inovio said:

Why is it that Whitney Houston Luther vandross Elton John, Prince, Michael Jackson...why don't they have the same amount of #1 hits, they've been out for much longer than she has.

You're comparing 2 different things. It's easier to get hits with streaming than when people had to buy a 45 or a 78. That's how Drake, Lil Wayne & Nicki Minaj has more Hot 100 pop hits than anyone else. Just like before Soundscan only 6 albums had debuted at #1, after Soundscan was used in chart criteria, debuting at #1 became commonplace. With streaming it's posible for all the songs on an album to chart in Billboard at one time. In the 45 era, only an actual single and its B-side could chart because it was based on sales as well as radio airplay. Not album tracks, even if they got radio airplay. Isn't She Lovely by Stevie Wonder never charted in the USA because it was never released as a single. But it's one of Stevie's most well known songs. In the case of Michael Jackson, Mariah released albums more often than him. After Thriller, he only released 4 albums, 5 if you count Victory by The Jacksons. That's a 27 year period until 2009. There's acts who never had a #1. Creedence Clearwater Revival had a lot of songs get to #2. Longevity doesn't really mean anything either. Grateful Dead had been around longer than any of the acts you named, but only had 1 Top 40 pop hit.

I do remember back in the day the controversy surrounding Mariah about how they would discount her singles to 0.99 at crucial times during the run of the release.

There were also tricks back in the day where they'd pull the single from stores so hopefully you'd buy the album. I think Chtrstina did that a couple times.

As for Adele last night, I could've sworn she was singing "Someone Like You" but I could be wrong. But like you said it's not uncommon to pre record for skits.

As for the blond, blue eyed stuff maybe I'm just too old to care anymore. Or it's too bland and will be forgotten eventually.

That's why I've gravitated more towards jazz in my old age.

The singing, especially from the females, is very impressive.

And the fusiony stuff that I take a liking too is played exceptionally well.

If they had a smidge of the recoginition that someone like Adele gets it would be major news.

MickyDolenz said:

CynicKill said:

inovio said:

Streaming should never be a part of any conversation the majors like Spotify have admitted that they don't know what they're doing they don't know how many sales there really is being generated they're counting way too much sometimes they're counting not enough I'm not going to waste my energy you can look that up so streaming is an inaccurate illegitimate way to track any kind of music sales and even royalties people have been underpaid for their royalties and some were overpaid this is all in public records you can find it on the internet. Furthermore companies like title which I think was owned by Jay z or whatever they found that specifically Beyonce album sales the numbers were being exaggerated and they went in and found out that a lot of fake information fake numbers were being reporting so I think the title was shut down or they were fined one of the big disgraces of the industry so there seems to be a correlation between the owners of music companies showing favoritism to their wives or their husbands or their friends because there were other artists whose numbers were inflated anybody can do anything on the internet [Edited 10/25/20 23:29pm]

The record labels faked stuff long before there was an internet. Payola was not used only to get songs played on the radio. It was also used to pay radio stations and sometimes stores that sold records to report to Billboard & Cashbox that a record was more popular or less popular than it really was. James Brown has said his label King would not report all of his sales because they did not want to pay him the royalties. James said that many of his records were more popular than his label reported and so did not chart as high as they would have. Motown would not report sales to the RIAA for the same reason. It's not a requirement to report to the RIAA to get gold & platinum certifications and they have to be paid for on top of that. There's also been controversy about the sales of the first Eagles Greatest Hits album. Some accuse their label of faking the numbers. Labels have also been accused of buying a lot of their own records to spike its chart position.

If you think the labels were honest before the internet, there's Milli Vanilli. Milli Vanilli was not the first or the last front act. They just happened to become the most popular because of Clive Davis. Russell Thomkins of The Stylistics said on the groups first 3 albums, he was the only one of the group members to sing on them. On some of the later 1960s. Supremes records, it was only Diana Ross on them with The Andantes who were Motown's house session background singers. In the 1960s, the Wrecking Crew played on a lot of albums by bands, because they could record faster than the band members, who might require a lot of takes which was expensive. They were not credited, so the public think its the band members playing. The mafia had its hands in the entertainment business. Berry Gordy was accused of having mob help to get all of those songs on the radio in the 1960s. He denied it. It was rumored that Sam Cooke was killed by the mob becuase he refused to give his publishing to them. It was said the girl he went to the hotel with was a mafia guy's girlfriend. The mafia was directly involved with the distribution companies that got the record into stores. Like if they did not get paid, or wanted to teach an artist or label a lesson, they would make sure that the records did not get to stores. So people could not find them to buy and could not become a hit.

MickyDolenz said:

inovio said:

Streaming should never be a part of any conversation the majors like Spotify have admitted that they don't know what they're doing they don't know how many sales there really is being generated they're counting way too much sometimes they're counting not enough I'm not going to waste my energy you can look that up so streaming is an inaccurate illegitimate way to track any kind of music sales and even royalties people have been underpaid for their royalties and some were overpaid this is all in public records you can find it on the internet. Furthermore companies like title which I think was owned by Jay z or whatever they found that specifically Beyonce album sales the numbers were being exaggerated and they went in and found out that a lot of fake information fake numbers were being reporting so I think the title was shut down or they were fined one of the big disgraces of the industry so there seems to be a correlation between the owners of music companies showing favoritism to their wives or their husbands or their friends because there were other artists whose numbers were inflated anybody can do anything on the internet [Edited 10/25/20 23:29pm]

The record labels faked stuff long before there was an internet. Payola was not used only to get songs played on the radio. It was also used to pay radio stations and sometimes stores that sold records to report to Billboard & Cashbox that a record was more popular or less popular than it really was. James Brown has said his label King would not report all of his sales because they did not want to pay him the royalties. James said that many of his records were more popular than his label reported and so did not chart as high as they would have. Motown would not report sales to the RIAA for the same reason. It's not a requirement to report to the RIAA to get gold & platinum certifications and they have to be paid for on top of that. There's also been controversy about the sales of the first Eagles Greatest Hits album. Some accuse their label of faking the numbers. Labels have also been accused of buying a lot of their own records to spike its chart position.

If you think the labels were honest before the internet, there's Milli Vanilli. Milli Vanilli was not the first or the last front act. They just happened to become the most popular because of Clive Davis. Russell Thomkins of The Stylistics said on the groups first 3 albums, he was the only one of the group members to sing on them. On some of the later 1960s. Supremes records, it was only Diana Ross on them with The Andantes who were Motown's house session background singers. In the 1960s, the Wrecking Crew played on a lot of albums by bands, because they could record faster than the band members, who might require a lot of takes which was expensive. They were not credited, so the public think its the band members playing. The mafia had its hands in the entertainment business. Berry Gordy was accused of having mob help to get all of those songs on the radio in the 1960s. He denied it. It was rumored that Sam Cooke was killed by the mob becuase he refused to give his publishing to them. It was said the girl he went to the hotel with was a mafia guy's girlfriend. The mafia was directly involved with the distribution companies that got the record into stores. Like if they did not get paid, or wanted to teach an artist or label a lesson, they would make sure that the records did not get to stores. So people could not find them to buy and could not become a hit.

I'm truly surprised Martin Scorcese hasn't gotten his hands on all this.

Imagine the movie that would be.

CynicKill said:

I'm truly surprised Martin Scorcese hasn't gotten his hands on all this.

Imagine the movie that would be.

I'm not sure what kind of movie you're talking about. But a year or 2 ago Fabrice Morvan said that there were plans for a Milli Vanilli biopic. Don't know if that is still in the works or not.

MickyDolenz said:

CynicKill said:

I'm truly surprised Martin Scorcese hasn't gotten his hands on all this.

Imagine the movie that would be.

I'm not sure what kind of movie you're talking about. But a year or 2 ago Fabrice Morvan said that there were plans for a Milli Vanilli biopic. Don't know if that is still in the works or not.

I was referring to all the shady behind-the-scenes stuff of the music business.

Remember that book "Hit Men" that came out a long time ago about the payola scandal?

I always felt he should adapt that.

CynicKill said:

I was referring to all the shady behind-the-scenes stuff of the music business.

Remember that book "Hit Men" that came out a long time ago about the payola scandal?

I always felt he should adapt that.

That'll happen after someone makes a movie about the stuff happening behind the movie & TV business since the beginning. Which is probably never. Especially in the current "cancel culture"/"Me Too" generation. Although in the movie The Five Heartbeats, the guy getting hung over the balcony was based on something that really happened to Jackie Wilson who was at the mob run label Brunswick. In more recent times. it's rumored Suge Knight did the same thing to Vanilla Ice. Vanilla Ice was not signed to Suge, but Suge was said to be trying to get money from Ice or his publishing. I'm not sure. The Five Heartbeats is not a real group, but the movie was based on things that really happened in the record business, such as a white group getting a bigger hit, getting more radio airplay, and selling more with the same song than a black singer/group who first released it. There's several music biopics that mention payola. I guess someone can make another historical fiction movie like The Five Heartbeats where no real person's name is mentioned, but base the characters on real people. Just like in Dreamgirls, there's a group called Campbell Connection, which are obviously The Jackson 5. The Dreams themselves are based on The Supremes.

Lip synching is part of the business, it comes with the territory, all pop stars lip synch on television. You want to hear them live, go to a concert. Although many of them, aren't live these days. As far as the industry and the tricks of the trade (payola, discounting records, big execs calling in favours ...etc). Billboard Magazine called Mariah Carey out back in 1997 or 1998, for discounting at Christmas time, to move the single " I Still Belive", up the charts. But she was not the only one. Everyone knows that Whitney Houston's 7 consecutive # 1 singles, were bought and paid for by Arista Records. It was not an organic happening. The Bodyguard Soundtrack was also on sale during the Chritmas week, when it became the first album of the soundscan era, to sell 1 million copies in a week. Then there is the calculation of the charts, the HOT 100 chart, changed from being 50% sales/ 50 % airplay, in the70/ 80s, to leaning more towards airplay by the mid 80s, making payola more viable. By the 90s it got to be 70 % airplay. This is when singles started to debut at #1 on the chart. Now days the charts have more to calculate, with the digital era. And the fact that single is king, so when an album is dropped, all the singles are as well. Then they try to compare these artists of today that have the top 5 singles, or a bunch in the top 10; with the Beatles. Its just not the same...The Beatles didn't release 5 singles at once.

Tontoman22 said:

Lip synching is part of the business, it comes with the territory, all pop stars lip synch on television. You want to hear them live, go to a concert.

In some of those old movie musicals, it wasn't the actor singing. It was vocals by a professional singer and the actor lip synced to them.

JoeBala said:

I Guess it’s your incentive to bash artist, huh. I don’t care for certain artists, but I don’t bash them. Dang dude go practice your guitar.

CynicKill said:

inovio said:

most of that I already know so it's irrelevant I don't understand the point of your post but anyway I wouldn't care regardless

This entire thread is irrelevant because nobody cares but you. The mainstream audience likes and supports these acts. Large crowds go to concerts of artists like Skrillex who pushes buttons and has a light show. It does not matter if music snobs like yourself is jealous that your so-called "real music by real musicians" is not more popular. All music is real. It's not that serious, music is supposed to be entertainment that makes people happy. If it does, then the artists have done their jobs.

CynicKill said:

inovio said:

JoeBala said:

I Guess it’s your incentive to bash artist, huh. I don’t care for certain artists, but I don’t bash them. Dang dude go practice your guitar.

you'll know when I'm bashing anybody I'm giving my constructive criticism from a musician standpoint so let me explain this to you from the perspective of a musician since you don't have any musical talent.