Well, I am sufficiently in my feelings about it all.

A few quick takeaways.

Rene's footage being in the film makes me wonder - did Janet just have a copy, or did she ask him for it? I noticed he called her Dunk once.

She said Rene proposed to her on a beach during a rainstorm. I think about "What About:"

We walked along the beach
What a moonlit night
He held my hand in his
He kissed me
He said "I wanna spend my life with you... I want you for my wife"

While the song may not be about him, it sure feels like it could be. It'd be a major "fuck you" to write that song about the guy you're still married to, ya know?

Janet noted that around Thriller, MJ started to pull back and change. I think despite being in the business most of his life, he suddenly really saw folks trying to ride coattails. Janet wasn't, but he pulled back from everyone. He even noted one time he couldn't trust anyone except Katherine, and even then he wasn't sure.

Randy is her manager. OKAY RANDALL. Go on and getcha'self a jobby job.

I liked the extra footage from that RN1814 video of Rene and Janet talking about how they met. But also a very telling moment when someone said he had so much "power off her back," that "you just didn't cross Rene."

I loved that the in-studio moment of her being frustrated at something was "You Need Me," the b-side to "Miss You Much." It screams "I belong on Rhythm Nation," but in message it didn't fit. It sounds like the prototype or sister to "Miss You Much." Most folks wouldn't know that song.

The original melody for "Rhythm Nation" is horrible. Thank God they changed that up.

I did expect the first two parts to be a bit lighter fare in many ways, compared to what's coming. janet., Velvet Rope, the divorce, the Super Bowl. Good shit tomorrow!

I'm still absorbing...

[Edited 1/29/22 1:33am]

TrivialPursuit said:

Well, I am sufficiently in my feelings about it all.

A few quick takeaways.

Rene's footage being in the film makes me wonder - did Janet just have a copy, or did she ask him for it? I noticed he called her Dunk once.

She said Rene proposed to her on a beach during a rainstorm. I think about "What About:"

We walked along the beach
What a moonlit night
He held my hand in his
He kissed me
He said "I wanna spend my life with you... I want you for my wife"

While the song may not be about him, it sure feels like it could be. It'd be a major "fuck you" to write that song about the guy you're still married to, ya know?

Janet noted that around Thriller, MJ started to pull back and change. I think despite being in the business most of his life, he suddenly really saw folks trying to ride coattails. Janet wasn't, but he pulled back from everyone. He even noted one time he couldn't trust anyone except Katherine, and even then he wasn't sure.

Randy is her manager. OKAY RANDALL. Go on and getcha'self a jobby job.

I liked the extra footage from that RN1814 video of Rene and Janet talking about how they met. But also a very telling moment when someone said he had so much "power off her back," that "you just didn't cross Rene."

I loved that the in-studio moment of her being frustrated at something was "You Need Me," the b-side to "Miss You Much." It screams "I belong on Rhythm Nation," but in message it didn't fit. It sounds like the prototype or sister to "Miss You Much." Most folks wouldn't know that song.

The original melody for "Rhythm Nation" is horrible. Thank God they changed that up.

I did expect the first two parts to be a bit lighter fare in many ways, compared to what's coming. janet., Velvet Rope, the divorce, the Super Bowl. Good shit tomorrow!

I'm still absorbing...

[Edited 1/29/22 1:33am]

"Randy is her manager. OKAY RANDALL. Go on and getcha'self a jobby job."

Randy has ALWAYS been ride 2 die.

"You Need Me," the b-side to "Miss You Much." It screams "I belong on Rhythm Nation," but in message it didn't fit. It sounds like the prototype or sister to "Miss You Much." Most folks wouldn't know that song."

"You Need Me" was originally part of a TELL ALL album concept about Janet's family. She was going to reveal personal things about them. But it was wiisely scrapped in favor of a socially conscious album..

"The original melody for "Rhythm Nation" is horrible. Thank God they changed that up.'

Janet was singing harmony background on that part.

"I did expect the first two parts to be a bit lighter fare in many ways, compared to what's coming. janet., Velvet Rope, the divorce, the Super Bowl. Good shit tomorrow!"

It was a LOT left out! Like Janet auditioning for the Ms. Butterworth commercial that Kim Fields landed. The short-lived show I worked with her on, & The "Different Strokes" years.

BTW: Debbie Allen(whom I adore) was not very flattering to Janet.

I also knew Janet was married to Rene long before the public knew by my connect @ Virgin records.

[Edited 1/29/22 7:23am]

ChocolateBox3121 said:

"You Need Me" was originally part of a TELL ALL album concept about Janet's family. She was going to reveal personal things about them. But it was wiisely scrapped in favor of a socially conscious album..

I don't believe anything you say because it's utter garbage. I'm just gonna skip reading anything you type from now on. It's better for me.

onlyforaminute said:

I've enjoyed this 1st half. Ready for the 2nd half.

I really do believe the second half is going to be a lot heavier. It'd cover her depression leading up to The Velvet Rope, her subsequent divorce. (I wonder if Tina Landon is going to be in there, too, since they split ways around the same time.) Then the resurgance as a single gal, dating Dupri, the Super Bowl, the black listing by Moonves on all CBS/Viacom outlets, and her subsequent pushback into the spotlight with her music. A lot to cover.

ChocolateBox3121 said:

"You Need Me" was originally part of a TELL ALL album concept about Janet's family. She was going to reveal personal things about them. But it was wiisely scrapped in favor of a socially conscious album.

At the time it came out, I remember it was said that this song was for a movie starring The Time (including Morris) & Janet, not about any Jackson family album. Nothing became of the movie though. Around the time of Condensate, Jimmy Jam mentioned a Time movie that they were supposed to do in the 1980s in an interview, but not anything about Janet being in it.

Very pleased with the first half of the documentary.

Janet's life is filled with so much drama that this thing could've went one of two ways.

It could've went the way I thought it would, highlighting every sensational tidbit for the popcorn set, or this way, a real docunmentary that doesn't shy away from the hard stuff.

But there's an air of sadness that overshadows the proceedings.

It happens when Janet admitted that she never wanted to be a singer. She wanted to go to gymnastics class and study business law.

She never wanted to perform in Vegas.

Good Times wasn't her idea.

She hated FAME.

Probably hated Different Strokes.

She HAD to do another album, hence Control.

The whole James thing was a tragedy!

It's clear that this unhappiness clouded her whole career.

In hindsight she should've quit and went to school after Control, but who does that (quit after a smash album)?

So the hapster wheel turns and we end up with the Janet we have today.

I love Janet but with her the unhappiness was real.

TrivialPursuit said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

"You Need Me" was originally part of a TELL ALL album concept about Janet's family. She was going to reveal personal things about them. But it was wiisely scrapped in favor of a socially conscious album..

I don't believe anything you say because it's utter garbage. I'm just gonna skip reading anything you type from now on. It's better for me.

After Control,John Mcclain wanted Janet to call her next album Scandal and that the songs should focus on all the Jackson family scandals. THIS IS NOT A LIE!

But I will not lose ANY SLEEP if U ever skipped ANYTHING I wrote, Good riddens!

[Edited 1/29/22 17:03pm]

MickyDolenz said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

"You Need Me" was originally part of a TELL ALL album concept about Janet's family. She was going to reveal personal things about them. But it was wiisely scrapped in favor of a socially conscious album.

At the time it came out, I remember it was said that this song was for a movie starring The Time (including Morris) & Janet, not about any Jackson family album. Nothing became of the movie though. Around the time of Condensate, Jimmy Jam mentioned a Time movie that they were supposed to do in the 1980s in an interview, but not anything about Janet being in it.

I'm glad the original concept of the album was scrapped. Negativity NEVER ends well.

The movie with Janet & The Time that was started with the long form video of Control would have been great. But it turned out better that they focused on the MUZIQ together. Then let Janet create her concepts for the videos only.

So, take aways from parts 3 and 4:

* The Rene situation was darker than I suspected. His control over her makes more sense now. But him contributing to her self-image and weight issues was a bit of a surprise, I suppose. The pain killer addiction - not surprising, but not something I necessarily knew (or cared) about him.

Them being glued to each other made sense. Here's why and it's just a minor note:

I remember watching the Velvet Rope Tour DVD. There's a clip (maybe in the Control medley?) where he's standing off stage but in front of the curtain (stage left), and he's in clear view of the audience. He's so intently watching her and the show. I always wondered - why? Why is he there? Why not just camp his happy ass right on the front of the stage to point and give direction? I remember him saying he co-wrote much of The Velvet Rope, but Jimmy later saying, "I don't remember him being there when we were writing songs." I tweeted that he was as good for her as he was bad for her.

* My hands were literally shaking a bit when we was leading up to the Super Bowl. I just wanted the story to really get across well. I believe it did. I wish she'd called Les Moonves' ass out, but maybe he'd already sucked up too much of her space in the last 18 years. It was a revelation to everyone that she told Justin she didn't want any drama for him, and to not make a statement. She was getting hit with it anyway. At that point, they were still friends.

It was after when Janet started to say things like, "I take friendship seriously, and there are certain things friends don't do." So whatever all that entailed, it sounds like maybe she wanted to help protect him at first, but then he sorta ran with it and took advantage of it and she felt left out in the rain. She scratched his back, he didn't return the favor.

* I remember a rumor, that I was never really okay with, that Khia started. Khia stated (just in the last few years) that Janet was uber paranoid with her around because Janet thought Jermaine was going to fuck her or that Khia was trying to fuck Jermaine. It could be why she was relegated to having her "So Excited" parts filmed separately and she wasn't actually in the same space as Janet or Jermaine in the video. The implication was that he cheated, so don't know if it was Khia. Naming names wouldn't have made a difference. She obviously still thinks well of him and "at least he didn't have an addiction." HA

* The funniest shade was them fast forwarding to her having a baby, and not once mentioning Wassim, showing his pic or even that she was married (although she did state "my husband and I"). Nothing about the divorce or breakup, etc. Nothing about his control over her and her adopting so many harsh Islamic dress codes on the Unbreakable World Tour and in life. She was damn near in a Burqa a few times we saw her. Ol' boy didn't get any air time! haha Shady.

* I liked that Tina Landon was in it. She's always spoken well of Janet in more recent years (especially in all those interviews with Kelly Alexander on her radio show). To see her flip off Rene in Hawaii, and everyone got the impression that Rene was "always on," when they just wanted to relax, was particularly interesting. She didn't give a shit.

I do wish they covered Janet and Tina losing their friendship over Robert Vinson's infidelity. It was two major relationships that Janet lost around the same time. TVR tour was over January 1999, then by the time "Doesn't Really Matter" and The Nutty Professor II came out (May 2000), both Rene and Tina were out of the picture. But kudos on a major reset by the time All For You (April 2001) came out.

*As noted, Janet's career has a lot of highs, and a lot of lows. There's no middle line sometimes... but maybe more for her personal life. Her career has always maintained itself and as Gil said, the fans have held her up. Then again, you can't have a documentary about just how wonderful one's life is - you have to show the low parts, too.

In general, I'm happy with it. The stuff that wasn't in there I can live without. What we did get, I'm happy with, too.

I enjoyed watching it. I found it odd the way they recorded Scream, MJ at night and Janet during the day, and they had MJ's part of the set blocked from Janet.

PennyPurple said:

I enjoyed watching it. I found it odd the way they recorded Scream, MJ at night and Janet during the day, and they had MJ's part of the set blocked from Janet.

Yeah, that was shady as fuck. I don't even think it was Michael. It was his people.

One thing I thought about was that movie based on the book by his bodyguard. In the movie, every other assistant said, "Don't call so-in-so, just call me directly." So there was always someone who wanted to be the person that sort of controlled MJ and who got to him.

So knowing that, it's not surprising to hear that people tried to create some fake conflict between them. It seems in the 90s, MJ had really overbearing people in his life. It's almost like he gave up on handling his shit on his own. Maybe he was just tired of the machine of it all. He certainly became less public after HIStory, and the second trial.

But as we were watching, I told my friend, "I'd be like, 'hey, fuck you. I'm Janet Privacy Jackson. I'm going in there.' Just to spike a motherfucker." I don't believe at all that MJ was keeping her off set or whatever.

TrivialPursuit said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

"You Need Me" was originally part of a TELL ALL album concept about Janet's family. She was going to reveal personal things about them. But it was wiisely scrapped in favor of a socially conscious album..

I don't believe anything you say because it's utter garbage. I'm just gonna skip reading anything you type from now on. It's better for me.

Ignore that person, he/she is a proven liar.
I can't wait to binge this man, hard not reading the spoilers.

MickyDolenz said:

ChocolateBox3121 said:

"You Need Me" was originally part of a TELL ALL album concept about Janet's family. She was going to reveal personal things about them. But it was wiisely scrapped in favor of a socially conscious album.

At the time it came out, I remember it was said that this song was for a movie starring The Time (including Morris) & Janet, not about any Jackson family album. Nothing became of the movie though. Around the time of Condensate, Jimmy Jam mentioned a Time movie that they were supposed to do in the 1980s in an interview, but not anything about Janet being in it.

That's what I heard to.
CB just read some Wiki page with iffy info.

[Edited 1/31/22 4:51am]

Let me preface this by saying that I LOVE me some Janet. She's my favorite Jackson. I was impressed with much that was revealed but its SOOOO disappointing that she seemingly will go to her grave denying that the Super Bowl was a stunt. She planned that shit with JT. Both should have told American hypocrites to get over themselves the next morning. Janet was on the forefront of sex-positivity in the 90s and on several albums since but sadly continues to cower when it comes to this one moment in her career. Anyway, she could have admitted to it outright in this doc and ended the charade once and for all. She has nothing to lose at this point and the disclosure would have definitely boosted interest and ratings.

[Edited 1/31/22 6:24am]

JorisE73 said:

TrivialPursuit said:

I don't believe anything you say because it's utter garbage. I'm just gonna skip reading anything you type from now on. It's better for me.

Ignore that person, he/she is a proven liar.
I can't wait to binge this man, hard not reading the spoilers.

Agreed, Joris. Bullshit is bullshit for a reason. John McClain wanted a tell-all album? Who does that? That doesn't happen. It just doesn't. And why would he want it? And why make Janet do it? Why would Janet turn on eight brothers and sisters, plus her parents and anyone else? To what end? What would she gain from it?

I've never read a bigger bunch of garbage on here. At least not in 2022.

eduJ said:

Let me preface this by saying that I LOVE me some Janet. She's my favorite Jackson. I was impressed with much that was revealed but its SOOOO disappointing that she seemingly will go to her grave denying that the Super Bowl was a stunt. She planned that shit with JT. Both should have told American hypocrites to get over themselves the next morning. Janet was on the forefront of sex-positivity in the 90s and on several albums since but sadly continues to cower when it comes to this one moment in her career. Anyway, she could have admitted to it outright in this doc and ended the charade once and for all. She has nothing to lose at this point and the disclosure would have definitely boosted interest and ratings.

[Edited 1/31/22 6:24am]

One thing though:

Rebe said her kids were in the audience during the superbowl.

Would Janet want to expose herself to her nephews?

TrivialPursuit said:

JorisE73 said:

Ignore that person, he/she is a proven liar.
I can't wait to binge this man, hard not reading the spoilers.

Agreed, Joris. Bullshit is bullshit for a reason. John McClain wanted a tell-all album? Who does that? That doesn't happen. It just doesn't. And why would he want it? And why make Janet do it? Why would Janet turn on eight brothers and sisters, plus her parents and anyone else? To what end? What would she gain from it?

I've never read a bigger bunch of garbage on here. At least not in 2022.

That is old garbage though. I think it even was in a book about her.

PatrickS77 said:

TrivialPursuit said:

I've never read a bigger bunch of garbage on here. At least not in 2022.

That is old garbage though. I think it even was in a book about her.

Was it LaToya's? I think even Toya regrets that shit, because 99% of her bullshit back then was puppeted by Jack Gordon. I hope he's rotting in hell for, if no other reason, than abusing a woman for years and years and years.

I'd honestly never heard that unfounded rumor about Scandal or whatever. It's a new one on me (ergo my level of response). Sorta funny when I think about it - that someone would go around and not only perpetuate such bullshit, but actually believe it.

TrivialPursuit said:

PatrickS77 said:

That is old garbage though. I think it even was in a book about her.

Was it LaToya's? I think even Toya regrets that shit, because 99% of her bullshit back then was puppeted by Jack Gordon. I hope he's rotting in hell for, if no other reason, than abusing a woman for years and years and years.

I'd honestly never heard that unfounded rumor about Scandal or whatever. It's a new one on me (ergo my level of response). Sorta funny when I think about it - that someone would go around and not only perpetuate such bullshit, but actually believe it.

No. If I remember correctly and it was in a book, then it was a book about Janet, co-written by Randy Taraborelli. Yeah, I know. Either way, I heard about that before, years ago. But of course, that still makes it bullshit. Just not one made up by this poster.

PatrickS77 said:

No. If I remember correctly and it was in a book, then it was a book about Janet, co-written by Randy Taraborelli. Yeah, I know. Either way, I heard about that before, years ago. But of course, that still makes it bullshit. Just not one made up by this poster.

Funny you mention J. Randy Taraborrelli. I read this book on MJ. So many weird tales in it. And the thing is, he was a friend of the Jackson family. He spent an inordinate amount of time with them over the years. I forget if I still have that book around here or not, but maybe I'll look for that chunk o' shit.

I never quite take Taraborrelli's "reporting" that seriously, although his early stuff was an "if it's a fact it's in there" approach.

I'm sure if he just told the story, he'd have gotten even more sales and made a better living. But his writing style has changed a bit.

I remember a moment when someone asked MJ to sign a copy of JTR's Call Her Miss Ross book. MJ said it was garbage and not to read it. Yet, the family was still friendly with Taraborrelli. The Music and the Madness was published years later, and updated thrice after that, the last time being edited as "The Whole Story" in 2009 after he died. I should go back and read that version.

So JRT has had a very interesting time w/ the Jacksons through the years.

So for you Brits et al, the doc aired on SKY TV over the weekend. Thoughts?

Also, for US people, Janet will be on The Tonight Show starring Jimmy Fallon tonight, February 2. The last time she was on there, she sorta launched Black Diamond. I wonder if she's circling back to do that again? There was a potential Black Diamond song during the credits of the doc, "Luv I Luv."