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My guess, 50 concerts - quickly grab the money and the attention
and fucking out of the company.
His name brand had become too poisoned.

-

To me... Michael Jackson wrote fan-tas-tic pop songs.

mediocre rock songs, and the cheesiest love songs * but some were good.

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I always felt he wanted to be everything 'huge', to be a stand out.

But he basically lost himself in his longing for big numbers and quantities.

Though he had a good nose for great producers to stand by him musically.

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To me he was first and formost a childrens entertainer.

Who always wanted to be bigger than life, very childish actually as I come to think of it.

Like kids, who love to be heard and expressed in superlatives.

Kids easily express themselves in extremes, basically try to understand the world in concepts like black and white, everything is good or everything is evil, or you love something or you hate something.

Or, we all need to come together as one, and love eachother always, andcelebrate differences and religions.

Cold bull shit if you ask me, and that kind of lighthearted messages coming from an so called adult.

That's how I always saw MJ.
The announcement of 50 concerts in one city?
... always trying to express himself in numbers, as if he always had to prove something.
The biggest, the most famous, the best-selling, the king of pop, the coolest, the street-wise tough bloke, the prettiest, the sexual loaded stallion (not dirty, nor explicit, like Prince), etc.

It was Diana that was dirty.
To me, he was the most childish, the most androgynous, the least credible tough boy in the neighborhood, the most operated plastic 'man' i know, the talest giggling 'man', etc.
And also the craziest, the most obscure, the most overrated, the bizarre, shy, strange human being ever,
and the most banal masculinity imitator of the eighties and nineties.
But probably and most importantly the most obscure sexually oriented person who has ever undergone such popularity.

He was a poor lost soul, and deserved so much better (people around him).

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But I love his fan-tas-tic pop songs. And he sure was a very good performer and singer.

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JorisE73 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

So....are we now allowed to insult other posters on this site?

Ask JayCrawford it's the only thing he does here. He got banned for it and now he's back for more.

I know, but Patrick isn't better. Using the word "retarded" isn't cool at all.

ThatWhiteDude said:

I know, but Patrick isn't better. Using the word "retarded" isn't cool at all.

a) Never tried to be cool and b) a retard is a retard. Sorry, if that hurts some of your woke/pc/sjw feelings.

JayCrawford said:

I never said I was 60. I was born in 61. Surely your math skills aren't that bad

Along with everything else he said, ever since he's been hounding these boards, this sentence is the epitome of retardation. He's born in 1961, we have 2021. People assume he's 60 and he calls out their math skills?! WTF?

And yes, I would look it up and quote where he said he's 60, but I'm not wasting further of my time on him.

alphastreet said:

This thread, this is shit

Exactly.

[Edited 2/18/21 7:33am]

PatrickS77 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

I know, but Patrick isn't better. Using the word "retarded" isn't cool at all.

a) Never tried to be cool and b) a retard is a retard. Sorry, if that hurts some of your woke/pc/sjw feelings.

Along with everything else he said, ever since he's been hounding these boards, this sentence is the epitome of retardation. He's born in 1961, we have 2021. People assume he's 60 and he calls out their math skills?! WTF?

And yes, I would look it up and quote where he said he's 60, but I'm not wasting further of my time on him.

alphastreet said:

This thread, this is shit

Exactly.

[Edited 2/18/21 7:33am]

So you actively chose to be an asshole? (Wonder if the mods will snip that).

ThatWhiteDude said:

PatrickS77 said:

Exactly.

[Edited 2/18/21 7:33am]

So you actively chose to be an asshole? (Wonder if the mods will snip that).

Whatever. Why don't you mind your own business, instead of policing what word you think one can use and what not.

[Edited 2/18/21 14:14pm]

GIRLS! Stop it. You're both pretty, now move on.

Jonathan Moffett posted this awhile back.

another alternative setlist according to Michael Prince (MJ's engineer)

bboy87 said:

another alternative setlist according to Michael Prince (MJ's engineer)

Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’

Don’t Stop Til You Get Enough

Rock With You

Drill/They Don’t Care About Us

Human Nature

Stranger In Moscow

Smooth Criminal

They Way You Make Me Feel

You Are Not Alone (possibly cut)

I Just Can’t Stop Loving You

Dangerous

Dirty Diana

Beat It

Thriller/Threatened

Earth Song

We Are The World/Heal The World

Black or White

Billie Jean

Will You Be There (possibly cut)

Man In The Mirror (encore)

You know what's interesting is that MJ never really made a lot of music. His album release was more sparse than other artists. And whie some of the songs from HIStory made it in that tour, it's always just sort of a greatest hits tour. Same opening songs, same schtick (popping out of the stage, not moving, waiting, crazy haired guitar player, the walking back n' forth with "The Way You Make Me Feel," the claw for "Beat It," the long drawn out stuff for "Billie Jean," etc etc etc). There was never anything that new in an MJ show. Even the space ship thing in HIStory was just there, then it wasn't. While he's a great performer, there wasn't really any imaginative stuff in the concert itself. Stages weren't interesting, light shows were mostly the same.

I mean, out of the stuff he did release, he did the same old fucking medley every goddamn time. Same way every time. He can't pull out "Farewell My Summer Love," "You Can't Win," "Baby Be Mine," "The Lady In My Life," P.Y.T.," anything different to change it up? Dude could sing. Why not take a breath and do a sit down section with some slower songs? Man, can you imagine MJ sitting on a stool with a guitarist, a bass player, someone on some percussion, and wheeling a piano out for Greg to play, and just rock some stripped down versions of "Farewell," "Stranger in Moscow," "Gone Too Soon," or whatever? Just a little 15 or 20 minute section.

I don't know. MJ in concert, as far as creative moments, was sorta like Prince videos. Same shit over and over (Prince being 99% performance videos with no narrative or plot line, or even costume change). None of those setlists are that interesting. I love MJ, but he lacked greatly in creating an engaging or surprising show.

TrivialPursuit said:

bboy87 said:

another alternative setlist according to Michael Prince (MJ's engineer)

Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’

Don’t Stop Til You Get Enough

Rock With You

Drill/They Don’t Care About Us

Human Nature

Stranger In Moscow

Smooth Criminal

They Way You Make Me Feel

You Are Not Alone (possibly cut)

I Just Can’t Stop Loving You

Dangerous

Dirty Diana

Beat It

Thriller/Threatened

Earth Song

We Are The World/Heal The World

Black or White

Billie Jean

Will You Be There (possibly cut)

Man In The Mirror (encore)

You know what's interesting is that MJ never really made a lot of music. His album release was more sparse than other artists. And whie some of the songs from HIStory made it in that tour, it's always just sort of a greatest hits tour. Same opening songs, same schtick (popping out of the stage, not moving, waiting, crazy haired guitar player, the walking back n' forth with "The Way You Make Me Feel," the claw for "Beat It," the long drawn out stuff for "Billie Jean," etc etc etc). There was never anything that new in an MJ show. Even the space ship thing in HIStory was just there, then it wasn't. While he's a great performer, there wasn't really any imaginative stuff in the concert itself. Stages weren't interesting, light shows were mostly the same.

I mean, out of the stuff he did release, he did the same old fucking medley every goddamn time. Same way every time. He can't pull out "Farewell My Summer Love," "You Can't Win," "Baby Be Mine," "The Lady In My Life," P.Y.T.," anything different to change it up? Dude could sing. Why not take a breath and do a sit down section with some slower songs? Man, can you imagine MJ sitting on a stool with a guitarist, a bass player, someone on some percussion, and wheeling a piano out for Greg to play, and just rock some stripped down versions of "Farewell," "Stranger in Moscow," "Gone Too Soon," or whatever? Just a little 15 or 20 minute section.

I don't know. MJ in concert, as far as creative moments, was sorta like Prince videos. Same shit over and over (Prince being 99% performance videos with no narrative or plot line, or even costume change). None of those setlists are that interesting. I love MJ, but he lacked greatly in creating an engaging or surprising show.

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And its just that what the majority wants.

And it's just that that cashes in the money.

...apparently.

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TrivialPursuit said:

TrivialPursuit said:

wilmer said:

Exactly my sentiment. And what about the lipsynching?

Honestly though about bringing that up, but I wanted to focus on the show-y aspects of it, not the singing. Every other video I've ever seen of the HIStory Tour was lipsynced front to back pretty much. Like, who are you trying to fool, bruh? And how is it acceptable for Michael fucking Jackson to allow himself to do that?!?! It's another whole thread.

TrivialPursuit said:

wilmer said:

Exactly my sentiment. And what about the lipsynching?

Honestly though about bringing that up, but I wanted to focus on the show-y aspects of it, not the singing. Every other video I've ever seen of the HIStory Tour was lipsynced front to back pretty much. Like, who are you trying to fool, bruh? And how is it acceptable for Michael fucking Jackson to allow himself to do that?!?! It's another whole thread.

Hmm. Maybe the fact that he was dancing for 2 hours!? I saw 21 shows across Europe in '96/'97. I didn't hear people complaining about lipsyncing. They all had a great time. Also, there were some songs sung live. The only song I really did not get the lipsyncing was YANA (or Heal the world). He's not really dancing on that one, but still he only sung the adlibs live. But yeah, it would have been a nice question to ask him why he thought he needed to rely on lipsyncing so much. Like I said, being at the actual show with all the excitment and ambience noise, it's not really that bothering. But watching/listening to recordings it is.

PatrickS77 said:

PatrickS77 said:

it would have been a nice question to ask him why he thought he needed to rely on lipsyncing so much. Like I said, being at the actual show with all the excitment and ambience noise, it's not really that bothering. But watching/listening to recordings it is.

There was a report or story I seem to remember that MJ was suffering some throat situation, and he had to resort to lipsyncing. I just think his voice was older (as most artists go thru) and he couldn't hold it the way he used to.

From what I seem recall MJ suffered from a chronic condition that periodically inflammed his lungs, I believe, and affected his breathing ability and voice. I'd have to look up that info though.

TrivialPursuit said:

I'm not sure that he would've been able to finish the tour/residency, but I would've loved to have seen at least one full show.

RODSERLING said:

In his contract with AEG, MJ had only to do " A high quality performance of at least 80 minutes" He should have stuck to it. From what the movie shows, it was more a 2 hours show.

And once more for the people in the back. He didn't die of exhaustion.

The "selling out" of 50 shows was impressive . . . but until/unless those concerts were performed, they are sort of meaningless in a sense. Nothing was ever delivered.

I watched the documentary. MJ looked lost, and the production really heavily (it not entirely?) on theatrics with an army of dancers to pad out the stage. And, lots and lots of lipsynching.

Se7en said:

The "selling out" of 50 shows was impressive . . . but until/unless those concerts were performed, they are sort of meaningless in a sense. Nothing was ever delivered.

I watched the documentary. MJ looked lost, and the production really heavily (it not entirely?) on theatrics with an army of dancers to pad out the stage. And, lots and lots of lipsynching.

No. They are not. It means that up to 1 mio. people bought tickets for concerts in 1 city.

Must have seen a different documentary then.

EmmaMcG said:

PatrickS77 said:

Hmm. Maybe the fact that he was dancing for 2 hours!? I saw 21 shows across Europe in '96/'97. I didn't hear people complaining about lipsyncing. They all had a great time. Also, there were some songs sung live. The only song I really did not get the lipsyncing was YANA (or Heal the world). He's not really dancing on that one, but still he only sung the adlibs live. But yeah, it would have been a nice question to ask him why he thought he needed to rely on lipsyncing so much. Like I said, being at the actual show with all the excitment and ambience noise, it's not really that bothering. But watching/listening to recordings it is.

Michael Jackson's set lists in later years were similar to Prince's in that they both stuck mainly to crowd-pleasing songs that would appeal to a wider audience. Where they differ is that Prince's shows were centered around "Prince as bandleader" where he would often change arrangements and throw in a few unexpected covers to keep things fresh. Michael Jackson, on the other hand, seemed focused on putting on a show. Not just "a show". But the best show possible for everyone in attendance, many of whom were likely casual fans. Which meant performing the songs exactly as the fans know them. It would be impossible for anyone to sound like they do on record while also dancing and whatnot like he did. So in order to give the casual fans in the audience the show they expect, it meant having to lipsync to most of the concert. He's not lipsyncing out of necessity, it's more so he can give the performance that's expected ie the dancing and theatrics of it all. It would have been nice if he'd done a few smaller shows for his hardcore fans where he'd sing some if his lesser known songs in a more intimate venue but I don't think that would have even been an option. He was too big for that to have worked out. Ultimately, whether singing live or lipsyncing, he was one of the best live acts of all time. And the fact that you can say that despite him lipsyncing many if his hits is a testament to the man and how good he was. Unfortunately, my only experience of seeing him live in concert was so long ago that I barely remember it. All I really remember is a big crowd and a lot of noise. I have a photo of myself in his arms which if I ever figure out how to post pictures on here I'll post it. I'm like 2 or 3 in it. I would have loved to have attended the This Is It shows but it wasn't to be. My advice for anyone disappointed to have gone to a Michael Jackson concert and seen him lipsyncing is to just realise how lucky you are to have seen him at all.

I just don't buy that. Most people have been to a live show before or know that music live is different to on record. I can't recall any lipsynching on the Bad Tour, while there was a split on Dangerous (he did seem to struggle a bit on songs like Human Nature and Billie Jean).

I do agree that HIStory was quite the spectacle when you're halfway back in a huge stadium.