Superstition said:

Still confused about why someone would dance upon news of his death, then attend his memorial. Also, why lie about the accusers not previously having met? With the 2003 case, the Bashir documentary started that ball. It’s important to note that the alleged abuse happened after the documentary aired, which makes no sense. I would like to see a documentary by someone who is neutral. Taking these two at their word and branching out from that is disingenuous at best. [Edited 3/7/19 15:30pm]

this was something that bothered the shit out of me.

But believe me.. the film was a bit disturbing....and I'm not a body motion analyst... nor was the film linear....so many things could have in fact been filmed, then taken again.. "let's do this part again" etc. Plenty of cuts.

1) However back to the timeline. Why would they want to go to his memorial
2) If dancing happy cause of his death... that means she'd known about this for years and that there was never any "Oh I went through some ordeal and revealed this to my famil - now we're coping with it.

Who willfully ignores this for decades and then suddenly gets through this stuff from 2013?


these guys expected an Estate payout...didn't get one...and have legal fees.

Plus... the claiming that his career as a choreographer was ruined are kinda deceiving themselves - ignoring the fact that he may have burned his bridges with industry people by fucking around with his bosses significant others.. by fuckign around with the talent. Maybe they felt his work was old. I have no idea. But, I wish to remain a skeptic because A) it doesn't add up B) they may have taken acting lessons.. it's been 6 years since a denial. it's been 16 years since the trial.

As someone posted above.. there are also images of MJJ and LMP with the guy when he's not a child... and the statement made in the film that the two had never known or met each other doesn't ring true either.

I understand this can be viewed as fandom. But I also understand the dude was weird and alienated... whenever he drove, he'd take a bucket in order to shit in. Couldn't stop anywhere...

Imagine the pool of people you could trust. I think he was "aspergers" to hell and didn't trust anybody. With good reason.. also, he may have been inexperienced with his major religious upbringing and his incredible idealism of his mother. The two conflict in him when he's touring and all his siblings and father are fucking everything that moves in the same room with him sometimes.

Sooo... he was messed up. Also had to play at strip joints as a kid. No wonder he was friends with damaged hollywood.. Taylor, Carrie Fisher etc. It wasnt just the RX drugs.

ANyways.. I don't know. Time will tell on this. One of the guys these two named as an abuse victim went to twitter the other day to say something to the effect of "when I'm on my way out, I'll die with peace. the same can't be said for these two" who it's implied are lying.

Dunno man. I honestly feel like ignoring this stuff because it's a distraction.. but hell.. most of my favoritie musicians are gone these days, so I come here sometimes to chew the $#!+

2045RadicalMattZ said:

This thread is just as bad and inconclusive as the days after MJ died. So is the film that isn't a real documentary. Lay it to rest and let it turn to dust...

This thread is now...

RODSERLING said:

RODSERLING said:

The nude and porn magazines with pictures of boys that Police found in 1993 and 2003 in a vault of MJ s room, locked with a key are really disturbing. . Moreover, forensics revealed there was sperm on it. . It doesn't prove he molested children, but that does prove that he had sexual and physical attraction to young white boys. . I didn't knew about those books, even if I followed the trial in 2005 day after day. These books were in fact dismissed by the judge because there were not illegal, in the sense the nude boys on the photographs were not in a sexual encounter. . I bought the official explanation from MJ sites at the time that it was just one book with nude babies presented in an artful ways, while it was in fact 2 books and like twenty nudist magazines nudist from the 30s !

FREE2BME responded to this post pretty well, but I wanted to add that several security guards/maids at Neverland testified in the 2005 trial that they saw the accusers sneak porno mags in their backpacks, and also that they were caught sneaking into the wine celler and drinking while Michael was gone.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/world/guard-caught-jackson-accuser-and-brother-with-wine-202829.html

[Edited 3/7/19 23:24pm]

[Edited 3/7/19 23:25pm]

Free2BMe said:

RODSERLING said:

The nude and porn magazines with pictures of boys that Police found in 1993 and 2003 in a vault of MJ s room, locked with a key are really disturbing. . Moreover, forensics revealed there was sperm on it. . It doesn't prove he molested children, but that does prove that he had sexual and physical attraction to young white boys. . I didn't knew about those books, even if I followed the trial in 2005 day after day. These books were in fact dismissed by the judge because there were not illegal, in the sense the nude boys on the photographs were not in a sexual encounter. . I bought the official explanation from MJ sites at the time that it was just one book with nude babies presented in an artful ways, while it was in fact 2 books and like twenty nudist magazines nudist from the 30s !

1. What nude and porn books of boys locked in a safe? Sounds as if you have been talking to the tabloid whore, Dian Demon. There were NO porn books of boys. There were ADULT magazines of women and all of this was brought out at the trial which is perfectly LEGAL. You are lying and I see your agenda. 2, There was no forensic report of sperm on anything. AGAIN, you are a liar. What Mad Dog Sneddon did was to take an legal adult magazine of women and say Michael showed it to the Arvisso. The problem is that during the grand jury presentation, Sneddon allowed Gavin to handle magazine with No Gloves on, solely for the purpose of getting his fingerprints on it. This was brought up at the trial. Also, it was brought out that this magazine’s release date did not fit when Arvizo claimed he was Neverland. Mesearru destroyed the prosecution during this part of the trial. Your tabloid tactics won’t work. 3. Out of 10,000. Oops found in Michael’s library, only ONE was found that Sneddon tried to portray as something suspicious. An art book( still in the wrapper) from a fan( fan’s name on it. It was a book based on the book “ Lord of The Flies”. Can you imagine a real pedophile having 10,000 books and not a single one of child porn found. Nothing found on any computer or anything else. 60-70 officers tearing and ripping through Michael’s home and NOTHING found. Poor thing, you and others like you are so blatantly transparent with your AGENDA.

I havent seen the Documentary, and remain o p e n minded..

Just one thing though...

There are many articles out there citing Questionable Art books found in Neverland...

THis is a leaked police report that lists some of the Artists works that have been found..

Images by James Bigwood, Tom Bianchi and Wilhelm Von Gloeden are just some that were found..

Now if you take the time to view the works of those artists

with an open mind

I am sure you will agree they arent art works that can be easily appreciated when your sexual orientation leans towards the "traditional" for want of better terminology...

I will re iterate..I have not yet see the Documentry, Its showing here tomorrow night

but I WILL watch it, becasue I cant have an opinion until I have watched it..

I will say this though...

Years ago..when MJ was interviewd by Oprah, she asked him about Plastic Surgery RUmours..

He looked at her point blank and Lied in her face...

at that time...I felt very uneasy...

I still do..

He was so convincing, I almost believed that he had only had 2 nose jobs...

except there was a chin implant, eye lift, Eyeliner and lip tattoos glaringly obvious..

and still

I wanted to believe him....

[Edited 3/8/19 0:03am]

Free2BMe said:

RODSERLING said:

The nude and porn magazines with pictures of boys that Police found in 1993 and 2003 in a vault of MJ s room, locked with a key are really disturbing. . Moreover, forensics revealed there was sperm on it. . It doesn't prove he molested children, but that does prove that he had sexual and physical attraction to young white boys. . I didn't knew about those books, even if I followed the trial in 2005 day after day. These books were in fact dismissed by the judge because there were not illegal, in the sense the nude boys on the photographs were not in a sexual encounter. . I bought the official explanation from MJ sites at the time that it was just one book with nude babies presented in an artful ways, while it was in fact 2 books and like twenty nudist magazines nudist from the 30s !

1. What nude and porn books of boys locked in a safe? Sounds as if you have been talking to the tabloid whore, Dian Demon. There were NO porn books of boys. There were ADULT magazines of women and all of this was brought out at the trial which is perfectly LEGAL. You are lying and I see your agenda. 2, There was no forensic report of sperm on anything. AGAIN, you are a liar. What Mad Dog Sneddon did was to take an legal adult magazine of women and say Michael showed it to the Arvisso. The problem is that during the grand jury presentation, Sneddon allowed Gavin to handle magazine with No Gloves on, solely for the purpose of getting his fingerprints on it. This was brought up at the trial. Also, it was brought out that this magazine’s release date did not fit when Arvizo claimed he was Neverland. Mesearru destroyed the prosecution during this part of the trial. Your tabloid tactics won’t work. 3. Out of 10,000. Oops found in Michael’s library, only ONE was found that Sneddon tried to portray as something suspicious. An art book( still in the wrapper) from a fan( fan’s name on it. It was a book based on the book “ Lord of The Flies”. Can you imagine a real pedophile having 10,000 books and not a single one of child porn found. Nothing found on any computer or anything else. 60-70 officers tearing and ripping through Michael’s home and NOTHING found. Poor thing, you and others like you are so blatantly transparent with your AGENDA.

This is the court document submitted by the prosecutors that lists the items found in Jackson's bedroom. I realise it is from mjfacts, a web-site that supporters dismiss, but it is simply a pdf of the court doucment - there is no agenda within that document other than the legal one of the prosecutors - https://www.mjfacts.com/r...aseemd.pdf

There is quite a lot of stuff listed regarding nude underage boys. None of which proves the abuse claims, none of which was illegal, but much of which indcates Jackson had a sexual interest in underage boys.

I couldnlt find a web-site supporting MJ that included this court document, but if anyone knows of one, please let me know, so I can read their take on it, so that I can view both sides of the argument.

RODSERLING said:

The nude boys book had nothing to do with lots of the flies thing...Did you see the pictures in this? Nude boys with genitals in some explicit positions. The other book had a written inscription of MJ in it such as " what beautiful expression they had on their faces". Faces of white boys nude full frontal ! . MJ never denied the owning of those books and the twenty The Nudist. . Brian Oxman said MJ bought them as an "historical investment"! Lol who can believe that? He bought them at the time 10.000 dollars each magazines, they worth now 50 dollars. . The Nudist were the only legal way to Have nude photographs of boys in the USA . And MJ kept them locked in a safe. In his room. And yes, fingerprints and sperm tests were done on those books and magazines and they were positive. . But since they were "legal" they were dismissed by the judge, and the accusators couldn't use these in court against MJ. That s why Sneddon tried his own way with the playboy lol . Again, that doesn't mean MJ molested children. But that does mean he clearly was obsessed with white boys naked, that he presumably masturbate in front of it, and that he knew well it shouldn't be discovered, hence he locked it in a safe. [Edited 3/8/19 1:25am]

first time i heard that, i hear so much shit i don't know what's wat, carey feldmen is flipping all over the place too.

yup, that's a big one, if he lied about that so baldfaced, what else might he lie about? It was n't good, everyone lies but when it's that obvious he should have just said None of your business or something if he didn't want to say. Poor mike, and I feel bad for the kids, which reminds me, no one ever, ever suggests that he did anything wierd with his kids which really weren't his to begin with.

Lovejunky said:

Free2BMe said:

RODSERLING said: 1. What nude and porn books of boys locked in a safe? Sounds as if you have been talking to the tabloid whore, Dian Demon. There were NO porn books of boys. There were ADULT magazines of women and all of this was brought out at the trial which is perfectly LEGAL. You are lying and I see your agenda. 2, There was no forensic report of sperm on anything. AGAIN, you are a liar. What Mad Dog Sneddon did was to take an legal adult magazine of women and say Michael showed it to the Arvisso. The problem is that during the grand jury presentation, Sneddon allowed Gavin to handle magazine with No Gloves on, solely for the purpose of getting his fingerprints on it. This was brought up at the trial. Also, it was brought out that this magazine’s release date did not fit when Arvizo claimed he was Neverland. Mesearru destroyed the prosecution during this part of the trial. Your tabloid tactics won’t work. 3. Out of 10,000. Oops found in Michael’s library, only ONE was found that Sneddon tried to portray as something suspicious. An art book( still in the wrapper) from a fan( fan’s name on it. It was a book based on the book “ Lord of The Flies”. Can you imagine a real pedophile having 10,000 books and not a single one of child porn found. Nothing found on any computer or anything else. 60-70 officers tearing and ripping through Michael’s home and NOTHING found. Poor thing, you and others like you are so blatantly transparent with your AGENDA.

I havent seen the Documentary, and remain o p e n minded..

Just one thing though...

There are many articles out there citing Questionable Art books found in Neverland...

THis is a leaked police report that lists some of the Artists works that have been found..

Images by James Bigwood, Tom Bianchi and Wilhelm Von Gloeden are just some that were found..

Now if you take the time to view the works of those artists

with an open mind

I am sure you will agree they arent art works that can be easily appreciated when your sexual orientation leans towards the "traditional" for want of better terminology...

I will re iterate..I have not yet see the Documentry, Its showing here tomorrow night

but I WILL watch it, becasue I cant have an opinion until I have watched it..

I will say this though...

Years ago..when MJ was interviewd by Oprah, she asked him about Plastic Surgery RUmours..

He looked at her point blank and Lied in her face...

at that time...I felt very uneasy...

I still do..

He was so convincing, I almost believed that he had only had 2 nose jobs...

except there was a chin implant, eye lift, Eyeliner and lip tattoos glaringly obvious..

and still

I wanted to believe him....

[Edited 3/8/19 0:03am]

didn't he have some s and m books and animal mutilation mags too? was any of that true?

Free2BMe said:

RODSERLING said:

The nude and porn magazines with pictures of boys that Police found in 1993 and 2003 in a vault of MJ s room, locked with a key are really disturbing. . Moreover, forensics revealed there was sperm on it. . It doesn't prove he molested children, but that does prove that he had sexual and physical attraction to young white boys. . I didn't knew about those books, even if I followed the trial in 2005 day after day. These books were in fact dismissed by the judge because there were not illegal, in the sense the nude boys on the photographs were not in a sexual encounter. . I bought the official explanation from MJ sites at the time that it was just one book with nude babies presented in an artful ways, while it was in fact 2 books and like twenty nudist magazines nudist from the 30s !

1. What nude and porn books of boys locked in a safe? Sounds as if you have been talking to the tabloid whore, Dian Demon. There were NO porn books of boys. There were ADULT magazines of women and all of this was brought out at the trial which is perfectly LEGAL. You are lying and I see your agenda. 2, There was no forensic report of sperm on anything. AGAIN, you are a liar. What Mad Dog Sneddon did was to take an legal adult magazine of women and say Michael showed it to the Arvisso. The problem is that during the grand jury presentation, Sneddon allowed Gavin to handle magazine with No Gloves on, solely for the purpose of getting his fingerprints on it. This was brought up at the trial. Also, it was brought out that this magazine’s release date did not fit when Arvizo claimed he was Neverland. Mesearru destroyed the prosecution during this part of the trial. Your tabloid tactics won’t work. 3. Out of 10,000. Oops found in Michael’s library, only ONE was found that Sneddon tried to portray as something suspicious. An art book( still in the wrapper) from a fan( fan’s name on it. It was a book based on the book “ Lord of The Flies”. Can you imagine a real pedophile having 10,000 books and not a single one of child porn found. Nothing found on any computer or anything else. 60-70 officers tearing and ripping through Michael’s home and NOTHING found. Poor thing, you and others like you are so blatantly transparent with your AGENDA.

RODSERLING said:

The nude boys book had nothing to do with lots of the flies thing...Did you see the pictures in this? Nude boys with genitals in some explicit positions. The other book had a written inscription of MJ in it such as " what beautiful expression they had on their faces". Faces of white boys nude full frontal ! . MJ never denied the owning of those books and the twenty The Nudist. . Brian Oxman said MJ bought them as an "historical investment"! Lol who can believe that? He bought them at the time 10.000 dollars each magazines, they worth now 50 dollars. . The Nudist were the only legal way to Have nude photographs of boys in the USA . And MJ kept them locked in a safe. In his room. And yes, fingerprints and sperm tests were done on those books and magazines and they were positive. . But since they were "legal" they were dismissed by the judge, and the accusators couldn't use these in court against MJ. That s why Sneddon tried his own way with the playboy lol . Again, that doesn't mean MJ molested children. But that does mean he clearly was obsessed with white boys naked, that he presumably masturbate in front of it, and that he knew well it shouldn't be discovered, hence he locked it in a safe. [Edited 3/8/19 1:25am]

That's the big one for me. Is there a defence for it?

PeteSilas said:

PeteSilas said:

didn't he have some s and m books and animal mutilation mags too? was any of that true?

Free2BMe said:

RODSERLING said: 1. What nude and porn books of boys locked in a safe? Sounds as if you have been talking to the tabloid whore, Dian Demon. There were NO porn books of boys. There were ADULT magazines of women and all of this was brought out at the trial which is perfectly LEGAL. You are lying and I see your agenda. 2, There was no forensic report of sperm on anything. AGAIN, you are a liar. What Mad Dog Sneddon did was to take an legal adult magazine of women and say Michael showed it to the Arvisso. The problem is that during the grand jury presentation, Sneddon allowed Gavin to handle magazine with No Gloves on, solely for the purpose of getting his fingerprints on it. This was brought up at the trial. Also, it was brought out that this magazine’s release date did not fit when Arvizo claimed he was Neverland. Mesearru destroyed the prosecution during this part of the trial. Your tabloid tactics won’t work. 3. Out of 10,000. Oops found in Michael’s library, only ONE was found that Sneddon tried to portray as something suspicious. An art book( still in the wrapper) from a fan( fan’s name on it. It was a book based on the book “ Lord of The Flies”. Can you imagine a real pedophile having 10,000 books and not a single one of child porn found. Nothing found on any computer or anything else. 60-70 officers tearing and ripping through Michael’s home and NOTHING found. Poor thing, you and others like you are so blatantly transparent with your AGENDA.

See my post above for a link to the court document which details the items found, and where they were found. It's a legal document filed by the prosecutors, so it is very credible.

RichardS said:

PeteSilas said:

didn't he have some s and m books and animal mutilation mags too? was any of that true?

See my post above for a link to the court document which details the items found, and where they were found. It's a legal document filed by the prosecutors, so it is very credible.

makes him sound gay too, wonder what the justification was for not allowing that, it would have been devestating. and there were images found on comps of women too.

RODSERLING said:

MJ also owned a collection of VHS of the 3rd Reich era. Some shit you can't even see on documentary and that were sold like 50.000 dollars on the underground market. . He was in deep shit with the TDCAU and the History promo scandal. It cost him it's airplay on MTV,until his death. Even YRMW wasn't much played on MTV, it stayed only 2 weeks on the top 20...

I have no issue with MJ owning every fucking mental video and book on the planet, he had all the money and bought everything. It's the in a locked cabinet by his bed stuff that disturbs me.

jaawwnn said:

RODSERLING said:

MJ also owned a collection of VHS of the 3rd Reich era. Some shit you can't even see on documentary and that were sold like 50.000 dollars on the underground market. . He was in deep shit with the TDCAU and the History promo scandal. It cost him it's airplay on MTV,until his death. Even YRMW wasn't much played on MTV, it stayed only 2 weeks on the top 20...

I have no issue with MJ owning every fucking mental video and book on the planet, he had all the money and bought everything. It's the in a locked cabinet by his bed stuff that disturbs me.

if that link was true, he had some wierd shit, who wants little boys on grown mens bodies? anyway, i was thinking, jimmy said that mike had all these secret rooms, they should take him in there and find them if it's true.

PeteSilas said:

jaawwnn said:

I have no issue with MJ owning every fucking mental video and book on the planet, he had all the money and bought everything. It's the in a locked cabinet by his bed stuff that disturbs me.

if that link was true, he had some wierd shit, who wants little boys on grown mens bodies? anyway, i was thinking, jimmy said that mike had all these secret rooms, they should take him in there and find them if it's true.

Well the prosecution also tried to make the case that Michael Jackson kept pictures of himself with topless young boys which turned out to be a photoshoot with his nephews that was in magazines, so take it all with a pinch of salt.

[Edited 3/8/19 2:18am]

In related news:

Iconic ‘Simpsons’ episode featuring Michael Jackson to be pulled

https://www.businessinsid...ed-2019-3/

[Edited 3/8/19 2:21am]

A lot of interesting conversation in this thread about some "questionable" materials found during the search of MJ's home leads to even more interesting findings dating back long before what ultimately happened in '93 and beyond. If you have time, hell, you spent 4 hours on a "film", take some moments to take in this information. There are many familiar names here. Many of them are beginning to resurface now. It goes alot deeper than some allegations. Money is the root...well we know the rest.

https://vindicatemj.wordp...my-career/

scorp84 said:

A lot of interesting conversation in this thread about some "questionable" materials found during the search of MJ's home leads to even more interesting findings dating back long before what ultimately happened in '93 and beyond. If you have time, hell, you spent 4 hours on a "film", take some moments to take in this information. There are many familiar names here. Many of them are beginning to resurface now. It goes alot deeper than some allegations. Money is the root...well we know the rest.

https://vindicatemj.wordp...my-career/

Can you point me to the page on that site where they discuss the materials found by the search of Neverland, as detailed in the court document. Thanks.

PeteSilas said:

jaawwnn said:

RODSERLING said:

jaawwnn said:

Well the prosecution also tried to make the case that Michael Jackson kept pictures of himself with topless young boys which turned out to be a photoshoot with his nephews that was in magazines, so take it all with a pinch of salt.

[Edited 3/8/19 2:18am]

Yes, it was the photoshoot of WHY for the music video. But once again the judge forbidden the accusators to use the nude boys book, so it s understandable they tried everything they could to show that MJ had an habit of unhealthy behaviour with young boys. . Frankly, MJ had huge luck the judge didn't retain the nude magazines and books. MJ would have been crucified. Spending hundred of thousands dollars on nude boys pictures, masturbating on it, and locking bit in a safe in his bedroom...He would have been literally crucified in court and would still be in jail as of now. .

Assuming there is no other explanation, and i'm all ears for one, I agree.

RODSERLING said:

PeteSilas said:

if that link was true, he had some wierd shit, who wants little boys on grown mens bodies? anyway, i was thinking, jimmy said that mike had all these secret rooms, they should take him in there and find them if it's true.

The secret rooms were proved, but that doesn't mean they were molested. But Arvizo said MJ used to walk in Neverland with a can of Coca in front of the kids, while in fact it was coca + vodka. . I didn't believe it back in 2005, but the This is it trial in 2011 revealed that MJ used to do that for years, even in plane. . That means that MJ used to walk with children inhibited with a cocktail of alcohol and drug.

You really are trying too hard, you sound like you are trying to convince others of things already disproven and not questioning of things ie sh!t-stirring.

Are you joking, the guy put his alcohol in coke cans becuase he didn't want to promote drinking of alcohol to kids. The man was old enough like billions of others that drink alcohol, dont try twist things thatis what Gavin tried in court and failed.

The books he had never had any kids posed in sexual positions at all, they were books sent to him by fans. You are reading files from radar which are doctored files that were originally published by the FBI.

You have to be naive to think he wouldn't of been charged if he was in posession of anything illegal, yet he had every computer he owned checked along with every room in 3/4 properties and they found nothing. Stop shi!tstirring you're sounding worse than the enquirer.

kremlinshadow said:

RODSERLING said:

PeteSilas said: The secret rooms were proved, but that doesn't mean they were molested. But Arvizo said MJ used to walk in Neverland with a can of Coca in front of the kids, while in fact it was coca + vodka. . I didn't believe it back in 2005, but the This is it trial in 2011 revealed that MJ used to do that for years, even in plane. . That means that MJ used to walk with children inhibited with a cocktail of alcohol and drug.

You really are trying too hard, you sound like you are trying to convince others of things already disproven and not questioning of things ie sh!t-stirring.

Are you joking, the guy put his alcohol in coke cans becuase he didn't want to promote drinking of alcohol to kids. The man was old enough like billions of others that drink alcohol, dont try twist things thatis what Gavin tried in court and failed.

The books he had never had any kids posed in sexual positions at all, they were books sent to him by fans. You are reading files from radar which are doctored files that were originally published by the FBI.

You have to be naive to think he wouldn't of been charged if he was in posession of anything illegal, yet he had every computer he owned checked along with every room in 3/4 properties and they found nothing. Stop shi!tstirring you're sounding worse than the enquirer.

Which files are doctored? Please provide evidence of this e.g. links to the original files, or other evidence that they were doctored. Otherwise you are also sounding worse than the enquirer.