The "Milkshake" sample was unncessary to YOU - you are not a creative. The producers (including Beyoncé) may have LOVED having it in there and thought those elements were beneficial to THEIR composition, essential enough to give up publishing. And again — you cannot "recreate" aka RIP OFF anymore without risking being SUED.

You're wrong about that sample, by the way. The writer credits include "Show Me Love"'s two writers, George Allen and Fred McFarlane. Robin S. acknowledged it was her song sampled in there.

No, I am not wrong about the Robin S. "sample". First of all, it was credited as an interpolation, not a sample. Furthermore, the song does not contain any actual melodic or harmonic elements of "Show Me Love". She DID get the same keyboard sound as "Show Me Love"... that is why the song is credited for "uses elements of". Because again... you cannot "recreate" aka RIP OFF anymore without risking being SUED. And technically, that "element" is not from the original "Show Me Love", it's from the remix by StoneBridge that was the hit. And StoneBridge, being a remixer, did not earn a writing credit for that in the first place and is not credited on "Break My Soul".

As far as the "Blurred Lines" thing, I talked - among a group of people - to Marvin Gaye's son years ago, on the heels of all that. The caveat there is that Thicke & company sued them first to say, "this is just a vibe, not a sample or a remake don't sue us." They tried to build a legal barrier to protect themselves. But it blew up in their faces. Mr. Gaye said had they just said something like, "this is a tribue to Marvin Gaye" or similar, giving that acknowledgement in the public, then the Gaye estate would've not thought twice about it. But it was Pharrell and Thicke who started that shit, then got served on it.

Pharrell, Robin Thicke, and T.I. filed a complaint for declamatory relief (basically, protection against a possible lawsuit, seeking no action or damages) the Gaye estate and Bridgeport Music (one of Funkadelic's publishers) because the latter parties were apparently privately threatening to sue and demanding cash settlements. “Plaintiffs, who have the utmost respect for and admiration of Marvin Gaye, Funkadelic and their musical legacies, reluctantly file this action in the face of multiple adverse claims from alleged successors in interest to those artists. Defendants continue to insist that plaintiffs’ massively successful composition, ‘Blurred Lines,’ copies ‘their’ compositions. Whether they SHOULD have done that is up to debate, but that is the reason they gave in the actual suit. And they did say it was a tribute, multiple times. I remember.

I guess my point is that Beyonce has built herself and career as this mega star genius who was just on a plane once, couldn't sleep and pulled out her book and started writing "Bootylicious." Okay maybe she did, but if it weren't for Stevie Nicks doing the work, would Destiny's Child even have that song at all? Would it have been a hit? Let's also not forget she flat out said she wrote "Irreplaceable" and Ne-Yo had to check her ass for that. If she's that big of a genius, why are there 24 songwriters on a song? Too many cooks in the kitchen.

I'm glad you brought up "Bootylicious", I was going to. While you're up here talking about "getting the same sounds" and "recreating" that is actually what Rob Fusari wanted to do with that song. He wanted to replay the "Edge of Seventeen" riff instead of sampling and avoid giving up 50% of publishing, which would be STEALING from Stevie Nicks. Mathew and Beyoncé refused to do this (probably because they knew they would be – wait for it – risking getting SUED), and pulled the sample, gave Stevie her publishing for HER work, and even got Stevie to appear in the video, thereby shining a light on her. That's what she continues to do.

And she did pull her head out of a book and write "Bootylicious" on a plane. She just romanticized how she came across the sample, apparently Mathew's idea.

*

Ne-Yo did not "check" Beyoncé for saying she wrote on a song she wrote on.

"The song is a co-write. I wrote the lyrics, I wrote all the lyrics. Beyonce helped me with the melodies and the harmonies and the vocal arrangement and that makes it a co-write. Meaning my contribution and her contribution made that song what it is."

The 'Sexy Love' singer went to explain, "When I talk about 'Let Me Love You' I don't always speak on the other person that wrote that song with me... If you ask me did I write 'Let Me Love You' I'm gonna say yeah I did."

"She wasn't trying to discredit me, she wasn't trying to take any credit from me, Beyonce is not that kind of person, I know her personally and I know that she wouldn't do me like that."

He added, "I appreciate the love but it wasn't that big a deal."

People have talked about that and twisted it for years in an attempt to discredit ASCAP's first black woman Pop Songwriter of the Year, as if she didn't achieve that honor off of an album she essentially wrote alone to submitted beats (Destiny's Child's Survivor).

*

There are 24 songwriters on a song because there are samples, and everyone who participated in the process, including beatmaking, including suggested changes receives credit FOR THEIR WORK... to avoid the risk of getting SUED, and also to celebrate the work that people put in even if it is one word.

Beyoncé is the executive producer, the visionary and architect, not the sole auteur or a wunderkind and she has never claimed to be such. She has her hand in everything, but she doesn't DO everything because she'd likely die trying considering how expansive her work is at this point. I'd still say she is a genius tbh, because she is the one with the vision and the fortitude to get it carried out. Consistently.

I'd love to see her sit her ass down with one or two producers, and flesh out a record. Do whatever, but narrows that shit down.

I suggest you sit YOUR ass down with one or two producers and flesh out a record if that is what you want lol. Beyoncé has said many times that she enjoys collaborative creation and thinks that it yields better results, which is why she keeps doing it. And obviously it serves her well. Her past three studio albums are her highest scorers on Metacritic.

Tina Turner doesn't write her music, but an album sounds like it belongs together, because the producer and her work it out. Bey should do that. I'd love to hear it.

And you cite TINA and "the producer"? HONEY. Now I just suspect you don't know what you're talking about.

First of all, all of Tina's albums aside from Private Dancer are mid, and Private Dancer has three different production teams and 18 distinct songwriters. All of her albums are like that actually, even Break Every Rule where side A was all written (save David Bowie and Erdal Kızılçay's "Girls") and produced by Terry Britten and Graham Lyle, side B has five different producers and six different writers (grand total of seven and 10, respectively). She has used at least five producers and ten writers on all of her solo albums aside from Rough and Love Explosion (obviously that did not work out well). And she never used samples.

Stop expecting everybody to be Prince!

Don't get me wrong. I still very much enjoy the record. I listened to it last night while sewing. But - it is what it is. And it ain't what it ain't.

If you enjoy the record, which is the entire point, why does anything else really matter?

It's a work of art and labor of love from Beyoncé. Simple.

[Edited 8/3/22 17:20pm]

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Reply #22 posted 08/03/22 6:09pm

TrivialPursuit

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"Milkshake" is being taken out of the future issues of the album, and Kelis' name removed from the credits, as well as Pharrell & Chad's names.


"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #23 posted 08/04/22 5:49am

johnpiex

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I haven't like a B record since 4, and I love it. It's much needed fun. Some might want to hear something a little more profound from a 40 year old, but if I can be a foul-mouthed 40-something, why can't she?

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Reply #24 posted 08/04/22 6:27am

Prog5000

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I've never been a fan but I read the glowing reviews I thought I was missing out on something life changing. I must have streamed the wrong album because it was quite awful. From the artwork to the music, awful.

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Reply #25 posted 08/04/22 6:41am

RJOrion

Prog5000 said:

I've never been a fan but I read the glowing reviews I thought I was missing out on something life changing. I must have streamed the wrong album because it was quite awful. From the artwork to the music, awful.




🎯💯
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Reply #26 posted 08/04/22 10:35am

StrangeButTrue

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It was an ok listen. I prob wouldn't listen to it in full again.

if it was just a dream, call me a dreamer 2
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Reply #27 posted 08/04/22 10:57am

StrangeButTrue

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Enjoying Terry Hunter's remix of "Break My Soul".

IMO Maurice Joshua always provides the best Beyonce remixes, shame he isn't involved.

if it was just a dream, call me a dreamer 2
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Reply #28 posted 08/04/22 2:40pm

phunkdaddy

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I listened to it this morning and I only liked tracks 9 and 10.

The majority of songs on this album are awful. It makes her mediocre songs like Get Me Bodied and Single Ladies sound like Grammy winners. She's cursing on all the tracks like she lost her damn mind. lol Wow. She spent time during the pandemic crafting this nonsense. Sorry Bey please do more movies at least I enjoyed them.

Don't laugh at my funk
This funk is a serious joint
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Reply #29 posted 08/04/22 5:28pm

LoveGalore

I think it's an awesome album. Cuff It, Energy/Break My Soul, Alien Superstar, THIQUE?

Some of y'all sound pretty "thique" too, getting obsessed over someone fairly crediting people in an industry notorious for leaving black people to starve despite writing shit from Hound Dog to, btw, Milkshake (which Kelis also wrote but was swindled out of her royalties as a teen by HER FRIENDS The Neptunes).
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Forums > Music: Non-Prince > Beyoncé - Act I: Renaissance