Free2BMe said:

RichardS said:

I can accept that you believe the accusations to be false and I understand why. But to then accuse them of having pedophilic fantasies about what they wished happened, and to accuse Dan Reed of promoting child porn and NAMBLA doctrine - I find those accusations disturbing and disgusting and dangerous.

I don’t just believe the accusations are false, I KNOW they are false. I accuse Robson and Safechuck of pedophilic FANTASIES, because that’s what they are-FANTASIES. Do you actually think I would be saying that, if I didn’t have proof? These two scam artists have never been abused by Michael Jackson. The Graphic SCRIPT that they are using is from a man who used it in his book, Victor Guitterez. His book promoted the doctrine of NAMBLA, man/boy sex, ROBson, Safechuck and Reed know that what they are spewing is a lie; yet, they think people are stupid enough to fall for it. SOME people are stupid and gullible enough to fall for this shit, because they want it to be true. I am going to repeat what I have said previously,Robson, Safechuck and Reed are promoting child porn and pedophilic FANTASIES. What would you call something that you KNOW is not real? Any intelligent person would call it fiction or a FANTASY. Btw, you know what I find disgusting, disturbing and dangerous, people who are so willing to give these extortionists/scam artist a pass without investigating them or even trying to look at the FACTS. Michael supporters and defenders are not just some group of fans throwing out blind loyalty. We have the facts to back up everything we are saying; unlike Wade Robson, James Safechuck and Dan Reed. They ASSumed that this crap 💩 they are spewing would go unchallenged. They ASSumed wrong. [Edited 3/4/19 3:19am]

There's a difference - a huge difference - between lies and fantasies that they wish had happened. Do you have proof that they wish that the abuse had taken place? (That's what you claimed in a previous post). Because without proof of that, an intelligent person would not claim it.

Free2BMe said:

jaawwnn said:

Get a grip Free2BeMe. You're being that Michael Jackson fan.

Oh you mean THAT fan who has facts to back up what is being asserted. Yes, I am THAT fan, and damn proud of it. Btw, and there are many, many, many more, just like me. [Edited 3/4/19 3:23am]

No. You're that fan who accuses others of being porn directors and NAMBLA advocates and people having pedophantasies, which they wished happened to them. That makes you look like a loon and an idiot. That makes all of us look like loons and idiots. Hit them with facts, not bullshit assumptions that make you look like an overzeleaous fool and ultimately hurts your (and our) case. And I say that as an MJ fan.

RichardS said:

PatrickS77 said:

Free2BMe said:

RichardS said:

There's a difference - a huge difference - between lies and fantasies that they wish had happened. Do you have proof that they wish that the abuse had taken place? (That's what you claimed in a previous post). Because without proof of that, an intelligent person would not claim it.

Yes, I know the difference between a lie and a fantasy. Wade Robson and James Safechuck are LIARS. They know they weren’t abused by Michael. Thus, since they are lying, it must be a FANTASY. A pedophilic fantasy of what they WANTED or WISHED to have happened. Use your deductive reasoning skills. What would you call a graphic, pedophilic narration that has NO basis in truth. An intelligent person would call that totally made up fabrication a LIE and a FANTASY.

That makes no sense from a logical perspective. A lie for the purposes of monetary gain is clearly not the same thing as a fantasy that one wishes had happened. That's obvious.

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Free2BMe said:

PatrickS77 said:

Free2BMe said:

jaawwnn said:

Get a grip Free2BeMe. You're being that Michael Jackson fan.

Oh you mean THAT fan who has facts to back up what is being asserted. Yes, I am THAT fan, and damn proud of it. Btw, and there are many, many, many more, just like me. [Edited 3/4/19 3:23am]

No. You're that fan who accuses others of being porn directors and NAMBLA advocates and people having pedophantasies, which they wished happened to them. That makes you look like a loon and an idiot. That makes all of us look like loons and idiots. Hit them with facts, not bullshit assumptions that make you look like an overzeleaous fool and ultimately hurts your (and our) case. And I say that as an MJ fan.

Speak for YOURSELF. I defend Michael in my own way. You don’t speak for all fans. Hurts OUR case. Bullshit, it is people like you, who hurt our case. I am going to make myself explicitly clear, I consider Dan Reed a promoter of “child porn” and pedophilic fantasies. I don’t give a damn if you agree or not. That’s your prerogative. I don’t tell you how to defend Michael and you sure as hell cant tell me. You are one of those so-called “objective” fans who make me nauseous. What facts have your u hit the haters with? Probably the same ones that I have. Therefore, I don’t know what you are whining about. I AM passionate in my defense of Michael. I don’t have time to be worrying about hurting some haters’ feelings. I’ll let you soothe their bruised ego. I will also let you defend Dan Reed and NAMBLA enthusiast, Victor Guitterez. If this makes you happy, go for it. Just don’t have the audacity to think that you can tell another MJ fan how to defend him. I don’t know you and you don’t know me, stay in YOUR lane and things will be just fine. Finally, it is fans like you, who give haters a loophole to denigrate Michael.

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

The man has paid off accusers and been charged and gone to court for multiple allegations. How blind must someone be?

Why do we always have to go over the same shit? Paying someone to drop a civil claim is not an admission of guilt. There were reasons for why those 2 have been paid. Those reasons have been talked about in this thread. It also wasn't paid with MJ's money, so even less reason for him to object. You accuse us of being blind, but you are oblivious to the fact that there were parents, who, rather than see the molestor of their child go to jail, took the money and said "Oops, our bad. Have a nice life. We're out." to law enforcement, who tried to put the "child molestor" behind bars. He's been charged once and found not guilty. He's been investigated twice, but nothing came up in the first investagion and what they came up with in the second was ludicrous. So what does that tell you?? Are YOU blind?

Free2BMe said:

PatrickS77 said:

No. You're that fan who accuses others of being porn directors and NAMBLA advocates and people having pedophantasies, which they wished happened to them. That makes you look like a loon and an idiot. That makes all of us look like loons and idiots. Hit them with facts, not bullshit assumptions that make you look like an overzeleaous fool and ultimately hurts your (and our) case. And I say that as an MJ fan.

Speak for YOURSELF. I defend Michael in my own way. You don’t speak for all fans. Hurts OUR case. Bullshit, it is people like you, who hurt our case. I am going to make myself explicitly clear, I consider Dan Reed a promoter of “child porn” and pedophilic fantasies. I don’t give a damn if you agree or not. That’s your prerogative. I don’t tell you how to defend Michael and you sure as hell cant tell me. You are one of those so-called “objective” fans who make me nauseous. What facts have your u hit the haters with? Probably the same ones that I have. Therefore, I don’t know what you are whining about. I AM passionate in my defense of Michael. I don’t have time to be worrying about hurting some haters’ feelings. I’ll let you soothe their bruised ego. I will also let you defend Dan Reed and NAMBLA enthusiast, Victor Guitterez. If this makes you happy, go for it. Just don’t have the audacity to think that you can tell another MJ fan how to defend him. I don’t know you and you don’t know me, stay in YOUR lane and things will be just fine. Finally, it is fans like you, who give haters a loophole to denigrate Michael.

And you're sinking the ship even further, lashing out at everyone and everything and then you wonder why everyone thinks "we're" crazy.

[Edited 3/4/19 5:29am]

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

Free2BMe said:

Speak for YOURSELF. I defend Michael in my own way. You don’t speak for all fans. Hurts OUR case. Bullshit, it is people like you, who hurt our case. I am going to make myself explicitly clear, I consider Dan Reed a promoter of “child porn” and pedophilic fantasies. I don’t give a damn if you agree or not. That’s your prerogative. I don’t tell you how to defend Michael and you sure as hell cant tell me. You are one of those so-called “objective” fans who make me nauseous. What facts have your u hit the haters with? Probably the same ones that I have. Therefore, I don’t know what you are whining about. I AM passionate in my defense of Michael. I don’t have time to be worrying about hurting some haters’ feelings. I’ll let you soothe their bruised ego. I will also let you defend Dan Reed and NAMBLA enthusiast, Victor Guitterez. If this makes you happy, go for it. Just don’t have the audacity to think that you can tell another MJ fan how to defend him. I don’t know you and you don’t know me, stay in YOUR lane and things will be just fine. Finally, it is fans like you, who give haters a loophole to denigrate Michael.

Yup. You sound like a typical deranged fan.

Exactly. And sadly and unnessesary so.

Free2BMe said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

The man has paid off accusers and been charged and gone to court for multiple allegations. How blind must someone be?

It’s obvious that you serve too stupid to look at facts. Guillible and weak-minded people like you are what is wrong with this world.

MotownSubdivision said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

The man has paid off accusers and been charged and gone to court for multiple allegations. How blind must someone be?

Bruh I know Free is going overboard but you can't point the finger and call someone else blind when you're in a topic that discusses and points out information that contradicts the very things you asserted in this post. It's been almost 26 years since the first allegation and the man has been subject to an extensive witch hunt almost consistently till the day he died with no evidence found to back up people's accusations. Almost 3 decades and the closest they got to any sort of credible proof were photography books that contained photos of naked children. This documentary was put together by people who have proven to be liars one way or the other. They asserted initially that MJ did nothing to them then turned around and suddenly remembered that he did, took their accusations to court and had their case thumbed down without hesitation (this was after MJ's death, mind you). Now here they are at the forefront of a so-called documentary where only their stories are being told with nobody to counter them being featured on top of them apparently changing their story of what happened for the umpteenth time. There is literally far more evidence of Michael's innocence than there is of the crimes he's been accused of. It's pretty much common sense at this point but because you aren't a fan, that's enough for you to assume the absolute worst with no room to ponder otherwise.

Dan Reed hasn't been proven to be a liar - you can argue he's fallen victim to liars, but he has a very solid track record of documentary-making, so it would be a aberration in his career to have gone so far wrong on this one.

There's always a sliding scale on these things because regardless of how much we know, we can never know everything - anyone who claims otherwise is fooling themselves more than anyone else.

E.g. R Kelly and Harvery Weinstein have yet to be found guilty, but there's a very high percentage that they are guilty, based on what we know. Woody Allen, on the other hand, imho, is very likely innocent. There's a lot of middle ground in between those cases, and for me, MJ is somewhere in the middle of it, simply because some of the behaviour he has actually admitted to doesn't sit well with me. For me, there is some doubt, but not enough to believe he's guilty of anything other than some inappropriate and irresponsible behaviour.

RichardS said:

but not enough to believe he's guilty of anything other than some inappropriate and irresponsible behaviour.

That's what it boils down to and that's why some people, who are too lazy to look at all the facts and are narrow minded and arrogant in their believe that only their way to be is the right way and people, who just never liked him, again based on their believe how somebody should be, easily fall into the trap of believing those liars. Including that mockumentary director.

RichardS said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said:

The man has paid off accusers and been charged and gone to court for multiple allegations. How blind must someone be?

Bruh I know Free is going overboard but you can't point the finger and call someone else blind when you're in a topic that discusses and points out information that contradicts the very things you asserted in this post.

It's been almost 26 years since the first allegation and the man has been subject to an extensive witch hunt almost consistently till the day he died with no evidence found to back up people's accusations. Almost 3 decades and the closest they got to any sort of credible proof were photography books that contained photos of naked children.

This documentary was put together by people who have proven to be liars one way or the other. They asserted initially that MJ did nothing to them then turned around and suddenly remembered that he did, took their accusations to court and had their case thumbed down without hesitation (this was after MJ's death, mind you). Now here they are at the forefront of a so-called documentary where only their stories are being told with nobody to counter them being featured on top of them apparently changing their story of what happened for the umpteenth time.

There is literally far more evidence of Michael's innocence than there is of the crimes he's been accused of. It's pretty much common sense at this point but because you aren't a fan, that's enough for you to assume the absolute worst with no room to ponder otherwise.

I've believed that MJ acted inappropriately with kids for a long time. But . . . anyone watching Leaving Neverland needs to keep critical facts in mind for context:

1. It is one-sided. Only the gentlemen and their families are featured.

2. There are no corroborating witnesses or direct evidence provided other than the word of the families and the accusers. The various notes and gifts cause concern, but are not evidence of crimes, only close (but highly questionable) relationships. These types of documentaries usually feature unbiased third party witnesses, investigators, lawyers or law enforcement officials, or direct evidence of wrongdoing. None of that was featured in part 1.

3. These accusers have credibility issues. They apparently both testified under oath or gave statements as adults that MJ never assaulted them. That can't be ignored.

Subjectively, part 1 of this doc confirms my feelings about MJ. But what I feel doesn't necessarily mean I can take it as undisputed fact.

And the format of this doc so far gives me pause.

[Edited 3/4/19 13:22pm]

Free2BMe said:

MoBettaBliss said:

absolutely vile... you really are a piece of work

Supporters of these two lying POS are the vile ones. I do not support FAKE victims. I support REAL victims and these perjurers and extortionists are NOT real victims. They have changed their story 5 times. They are now changing it again, during their publicity campaign. Don’t act so shocked that people who KNOW the truth are repulsed by these pieces of trash. Again, they know that what they are saying doesn’t have a shred of truth in it. IMO, they are fantasizing about what they WISHED or WANTED to happen to them-pedophilic FANTASIES of two GROWN men with a third grown man filming their sick and disgusting Fantasies.

you actually said

"What I find really disgusting is that these pieces of trash have the audacity to think that they are so attractive e or desireable, that they would be ones chosen to a use, when other children were there at the same time."

i've been a member of this site for nearly 17 years ... i think that just about takes the cake as the must deranged thing i've ever seen written here

you need professional help... seriously

MoBettaBliss said:

Number23 said:

MoBettaBliss said:

you actually said

"What I find really disgusting is that these pieces of trash have the audacity to think that they are so attractive e or desireable, that they would be ones chosen to a use, when other children were there at the same time."

i've been a member of this site for nearly 17 years ... i think that just about takes the cake as the must deranged thing i've ever seen written here

you need professional help... seriously

Aye it’s up there, defo. And that’s saying something for Prince.org. I’d ban the beast-defending deluded cunt.

that's pretty bad too, calling a fellow member a cunt and your idol a beast.

it's a come up, same for oprah, an opportunity by latching onto the biggest star the world has ever known. I'm a fan no matter what, the music is brilliant, the art was great, whether he did it or not, I'll still blast mj, i played the entirety of history just yesterday.

RichardS said:

MotownSubdivision said:

Ugot2shakesumthin said: Bruh I know Free is going overboard but you can't point the finger and call someone else blind when you're in a topic that discusses and points out information that contradicts the very things you asserted in this post. It's been almost 26 years since the first allegation and the man has been subject to an extensive witch hunt almost consistently till the day he died with no evidence found to back up people's accusations. Almost 3 decades and the closest they got to any sort of credible proof were photography books that contained photos of naked children. This documentary was put together by people who have proven to be liars one way or the other. They asserted initially that MJ did nothing to them then turned around and suddenly remembered that he did, took their accusations to court and had their case thumbed down without hesitation (this was after MJ's death, mind you). Now here they are at the forefront of a so-called documentary where only their stories are being told with nobody to counter them being featured on top of them apparently changing their story of what happened for the umpteenth time. There is literally far more evidence of Michael's innocence than there is of the crimes he's been accused of. It's pretty much common sense at this point but because you aren't a fan, that's enough for you to assume the absolute worst with no room to ponder otherwise.

Dan Reed hasn't been proven to be a liar - you can argue he's fallen victim to liars, but he has a very solid track record of documentary-making, so it would be a aberration in his career to have gone so far wrong on this one.

There's always a sliding scale on these things because regardless of how much we know, we can never know everything - anyone who claims otherwise is fooling themselves more than anyone else.

E.g. R Kelly and Harvery Weinstein have yet to be found guilty, but there's a very high percentage that they are guilty, based on what we know. Woody Allen, on the other hand, imho, is very likely innocent. There's a lot of middle ground in between those cases, and for me, MJ is somewhere in the middle of it, simply because some of the behaviour he has actually admitted to doesn't sit well with me. For me, there is some doubt, but not enough to believe he's guilty of anything other than some inappropriate and irresponsible behaviour.

PeteSilas said:

PatrickS77 said:

Free2BMe said:

jaawwnn said: Oh you mean THAT fan who has facts to back up what is being asserted. Yes, I am THAT fan, and damn proud of it. Btw, and there are many, many, many more, just like me. [Edited 3/4/19 3:23am]

No. You're that fan who accuses others of being porn directors and NAMBLA advocates and people having pedophantasies, which they wished happened to them. That makes you look like a loon and an idiot. That makes all of us look like loons and idiots. Hit them with facts, not bullshit assumptions that make you look like an overzeleaous fool and ultimately hurts your (and our) case. And I say that as an MJ fan.

I'm a MJ Fan too, jesus, I have a lot of MJ stuff, have his videos on DVD and I still love the man, he was just great and I'll never believe that he hurt a child, but there was a time when I had to distance myself from the fanbase, because of people like Free2BMe, because some people are just too much. We can defend Michael without making dumb assumptions.

Number23 said:

PeteSilas said:

that's pretty bad too, calling a fellow member a cunt and your idol a beast.

Lol, never dug MJ mate, quite clearly there was something very wrong with the fella. Great voice, great dancer, some great tunes but I couldn’t connect to it. And to me, a victim-blamer who speculated on a child’s attractiveness to paedophiles is the dictionary definition of a cunt.

you probably like my own brother, had a poster of michael on the wall and denies the shit, you love Mike.

fucking orca

ChocolateBox3121 said:

PeteSilas said:

MoBettaBliss said:

Free2BMe said:

MoBettaBliss said: Supporters of these two lying POS are the vile ones. I do not support FAKE victims. I support REAL victims and these perjurers and extortionists are NOT real victims. They have changed their story 5 times. They are now changing it again, during their publicity campaign. Don’t act so shocked that people who KNOW the truth are repulsed by these pieces of trash. Again, they know that what they are saying doesn’t have a shred of truth in it. IMO, they are fantasizing about what they WISHED or WANTED to happen to them-pedophilic FANTASIES of two GROWN men with a third grown man filming their sick and disgusting Fantasies.

you actually said

"What I find really disgusting is that these pieces of trash have the audacity to think that they are so attractive e or desireable, that they would be ones chosen to a use, when other children were there at the same time."

i've been a member of this site for nearly 17 years ... i think that just about takes the cake as the must deranged thing i've ever seen written here

you need professional help... seriously

Exactly! When I read that I was like: "What the fuck is he or she thinking? That the most "attractive ones get raped?" As if the person wanted to say: "Other kids there were prettier and none of them were victims." Holy shit. and then he or she calls others deranged...or other stuff

As Elizabeth Taylor said, "The Undisputed King of Pop, Rock, Soul, Rap, Country, Classical, Acid House and Bluegrass."

When I stopped being a MJ fan almost a decade ago, I knew this would happen. I knew something big would happen that would destroy the Jacksons. I was a huge, super dedicated fan and I remember going to one big MJ fan forum and, along with some other users (some are still there), insistently warn people regarding the junkie label the Jacksons were putting on MJ, and being expelled because of it. I still remember one Moderator who mocked me when I created another account and kept telling them how things would turn out. Some other users- we were sort of a group- were expelled as well. It was all written on the wall.

25th of June 2009 Michael dies due to a doctor's incompetence but the family goes after the ones with the money instead, AEG. To have an argument against the company, they created an image of a debilitated, raging drug addict who put his destiny on the hands of a greedy (the irony...) company who, knowing of his problems, still contract him and overwork him. This leads to a horrible, mediatic civil case between the most famous musical family in American history and a billion-dollar, all-powerful company. But it was Michael Jackson, not AEG, who was on trial. If the family had to paint him as a junkie to have an argument, AEG had to full-out destroy his reputation to at least mitigate the indemnization. They did what they had to do to get out of a legal situation that would annihilate the company and everyone who worked in it. So Michael was dragged and thrown to the mud. And then, surprise!, the Robson allegations come up. When I finally decided to turn my back on MJ and the MJ fandom, I knew this would end like this. They drove people who were telling the truth about the family away and now? Now Michael Jackson's legacy will forever be destroyed. There is no coming back from this. On twitter all I see is fans turning on him. This is the final blow. Good luck to anyone (and it's a dwindling affair) still on the other side.

[Edited 3/4/19 14:28pm]