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Reply #90 posted 02/18/21 5:26am

Vannormal

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-

My guess, 50 concerts - quickly grab the money and the attention
and fucking out of the company.
His name brand had become too poisoned.

-

To me... Michael Jackson wrote fan-tas-tic pop songs.

mediocre rock songs, and the cheesiest love songs * but some were good. wink

-

I always felt he wanted to be everything 'huge', to be a stand out.

But he basically lost himself in his longing for big numbers and quantities.

Though he had a good nose for great producers to stand by him musically.

-

To me he was first and formost a childrens entertainer.

Who always wanted to be bigger than life, very childish actually as I come to think of it.

Like kids, who love to be heard and expressed in superlatives.

Kids easily express themselves in extremes, basically try to understand the world in concepts like black and white, everything is good or everything is evil, or you love something or you hate something.

Or, we all need to come together as one, and love eachother always, andcelebrate differences and religions.

Cold bull shit if you ask me, and that kind of lighthearted messages coming from an so called adult.

That's how I always saw MJ.
The announcement of 50 concerts in one city?
... always trying to express himself in numbers, as if he always had to prove something.
The biggest, the most famous, the best-selling, the king of pop, the coolest, the street-wise tough bloke, the prettiest, the sexual loaded stallion (not dirty, nor explicit, like Prince), etc.

It was Diana that was dirty. wink
To me, he was the most childish, the most androgynous, the least credible tough boy in the neighborhood, the most operated plastic 'man' i know, the talest giggling 'man', etc.
And also the craziest, the most obscure, the most overrated, the bizarre, shy, strange human being ever,
and the most banal masculinity imitator of the eighties and nineties.
But probably and most importantly the most obscure sexually oriented person who has ever undergone such popularity.

He was a poor lost soul, and deserved so much better (people around him).

-

But I love his fan-tas-tic pop songs. And he sure was a very good performer and singer.

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #91 posted 02/18/21 5:50am

ThatWhiteDude

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JorisE73 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

So....are we now allowed to insult other posters on this site? confused


Ask JayCrawford it's the only thing he does here. He got banned for it and now he's back for more.

I know, but Patrick isn't better. Using the word "retarded" isn't cool at all.

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."

Poppys, Shanon319, Number23, Kares. #lifttheban
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Reply #92 posted 02/18/21 7:30am

PatrickS77

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ThatWhiteDude said:

I know, but Patrick isn't better. Using the word "retarded" isn't cool at all.


a) Never tried to be cool and b) a retard is a retard. Sorry, if that hurts some of your woke/pc/sjw feelings.



JayCrawford said:

I never said I was 60. I was born in 61. Surely your math skills aren't that bad


Along with everything else he said, ever since he's been hounding these boards, this sentence is the epitome of retardation. He's born in 1961, we have 2021. People assume he's 60 and he calls out their math skills?! WTF?

And yes, I would look it up and quote where he said he's 60, but I'm not wasting further of my time on him.



alphastreet said:

This thread, this is shit


Exactly.

[Edited 2/18/21 7:33am]

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Reply #93 posted 02/18/21 12:24pm

ThatWhiteDude

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PatrickS77 said:

ThatWhiteDude said:

I know, but Patrick isn't better. Using the word "retarded" isn't cool at all.


a) Never tried to be cool and b) a retard is a retard. Sorry, if that hurts some of your woke/pc/sjw feelings.




Along with everything else he said, ever since he's been hounding these boards, this sentence is the epitome of retardation. He's born in 1961, we have 2021. People assume he's 60 and he calls out their math skills?! WTF?

And yes, I would look it up and quote where he said he's 60, but I'm not wasting further of my time on him.



alphastreet said:

This thread, this is shit


Exactly.

[Edited 2/18/21 7:33am]

So you actively chose to be an asshole? (Wonder if the mods will snip that).

"Like books and BLACK LIVES, Albums still MATTER."

Poppys, Shanon319, Number23, Kares. #lifttheban
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Reply #94 posted 02/18/21 2:04pm

PatrickS77

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ThatWhiteDude said:

PatrickS77 said:


Exactly.

[Edited 2/18/21 7:33am]

So you actively chose to be an asshole? (Wonder if the mods will snip that).


Whatever. Why don't you mind your own business, instead of policing what word you think one can use and what not.

[Edited 2/18/21 14:14pm]

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Reply #95 posted 02/18/21 2:14pm

TrivialPursuit

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GIRLS! Stop it. You're both pretty, now move on.


"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #96 posted 02/18/21 4:33pm

bboy87

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Jonathan Moffett posted this awhile back.

another alternative setlist according to Michael Prince (MJ's engineer)

Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’
Don’t Stop Til You Get Enough
Rock With You
Drill/They Don’t Care About Us
Human Nature
Stranger In Moscow
Smooth Criminal
They Way You Make Me Feel
You Are Not Alone (possibly cut)
I Just Can’t Stop Loving You
Dangerous
Dirty Diana
Beat It
Thriller/Threatened
Earth Song
We Are The World/Heal The World
Black or White
Billie Jean
Will You Be There (possibly cut)
Man In The Mirror (encore)
"We may deify or demonize them but not ignore them. And we call them genius, because they are the people who change the world."
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Reply #97 posted 02/18/21 5:29pm

alphastreet

Nice set list!
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Reply #98 posted 02/18/21 9:32pm

TrivialPursuit

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bboy87 said:

another alternative setlist according to Michael Prince (MJ's engineer)

Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’
Don’t Stop Til You Get Enough
Rock With You
Drill/They Don’t Care About Us
Human Nature
Stranger In Moscow
Smooth Criminal
They Way You Make Me Feel
You Are Not Alone (possibly cut)
I Just Can’t Stop Loving You
Dangerous
Dirty Diana
Beat It
Thriller/Threatened
Earth Song
We Are The World/Heal The World
Black or White
Billie Jean
Will You Be There (possibly cut)
Man In The Mirror (encore)


You know what's interesting is that MJ never really made a lot of music. His album release was more sparse than other artists. And whie some of the songs from HIStory made it in that tour, it's always just sort of a greatest hits tour. Same opening songs, same schtick (popping out of the stage, not moving, waiting, crazy haired guitar player, the walking back n' forth with "The Way You Make Me Feel," the claw for "Beat It," the long drawn out stuff for "Billie Jean," etc etc etc). There was never anything that new in an MJ show. Even the space ship thing in HIStory was just there, then it wasn't. While he's a great performer, there wasn't really any imaginative stuff in the concert itself. Stages weren't interesting, light shows were mostly the same.

I mean, out of the stuff he did release, he did the same old fucking medley every goddamn time. Same way every time. He can't pull out "Farewell My Summer Love," "You Can't Win," "Baby Be Mine," "The Lady In My Life," P.Y.T.," anything different to change it up? Dude could sing. Why not take a breath and do a sit down section with some slower songs? Man, can you imagine MJ sitting on a stool with a guitarist, a bass player, someone on some percussion, and wheeling a piano out for Greg to play, and just rock some stripped down versions of "Farewell," "Stranger in Moscow," "Gone Too Soon," or whatever? Just a little 15 or 20 minute section.

I don't know. MJ in concert, as far as creative moments, was sorta like Prince videos. Same shit over and over (Prince being 99% performance videos with no narrative or plot line, or even costume change). None of those setlists are that interesting. I love MJ, but he lacked greatly in creating an engaging or surprising show.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #99 posted 02/24/21 2:12am

Vannormal

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TrivialPursuit said:

bboy87 said:

another alternative setlist according to Michael Prince (MJ's engineer)

Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’
Don’t Stop Til You Get Enough
Rock With You
Drill/They Don’t Care About Us
Human Nature
Stranger In Moscow
Smooth Criminal
They Way You Make Me Feel
You Are Not Alone (possibly cut)
I Just Can’t Stop Loving You
Dangerous
Dirty Diana
Beat It
Thriller/Threatened
Earth Song
We Are The World/Heal The World
Black or White
Billie Jean
Will You Be There (possibly cut)
Man In The Mirror (encore)


You know what's interesting is that MJ never really made a lot of music. His album release was more sparse than other artists. And whie some of the songs from HIStory made it in that tour, it's always just sort of a greatest hits tour. Same opening songs, same schtick (popping out of the stage, not moving, waiting, crazy haired guitar player, the walking back n' forth with "The Way You Make Me Feel," the claw for "Beat It," the long drawn out stuff for "Billie Jean," etc etc etc). There was never anything that new in an MJ show. Even the space ship thing in HIStory was just there, then it wasn't. While he's a great performer, there wasn't really any imaginative stuff in the concert itself. Stages weren't interesting, light shows were mostly the same.

I mean, out of the stuff he did release, he did the same old fucking medley every goddamn time. Same way every time. He can't pull out "Farewell My Summer Love," "You Can't Win," "Baby Be Mine," "The Lady In My Life," P.Y.T.," anything different to change it up? Dude could sing. Why not take a breath and do a sit down section with some slower songs? Man, can you imagine MJ sitting on a stool with a guitarist, a bass player, someone on some percussion, and wheeling a piano out for Greg to play, and just rock some stripped down versions of "Farewell," "Stranger in Moscow," "Gone Too Soon," or whatever? Just a little 15 or 20 minute section.

I don't know. MJ in concert, as far as creative moments, was sorta like Prince videos. Same shit over and over (Prince being 99% performance videos with no narrative or plot line, or even costume change). None of those setlists are that interesting. I love MJ, but he lacked greatly in creating an engaging or surprising show.

-

And its just that what the majority wants.

And it's just that that cashes in the money.

...apparently.

-

"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves.
And wiser people so full of doubts"
(Bertrand Russsell 1872-1972)
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Reply #100 posted 02/24/21 2:49am

coldcoffeeandc
ocacola

No he looked like he was suffering from anorexia he was weak

He'd have managed 1 a week for a few weeks then dropped to 1 a month, but the anxiety he'd have felt from this inability would have paralysed him and made him so sick I don't think he'd have made it anyway.

He was stylish, lovely outfit when he filmed TDCAU looked best he had in years facially. But you have to look at his little limbs to see he was suffering again with his image.
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Reply #101 posted 02/24/21 2:54am

coldcoffeeandc
ocacola

TrivialPursuit said:



bboy87 said:



another alternative setlist according to Michael Prince (MJ's engineer)


Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’

Don’t Stop Til You Get Enough

Rock With You

Drill/They Don’t Care About Us

Human Nature

Stranger In Moscow

Smooth Criminal

They Way You Make Me Feel

You Are Not Alone (possibly cut)

I Just Can’t Stop Loving You

Dangerous

Dirty Diana

Beat It

Thriller/Threatened

Earth Song

We Are The World/Heal The World

Black or White

Billie Jean

Will You Be There (possibly cut)

Man In The Mirror (encore)



You know what's interesting is that MJ never really made a lot of music. His album release was more sparse than other artists. And whie some of the songs from HIStory made it in that tour, it's always just sort of a greatest hits tour. Same opening songs, same schtick (popping out of the stage, not moving, waiting, crazy haired guitar player, the walking back n' forth with "The Way You Make Me Feel," the claw for "Beat It," the long drawn out stuff for "Billie Jean," etc etc etc). There was never anything that new in an MJ show. Even the space ship thing in HIStory was just there, then it wasn't. While he's a great performer, there wasn't really any imaginative stuff in the concert itself. Stages weren't interesting, light shows were mostly the same.

I mean, out of the stuff he did release, he did the same old fucking medley every goddamn time. Same way every time. He can't pull out "Farewell My Summer Love," "You Can't Win," "Baby Be Mine," "The Lady In My Life," P.Y.T.," anything different to change it up? Dude could sing. Why not take a breath and do a sit down section with some slower songs? Man, can you imagine MJ sitting on a stool with a guitarist, a bass player, someone on some percussion, and wheeling a piano out for Greg to play, and just rock some stripped down versions of "Farewell," "Stranger in Moscow," "Gone Too Soon," or whatever? Just a little 15 or 20 minute section.

I don't know. MJ in concert, as far as creative moments, was sorta like Prince videos. Same shit over and over (Prince being 99% performance videos with no narrative or plot line, or even costume change). None of those setlists are that interesting. I love MJ, but he lacked greatly in creating an engaging or surprising show.



I think he was scared to do acoustic sit downs. He thought he had to do A SHOW as that's what he thought was expected.
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Reply #102 posted 02/24/21 3:06pm

wilmer

TrivialPursuit said:



bboy87 said:



another alternative setlist according to Michael Prince (MJ's engineer)


Wanna Be Startin’ Somethin’

Don’t Stop Til You Get Enough

Rock With You

Drill/They Don’t Care About Us

Human Nature

Stranger In Moscow

Smooth Criminal

They Way You Make Me Feel

You Are Not Alone (possibly cut)

I Just Can’t Stop Loving You

Dangerous

Dirty Diana

Beat It

Thriller/Threatened

Earth Song

We Are The World/Heal The World

Black or White

Billie Jean

Will You Be There (possibly cut)

Man In The Mirror (encore)



You know what's interesting is that MJ never really made a lot of music. His album release was more sparse than other artists. And whie some of the songs from HIStory made it in that tour, it's always just sort of a greatest hits tour. Same opening songs, same schtick (popping out of the stage, not moving, waiting, crazy haired guitar player, the walking back n' forth with "The Way You Make Me Feel," the claw for "Beat It," the long drawn out stuff for "Billie Jean," etc etc etc). There was never anything that new in an MJ show. Even the space ship thing in HIStory was just there, then it wasn't. While he's a great performer, there wasn't really any imaginative stuff in the concert itself. Stages weren't interesting, light shows were mostly the same.

I mean, out of the stuff he did release, he did the same old fucking medley every goddamn time. Same way every time. He can't pull out "Farewell My Summer Love," "You Can't Win," "Baby Be Mine," "The Lady In My Life," P.Y.T.," anything different to change it up? Dude could sing. Why not take a breath and do a sit down section with some slower songs? Man, can you imagine MJ sitting on a stool with a guitarist, a bass player, someone on some percussion, and wheeling a piano out for Greg to play, and just rock some stripped down versions of "Farewell," "Stranger in Moscow," "Gone Too Soon," or whatever? Just a little 15 or 20 minute section.

I don't know. MJ in concert, as far as creative moments, was sorta like Prince videos. Same shit over and over (Prince being 99% performance videos with no narrative or plot line, or even costume change). None of those setlists are that interesting. I love MJ, but he lacked greatly in creating an engaging or surprising show.



Exactly my sentiment. And what about the lipsynching?
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Reply #103 posted 02/24/21 6:18pm

TrivialPursuit

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wilmer said:


Exactly my sentiment. And what about the lipsynching?


Honestly though about bringing that up, but I wanted to focus on the show-y aspects of it, not the singing. Every other video I've ever seen of the HIStory Tour was lipsynced front to back pretty much. Like, who are you trying to fool, bruh? And how is it acceptable for Michael fucking Jackson to allow himself to do that?!?! It's another whole thread.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #104 posted 02/25/21 1:24am

PatrickS77

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TrivialPursuit said:

wilmer said:


Exactly my sentiment. And what about the lipsynching?


Honestly though about bringing that up, but I wanted to focus on the show-y aspects of it, not the singing. Every other video I've ever seen of the HIStory Tour was lipsynced front to back pretty much. Like, who are you trying to fool, bruh? And how is it acceptable for Michael fucking Jackson to allow himself to do that?!?! It's another whole thread.

Hmm. Maybe the fact that he was dancing for 2 hours!? I saw 21 shows across Europe in '96/'97. I didn't hear people complaining about lipsyncing. They all had a great time. Also, there were some songs sung live. The only song I really did not get the lipsyncing was YANA (or Heal the world). He's not really dancing on that one, but still he only sung the adlibs live. But yeah, it would have been a nice question to ask him why he thought he needed to rely on lipsyncing so much. Like I said, being at the actual show with all the excitment and ambience noise, it's not really that bothering. But watching/listening to recordings it is.

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Reply #105 posted 02/25/21 11:56am

EmmaMcG

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PatrickS77 said:



TrivialPursuit said:




wilmer said:



Exactly my sentiment. And what about the lipsynching?


Honestly though about bringing that up, but I wanted to focus on the show-y aspects of it, not the singing. Every other video I've ever seen of the HIStory Tour was lipsynced front to back pretty much. Like, who are you trying to fool, bruh? And how is it acceptable for Michael fucking Jackson to allow himself to do that?!?! It's another whole thread.




Hmm. Maybe the fact that he was dancing for 2 hours!? I saw 21 shows across Europe in '96/'97. I didn't hear people complaining about lipsyncing. They all had a great time. Also, there were some songs sung live. The only song I really did not get the lipsyncing was YANA (or Heal the world). He's not really dancing on that one, but still he only sung the adlibs live. But yeah, it would have been a nice question to ask him why he thought he needed to rely on lipsyncing so much. Like I said, being at the actual show with all the excitment and ambience noise, it's not really that bothering. But watching/listening to recordings it is.



Michael Jackson's set lists in later years were similar to Prince's in that they both stuck mainly to crowd-pleasing songs that would appeal to a wider audience. Where they differ is that Prince's shows were centered around "Prince as bandleader" where he would often change arrangements and throw in a few unexpected covers to keep things fresh. Michael Jackson, on the other hand, seemed focused on putting on a show. Not just "a show". But the best show possible for everyone in attendance, many of whom were likely casual fans. Which meant performing the songs exactly as the fans know them. It would be impossible for anyone to sound like they do on record while also dancing and whatnot like he did. So in order to give the casual fans in the audience the show they expect, it meant having to lipsync to most of the concert. He's not lipsyncing out of necessity, it's more so he can give the performance that's expected ie the dancing and theatrics of it all. It would have been nice if he'd done a few smaller shows for his hardcore fans where he'd sing some if his lesser known songs in a more intimate venue but I don't think that would have even been an option. He was too big for that to have worked out.

Ultimately, whether singing live or lipsyncing, he was one of the best live acts of all time. And the fact that you can say that despite him lipsyncing many if his hits is a testament to the man and how good he was. Unfortunately, my only experience of seeing him live in concert was so long ago that I barely remember it. All I really remember is a big crowd and a lot of noise. I have a photo of myself in his arms which if I ever figure out how to post pictures on here I'll post it. I'm like 2 or 3 in it. I would have loved to have attended the This Is It shows but it wasn't to be. My advice for anyone disappointed to have gone to a Michael Jackson concert and seen him lipsyncing is to just realise how lucky you are to have seen him at all.
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Reply #106 posted 02/25/21 12:18pm

TrivialPursuit

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PatrickS77 said:

it would have been a nice question to ask him why he thought he needed to rely on lipsyncing so much. Like I said, being at the actual show with all the excitment and ambience noise, it's not really that bothering. But watching/listening to recordings it is.


There was a report or story I seem to remember that MJ was suffering some throat situation, and he had to resort to lipsyncing. I just think his voice was older (as most artists go thru) and he couldn't hold it the way he used to.

"eye don’t really care so much what people say about me because it is a reflection of who they r."
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Reply #107 posted 02/25/21 12:28pm

purplethunder3
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From what I seem recall MJ suffered from a chronic condition that periodically inflammed his lungs, I believe, and affected his breathing ability and voice. I'd have to look up that info though.

"Music gives a soul to the universe, wings to the mind, flight to the imagination and life to everything." --Plato
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Reply #108 posted 02/25/21 2:29pm

alphastreet

Yeah I think it was in the autopsy report that his lungs were inflamed
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Reply #109 posted 02/27/21 3:40am

wilmer

TrivialPursuit said:



wilmer said:



Exactly my sentiment. And what about the lipsynching?


Honestly though about bringing that up, but I wanted to focus on the show-y aspects of it, not the singing. Every other video I've ever seen of the HIStory Tour was lipsynced front to back pretty much. Like, who are you trying to fool, bruh? And how is it acceptable for Michael fucking Jackson to allow himself to do that?!?! It's another whole thread.



Good point. Is it even acceptable? And if it is true that he was having vocal issues, wouldn't then fans deserve to know? I mean he could have been like 'I'll be lipsynching to the songs my fans want to hear'. Because unless I am not aware of it, I don't think there was a History Tour show in which he sang at least the slow stuff live. So that would make it a conscious decision from the start. It's not like his voice crapped out halfway and decided to lipsync from that point onwards.

There's all types of fans. I understand that there are fans who don't care, but I'm one of those who fetishizes MJ's singing. Thats why I wish that if the Estate were to release anything they started from Bad backwards. Starting with Dangerous, I was always suspicious and looking for confirmation that the vocals were live as at times he would sing to pre-recorded live vocals.

I understand that nobody t can't sing live to Dangerous or Billie Jean while dancing, but then don't open the mic to grunt out the adlibs cause it makes you sound like a crow by contrast. It was a total gimmick. But hey it's a personal preference.
[Edited 2/27/21 3:43am]
[Edited 2/27/21 3:45am]
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